Dissociatives Jamshyd's Medicinal Ketamine Regimen! (V 1.5 - UPDATED 11-22-10)

[Psych0naut]

I've succesfully come off of a 6 month benzo addiction after having tapered down my dose with Librium, and quitting altogether(Lbrium and Risperidon) in combination with ketamine. I've tried to quit both without ketamine, but after a week the withdral effects where so harsh that I just couldn't handle it anymore, even though I really taperede my dose down very slowly, and was just at 5mg Librium a day at the moment I completely quit alltogether. The wd effects I had were derealisation, depersonalisation, tremor, rebound insomnia, shaking limbs, apathy and depression.

My second attempt, with ketamine, was indeed succesfull and without nearly any withdrawl effects at all! I read an article about a former opioid addict who used to do 100+mg morphine IV daily, and also had quit altogether using ketamine 5 days, once-daily. Because of a slightly more limited stock of ketamine and a high permanent tolerance to it, I used it by a slightly different scheme, but nearly the same. I used it 3 days on end, skipped a day and took the final big dose on the fifth day. I did not get any wd effects in the week after that, nor any in the periods after that, except for some minor sleeping difficulties, but that was just some of the mental part too. All in all, I really have to vow for ketamine's amazing properties at quitting long-term addiction!

 

[Ximot]

NOTE: the below is an experience with the s-isomer of ketamine, not racemic ketamine.

I am just back from a 4-day school trip (I am a teacher, not a student) .... on this trip I experimented with S-ketamine... using eyeballed mini-bumps throughout the days... and what I got from it was, after the initial pleasant buzz, pretty much what jamshyd described. I leaned a tad towards manic occasionally, but not so much so that I would be out of control and get carried away with my fancy ideas and thus act inappropriately. What I got was, on the whole, a pleasant state of balance that felt nice rather than dull, and that gave me an aura that seemed to make everyone feel attracted to me -both colleagues and students. A couple of of people found that I seemed to be in an excellent mood and simultaneously very relaxed. But there was no hint of anyone thinking I might be in any way medicated, and I found that people seemed to seek me out and talk to me, ask me what i thought about this and that and tell me things about themselves . . . I was totally a people magnet... I was very nonchalant whilst being totally approachable at the same time... I'd noticed in the past how tiny bumps of K can act as a great "defocuser" when I am tense or socially anxious or overstimulated (for example when I go out to a party of a gig), but these few days in a relaxed yet semi-professional environment REALLY allowed me to explore this side of K. . . Did it almost non-stop for three-and-a-half days (5 to 10 bumps a day) . . . and I feel GREAT today, the day after the trip. And this despite probably having had more beers than hours of sleep during the trip (due to being recruited for night-time drinking by young colleagues and students...who are all 18+, so no worries).

2 thumbs up for mini-K-bumps-as-an-antidepressant. Works instantly. I cannot yet say whether the effects will indeed last 2-3 weeks because it hasn't been that long yet. But I'd wake up in the morning and still feel chirpy . . . like I am perma-thresholded on K right now.
Today I haven' had any yet, and I still feel chilled . . .but tonight I shall go to a concert, and I shall partake in a few more bumps of K, no doubt.

The thing is, the temptation to do just a tad more so one gets a true and proper buzz is always tempting, especially in an environment where it doesn't matter if people can tell... which wasn't the case during the trip, where I really had to keep it low so I'd be properly social... which i was. Hell, it worked almost like a low-dose empathogen . . . like a mini-speedball (I got the calm of a tiny dose of alprazolam or an opiate, the joy of a low dose of amphetamine, and the ability to listen to others and feel for others that I might get on a threshold dose of methylone...)

But for me it is clear that ketamine has so much more to offer at low doses than at K-Hole levels.

Maybe I am just growing up and no longer that interested in freaking myself out with poweful mind-boggling experiences so much any more. And if I keep using like this, my little K-stash should last me years . . .

K is a great tool that has so many dimensions . . . because, as many of us know, it DRASTICALLY changes character at higher doses . . .

Many thanks, jamshyd, for sharing this!!!

 

[Jamshyd]

Thanks a lot for the input, guys

I have updated this thread at last! Mods, please update the thread title to reflect changes (simply c/p the OP's title as I have changed it).

Btw, feedback is appreciated, especially from people who are regular cannabis users.

 

[organicshroom]

Jamshyd what are your thoughts on possible neurotoxicity with daily repeated use? Also while I'm on the subject what is your opinion of ketamine neurotoxicity at k hole does too?

Thankyou for all your inspiring posts.

Darren

 

[Jamshyd]

Hello Darren, thanks for the kind words.

Re toxicity at daily low-dose use: I have personally experienced no symptoms of such, and neither have any of those who tried it. Same goes to other adverse effects associated with chronic Ketamine abuse, such as Urinary Tract infections, which I am happy to say I never got throughout my whole relationship of (mostly) responsible K use.

