BigTrancer
Bluelight Crew
- Joined
- Mar 12, 2000
- Messages
- 7,342
Treating Meth Addiction <-- Interesting current thread in Other Drugs about a sensitive issue.
BigTrancer
BigTrancer
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AADD Moderators: andyturbo
Ice: is it worth the high?
- Thread starter Dirty_Deed
- Start date
phase_dancer
Bluelight Crew
The following is intended to be relevant to the casual user. It is not meant to represent or pertain to the percentage of users who bypass dilution early or develop high tolerance from years of chronic use. I tend to think however, this would probably represent the majority of users.
With most drugs, particularly meth, the dosage plays the biggest part in any physical addiction. I'm not talking of obsessive compulsive or habitual behavior such as the desire for cold blue steel or soft palate sting, but rather of the inability to perform due to severe biochemical upset.
For many years the majority of irregular meth users took their meth by insufflation. Mixing it with glucose assured both a "diluted" mix, as well as a limit to how much could be snorted due to irritation. I see nasal irritation as a good "natural" handbrake for meth. I'm not saying this form of administration is without risks, or that chronic use won't damage sinuses etc., but being unable to breath does tend to slow you down.
All that began to change as people found base. A general attitude began to prevail
"Fuck snorting and the sore nose shit, just bomb it"
As I see it, this brought about two major changes. It took away the social ritual of snorting, which for many was a special occasion - chopping, talking, snorting, passing - signifying perhaps a highlight of the night. Base was (mostly) swallowed before you went out, often in a rush to get ready. It also upped the (average) dose several fold, and in a way, convenience of concentrate was to replace the socially appeasing practice of occasional, but weaker repeats. I'm not saying people don't smoke base, but most users in my experience tend to eat or drink it; solvent being a strong deterrent perhaps?
Then came the rock, crystal, shabu, ice etc. Nothing new in the substance, just availability of the form. Maybe 20 or more times as potent as the original speed, it's method of delivery could once again employ *ritual*, the thing often missing with base. It also provided a powerful rush, more than from snorting, intense but rather short lived.
From a pharmacological point of view, the cut and snorted speed is delivered via two pathways. Some quickly absorbs through mucous membranes into the bloodstream where it heads straight for the brain (but not as direct and fast as vapourising/inhaling) Most of the remaining becomes bundled up in mucous and gets swallowed. From here it gets absorbed and passes into the liver where much is metabolised (first pass metabolism). The products are still active, but they're not as euphoric as the *raw* meth.
Base, when swallowed also gets metabolised, but we're usually talking of significant increases in strength to cut powder. Some metabolites have longer half lives than meth, so base seems to keep you going for ages.
But crystal, which is frequently smoked, bypasses first pass metabolism and goes straight to go (the brain) Here, massive amounts of dopamine (DA) and norephephrine (nor-adrenaline or NE) are pumped out of neurons. MAO-B, while somewhat inhibited, rapidly metabolises these neurotransmitters. Enzymes also rapidly breakdown the meth, producing high concentrations of peroxide radicals, which in turn damage neurons. Repeated administrations begin to deplete reserves of DA. As a delayed response and one which continually rises over chronic use, more MAO-B is produced in attempt to correct what is a major homeostatic upset. Receptors begin to recede into cell walls, nd other priorities are placed on metabolising via alternative routes. In short your body is running way off optimum to keep functioning.
An unrealistic representation? Perhaps. I'm not denying the same principles apply to small amounts of speed, it's simply we are talking an order of magnitude in the strength of a potent sympathomimetic amine.
An observation. I found the effects from smoking meth crystal to be very similar to those from crack, which I dislike because of the level of anxiety I experience which seems to override the positive effects. In contrast for me, a small dose of snorted speed/glucose produces the desired result without the anxiety. And the stinging nose is a powerful reminder of the drug's potency.
With most drugs, particularly meth, the dosage plays the biggest part in any physical addiction. I'm not talking of obsessive compulsive or habitual behavior such as the desire for cold blue steel or soft palate sting, but rather of the inability to perform due to severe biochemical upset.
