Kratom Kratom 101 - Useful stuff to know before first try?

[CmonYouShouldKnowBetter]

"and mitragynine induced lower lip retraction and antinociception in rats"

wtf is "lower lip retraction"!

 

[CmonYouShouldKnowBetter]

"and mitragynine induced lower lip retraction and antinociception in rats"

lol, on really high doses I've noticed my lips twitch in a very unusual manner.... weird


it had some unusual effects and was very strong without tolerance, but nothing like real opioids

when I stopped buying them there were also other pills that were absolutely RC opioids, both cheaper and stronger

they're still being sold as 7-OH but they aren't, from the vendor I was buying from

sad

even pure 7-OH is nowhere near as dangerous as real opioids

it's oddly a very powerful sedative and muscle relaxer, but still doesn't touch the lungs

if you have tolerance to other opioids, 7-OH feels weak

if you only have tolerance to kratom, it feels like a very strong hit of oxy but more of a sleeping pill.

interesting pseudo-opioid but not a great chemical of abuse

it also has zero of the mental euphoria that other kratom alkaloids like mit provides....

I have never had the opportunity to try legit 7oh isolate

 

[Snafu in the Void]

I have never had the opportunity to try legit 7oh isolate

7.5mg-15mg 7-OH + 4g kratom makes it truly feel like oxycodone, the opioid effects fade after about 90min and then it's 2-3 hours of a heavy sedation with pronounced and unique muscle relaxation. Total duration <5hr, similar to mit. Otherwise an unremarkable drug, not much euphoria at all without other kratom alkaloids on top.

there is a pretty big company now selling 14mg pills openly on their own website

they are legit and as far as I can tell only have 7-OH in them

there are smaller/cheaper pills going around which are laced with an RC

 

[CmonYouShouldKnowBetter]

7.5mg-15mg 7-OH + 4g kratom makes it truly feel like oxycodone, the opioid effects fade after about 90min and then it's 2-3 hours of a heavy sedation with pronounced and unique muscle relaxation. Total duration <5hr, similar to mit. Otherwise an unremarkable drug, not much euphoria at all without other kratom alkaloids on top.

there is a pretty big company now selling 14mg pills openly on their own website

they are legit and as far as I can tell only have 7-OH in them

there are smaller/cheaper pills going around which are laced with an RC

I cant wont do the big kratom companies. Not even going to start the unfair trade topic but basically fuck those guys, I grow speciosa and buy from my fam in Indonesia. This is liekly why ive never tried the isolates. But what RC are you talking about. Do we have evidence of this? I run 2 harm reduction forums (1 on kratom) and would be very grateful to have that info

 

[Mycophile]

I need to try some of this 7-OH stuff. Of course, I only VERY rarely use extracts because they kill your tolerance to plain leaf and also must be more addictive and I don't like kratom WD and don't want to find out what kratom EXTRACT wd is like. But used sparingly they are fun.

Not enough people are responding to my thread about kratom not working well for me though.

I don't want to go into all the details again, but unless, like today, I mix my plain leaf with extracts and other drugs like phenibut it seems like I can only get the mildest of effects whereas I used to get great euphoria all the time from every dose. And it is NOT about tolerance as I use kratom rarely enough that I don't have much.

Most experienced kratom users know how temperamental a drug it is, how re-dosing usually doesn't work, how it doesn't "play well" with most other drugs, etc. But have others here had it where kratom had worked great, then you stopped for a while and when you went back you couldn't get it to give you anything more than like 25% the euphoria it used to? And if it did happen to you, did you figure out how to get it back and, if so, how??

 

[CmonYouShouldKnowBetter]

I need to try some of this 7-OH stuff. Of course, I only VERY rarely use extracts because they kill your tolerance to plain leaf and also must be more addictive and I don't like kratom WD and don't want to find out what kratom EXTRACT wd is like. But used sparingly they are fun.

Not enough people are responding to my thread about kratom not working well for me though.