Re toxicity of daily abuse of high-doses: like any other drug, of course ketamine will prove toxic if abused constantly (although still surprisingly benign). I have only experienced adverse neurological effects twice, both of which were directly associated with blatant abuse - once a huge panic attack, and the other a slightly loopy episode, both of which were terminated with benzodiazepines.

I will note that scientific literature seems to suggest that NMDA-antagonists are neuroprotective, actually. As a matter of fact, it is proven that they are protective in cases of ischemia, if I am not mistaken.

 

[organicshroom]

This statement below is the only real scientific study that has got me worried about even moderate ketamine use.

To quote Wiki

Vutskits et al from Geneva showed that short-term exposure of cultures to ketamine at concentrations of ≥ 20 μg/mL leads to a significant loss of differentiated cells and that non-cell death-inducing concentrations of ketamine (10 μg/mL) can still initiate long-term alterations of dendritic arbor in differentiated neurons, including dendritic retraction and branching point elimination. They also demonstrated that chronic (>24 h) administration of ketamine at concentrations as low as 0.01 μg/mL can interfere with the maintenance of dendritic arbor architecture. These results raise the possibility that chronic exposure to low, subanesthetic concentrations of ketamine, while not affecting cell survival, could still impair neuronal morphology and thus might lead to dysfunctions of neural networks

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ketamine#cite_note-63

Sorry I don't mean to put anyone off, but I think it's important to clarify what the above study actually means. I'm not sure myself.

 

[Jamshyd]

It absolutely blows my mind how people make in vitro studies about alleged toxicity on a single dose of a substance that has been proven by history to be safe in anesthetic practice (at single-doses).

There are multitudes of studies (even fresh ones, see drug studies forum) that are built on the outdated idea that Ketamine is a good model for psychosis, I have learnt to simply ignore said studies.

But as for toxicity - even if I don't agree with the method of the study you quote, I certainly trust my body more than some scientist who was probably paid to skew results. Its been 6 months since my last exposure to Ketamine and I do not feel as though my use has done any damage. I do feel the damage caused by my abuse of other drugs, for sure, but not Ketamine (since it is one drug I've never really abused).

 

[organicshroom]

How do they perform these tests? I mean, have they got live brain tissue in a petri dish or something? The study sounds very controversial to me too, how can they really claim that these changes in the brain are significant enough to be considered negative. It may be proven to be only a temporary change, they never stated it's actual brain damage.

 

[Jamshyd]

Well, they mention cell cultures, which definitely suggests petri dishes

 

[psychedelicious]

Cool, jammy! My ex, who suffers horrendously from bipolar, feels significant relief from ketamine or DXM, for up to a week or so afterwards. She is treatment-resistant, having tried nearly every med indicated for bipolar and many not indicated but still used off-label for bipolar. Ketamine in particular helps her more than DXM, but both definitely have an effect...

I have quite a bit of faith in Jam's findings, especially considering how much I saw it help my ex.

YAY!

 

[Jamshyd]

^ Wow, thanks a lot! . I truly appreciate hearing reports like that!!

 

[Jamshyd]

Bumped to save from spring cleaning!

 

[fastandbulbous]

Never really got any distinct antidepressants when used in a manner described by Jamshyd, but that's not a problem for me as I've found certain tricyclics are effective for me. Where ketamine gets an 'eleven thumbs up' (as Homer Simpson would put it) is in preventing the sort of depression that manifests after using another drug. For me, it's most noticable in that it prevents the development of the crippling Tuesday blues after a weekend dose of MDMA, which nothing else ever seems to prevent for me (and hence why I'm no longer bothered about taking it). The fact that some people are reporting similar AD effects with DXM does make me wonder if it's AD activity isn't actually anything to dop with NMDA antagonism, but related to the fact that both compounds are fairly effective serotonin reuptake inhibitors.

As for long term use though, some people (myself included) cannot consume the 5 x 40mg a day mentioned somewhere in this thread as after a week I start to get unpleasant sensations from my lower abdomen, which rapidly proceeds to excruciating pain if I continue to use. Not sure if it's cystitis/bladder wall inflammation from hell or gall bladder spasm due to norketamine, but whatever it is, it's enough to cause sweat to piss out of me, my skinn to develop a goosflesh type response all due to the unimaginable intensity of the pain being experienced.


While I don't think that ketamine causes any long term neurological damage like the infamous Olney's leisons in humans, my personal experience of when I was using fairly regularly was that it had a detrimental effect on my language skills in that I started to regularly experience the 'word on the tip of my tounge' state, felt my working (everyday use) vocabulary decrease and even started to get deja vu type effects much more often then I ever have. All this seems to have cleared up since I decided that me & ket needed a long holiday from each other.