For many years the majority of irregular meth users took their meth by insufflation. Mixing it with glucose assured both a "diluted" mix, as well as a limit to how much could be snorted due to irritation. I see nasal irritation as a good "natural" handbrake for meth. I'm not saying this form of administration is without risks, or that chronic use won't damage sinuses etc., but being unable to breath does tend to slow you down.
All that began to change as people found base. A general attitude began to prevail
"Fuck snorting and the sore nose shit, just bomb it"
As I see it, this brought about two major changes. It took away the social ritual of snorting, which for many was a special occasion - chopping, talking, snorting, passing - signifying perhaps a highlight of the night. Base was (mostly) swallowed before you went out, often in a rush to get ready. It also upped the (average) dose several fold, and in a way, convenience of concentrate was to replace the socially appeasing practice of occasional, but weaker repeats. I'm not saying people don't smoke base, but most users in my experience tend to eat or drink it; solvent being a strong deterrent perhaps?
Then came the rock, crystal, shabu, ice etc. Nothing new in the substance, just availability of the form. Maybe 20 or more times as potent as the original speed, it's method of delivery could once again employ *ritual*, the thing often missing with base. It also provided a powerful rush, more than from snorting, intense but rather short lived.
From a pharmacological point of view, the cut and snorted speed is delivered via two pathways. Some quickly absorbs through mucous membranes into the bloodstream where it heads straight for the brain (but not as direct and fast as vapourising/inhaling) Most of the remaining becomes bundled up in mucous and gets swallowed. From here it gets absorbed and passes into the liver where much is metabolised (first pass metabolism). The products are still active, but they're not as euphoric as the *raw* meth.
Base, when swallowed also gets metabolised, but we're usually talking of significant increases in strength to cut powder. Some metabolites have longer half lives than meth, so base seems to keep you going for ages.
But crystal, which is frequently smoked, bypasses first pass metabolism and goes straight to go (the brain) Here, massive amounts of dopamine (DA) and norephephrine (nor-adrenaline or NE) are pumped out of neurons. MAO-B, while somewhat inhibited, rapidly metabolises these neurotransmitters. Enzymes also rapidly breakdown the meth, producing high concentrations of peroxide radicals, which in turn damage neurons. Repeated administrations begin to deplete reserves of DA. As a delayed response and one which continually rises over chronic use, more MAO-B is produced in attempt to correct what is a major homeostatic upset. Receptors begin to recede into cell walls, nd other priorities are placed on metabolising via alternative routes. In short your body is running way off optimum to keep functioning.
An unrealistic representation? Perhaps. I'm not denying the same principles apply to small amounts of speed, it's simply we are talking an order of magnitude in the strength of a potent sympathomimetic amine.
An observation. I found the effects from smoking meth crystal to be very similar to those from crack, which I dislike because of the level of anxiety I experience which seems to override the positive effects. In contrast for me, a small dose of snorted speed/glucose produces the desired result without the anxiety. And the stinging nose is a powerful reminder of the drug's potency.
evygirl
Bluelighter
I've had ice, and it makes me see things that are not there for about three days after I have seen it. My boy speaks a whole heap of crap when hes on it, and doens't seem to finish his sentences!
Havn't posted in a while, but thought I would share with you guys about what happened to my friend.
He was on an Ice Binge for about a month, one day while at work he had sharp pains in his chest. I told him this was normal and might last a couple of days as ice just sticks to ya insides. Well that couple of days turned into 2 weeks. He then decided to go to the doctors, and the doctor told him that his pipe leading down to his lungs was slightly burnt. They found this out by shoving one of those camera's down his pipe at the specialist. You can imagine what was going though his head. Anyway it's been 3 months since his stopped taking the shit and the pains have completely gone. In the end, he new what he was doing and learnt the hard way. Some times it takes life threating news to wake some people up, but I bet if he was told it was gonna burn his insides like the way it did, he wouldn't of done it in the first place.
Thats why web sites like this, which put all there efforts into harm reduction will continue to be the No. 1 source of information for drug users of all makes and models. So here's another Tip. Before Ice starts burning away your brain, depending on how you consume it, it might me burning away your insides.
Keep up the good work.
Cheers.