I don't want to go into all the details again, but unless, like today, I mix my plain leaf with extracts and other drugs like phenibut it seems like I can only get the mildest of effects whereas I used to get great euphoria all the time from every dose. And it is NOT about tolerance as I use kratom rarely enough that I don't have much.

Most experienced kratom users know how temperamental a drug it is, how re-dosing usually doesn't work, how it doesn't "play well" with most other drugs, etc. But have others here had it where kratom had worked great, then you stopped for a while and when you went back you couldn't get it to give you anything more than like 25% the euphoria it used to? And if it did happen to you, did you figure out how to get it back and, if so, how??

yes that happened to me. it never came back. Kratom is not the only compound ive had this issue with. Careful with that phenibut though, shit is neurotoxic as fuck

 

[Mycophile]

yes that happened to me. it never came back. Kratom is not the only compound ive had this issue with. Careful with that phenibut though, shit is neurotoxic as fuck

I'm careful with Phenibut. I do it at most like 2-3 times a month but really there's often months that go by where I don't do it at all or maybe once. It's really neurotoxic? Like, toxic to your brain and body? More than alcohol or other drugs? Cause I mean, it's a GABA drug that is actually prescribed in Russia for various reasons and the Russians know their drugs. I think in moderation it's fine and probably isn't necessarily worse for you than benzos which are also GABA drugs.

But as far as Kratom, it used to work for you and now it totally doesn't anymore? That fucking sucks. I'm sorry about that man. Now that gets me worried that it could happen to me, but the difference is that I do still get some effects from it, they're just not anywhere near as good as they used to be. Kratom is really weird. I'd like more explanations. You might be able to get it back by trying different potentiators. I'm going to try to make ultra low dose naltrexone from some pills I have. That's supposed to really potentiate it big time. I don't understand, why would Kratom just stop working for someone? And what other drugs has it happened for you with? I didn't think it was possible for drugs to just stop working for people.

 

[Salem_is_tired]

Remember it can be just as physically addictive as any other opiate. Ik this should be obvious, but there's a lot of false propaganda out there claiming it to be a "non-addictive alternative to opioids" which I unfortunately fell for (about 7-8 years ago) and led to a pretty bad addiction. Like with percs or oxi I knew they were addictive so I never took them more than once every couple weeks, whereas with kratom I started taking it daily. Started with just 1-2g/day which eventually led to 30+g/day, then harder opiates.

Of course, the last thing I want to do is, to underestimate kratom. I usually take big gaps between taking it for a few days (I originally got in in July, had a few tries and did not touch it for the rest of the summer, than had a few grams again in start of the fall, and than now).

 

[CmonYouShouldKnowBetter]

I'm careful with Phenibut. I do it at most like 2-3 times a month but really there's often months that go by where I don't do it at all or maybe once. It's really neurotoxic? Like, toxic to your brain and body? More than alcohol or other drugs? Cause I mean, it's a GABA drug that is actually prescribed in Russia for various reasons and the Russians know their drugs. I think in moderation it's fine and probably isn't necessarily worse for you than benzos which are also GABA drugs.

But as far as Kratom, it used to work for you and now it totally doesn't anymore? That fucking sucks. I'm sorry about that man. Now that gets me worried that it could happen to me, but the difference is that I do still get some effects from it, they're just not anywhere near as good as they used to be. Kratom is really weird. I'd like more explanations. You might be able to get it back by trying different potentiators. I'm going to try to make ultra low dose naltrexone from some pills I have. That's supposed to really potentiate it big time. I don't understand, why would Kratom just stop working for someone? And what other drugs has it happened for you with? I didn't think it was possible for drugs to just stop working for people.

Using naltrexone with an opioid is risky af.
Russians prescribing 25mg of phenibut is not the same as the dosages we take to get a buzz, gabaergic, or not.
Kratom stops working for some because of opioid downregulation.

 

[Mycophile]

Using naltrexone with an opioid is risky af.
Russians prescribing 25mg of phenibut is not the same as the dosages we take to get a buzz, gabaergic, or not.
Kratom stops working for some because of opioid downregulation.

