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Kratom Isolated 7-OH-Mitragynine products are beginning to hit the market (!...?)

Jabberwocky

Jabberwocky

Frumious Bandersnatch
Joined
Nov 3, 1999
Messages
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Looking-Glass Land
Perusing one of my favorite kratom vendors (most known for their extracts), I noticed them offering a new product. Isolated 7-OH-mitragynine, with 0% mitragynine.

By law no product or botanical material may contain more than 2% by weight, so they are using the same hemp farm THC loophole to sell it in an isolated form. (product no more than 0.3% THC by weight)

Anecdotes, reviews, and information are extremely sparse at this point. One person on reddit, who claims to know the scientists/producers who apparently found a convenient isolation technique, made a few comments about it. Pure isolated 7-OH was described as a "golden" color oil, with a sweet caramel like smell, but does not taste sweet. The high is that of more typical opioids, and extremely addictive, less stimulating than kratom.

While my druggy mind is excited, I'm also worried about the implications this might bring and heat from the feds.

I've ordered two products from two different vendors, an extract shot and some pills. Shot arrives tomorrow, pills in a few more days, but I will report when I get them to confirm it's legit.

Extracts with added 7-OH aren't exactly that new, I've seen 5% mit / 1.8% 7-OH, and 20% mit / 1.5% 7-OH products recently in the last few months. They have very good reviews, and I've ordered some 20%mit / 1.5% 7-OH as well for reference to these supposed isolates. This is the first time I've seen completely isolated 7-OH for retail sale, though. (I've seen it before many years ago, but was complete scam)

@Didgital wondering if you might know anything about the legitimacy of this or any details. The extract shots are dissolved in propylene glycol and absorbic acid. The only (literally 2) anecdotes I've read suggest the pills are better and the shots can be hit or miss.

Also -- beware if you go googling around for these products. They cannot be found on google with vague terms, I tried last night. The vast majority of "7-OH" products on various googled vendors are just bunk or regular extracts. You need to know the specific vendor(s). One of these distributors is selling the shots in brick and mortar stores in the North East US, but I bought mine online. I'm afraid I can't be too specific here.

lab report for a 15mg 7-OH pill:

[Removed as it could technically be reverse image searched]

Posting my review of the substance, so far:
Snafu in the Void said:
So, I'm slowly coming to the conclusion that pure 7-OH by itself is not for everyone. It's a very very potent opioid, that is no doubt. However, it's missing certain qualities that made me enjoy kratom through the years.

It is almost completely devoid of mental euphoria that you get from other kratom alkaloids, it doesn't have motivation or antidepressant properties. It is mostly physically euphoric and powerfully analgesic. Neither does it possess the mental euphoria that other opioids have like oxy or heroin. It's not quite as empty as fentanyl, but leans in that direction.

I would only really recommend it to people who have actual pain issues, or if you want an extra kick to your regular kratom. It would also be considerably better for withdrawal from other opioids than kratom powder. You could probably switch from heroin or fentanyl to this stuff with zero withdrawals at all.

Withdrawals from 7-OH are likely to be just as bad as real opioids. If one were to manage to become addicted to kratom powder AND 7-OH, I'd wager the withdrawals are truly nightmarish.

For the average person, I think the best way to use it would be in small doses around 2.5-10mg, and adding it to your favorite kratom strains. This creates a much more balanced and euphoric effect.

By itself it's really "missing" something... when comparing it to kratom on a whole.

I just combined 7.5mg with 4g of a good white strain... pretty amazing high... probably the best kratom high I can imagine. Much more euphoric than 15mg of 7-OH by itself.
Click to expand...
 
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Isn’t it still only a partial agonist? I understand that doesn’t mean it’s not strong, look at buprenorphine for example.
 
Kasuall said:
Isn’t it still only a partial agonist? I understand that doesn’t mean it’s not strong, look at buprenorphine for example.
Click to expand...
Yes, it is also an antagonist as well.

However the studies they've done on mice when comparing it to morphine show it to be quite more potent. 7-OH undergoes further metabolization into mitragynine pseudoindoxil - which is even more potent, and I believe is a full agonist.