He was on an Ice Binge for about a month, one day while at work he had sharp pains in his chest. I told him this was normal and might last a couple of days as ice just sticks to ya insides. Well that couple of days turned into 2 weeks. He then decided to go to the doctors, and the doctor told him that his pipe leading down to his lungs was slightly burnt. They found this out by shoving one of those camera's down his pipe at the specialist. You can imagine what was going though his head. Anyway it's been 3 months since his stopped taking the shit and the pains have completely gone. In the end, he new what he was doing and learnt the hard way. Some times it takes life threating news to wake some people up, but I bet if he was told it was gonna burn his insides like the way it did, he wouldn't of done it in the first place.
Thats why web sites like this, which put all there efforts into harm reduction will continue to be the No. 1 source of information for drug users of all makes and models. So here's another Tip. Before Ice starts burning away your brain, depending on how you consume it, it might me burning away your insides.
Keep up the good work.
Cheers.
I have noticed lately aswell that lots of people are smoking 'ICE'- 'METH'. Fair enough thats their choice. I have heard of dealers giving free 'ICE' hits to people aswell as this drug is known to be highly addictive.
Me, personally, dont want to try it as being a 'addictive' drug, Id probably get hooked on it! hehe-ill just stick with my usual!
Ciao pplz!!!
Me, personally, dont want to try it as being a 'addictive' drug, Id probably get hooked on it! hehe-ill just stick with my usual!
Ciao pplz!!!
shorza
Bluelighter
ExE - How did your friend take it? Did he just eat it?
SteveElektro
Bluelighter
^^ Burning trachea?
You'd think it would be smoking it it, no?
You'd think it would be smoking it it, no?
BeatBreaker
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Feb 16, 2003
- Messages
- 63
Ice, not a good idea. had it once for the come down, felt better immediately so smoked it for several hours that day on and off just cos it made me temporally feel better. One day later the story wasnt quite the same, not having slept and still feeling wired, not having a clue or any coherent thought and feeling extreemly depressed 2 days after. if u ask me the costs do not outweigh the benefits of ice
ExE:
The pipe they shoved the camera into is the oesophagus (fuck knows how to spell it). This is the passage leading to your stomach. Trachea is your windpipe which goes to your lungs where meth vapour flows through.
It is a very common problem to have parts of the oesophagus thinner then others (whether naturally or from anything else). This causes sharp pains in the chest that do not seem to go away. The condition is quite benign I believe and goes away by itself but may reoccur.
I don't think your bfs condition was anything to do with meth (but that's just my opinion knowing someone with the same diagnosis)
The pipe they shoved the camera into is the oesophagus (fuck knows how to spell it). This is the passage leading to your stomach. Trachea is your windpipe which goes to your lungs where meth vapour flows through.
It is a very common problem to have parts of the oesophagus thinner then others (whether naturally or from anything else). This causes sharp pains in the chest that do not seem to go away. The condition is quite benign I believe and goes away by itself but may reoccur.
I don't think your bfs condition was anything to do with meth
(but that's just my opinion knowing someone with the same diagnosis)
Leprechaun
Bluelighter
Yes I think they do have a choice...
Everyone has a choice. I know when something is addictive, I feel and observe the desire... However, once you have chosen a certain life for yourself, if you want to change, its always hard. No matter what lifestyle you are in, changing yourself is very difficult. Try earning $100000 a year for 4 years then $30000 a year. The pain is felt by EVERYONE around the person... Especially when they have to sell their house, car etc... Now, try deciding that its would be better to earn $30000 a year. Given the engrained belief that more money is better. Such a decision in our culture is next to impossible.
My point is, change of any kind is difficult.
Everyone has a choice. I know when something is addictive, I feel and observe the desire... However, once you have chosen a certain life for yourself, if you want to change, its always hard. No matter what lifestyle you are in, changing yourself is very difficult. Try earning $100000 a year for 4 years then $30000 a year. The pain is felt by EVERYONE around the person... Especially when they have to sell their house, car etc... Now, try deciding that its would be better to earn $30000 a year. Given the engrained belief that more money is better. Such a decision in our culture is next to impossible.
My point is, change of any kind is difficult.
addicted
I read through this forum and a few others that concerned Ice or meth. This is just my 2 cents worth.
