Ice: is it worth the high?

[Timmmmmy]

Pill Piglet: your'e right. it definitely has the potential to be the most insidious (intoxicating) substance known to man, and should be approached thusly. from the sounds of it speed should have been sufficient for you and your friends, and, without generalising, it also sounds like youre friends could get themselves into lots of trouble with this stuff.
not to come across as patronising, but meth of this quality is ideally for connisseurs. i know people who have access to both, with purposes not dissimilar to your own, who prefer the "dirtier" feel of speed. i think this is a good thing. these same people often complain this stuff is weak in comparison. how wrong they are. the stuff has been around long enough, but its only been recently, ie the last four or five years that it has become more widespread, notably to people like your friends.

as for smoking it, i have previously stated i got little to nothing from it, so i gave it one more attempt last friday. this time i got much more noticeable affects. i would definitely say i had the definitive smoking experience. given this i still wouldn't change my previous attitude to it. after prolonged smoking i noticed a definite pattern of "diminishing returns". what i will be doing, and what i advise you to suggest to your friends, is to smoke it first, and then once you've gotten as high as you're going to get, start railing it.

as a sidenote i personally draw many parallels between smoking meth and doing bulbs. both can be awesome, but like all things, moderation is important

 

[Elicid]

Meth combined with pills have made some of the best nights of my life, there isint a better combination for a rave. Meth can be addicting sure, but in my opinion if you want to be addicted go for it! I like to take it once a month or when a rave comes up because I think its a fun substance to take once in awhile, addiction is a personal choice, one I dont want to make, so i dont.

 

[wazza]

Meth can be addicting sure, but in my opinion if you want to be addicted go for it!

Theres no need for that kind of comment on a drug board with a focus on harm minimisation. Leave that to the 'IM MORE HARDCORE THAN YOU' version web boards...

Addiction is a very serious thing and should not be taken lightly. Especially when other people may be influenced by comments made on a public board..

Thank you, please drive through.

 

[Elicid]

I dont think you understand what I just said?!

I never said I think meth addicts are cool or hardcore so i have no idea where your pulling that from?

Ill say it yet again, addiction is a choice, if you want to be an addict thats your choice, if you want to chip it every few weekends then thats another choice, its never the drug thats evil or stupid, only the user.

 

[Pill Piglet]

I disagree. From what I have seen and experienced, this drug has the power to make anyone addicted to it, even those with the strongest will power and and the smartest heads. So many people I have spoken to have thought - like you that they could control it, but before they knew it, they were hooked. And whats worse than the addiction, is the way it changes people. You are obviously very lucky to be able to keep its usage to raves. In these circumstances, yeah it inhances the pills. I've gone from doing 5 pills a night to doing just 1 pill when on Ice. But have you tried smoking it? Thats the killer. Addiction is no way a choice. Yes, a person influences their addictions, but I have not seen people on Pills or Speed the way they are on Ice. Why do you think there are more and more stories of people becoming addicted to this drug inparticular? Just have a read through this whole thread! I have now settled on just doing the 1 or 2 pills a night with a bit of wiz and I won't tempt with Ice again. Even with these other drugs, my head feels alot clearer. When you see your friends completely change in their personalities, you'll then know what Ice really is. To answer this threads subject, Ice: Is it worth the high... simple answer: not in the long run.

P.S. Thank you for your comments Timmmy.

 

[BigTrancer]

even those with the strongest will power and and the smartest heads. So many people I have spoken to have thought - like you that they could control it, but before they knew it, they were hooked.

Clearly, they were not as strong-willed or as clever as you/they thought, or they decided that it was worth being addicted for one more hit. It's a personal choice, the drug didn't make them do it.

Why do you think there are more and more stories of people becoming addicted to this drug inparticular?

Because they underestimate their own lack of self-control in the face of a powerful euphoric high. They made the personal choice to take meth, repeatedly. They made the personal choice because they wanted to get soooo fucking high, so often, that they lost sight of the consequences.

