• BASIC DRUG
    DISCUSSION
    Welcome to Bluelight!
    Posting Rules Bluelight Rules
    Benzo Chart Opioids Chart
    Drug Terms Need Help??
    Drugs 101 Brain & Addiction
    Tired of your habit? Struggling to cope?
    Want to regain control or get sober?
    Visit our Recovery Support Forums
  • BDD Moderators: Keif’ Richards

Opioids I want to use opioids but I'm on suboxone

DeathIndustrial88 said:
Yeah I bet there isn't anything spectacular about shooting Subutex like so many people claim. Buprenorphine takes awhile to bind to the receptor anyway, so it's not like it will be instantaneous anyway. And injecting it with naloxone is basically gonna feel the same way. Hell I even wonder if the short blast of naloxone from Suboxone actually sensitizes your receptors a little right before the bupe attaches, sort of like how people use low dose antagonists to stifle their tolerance a bit.

The naloxone thing was just a gimmick so that the company could push the governments & medical professionals to think their product was "safer" and "less abuseable" than Subutex, thus profit for them.

Shooting Subs is worse though but mostly because of all the cancerous & gross ingredients they put into the strips, like the flavorings & citric acid & such.

People also seek out Subutex because they think the naloxone causes precipitated withdrawals, but it's the buprenorphine itself that does that. So taking bupe in any form is gonna give you WD's if you're already on a full agonist.

Definitely a lot of misinformation & myths surrounding buprenorphine out there, definitely!
Click to expand...
Thats absolutley correct. Its the super that knocks full antagonist off receptors. I had it happen to me. I precipitated off Subutex. It was awful. Just awful.
 
Zopiclone bandit said:
when did you see Midsommer?
I caught it on Film 4 s the first UK TV showing, I went into it knowing nothing about it & all the people deeply horrified by it.th
I sat there at the end of it in shock, my tea had gone cold, the scene where the old people jump shocked me & "The Bear Burning" will never leave me.

I am NEVER taking any mushrooms with Swedish people.

How did you learn about Monos? That movie isn't well known & very "underground cult cinema" to say the least.
Click to expand...
Brother it's literally a movie made by a Jewish producer to make the Swedish pagan culture and their rituals look bad.

If there's any people you should take mushrooms with, it's the Swedes.

Thank you for the link to Rein deer spotting though! Will check it out tomorrow, been looking forward to it.
 
Cuncefuct said:
Hey fellow blueys!
I'm a former heroin addict and I've been on suboxone for the past 3 years now. I'm currently on 12mg down from 24mg and I live in Australia. The only reason that is relevant is because the way the suboxone program works here is you start off having to go to the chemist everyday to recieve your dose and they have to supervise you taking it. After a month or so of that, they only have to supervise one dose and give you 6 "take aways" and you onlg have to go weekly. I'm currently sitting on a cache of 14 × 20mg of Targin (oxycodone 20mg/naloxone 10mg) and I want to experience that warmth again.

During the weeks after my supervised dose I have been tapering my dose down to 2-4mg a day (excluding the one day a week i have to go to the chemist). I'm well aware of buprenorphines binding affinity is stronger than naloxones, and it can take anywhere from 72 hours to a over week to completely clear your system of suboxone, also depending on the variables of metabolism and amount of time on suboxone. Last time I tried this I took 320mg of oxy, 360mg of codeine with some tarpentadol after waiting three days after my dose and it wasn't very noticeable and wasn't worth the withdrawal, but I also didn't taper my bupe down beforehand. But now I have 280mg of oxy and I want to make the most of them, so my plan is to keep my dose below 2mg during those 6 days before I go back to the chemist and see how that goes.

Does anyone have any advice on how I could best go about this? I know a fair bit about suboxone given how long I've been on it and how much I frequent this site, but I still have a lot more to learn. Is there any way this could be done or should I just come off the bupe? Or maybe even switch to Methadone?

Thank you all for any and all input, and stay safe out there. xo
Click to expand...
So part of this is TLDR but I have been using opiates for a long time used to do hwroin I now do fetty but anyways jusy to answer your question the last time I went to the ER when I broke my foot I was in subs and the doctor told me he said this he said if yohr in suboxone you can use opiates it just needs to be a higher dose way higher than what your suboxone is so yes you can use opiates while in suboxone im not on subs anymore but thats what I was told by a ER DOC.
 
I admit, I haven't got around to watching Reindeerspotting but events surrounding the writer/director & the lead actor after the film appeared to go off the rails somewhat.

I have noted that Finland is the only nation on earth where buprenorphine is the opiate most commonly found in cases of fatal drug intoxication:


It seems Finland began to use buprenorphine to treat opioid dependence in 2002 and might be one of the few nations HR workers in Europe and North America can look at to see a situation in which it's possible to argue that a miricle cure got huge investment but it's not quite as clear cut than we might hope.
 