Subjective anecdotes I've read are very positive and describe it as amazingly euphoric (in comparison to regular mitragynine), and much closer to classical opioids in terms of effects.
 
I’d be interested in checking it out. I wonder if it would induce nausea like kratom extract products frequently seem to do
 
AlsoTapered said:
Mitragynine pseudoindoxyl is the really potent metabolite - over 34 times the potency of morphine an over 160 times the potency of 7-OH mitragynine.

Library Genesis

libgen.pm libgen.pm

The body metabolizes mitragynine into the pseudoindoxyl but as far as I know, the precise pathway isn't known beyond it being mediated by plasma enzymes.

Library Genesis

libgen.pm libgen.pm
Click to expand...
I believe there are several metabolization pathways of mitragynine in the liver. Mitragynine -> 7-OH is mediated via CYP3A4 I believe, but it surely is not the preferred pathway and only occurs in limited amounts.

7-OH undergoes further rearrangement into pseudoindoxil, not sure how though.
 
Snafu in the Void said:
Yes, it is also an antagonist as well.

However the studies they've done on mice when comparing it to morphine show it to be quite more potent. 7-OH undergoes further metabolization into mitragynine pseudoindoxil - which is even more potent, and I believe is a full agonist.

Subjective anecdotes I've read are very positive and describe it as amazingly euphoric (in comparison to regular mitragynine), and much closer to classical opioids in terms of effects.
Click to expand...
If they can find a way to standardize the isolation process of the alkaloid in a financially viable manner, I guarantee head shops are going to be full of bottles with capsules with them. Hell they’ll probably combine tianeptine, 7–OH and of course put some bullshit Kava Kava or Alpha GPC in it and sell it for $50 a bottle and it’ll fly off the shelves.
 
Kasuall said:
If they can find a way to standardize the isolation process of the alkaloid in a financially viable manner, I guarantee head shops are going to be full of bottles with capsules with them. Hell they’ll probably combine tianeptine, 7–OH and of course put some bullshit Kava Kava or Alpha GPC in it and sell it for $50 a bottle and it’ll fly off the shelves.
Click to expand...
Yeah, and that's what I'm afraid of. This country does not need an echo of the opioid crisis in easily accessible headshops. That will get kratom banned at hyperspeed.

Mitragynine has a built in overdose safety - wobbles, nausea, dysphoria, if you take too much or abuse it.

Isolated 7-OH might not have that safety net. Kids nodding out at school on this stuff would not be good.
 
I, for one, don't believe they are isolating 7-OH mitragynine. They are isolating the vastly higher concentrations of mitragynine and oxidizing them.

I said I only knew of two published routes but I strongly suspect manganese (III) acetate also works because lots of manganese is turning up in these 'extracts'.

scholarscompass.vcu.edu

The Analysis of Commercially Available Kratom Products in Richmond, Virginia

Kratom is a novel psychoactive substance that has gained popularity within the past ten years. Originating from Southeast Asia, the leaves of the Mitragyna speciosa tree contain two principal alkaloids, mitragynine and 7-hydroxymitragynine, that play a key role in opioid-like effects...
scholarscompass.vcu.edu scholarscompass.vcu.edu

All the hallmarks of shoddy Chinese chemistry. Most of the research into the actives in Kratom have been carried out by Japanese researchers so their may be a route that hasn't been translated to English.


Above patent page 60 shows a MUCH simpler methodology but the yield is only 50%. The cost of mytragynine being what it is OR possibly nobody having spotted this might make Mn(OCOCH3)3 the most profitable and/or practical method known.

It's often hard to figure out the thinking behind dodgy vendors. I SUSPECT a Chinese supplier is simply offering it in bulk with no GC-MS/NMR or a fake... but a lot of vendors don't know how to read said instrumentation anyway.
 
AlsoTapered said:
I, for one, don't believe they are isolating 7-OH mitragynine. They are isolating the vastly higher concentrations of mitragynine and oxidizing them.