Ice is nothing like speed or whizz. Whizz got me buzzed and awake, but i seemed to fall asleep easier when I was tired out or at least the mood swings weren't so severe. I've been on ice for almost a year now. And i can tell you right now, its NOT worth the high.
Forgive me if I'm rambling, i don't know where to start. I smoke it through a crack bong. And i'm ashamed to say that I use this drug because it made me lose weight. I still use it because I want to be slim. No. make that skinny.
The mood swings are not a joke. I lose my temper over the smallest smallest things. The depression is see-saw like. One moment i'm fine, the next, i'm seething or bawling in tears. I lie in bed, without the will to get up and do anything, and blame the world, myself, everything but the drug.
I've become another person. I mean, it's like i'd snap at something or get really pissed off and then i realise later, really, i was being unreasonable or ridiculous. And I hate myself like that. The way I'm sarcastic, rude and snappy is intolerable, and i can see it, but i can't stop myself from seething inside, and it shows even though i try to tell myself that its the drug, just shut up and be calm. doesn't work really.
Then there's the suspicion. I constantly suspect things. I listen to snatches of conversation and I believe that people are talking about me. I am wary and testy about anything any one says. They could be talking about something totally unrelated and i'd relate it to me. and get angry, or distrust others more and more.
Money for the drug, i've had to borrow. And like a few other posts have said, my dealer would give me some every now and then for free. so I always have a hit. I want to stop very much. and I've tried, and the suspicion is still there, i'm still irritable, but less. But i also couldn't keep it up, i put on weight after stopping for about 2 weeks and immediately went back to using. I'm ashamed to admit its all to do with losing weight.
I have a friend who's a real heavy user, the one who introduced me to this in the first place, he at this moment believes his ex girlfriends friends are following him everywhere. Another pal of mine, she suddenly stopped forming sentences and panicked and could only stutter. And each time u just sit there and smoke more and more. until you don't go out just to stay home and smoke by yourself.
I want to stop, but i'm not too sure how.... i don't really like weed and its difficult to smoke it in my enviroment. ice is oudorless and nobody notices.
i use a combo of xanax and stillnox to sleep, but i don't think it helps in keeping me sane. I'm also on the team of it's the individual, don't blame the drug. because I am the one who decides to use it.
Ice. not worth the high. I've simplified what i've said, multiply it all by a few times. i don't know how to put across the message that moderation may be the key, but its the most addictive drug i've used, and it fucks you up faster than anything alse mentally.8(
I read through this forum and a few others that concerned Ice or meth. This is just my 2 cents worth.
Ice is nothing like speed or whizz. Whizz got me buzzed and awake, but i seemed to fall asleep easier when I was tired out or at least the mood swings weren't so severe. I've been on ice for almost a year now. And i can tell you right now, its NOT worth the high.
Forgive me if I'm rambling, i don't know where to start. I smoke it through a crack bong. And i'm ashamed to say that I use this drug because it made me lose weight. I still use it because I want to be slim. No. make that skinny.
The mood swings are not a joke. I lose my temper over the smallest smallest things. The depression is see-saw like. One moment i'm fine, the next, i'm seething or bawling in tears. I lie in bed, without the will to get up and do anything, and blame the world, myself, everything but the drug.
I've become another person. I mean, it's like i'd snap at something or get really pissed off and then i realise later, really, i was being unreasonable or ridiculous. And I hate myself like that. The way I'm sarcastic, rude and snappy is intolerable, and i can see it, but i can't stop myself from seething inside, and it shows even though i try to tell myself that its the drug, just shut up and be calm. doesn't work really.
Then there's the suspicion. I constantly suspect things. I listen to snatches of conversation and I believe that people are talking about me. I am wary and testy about anything any one says. They could be talking about something totally unrelated and i'd relate it to me. and get angry, or distrust others more and more.
Money for the drug, i've had to borrow. And like a few other posts have said, my dealer would give me some every now and then for free. so I always have a hit. I want to stop very much. and I've tried, and the suspicion is still there, i'm still irritable, but less. But i also couldn't keep it up, i put on weight after stopping for about 2 weeks and immediately went back to using. I'm ashamed to admit its all to do with losing weight.