@xXTheGrimOneXx - I think we have reasonably covered the use of buprenorphine. My only other rhought on the compound is that it is synthetically quite complex. I can roughly work out how much the stuff should cost in bulk. Now here is the odd thing. The US imported by far the most per capita (345Kg) but also paid just $6,238/Kg. European nations appear to pay $25000/Kg and for some odd reason Russia and Japan both payed $125,000/Kg.

For a long time I've been reading of pain patients in the US being prescribed methadone linctus [QD]. I would even mention that for pain, methadone should be taken [BID] or even [TID] and the response was always the same, to whit 'it's SOME relief and all I can get' so I have a hypothesis that medadone or buprenorphine [QD] is somehow exempt to DEA 'war on clinicians' and pharmacutical companies' are now siimply adjusting to a significantly difference market place.

I did check and the US does not appear to import of export methadone but I'm pretty sure that nobody has any on-patient products that contain methadone i.e. nobody is getting rich from providing it in some bizarre format... unlike buprenorphine formulations. Methadone is less potent but is more like $350/Kg so not likely to attract taxation based on profit.
 
Keif' Richards said:
@nepalnt21

We are discussing a couple of different scenarios here.

For a person with a history of moderate-heavy Opioid usage, Buprenorphine is much different than it might be for an individual with little to no experience with Opioids.

Buprenorphine is often cited as similar in euphoria to other Opioids like Oxycodone, provided the user is not heavily experienced. There is an excellent documentary called "Reindeer Spotting". It takes place in Northern Finland. In this specific ecosystem, Subutex (Buprenorphine w/o Naloxone) was the only Opioid available. There was a brisk illegal trade solely in Buprenorphine, Benzodiazepines and Amphetamines. Buprenorphine was the DOC for all users in the documentary and they would use these other substances peripherally.

So, there is no doubt that Buprenorphine is a powerful Opioid capable of provoking euphoria and indeed creating an entire underground sub-culture surrounding its usage.

When we talk about individuals tolerant to Buprenorphine, say, using it on a regular basis to treat addiction to other Opioids, it is generally quite illusive for these individuals to use other Opioids and be able to "enjoy" them. To use an analogy, I would describe it as trying to touch a sharp pin with numb hands; you feel something, you know it's sharp, but no matter how you adjust your fingertips, you can't quite feel it and you know you can't feel it.
Click to expand...
I finally took your advice and went on buprenorphine. I don’t know if you remember us speaking about a year ago. I just relapsed on oxycodone. I took 7.5 mg and I’m not feeling much and I am stable on 1 mg of buprenorphine twice a day. I took that oxycodone about an hour ago and my evening dose of buprenorphine is coming up in the next hour or so. Will I be able to take my evening buprenorphine dose or will it send me to precipitated withdrawal from what I understand it will not since my receptors are probably mostly saturated with the buprenorphine since I’ve been on it for about three months now, let me know please would appreciate a quick response from anybody thank you.
 
Hey @pnillyg you should be totally fine. If there were going to be any kind of rebound effects from such a small, transient dose of a full agonist like Oxycodone whilst already tolerant to and dependent upon Buprenorphine, they would likely be imperceptible if at all present.

I´m very sorry @pnillyg I remember we went back and forth a few times regarding the Buprenorphine but I lost track of you. I am glad you´re on it. It´s normal to be curious and have small slips like this early in your recovery journey. Just be mindful of what this experience taught you. Was it worth it? Did taking the Oxycodone give you anything that you desired? I´m guessing the answer is no.

We have to fight back against the most reptilian aspects of our neurology when it comes to addiction. A lot of us continue using Opioids long after the positive effects have essentially ceased or become imperceptible. This is largely because our earlier experiences with Opioids have also conditioned higher, executive levels of our consciousness i.e. the thought process of ¨Opioids always made me feel better before; they always made me forget about my problems; logic and reason would dictate that taking Opioids now will make my problems go away¨; that sort of thing.

As my sponsor says in the program ¨play the tape all the way through¨. Don´t just watch the first five minutes and leave the theater. Previews can make a movie seem pretty fucking cool and then you sit down for another 2 hour Marvel feature about a flying robot who shoots laser beams out of his hands; in other words, the same old shit.
 
Keif' Richards said:
Hey @pnillyg you should be totally fine. If there were going to be any kind of rebound effects from such a small, transient dose of a full agonist like Oxycodone whilst already tolerant to and dependent upon Buprenorphine, they would likely be imperceptible if at all present.

I´m very sorry @pnillyg I remember we went back and forth a few times regarding the Buprenorphine but I lost track of you. I am glad you´re on it. It´s normal to be curious and have small slips like this early in your recovery journey. Just be mindful of what this experience taught you. Was it worth it? Did taking the Oxycodone give you anything that you desired? I´m guessing the answer is no.