I said I only knew of two published routes but I strongly suspect manganese (III) acetate also works because lots of manganese is turning up in these 'extracts'.

scholarscompass.vcu.edu

The Analysis of Commercially Available Kratom Products in Richmond, Virginia

Kratom is a novel psychoactive substance that has gained popularity within the past ten years. Originating from Southeast Asia, the leaves of the Mitragyna speciosa tree contain two principal alkaloids, mitragynine and 7-hydroxymitragynine, that play a key role in opioid-like effects...
scholarscompass.vcu.edu scholarscompass.vcu.edu

All the hallmarks of shoddy Chinese chemistry. Most of the research into the actives in Kratom have been carried out by Japanese researchers so their may be a route that hasn't been translated to English.


Above patent page 60 shows a MUCH simpler methodology but the yield is only 50%. The cost of mytragynine being what it is OR possibly nobody having spotted this might make Mn(OCOCH3)3 the most profitable and/or practical method known.

It's often hard to figure out the thinking behind dodgy vendors. I SUSPECT a Chinese supplier is simply offering it in bulk with no GC-MS/NMR or a fake... but a lot of vendors don't know how to read said instrumentation anyway.
Click to expand...
You're probably right. It wouldn't be commercially practical to isolate from the plant.

The average plant contains about:
1.5-2% mitragynine
0.1-0.4% of several various other actives
Maybe 0.004% of 7-OH

But they really don't even test for 7-OH. The standard on every commercial analysis certificate is to only check a cutoff value of >0.01% 7-OH (which I have never seen this cutoff met).

Synthesizing it from mitragynine, which is relatively easy to isolate, is how it's made I'm quite sure. Separating mitragynine completely from the other alkaloids might take a few more steps.
 
BTW what all the oxidation methods have in common is that they provide 'single electron oxidation' because, after all, you are selectively oxidizing an indole system (an aromatic).
 
Interesting stuff. Thanks for all the research Snafu.

I always tend to get confused. I know kratom had agonists but did not know it had antagonists also. To me that would kick itself out of a receptor but what do I know. Also when my wife needed oxycodone for pain she took those first, then kratom and claimed it potentiated the kratom later on. Where as if she took kratom first it weakened the effect of oxycodone. Very strange but from me it is all just opinion and what I heard. Also it seems to take a few days after stopping kratom for the lighter opiates like codeine or hydrocodone to work. The stronger opiates seem to over power kratom.
 
AlsoTapered said:
BTW what all the oxidation methods have in common is that they provide 'single electron oxidation' because, after all, you are selectively oxidizing an indole system (an aromatic).
Click to expand...
The guy on reddit said it's being made in the US, at least the extract shots I ordered. That's the brand which is showing up in retail stores.

The pills I ordered look a little sketchier, not branded for retail, obviously pressed by an individual and not a public company. Wouldn't be surprised if it came from China or elsewhere.
 
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JackARoe said:
I always tend to get confused. I know kratom had agonists but did not know it had antagonists also. To me that would kick itself out of a receptor but what do I know.
Click to expand...
Mitragynine, for example, can bind as either an agonist or antagonist. It is also nonspecific to opioid receptors and also binds to a2 adrenal receptors, D1 dopamine receptors, 5HT2/1 serotonin receptors, and a few others. Does quite a few things.

I also made another thread trying to experiment as to the mechanism behind the tolerance to kratom's opioid effects, which is also unlike other opioids.

Kratom does not downregulate mu opioid receptors with chronic use, which is a main factor in other opioid tolerance.

Kratom has also been shown to reduce both tolerance and withdrawal when administered together with morphine (in rats). It doesn't have a direct cross tolerance to oxy.

It's very complex and still deeply unknown. Kratom is a bizare plant. It's within the coffee genus of plants, and mitragynine is a derivative of tryptamines of all things.
 
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Snafu in the Void said:
Yeah, and that's what I'm afraid of. This country does not need an echo of the opioid crisis in easily accessible headshops. That will get kratom banned at hyperspeed.

Mitragynine has a built in overdose safety - wobbles, nausea, dysphoria, if you take too much or abuse it.

Isolated 7-OH might not have that safety net. Kids nodding out at school on this stuff would not be good.
Click to expand...