I have a friend who's a real heavy user, the one who introduced me to this in the first place, he at this moment believes his ex girlfriends friends are following him everywhere. Another pal of mine, she suddenly stopped forming sentences and panicked and could only stutter. And each time u just sit there and smoke more and more. until you don't go out just to stay home and smoke by yourself.
I want to stop, but i'm not too sure how.... i don't really like weed and its difficult to smoke it in my enviroment. ice is oudorless and nobody notices.
i use a combo of xanax and stillnox to sleep, but i don't think it helps in keeping me sane. I'm also on the team of it's the individual, don't blame the drug. because I am the one who decides to use it.
Ice. not worth the high. I've simplified what i've said, multiply it all by a few times. i don't know how to put across the message that moderation may be the key, but its the most addictive drug i've used, and it fucks you up faster than anything alse mentally.8(
phase_dancer
Bluelight Crew
Hi Junkie8, welcome to Bluelight. I noticed you registered sometime ago, so I see this post as being an important step forward for you. You are admitting of your situation; usually regarded as the first important step towards addiction recovery.
My first suggestion would be to seek professional counseling, but I understand this is never easy. Another possible approach is to be your own advisor. It's by far a more difficult path, but you have already displayed what appears to be an honest self appraisal. Success will build a very strong character so PM me if you'd like some suggestions. I'm not a therapist, but I found this was my way out from a serious coke habit some years ago, and the same techniques have also helped others.
Good luck on whatever path you decide. Know you are far from alone in this. Try to ensure you get as much natural light (sunshine) as you can and if at all possible confide in someone you've always trusted.
Don't ever stop believing there is a way out.
My first suggestion would be to seek professional counseling, but I understand this is never easy. Another possible approach is to be your own advisor. It's by far a more difficult path, but you have already displayed what appears to be an honest self appraisal. Success will build a very strong character so PM me if you'd like some suggestions. I'm not a therapist, but I found this was my way out from a serious coke habit some years ago, and the same techniques have also helped others.
Good luck on whatever path you decide. Know you are far from alone in this. Try to ensure you get as much natural light (sunshine) as you can and if at all possible confide in someone you've always trusted.
Don't ever stop believing there is a way out.
HaRdCoRe_ViBeS
Bluelighter
just thought id have to add my little bit on this subject. (i only read the first page, but its all gonna be goin over the smae stuff anyway.)
i personaly just got out of a major addiction with most of the party drugs. i started earlier then hlaf of my mates, and now they have all started. the problem is they saw me go hard on heaps of drugs, so they do it to. the difference was i needed to take heaps coz i had been doin it for years, while they do heaps coz they think it is needed and they think its cool (which is SOOOO wrong). now gettin to the ice factor, its the new big thing in melb, and with my mates. they're all havin it every weekend and i find they are gettin too wierd. i used to be able to sit down and talk to these people for hours about anything, but these days there conversation jumps here and ther, but always gets back to drugs. this is gettin me really worried, coz i dont wannna see them go through what i did.
Now i know that addiction is the users own fault, coz i know it was my own fault. but just because its your own fault doesnt mean you have to break it by yourself. the biggest strength is friends and family. if they dont help you get out of it then its 10x as hard. i think that it needs to be pointed out to the addict that they are getting messed up and that it is effecting more then just them, but the people around them as well. the only other way people are going to realise that drugs are destroying their lives is if they have the extreamly bad experience, which is what happened to me, and i dont want anybody to go through that. anyways people i think ive said enough. but if this is happening to one or more of your friends, please have the guts to speak to them, before its too late.....
i personaly just got out of a major addiction with most of the party drugs. i started earlier then hlaf of my mates, and now they have all started. the problem is they saw me go hard on heaps of drugs, so they do it to. the difference was i needed to take heaps coz i had been doin it for years, while they do heaps coz they think it is needed and they think its cool (which is SOOOO wrong). now gettin to the ice factor, its the new big thing in melb, and with my mates. they're all havin it every weekend and i find they are gettin too wierd. i used to be able to sit down and talk to these people for hours about anything, but these days there conversation jumps here and ther, but always gets back to drugs. this is gettin me really worried, coz i dont wannna see them go through what i did.