We have to fight back against the most reptilian aspects of our neurology when it comes to addiction. A lot of us continue using Opioids long after the positive effects have essentially ceased or become imperceptible. This is largely because our earlier experiences with Opioids have also conditioned higher, executive levels of our consciousness i.e. the thought process of ¨Opioids always made me feel better before; they always made me forget about my problems; logic and reason would dictate that taking Opioids now will make my problems go away¨; that sort of thing.

As my sponsor says in the program ¨play the tape all the way through¨. Don´t just watch the first five minutes and leave the theater. Previews can make a movie seem pretty fucking cool and then you sit down for another 2 hour Marvel feature about a flying robot who shoots laser beams out of his hands; in other words, the same old shit.
Click to expand...
It actually did give me some euphoria because I ended up taking about 45 mg. Now I’m wondering if I should wait and maybe take a little more to get me through today then go to the meeting tonight knock out and then take another dose tomorrow morning so there’s at least 18 hours in between the I’m assuming what will be up to 60 mg what do you think about that or should I just take my bub soon and get back on track? I’m just really worried about the pre-sip because I did get high and it was only about eight hours ago my last 15 mg dose.
 
@pnillyg see I already know your goals in life, so Im gonna give you the straight dope here, pun absolutely intended.

Im an addict too man. I have made decisions in the past that sacrificed my stability and ultimately put me on a path to harsh consequences.

Every decision has a ripple in your life. You have no idea at the time, that taking Oxycodone just once would lead to a complete relapse, either sooner or later.

Dont fall for the mentality of "just this time". We are addicts. "Just this time" is minimizing it. If youre stable and life is decent, I would not look for trouble.

If I were you, id stop using the Oxycodone, take your Buprenorphine and move on from it.

You are on a relatively low dose of Bupreborphine and a single day of moderate Oxycodone usage should not be enough to cause a precipitated withdrawal syndrome.

You're one arm in and one arm out right now. The bullshit comes when you go all the way in, then all the way out, say, using Oxycodone for 3-4 days straight without any Buprenorphine.

I cant make guarantees but I highly believe you will be totally fine restarting the Buprenorphine.

Good work my man. Ol' Man Keif, senile and no longer fuckable, is pleased 😀
 
Keif' Richards said:
@pnillyg see I already know your goals in life, so Im gonna give you the straight dope here, pun absolutely intended.

Im an addict too man. I have made decisions in the past that sacrificed my stability and ultimately put me on a path to harsh consequences.

Every decision has a ripple in your life. You have no idea at the time, that taking Oxycodone just once would lead to a complete relapse, either sooner or later.

Dont fall for the mentality of "just this time". We are addicts. "Just this time" is minimizing it. If youre stable and life is decent, I would not look for trouble.

If I were you, id stop using the Oxycodone, take your Buprenorphine and move on from it.

You are on a relatively low dose of Bupreborphine and a single day of moderate Oxycodone usage should not be enough to cause a precipitated withdrawal syndrome.

You're one arm in and one arm out right now. The bullshit comes when you go all the way in, then all the way out, say, using Oxycodone for 3-4 days straight without any Buprenorphine.

I cant make guarantees but I highly believe you will be totally fine restarting the Buprenorphine.

Good work my man. Ol' Man Keif, senile and no longer fuckable, is pleased 😀
Click to expand...
thanks! Starting .25mg buprenorphine after 2 days of oxy. Hoping I’ll be good. We shall see
 
Speaking from multiple rl peoples experience, you CAN get high even like 6-8 hours after taking Suboxone (or methadone) but you will probably need decently strong fentanyl.

Bupe has a higher affinity, but fentanyl is so powerful you don't need it to activate that many opiates receptors to go from "not sick" to high. So you kind of just have to do a big dose of fentanyl after letting the bup wear off a little, and a few receptors won't be filled or the Fentanyl will replace some of the Suboxone. It's wasteful, maybe 40-90% of fentanyl won't work and you need to account for that when figuring out your dose (the longer you wait after taking the Suboxone the better) but it does work. I would only try it with fentanyl though, maybe IV heroin, but you'll spend a fortune trying to do it with pills!
 
Thanks @tibberous You're a man after my own heart. What you have said is true and accurate. However, I don't think we need to be talking about breaking through Buprenorphine using Fentanyl given the context of our friend's situation.

Smart man @pnillyg The student has become the master. Mini-Kudos to you my friend. Starting at a lower dose with Buprenorphine when attempting reinduction is always recommended. There is no good reason to rush the process.

If you mess up your timing lower Buprenorphine dose = less severe precipitated withdrawal.

Good man. Let us all know when you have a moment. Your two days of usage following reinduction would be valuable reference material for others!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top