I really do see what you're trying to say - and despite all best intentions, some people do become addicted to certain drugs. Do you think someone starts out to become an addict? No. But, it's not the fault of the drugs - they don't fly in from the black market and put themselves into your body. It is solely the fault of the person for putting themselves in that position.

Maybe they didn't realise the drugs felt so good. Maybe they thought they could stop whenever they wanted. Maybe they don't think they are addicted anyway. Maybe they think that they're in control when really their life is suffering. Maybe they're willing to trade their former life for their new life in which the drug is the focus. It all comes down to personal choices.

A lot of people make real bad fucking choices in ther lives, which affect them and the people they know negatively; that's their human right. There are laws to protect people from making these kinds of choices, but they break the law to do so. There are police out there to arrest people for making these choices, and criminal convictions and jail time to deter people from making these choices, but they continue to do so. There are health risks and serious drug dependency issues that should deter people from making these choices, but they continue to do so. In the face of all the reasons why NOT to make these choices, people do so - because they think that it won't happen to them, or because they're in control, or they can handle it, or any other reason. The fact of the matter remains that it's their choice, and nobody in the world can stop them from making it. So they have to live with the consequences, and they have Nobody and Nothing else to blame but themselves.

BigTrancer

PS: Addiction is not fate, and it doesn't have to be an end to the story. Addiction to drugs can be beaten, but it takes a personal choice and a good deal of hard work to break out, and it takes a lot of courage to admit one has a problem, again another choice.

 

[SteveElektro]

^^And that is why real education, as opposed to this "ice is bad mmkay" mentality pervading this thread, is the way to go.

 

[Timmmmmy]

and for fucks sake, its METH not ice!

well said BT and Steve. what it comes down to is if you can't handle your stuff you shouldn't be doing it. to his credit Pill Piglet has realised this early on. well done! and as for those who claim "but its sooo potent", well, i have about as much sympathy for these people as i do for people who G out using concentrate, knowing full well the dose curve. for fucks sake. if its too strong, CUT IT DOWN! the same goes for G! its VERY hard to G out drinking diluted concentrate. you have to really try, and even then sometimes its elusive (neither Timmmmmy nor BL condones trying to G out)

 

[Lockyer]

addiction is a choice, if you want to be an addict thats your choice, if you want to chip it every few weekends then thats another choice

Firstly, I think the whole problem with 'addiction' is that it over-rides most, if not all, 'choice' for the addict. Have you ever seen a heroin junkie lying in the street? Do you think they CHOOSE to be like that? Walk into an RSL, casino or sports club and look at the people who sit playing pokies (with a 13% vig) for anywhere up to 16 hours a day. Do you think THEY choose that life? I don't. It's addiction, pure and simple.

Oh sure, they made the initial choice way back when, and sure, they might have been naive and irresponsible to take those first few hits, make those first few bets or smoke those first few points of meth. But the addiction has them now.

its never the drug thats evil

I have never tried heroin, but from what I have seen, I would argue it is evil, as in the negative effects from use outweigh any positives.

I have seen what meth/ice has done to a number of my friends in the space of a few months, and I would argue that both are evil (not to say that there aren't those who can handle it without losing the plot - I'm sure there are - I just haven't seen any, yet I've met heaps and known some that are now clinically insane, purely from meth/ice use).

Being exposed to rampant ice/meth use in Adelaide completely changed my views on individual liberty and my views on illicit drug use. I used to be committed to the idea of individual choice, but seeing what ice has done to some of my friends (one in particular is facing a LONG road if he is ever going to regain his sanity) I no longer think the vast majority of human beings have the maturity or intelligence to know what's best for them. The first time I saw a 16-year-old girl snort 8pts of ice at a recovery, I was horrified. By the time I left Adelaide, I'd seen such occurences so often, they no longer horrified me (a fact which is, in itself, horrifying).

Now that I think of it, I would classify all drugs as 'evil', in that they all have negative effects. It's up to you and I to determine whether what we have to gain from their use outweighs what we have to lose. I'm with Dirty_Deed on this one, ice simply isn't worth it.