So while not the terrible demon drug that the press would like us to believe, due to the effects on my linguistic skills, I don't think it's anywhere near as benign as people think. Maybe ultra low doses used several times a day might not produce those sym,ptoms, but it's just far too easy to unconciously up the dose & find yourself in the land ofadverse effects


Jammy, have you ever considered using it by oral administration for your depression, just it's very easy to get ion exchange resin (the sort used in water purifiers is usually Amberlite IRC-50 - which is used to produce pharmaceutical extended release preparations like Ionamine/phentermine - or a very closely related form. Obviously suitable for thatsort of use if it's being used in a water purifier) and produce an extended release version of the drug that would maintain much more stable plasma levels and only once a day dosing (in the past I've done this with 2C-D to produce a dosage form that allows for a 10 hour 2C-D trip from a one off dose)

 

[An Iz]

I've always wondered about this, and in my mind the conflicts between the studies which show that ketamine decreases dendritic connectivity and how it makes me feel at peace and 'with it' can be explained with a simple observation:

You can feel like you understand something either by knowing all aspects of the thing, or by knowing nothing about it.

Like you can feel connected with your environment by knowing how those around you think and feel and react to everything, or by shutting out the awareness of that aspect of life entirely, or like giving it lip service and using that 'knowledge' to ignore the real thing.

And one of those ways of understanding feels difficult and I'm aware of the pain of stretching and growing, and the other feels easy, comfortable, and pleasurable.

Ketamine's the shit though.

 

[Delsyd]

Jammy, have you ever considered using it by oral administration for your depression, just it's very easy to get ion exchange resin (the sort used in water purifiers is usually Amberlite IRC-50 - which is used to produce pharmaceutical extended release preparations like Ionamine/phentermine - or a very closely related form. Obviously suitable for thatsort of use if it's being used in a water purifier) and produce an extended release version of the drug that would maintain much more stable plasma levels and only once a day dosing (in the past I've done this with 2C-D to produce a dosage form that allows for a 10 hour 2C-D trip from a one off dose)

this is incredible. id love some 10 hour 2c-d, and just to have the ability to extend short lasting psychs makes me excited.

What kind of dose did you use with the 2c-d? Higher than what you would normally take since this is sustained release?

 

[fastandbulbous]

Yeah it was about 80mg on the ion exchange resin and it produced a mildish effect (like say 30-40mg orally), but the plateau was about 5-6 hours long. Reckon it would suit the likes of 2C-C, oral DPT & pssibly the 4-hydroxytryptamines. Once the drug becomes longer lasting than say psilocybin, then the extended release idea becomes less appealing - imagine extended release LSD, DOM or AMT

No thank you!


In the main though, I've used it to produce extended release stimulants along the lines of the infamous 'black bombers' which were dexamphetamine on ion exchange resin. Does good things for shorter acting stims like MDPV or ethcathinone. Obviously only some deranged fuckwit would even think of desoxypipradrol extended release!

 

[Jamshyd]

While it is beyond me why anyone at all would want to prolong the action of a psychedelic (), having extended-release K sounds delightful, and seems to be the next best thing after the utopian patch

I will definitely try it next time I have Ketamine available.

I would like to note that I have not used ketamine in the manner described in this thread for just about exactly 1 year now. I had only had two chances to use Ketamine throughout this year, and both were admittedly spent in a state of being-anesthetized-for-a-whole-week kinda thing.

I initiated myself into IMing having found OTC medical vials in the recesses of southern asia. It was delicious to say the least, and I lament having taken K (recreationally) using any other method...

But that's beside the topic. One thing I'd like to note here is that one of the above two sessions happened while I was heavily addicted to Tramadol, taking large daily doses of the latter. I noticed a rather negative synergy - every shot, regardless of dose, will toward the end will result in a depressed paranoid state a la cocaine. Very unsettling.

I am happy to report though that after having stopped taking tramadol, my k experiences returned to normal.

As for adverse effects, I have experienced language difficulties similar to FnB's ONLY when I took K with Tramadol. Do you think your experiences may have something to do with taking K with cannabis?

I also have never experienced bladder/urinary problems, or stomach cramps.

Perhaps these ill-effects are related to certain brands' ingredients, or to genetic disposition (my semitic ilk being entirely different from all you celts/germanics )?

 

[Saku39]

Jam, I couldn't imagine dosing that much a day. But wouldn't taking 100-200mg per day for a week up your tolerance??

I have been prescribed ketamine for mainly treatment resistant depression & social anxiety. The bottle is 10mg per spray & recommends not taking over 10 per day. The effect I enjoy the most is complete freedom from the anxiety that constantly eats at me.

However, one dosing(usually 40-50mg) lasts for about 90 minutes...so thats it. I'm afraid if I started doing this 3, 4, 5 times a day that the anti-anxiety effect would just go away, basically like benzodiapines would behave.