It's NOT risky to take ULTRA LOW DOSE naltrexone with kratom. People who know how to do it say it works, and not only that, but people who take all sorts of stronger opioids mix them with ultra lose dose naltrexone in order to lower their tolerance to their opioid so they no longer need such high doses. It's done in the medical community for real. It's not risky so long as you are not dependent on kratom. If you aren't and you take ultra low dose naltrexone, then the worst thing that can happen is that you accidentally take too much and it blocks your high and you don't feel the effects of Kratom. The best case scenario it potentiates it MASSIVELY. All the risks of precipitated withdrawal come with taking naltrexone when you are dependent on kratom and only at high dose naltrexone (or sometimes low but not ULTRA low.) Where did you hear that it was so risky? Are you aware that at ultra low doses it potentiates it and that naltrexone behaves like an ENTIRELY DIFFERENT DRUG at low and ultra low doses than at full dose?

You are right that certain amounts that Russians take are much lower, but not 25mg. They usually do about 600mgs. I don't really think it's super dangerous to take a dose of Phenibut like every other weekend like I do. What is worse is mixing it with alcohol, which I admitedly do, but the Phenibut itself, yeah it's not the safest substance ever, but it's possible to take it sometimes and be ok.

And what exactly does "downregulation" mean when it comes to Kratom? Can there be any way to work around that problem and it get it to work again?

 

[Mycophile]

So no one has any ideas about how to get Kratom to work better if you are only getting minimal effects? Any thoughts on this idea about "down regulation" causing the problem and what could maybe be done about that? I mean surely there should be SOME way of getting it to have more effect again right?

 

[CmonYouShouldKnowBetter]

Lo

It's NOT risky to take ULTRA LOW DOSE naltrexone with kratom. People who know how to do it say it works, and not only that, but people who take all sorts of stronger opioids mix them with ultra lose dose naltrexone in order to lower their tolerance to their opioid so they no longer need such high doses. It's done in the medical community for real. It's not risky so long as you are not dependent on kratom. If you aren't and you take ultra low dose naltrexone, then the worst thing that can happen is that you accidentally take too much and it blocks your high and you don't feel the effects of Kratom. The best case scenario it potentiates it MASSIVELY. All the risks of precipitated withdrawal come with taking naltrexone when you are dependent on kratom and only at high dose naltrexone (or sometimes low but not ULTRA low.) Where did you hear that it was so risky? Are you aware that at ultra low doses it potentiates it and that naltrexone behaves like an ENTIRELY DIFFERENT DRUG at low and ultra low doses than at full dose?

You are right that certain amounts that Russians take are much lower, but not 25mg. They usually do about 600mgs. I don't really think it's super dangerous to take a dose of Phenibut like every other weekend like I do. What is worse is mixing it with alcohol, which I admitedly do, but the Phenibut itself, yeah it's not the safest substance ever, but it's possible to take it sometimes and be ok.

And what exactly does "downregulation" mean when it comes to Kratom? Can there be any way to work around that problem and it get it to work again?

You are 100% incorrect about "then the worst thing that can happen is that you accidentally take too much and it blocks your high and you don't feel the effects of Kratom". I was admitted to the ER by taking naltrexone on kratom. You seem very argumentative and your evidence is based on "people said so". Im just not interested in that type of discussion. Good luck with everything.

 

[Mycophile]

I love to hear this kind of viewpoint. Far too many folks out there in lala land (or just plain lying) about the safety profile of this "natural cure". Yesterday I had a guy in one of my forums go "dude - its a leaf off a fucking tree" as if poppy isnt a flower. And then we have these money moguel AKA fucks telling everyone it isnt an opioid. I followed that bullshit and landed myself in the ER with precip WD after taking 50mg naltrexone while on kratom. Kratom needs harm reduction just like any other drug

AHHH, so here it is. Yes, you will end up in precipitated wd if you take FULL dose 50mg naltrexone while dependent on ANY opioid.