 

[missing_one]

First ice experience (also posted to first time)

This weekend I tried ice for the first time. snorting a very small quantity. I had had some speed and e earlier on, and was mainly chilling out. The ice basically gave me nothing on top of speed, and i did not perceive it to enhance or modify the effects of the mdma. This may have been due to the environment.

Later on I went out, and started hallucinating, seeing writing in textured surfaces (cloth materials, rocks, etc.) That was merely interesting at the time, but now I find it unsettling. I will not be having it again. Perhaps someone would like to describe the effects of a 'good', purely ice experience, to explain the 'point' of this drug.

 

[Timmmmmy]

a) Missing_One: i think its fair to assume you had METH not ice! as for positive effects of it, thye have been describved in previously in this thread
b)

Have you ever seen a heroin junkie lying in the street? Do you think they CHOOSE to be like that?

yes. they had three choices, to consume the substance in moderation, to not consume it at all, or to consume it irrepsonsibly. if they're lying in the street its fair to generalise that they made the choice. no one made them put the needle in their arm.

 

[shoe]

hmm. Meth. Extremely addictive and.. readily available (these days). A very bad combo.
A year or two ago, this drug was viewed as being too 'hardcore' a drug and its use was frowned upon by my social circle (well, besides me). During the past 6 months, my friends have discovered this drug. Now they use it every weekend, and, a few of them moreso. It is worrying to me seeing them slowly increasing their intake, when I know how bad a meth addiction can be and how easily this can happen. I am currently watching one of my freinds spiral dangerously close to addiction. I do preach to them (I don't really like to preach but I believe drug education is important to any user), but, I think the majority of the time I'm not taken that seriously. The reply to "where did you find that out?" "I read it on the internet" normally doesn't help convince people

The main problem really is a general lack of knowledge in the drug-taking community about the drugs they are taking. I also believe that drugs are taken too lightly/not respected enough. I think the power of denial is also at play. People tend to convince themselves (possibly subconsciously) that THEY will not get addicted, only admitting addiction to themselves when they realise they NEED the drug and find they cannot not take it. Why denial lets us get to this point in addiction i'm not really sure; maybe it is the point where you can't just ignore it anymore. Who really knows. Humans are strange creatures.

I'm also in the camp that believes it is the user, not the drug. Anyone who can sit there and look you in the eye and say that meth (or insert any other drug) is evil because it MADE them become addicted is also suffering from a case of denial. You self-administered the drug to yourself enough for you to develop an addiction to said drug WHEN YOU KNEW IT WAS ADDICTIVE. End of story.


Do I think meth is worth it? Well, I believe meth is worth using in moderation (as all drugs), but if you can't control your usage then I would suggest a serious reevaluation to your meth use. I think it is NOT worth being addicted to.

 

[redhed]

I have actually tried both drugs as a matter of fact. I did heroin for a fair while (not injecting though, smoking) and I found smoking Ice far more addictive than smoking heroin. And I am more predisposed to downers due to my love of weed. You may be able to control it, but for every you, there are ten other cunts who are acting the fool. It ain't worth having a drug on the scene that just divides ppl in society. If you look at the bigger picture, it seems to be doing more harm than good in the overall outcome.
I personally can't say I was REALLY hooked because I just got over it. I don't like uppers anymore really, they just lost their magic.

anyhoo...it's still new around here, and it doesn't look good so far...what about down the road??/

Paece Out

Dirty Deed

Totally!! I too was addicted to smoking heroin for at least 2 years - i cant even remember what it was that i enjoyed about heroin.
I gave up heroin, and now my drug use is very very minimal. However, when i first tried ice, i was amazed that i could just sit there and happily smoke it all night. It made me aggressive and impatient over the next few sessions with the crackpipe. A couple of weeks ago, i had a bad experience of paranoia while under the influence (i had smoked quite a substantial amount over the weekend), and that scared me into putting away the crackie for good.
Both drugs are very similar in their psychological hold on you.

 

[banana_man]

My $0.02

I have been going out for well over 4 years now in varying frequencies from once every 3 months to every week.
Now over that time I have mostly had pills but as they started to do less for me (I wasnt comfortable having more) I moved to speed, then good speed, then that putty stuff. Now when I go out I have been smoking a bit of ice/meth.