I think you’re right in that “The Opioid Epidemic” is still close enough in the cultural memory (and is still ongoing obviously, in a different form) that bad press wouldn’t be helpful for kratom’s social acceptance

On the other hand, I suffer from an extreme, reactive, visceral hatred against the prohibitionists and the culture of fear they’ve created regarding these issues. Yeah, there are a lotta morons out there, and if you give those morons freedom to do a thing, some of em may decide to use that freedom in an irresponsible way and post the results on TikTok or wherever, who gives a shit 🙄 the answer isn’t “no freedom”. it makes me extremely resentful when the actions of a relatively small minority dictate when I can or can’t try.

I saw some people on Reddit saying, oooohh, we gotta watch out with these kratom extracts, some people are going overboard with this shit and it’s gonna make the federales come down hard on kratom, oh noes! It’s like yeah, with literally every drug there will be people who “go overboard” ok? What about the consumers who simply prefer to ingest it that, as opposed to taking it as a bunch of capsules or powder or whatever? 🙄
 

Suspected Adulteration of Commercial Kratom Products with 7-Hydroxymitragynine - PMC

Kratom (Mitragyna speciosa), a plant native to Southeast Asia, has been used for centuries for its stimulant and opium-like effects. Mitragynine and 7-hydroxymitragynine, exclusive to M. speciosa, are the alkaloids primary responsible for Kratom's ...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

It looks like 7-hydroxymitragynine has been added to kratom for years. Possibly to gain market-share. Then, as Grisham's law operates in ALL drug markets, someone simply 'announced' that they were selling 100% 7-hydroxymitragynine.
 
Vendor A (who I ordered the extract shots from) landed. Curiously, they sent me a sample of the same pills I ordered from vendor B. They are keeping it off their public menu, sent me a secret link to buy more. So it seems these two unrelated vendors have the same source of the pills.

I took half a pill 30 minutes ago, and so far I can certainly attest that they are seemingly legit. Already feel it, and there is no usual stimulation like every other kratom product or extract. Feels very "clean" like I took 5mg of oxy or something (so far).

I'll play around a bit more, write a mini trip report later.
 
How much is supposed to be in each pill? While obviously it's possible to formulate a tablet to contain any amount (that will fit), do they specify a dose?

I would most certainly have them tested - I would not be surprised to find that they actually contain something else. Their are MUCH cheaper synthetics like dimethylaminopivalophenone which is only about as potent as pethidine, but BOY is it cheap. That it hadn't turned up so far kind of surprised me given that it's a 1-step synthesis from cheap, non-suspicious commercial chemicals. 50mg of DAPP would feel like 5mg of OC. I only tried it once but as with AH-7921, we didn't think it was very good so went with U-47700.
 
AlsoTapered said:
How much is supposed to be in each pill? While obviously it's possible to formulate a tablet to contain any amount (that will fit), do they specify a dose?
Click to expand...
15mg of 7-OH

Lab COA says 15.9mg, but obviously it's an old report, and doesn't really mean much. Both vendors provided the same COA report, so it's not individually tested like they usually do with their regular products.

I wouldn't be surprised if it is underdosed.

AlsoTapered said:
I would most certainly have them tested - I would not be surprised to find that they actually contain something else. Their are MUCH cheaper synthetics like dimethylaminopivalophenone which is only about as potent as pethidine, but BOY is it cheap. That it hadn't turned up so far kind of surprised me given that it's a 1-step synthesis from cheap, non-suspicious commercial chemicals. 50mg of DAPP would feel like 5mg of OC. I only tried it once but as with AH-7921, we didn't think it was very good so went with U-47700.
Click to expand...
I might, but in terms of effects I've been feeling the last 90 minutes, I'm quite confident the only thing in this pill came out of kratom. Feels like kratom alkaloids to me, and feels like it's sharing a cross tolerance with my kratom dependence.

This is also from a well established vendor with a brick and mortar retail store. They're big.

Can never be certain unless tested, yes, but I'm confident it is derived from kratom and not some other RC opioid.
 
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