Now i know that addiction is the users own fault, coz i know it was my own fault. but just because its your own fault doesnt mean you have to break it by yourself. the biggest strength is friends and family. if they dont help you get out of it then its 10x as hard. i think that it needs to be pointed out to the addict that they are getting messed up and that it is effecting more then just them, but the people around them as well. the only other way people are going to realise that drugs are destroying their lives is if they have the extreamly bad experience, which is what happened to me, and i dont want anybody to go through that. anyways people i think ive said enough. but if this is happening to one or more of your friends, please have the guts to speak to them, before its too late.....
HaRdCoRe_ViBeS
Bluelighter
i thought id just have to add this
if any of my friends see this (you know who you are)
please dont take offence. i havnt done this to diss you, or to judge you, ive simply done it coz im concerned and i care about you, and im sure other people out there are in the same situation as me and you. so dont worry , you'll all be alright, just take care of yourselves
if any of my friends see this (you know who you are)
please dont take offence. i havnt done this to diss you, or to judge you, ive simply done it coz im concerned and i care about you, and im sure other people out there are in the same situation as me and you. so dont worry , you'll all be alright, just take care of yourselves
Strawberry_lovemuffin
Bluelighter
HaRdCoRe_ViBeS said:
worth listening to someone who's been there....
Dirty_Deed
Bluelighter
Fark...People are still posting replies to this!!
First of all, I'd like to apologise for my past bitterness to this scene. I can tell ya it wasn't really my own personal experiences that led me to such anger, more so seeing a large proportion of people around me fucking up on crystal meth. At the moment, I have one good friend who for a long while was just a weekend user, much like most of the ppl on BL who use this substance. Not too recently though, he has fallen into a pretty major addiction. There is no point demonising this drug however, and I believe that later down the track, people are going to realise exactly how detrimental it is. I have to be honest first up, and say that I have been doing meth again, once or twice a fortnight. I learned, yes, you can control it, but I also realised, I am still addicted. Though, I am considering giving it up all together because it has no pleasant effects on me anymore. I find I just sit around, zonked, having a deep and meaningful with myself. In other words, it just makes me depressed. I find alot of other ex-heavy users who still do the occasional hit, have the same problem with it. I guess, in the end, what I am trying to say is...Eventually, doesn't matter if you are a shabs junkie or not...It's gonna lose it's appeal to the individual...But if one continues to imbibe it on a regular basis when it has got to this stage, then when will they be able to realise what is happening to them anymore? Will the depression lead them to stop, or are they going to do more and more in the false hope that it will numb these feelings? I don't really have much anger for anything these days, so I can't be bothered giving a lecture. I just hope people will be able to make rational decisions in their life, and god willing, hope that they do not hurt friends and loved ones around them......
Peace Out
Dirty Deed
First of all, I'd like to apologise for my past bitterness to this scene. I can tell ya it wasn't really my own personal experiences that led me to such anger, more so seeing a large proportion of people around me fucking up on crystal meth. At the moment, I have one good friend who for a long while was just a weekend user, much like most of the ppl on BL who use this substance. Not too recently though, he has fallen into a pretty major addiction. There is no point demonising this drug however, and I believe that later down the track, people are going to realise exactly how detrimental it is. I have to be honest first up, and say that I have been doing meth again, once or twice a fortnight. I learned, yes, you can control it, but I also realised, I am still addicted. Though, I am considering giving it up all together because it has no pleasant effects on me anymore. I find I just sit around, zonked, having a deep and meaningful with myself. In other words, it just makes me depressed. I find alot of other ex-heavy users who still do the occasional hit, have the same problem with it. I guess, in the end, what I am trying to say is...Eventually, doesn't matter if you are a shabs junkie or not...It's gonna lose it's appeal to the individual...But if one continues to imbibe it on a regular basis when it has got to this stage, then when will they be able to realise what is happening to them anymore? Will the depression lead them to stop, or are they going to do more and more in the false hope that it will numb these feelings? I don't really have much anger for anything these days, so I can't be bothered giving a lecture. I just hope people will be able to make rational decisions in their life, and god willing, hope that they do not hurt friends and loved ones around them......
Peace Out
Dirty Deed