There is NOT a risk if you take Ultra Low Dose naltrexone and you are NOT dependent on an opioid. There's also no risk if you take ULDN and you ARE fully dependent on an opioid, but the risk is that if the dose is actually too high without you knowing it.

Therefore, 1) make sure you are not dependent at all on kratom before you take ANY naltrexone preparation 2) then if the dose is too high and you take it before your kratom, worst case scenario it just blocks the kratom. The problem is that you could still have some kratom left in your system and not know it, so you really need to go long enough without. If, in fact, you get the dose right mixed with any opioid it should potentiate it and also eliminates much if not all the withdrawal if done properly. I've just still been too unsure of how to make ULDN from full dose, but I keep telling myself to give it a shot.

People are not aware of how differently naltrexone behaves at different doses.

Sorry you got precipitated WD. That's something you avoid by not mixing full dose naltrexone with opioid dependence.

 

[mauve]

What about kratom if you're physically dependent on benzos?

 

[Mycophile]

I've experienced major psychosis from kratom (in combination with other drugs, but some by itself, the alienated thoughts). Liver pains. Gallblader damage. Chills/fever. Chronic headaches. Serious dehydration. Lethargy. I could fucking go on man.... but those are the big ones.

I've also felt like chronic use of kratom really fucks with your neurochemistry in undocumented ways.

Oh and I have chronic kidney disease now. Maybe the alcohol idk.

Damn man, I'm sorry to hear about this.

How much were you actually taking and how frequently that this happened?

I've used it on and off for years, sometimes a few days a week, but often going months without, and I've gone a year or more without more than once. I've never experienced any serious negative side effects, so I'm going to attribute this to dosage and frequency. Too much of ALMOST anything is going to eventually cause problems.

 

[Mycophile]

Lo

You are 100% incorrect about "then the worst thing that can happen is that you accidentally take too much and it blocks your high and you don't feel the effects of Kratom". I was admitted to the ER by taking naltrexone on kratom. You seem very argumentative and your evidence is based on "people said so". Im just not interested in that type of discussion. Good luck with everything.

You seem to not be noticing the part where I said "IF YOU ARE NOT DEPENDENT ON KRATOM and that it HAS to be "ULTRA LOW dose" not 50mgs.

It's the dependency on the kratom with too high a dose of naltrexone that is a problem. But I am NOT dependent on kratom. So you go a week or however long without the kratom and THEN you take your "HOPEFULLY" ultra low dose preparation, and you must always be sure not to be dependent on any opioid when you take it, or else you must know FOR SURE that you have an ultra low dose preparation, which can actually be used to eliminate WD.

You seem equally argumentative in that you are unwilling to actually acknowledge what I'm truly saying or else you're lacking in reading comprehension. You said in your post that you took 50mg naltrexone. That is FULL dose. We are talking taking like 1,000 times less than that in a different scenario.

 

[Mycophile]

What about kratom if you're physically dependent on benzos?

That's no problem at all. I'm dependent on benzos.

 

[mauve]

That's no problem at all. I'm dependent on benzos.

Thanks

 

[Mycophile]

Has anyone here ever used Shilajit before or combined it with kratom? I only just heard about it before. It's some kind of unusual plant resin that can strongly potentiate a number of drugs, including LSD, and it seems to have health benefits on its own.

I'll probably get some but I'm not sure how I'd know if one source is better than another.

I've also heard people talk about proglumide as a potentiator, but that prescription only.

 

[DragonFly31]

Yesterday, I had a very bad experience with Kratom. I took 5 to 7 grams orally, and after an hour my heart felt like it was pounding in my chest, my head felt under strong tension and I almost lost consciousness.

I had to lie down to recover slightly, but basically had a hell of a time for the entire duration of the "high". There was no opioid-like enjoyment there...

After some research, it looks like I had a bad case of tachychardia.

Has anyone felt these effects before?