I've tried contacting you in another thread & PM, but no luck so far. I don't have any experience with hallucinations, tripping, K-Holes, or using massive amounts of the drug to try and effect my mood for weeks ahead of time.

If I knew I could do this reliably I probably would. However the risk is that it would make my tolerance go through the roof & the small doses would no longer prove useful for anxiety + only being able to use it for 1 week of the month, rather than every other day. The later of which I would prefer & hasn't caused tolerance so far.

 

[stillmind]

Ketamine for OCD

I've read Jamshyd's medicinal ketamine thread and other reports of using K to alleviate depression. I'm wondering if anyone has had similar success using K to treat anxiety disorders, particularly obsessive compulsive disorder.

More generally, what aftereffects do people find K has on general anxiety levels, and how long do these effects last?

Thanks -s/m

 

[MeDieViL]

I've succesfully come off of a 6 month benzo addiction after having tapered down my dose with Librium, and quitting altogether(Lbrium and Risperidon) in combination with ketamine. I've tried to quit both without ketamine, but after a week the withdral effects where so harsh that I just couldn't handle it anymore, even though I really taperede my dose down very slowly, and was just at 5mg Librium a day at the moment I completely quit alltogether. The wd effects I had were derealisation, depersonalisation, tremor, rebound insomnia, shaking limbs, apathy and depression.

My second attempt, with ketamine, was indeed succesfull and without nearly any withdrawl effects at all! I read an article about a former opioid addict who used to do 100+mg morphine IV daily, and also had quit altogether using ketamine 5 days, once-daily. Because of a slightly more limited stock of ketamine and a high permanent tolerance to it, I used it by a slightly different scheme, but nearly the same. I used it 3 days on end, skipped a day and took the final big dose on the fifth day. I did not get any wd effects in the week after that, nor any in the periods after that, except for some minor sleeping difficulties, but that was just some of the mental part too. All in all, I really have to vow for ketamine's amazing properties at quitting long-term addiction!

I wonder wheter ketamine causes any rebound effects (therefor potentiating NMDA once it wears off). I ask this because i'm interesting in trying ketamine for amphetamine tolerance, but as my supply is going to be limited i wont be able to keep on dosing during the day, if ketamine however causes a rebound effect it would possibly even accelerate tolerance once it wears off.

Any toughts on this?
This study seems to suggest however that the anti withdrawal effect (probably caused by NMDA antagonism) seems to last longer then ketamine itself, wich could point to a longer lasting anti NMDA effect?

Effects of ketamine on precipitated opiate withdrawal
by
Jovaisa T, Laurinenas G, Vosylius S,
Sipylaite J, Badaras R, Ivaskevicius J.
Clinic of Anesthesiology and Intensive Care,
Vilnius University,
Siltnamiu 29, 04130 Vilnius, Lithuania.
[email protected]
Medicina (Kaunas). 2006;42(8):625-34.

ABSTRACT

OBJECTIVE: N-methyl-D-aspartate antagonists were shown to be effective in suppressing the symptoms of opiate withdrawal. Intravenous anesthetic, ketamine, is the most potent N-methyl-D-aspartate antagonist available in clinical practice. The present study was designed to evaluate the effects of subanesthetic ketamine infusion, as little human data are available on ketamine in precipitated opiate withdrawal. MATERIALS AND METHODS: A total of 58 opiate-dependent patients were enrolled in a randomized, placebo-controlled, double-blind study. Patients underwent rapid opiate antagonist induction under general anesthesia. Prior to opiate antagonist induction patients were given either placebo (normal saline) or subanesthetic ketamine infusion of 0.5 mg/kg/h. Further evaluations were divided into three phases: anesthetic, early postanesthetic (48 hours), and remote at 4 months after procedure. Cardiovascular, respiratory, renal, and gastrointestinal responses to opiate antagonist induction were monitored during anesthesia phase. Changes in plasma cortisol concentrations were measured as stress-response markers. Evaluations during early postanesthetic phase were based on Subjective and Objective Opiate Withdrawal Scales. Remote effects were assessed according to questionnaire based on Addiction Severity Index. RESULTS: Altogether, 50 patients were included in the final analysis. Ketamine group presented better control of withdrawal symptoms, which lasted beyond ketamine infusion itself. Significant differences between Ketamine and Control groups were noted in anesthetic and early postanesthetic phases. There were no differences in effects on outcome after 4 months. CONCLUSION: In this study, subanesthetic ketamine infusion was an effective adjuvant in the correction of acute precipitated opiate withdrawal although it had no long-term effects on treatment of opiate dependence.

Also, jamshyd experiences that he has releive from depression by building a tolerance to ketamine, again that makes me think he's actually benefitting from a rebound effect, thus more sensitive NMDA receptors?