The main difference I notice with ice/meth is the down time. I only ever have 1/2 point a night. After the come down from ice/meth I often sleep for almost 2 days straight, recover for a day or so then take a day off work so that I can sleep again..I have never had this with anything else, it just seems to take so much more out of you.

Anyone else noticed this ??

 

[number86]

Nowadays it's depressing to see all these sub18/17 yr olds becoming lil mindless high chasers.

There is nothing mindless about chasing a high. I'm doing it right now. (Oh, wait, now I see your point.)

 

[Trillian]

The main difference I notice with ice/meth is the down time...it just seems to take so much more out of you. Anyone else noticed this ??

Yup, most definately. Every comedown seems worse than the last, and i have no clue as to why it seems to have such a cumulative effect. I spent a section of last year using fairly heavily, ie, every weekend and occasionally on a weekday, but that was only for around a 2 month period. Since the begging of this year, i've used meth around once a month on average, but nowdays, everytime the comedown seems worse than i remember it ever having been.

Maybe there's certain things missing from my pre/post loading schedule. Or maybe it's just selective memory, and i'm blocking out the worst aspects of my last comedown, so i can rationalise having a toke when the pipe is inevitably offered. (the latter being more likely). Or actually what's most likely is that it's my mind and body trying to tell me that i've taken everything i can from this substance. But i'm hoping that's not the case, because my occasional forays into tweakville are always such pleasant experiences.

Has anyone experienced anything like this (cumulative effect), and found a way to avoid it? How do you minimise your meth comedown?

 

[BigTrancer]

but nowdays, everytime the comedown seems worse than i remember it ever having been

Sometimes, the explanation can be as simple as 'the honeymoon is over'... quite often with a lot of drugs the highs outweigh the comedowns for ages before you really start to hate the negative effects. I don't attribute this to physical tolerance at all, but rather a loss of novelty. Maybe this is not the case for you, but if the comedowns seem worse in relation to the high, then it might be a possibility.

BigTrancer

 

[ebay]

People have weaknesses for different things and different things have stronger pulls than others.

Ice is highly addictive mentally and of course dealers are going to use this to make money cos that's their job. Duh.

Drug use goes in cycles or fads and when a drug like ice has its day there will be lots of fans but what can you do. You can't start a vigilante death squad and say "stop, yeah, you with the pipe" then shoot them. All you can do is educate people and give them the truth, nothing more, nothing less so they can decide what's best for them by themselves cos that's what they will do anyway.

So I guess this thread is good in putting across the point that ice is highly addictive and causes major mental problems but the news papers are all doing that anyway.

Ice is Aussie crack, go Aussie go, go, go!

 

[atomica]

okay, my experiences with crystal meth (ice) (and my husbands):

when we started getting some of the crystal coming thru, we were excited. we smoked it, we snorted it, we ate it. he found the high euphoric but not physical. i thought it was too subtle. we ended up doing a lot more than we should have, knowing how much stronger it was than the dirtier stuff. this is especially true with smoking it. no sooner have you finished one pipe, you think it would be great to have another.

for the first time ever, we had seriously negative after effects. my man was getting bad breathing problems afterwards, which i think is an anxiety reaction - he gets really short of breath and cant quite catch his breath which is really scary. and every time we tried doing this stuff, he would end up with this breathing thing, and he's *never* had lasting negative effects from any drugs before (in 8yrs of partying). i have also had stronger mood after effects, anxiety depression and grumpiness.

so though we dont party much now, we are in abstinence mode for a longish while, we will probably not be opting for much "ice", or will choose to mix it with some lower grade meth. the powerful aftereffects are just not worth it.

the message is not just to moderate, but know your limits. this was enough of a message for us to know where ours are.

 

[cooker]

definately very powerful stuff. tis everywhere i think soon in epidemic proportions. its danger is the ability to get by and get things done... its as if you can keep going to work and so on so you just stay on for days and days and so on...... then comes the paranoia, the black rings...

i think it is worth the high however perhaps certain people maybe most should stay away from its powerful addictive capacity