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HPPD, should one continue to use psychedelics if he/she is not bothered by symptoms?

al-laddin said:
Hello ladies and gents,

Hi Im brand new around here but have been a long time lurker and feel that this is a great sight to get information. Anyway Ive been using psychedelcis for 18 years roughly, with a four year gap due to a horrific LSD experience on 500ug-700ug. This trip lead to some sort of PTSD, HPPD and DP/DR. That trip definitely scarred me for life and changed me forever. In some ways the changes were for the better but the horror I experienced was traumatic and there are were definitely some long lasting negative effects. This happened when I was 16 and caused me to cease all drug use with the exception of alcohol. Four years later I decided to try a light psilocybin trip, which seemed to release me from the anxiety I had been living with since the bad experience. This lead to many trips on mushrooms and one or two more LSD trips. I also played with mescaline cacti a handful of times.

Recently I ended up trying 25c-nbome which resulted in a pretty bad psychotic reaction, which I successfully aborted with 1mg alprazolam. However, the trip on this nbome was initially very enjoyable. This was followed up by a few more fun and relatively low dose LSD experiences. Now I must say that one of or both 25c and LSD seemed to have exacerbated my HPPD symptoms. I have tripped on mushrooms many times before this with no problems. Now Im not saying that my vision is like Im peaking on an acid trip but its definitely slightly annoying and distracting at times. I have verified with one other fellow who suffers from HPPD and still uses psychsedelics, that tryptamines, or more specifically psilocybin has never made his vision noticeably worse but phenethylamines and LSD especially have.

Ive tried asking this question on other forums with zero results, but from what I have seen Bluelight is at the top echelon regarding substances and I feel that I will receive some great and realistic advice here. Bottom line , Im willing to live with the level of HPPD that I have but I don't know if I could handle live in a full blown acid world. Im also a bit concerned about the possibility of cognitive damage from psychedelic use. It seems as though theres very little to support the claim that psychedelics cause cognitive damage but I have noticed a change in the way I tghink , for the better; I am far more creative post LSD use. What I would like out of this post is to know if I should cease psychedelic use all together.


Does anyone out there have HPPD that can be compared to a full blown trip? Ive noticed that all the HPPD cases I know of is fairly mild visual disturbances but many of the individuals suffer from massive anxiety and depression co-morbidly .

So in the spirit of harm reduction, DO any of you guys out there have any info regarding this? Some anecdotal experiences or even semi researched info? Thank you so much.
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Oh yes, back to the original topic, sorry for going a little too deep into the triangles... always in training ;).

Comments are closed on LINK Dr. Abraham's website but I think it might have some information that would interest you.
 
Synaps3 said:
I'd stay away from the phens (with maybe an exception of 2c-e and mescaline). All the other ones are shallow as shit and not for someone who is seeking a valuable "experience" other than getting high and there are other things for that. The phens are basically psychedelic cocaine in my opinion. Pleases your ego with orgasmic feelings and visuals, but mentally you are not going anywhere and gaining any valuable spiritual growth.

Phenethylamines = Lust
Tryptamines = Real Love

And there's a pharmacological reason for that: Phens release dopamine and Trypts only serotonin.

Why am I so passionately against them?
Had a friend a few years ago who was in rehab many times for them.
Had a couple bad experiences on 2ci.
They can cause visual problems.
They are shallow in a nasty dirty feeling way - feels evil to me, but obviously that's highly subjective.

To respond to your original question. I have found through personal experience that phenethylamines do cause more long term visual problems. I've had only 4 trips on them (my first) and have had tracers ever since - it's been at least 2 years. I've done 4-aco and mushrooms many times (maybe 10-20) and have not found it to effect my vision much other than seeing afterimages persist a little longer after looking at a bright light, etc. It's been about a half year since the last time I took any psychedelic and only the tracers are still there.
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I've had visuals outside trips ever since I tried LSD the first time over two years ago; however, I don't think it's HPPD, it's not debilitating by any means, just kinda weird when I"m sitting in my early Greece class or something and the fabric of reality slightly exposes itself lol.

More importantly, I disagree that all phens but 2C-E are shallow and useless; I very much enjoy LSD and mushrooms for their depth, and I hated 25i for its shallowness and toxicity yes, but having recently tried 40mg 2C-C, I really love the compound. Sure it's not as serious, but with the right set and setting it encouraged philosophical lines of thought I hadn't looked at in ages, and it honestly helped me feel more emotionally sound for the past week thus far. Just my 2C.
 
And there's a pharmacological reason for that: Phens release dopamine and Trypts only serotonin.
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That's not a generalization at all, is it... how about stuff like AMT (triple monoamine releasing tryptamine), or MDA (serotonin releasing phenethylamine)?

Some people certainly have preferences for PEAs versus tryptamines, some like it the other way around. But it's not like one class of drugs is more "privileged" than the other. You can still have a bad time and end up with HPPD if you take too much psilocin. And you can have wonderful, immersive complex psychedelic journeys from drugs like 2c-B or whatever iof the set and setting is right.

Expectation effects are really strong with psychedelics, too - if you expect to be disappointed you probably will be. You have to put in a bit of effort to make the most out of any psychedelic trip.
 
sekio said:
That's not a generalization at all, is it... how about stuff like AMT (triple monoamine releasing tryptamine), or MDA (serotonin releasing phenethylamine)?

Some people certainly have preferences for PEAs versus tryptamines, some like it the other way around. But it's not like one class of drugs is more "privileged" than the other. You can still have a bad time and end up with HPPD if you take too much psilocin. And you can have wonderful, immersive complex psychedelic journeys from drugs like 2c-B or whatever iof the set and setting is right.

Expectation effects are really strong with psychedelics, too - if you expect to be disappointed you probably will be. You have to put in a bit of effort to make the most out of any psychedelic trip.
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Yeah the difference between someone whos had a negative experience versus a positive one is this-

"Yeah I had a horrible trip and now im stuck with all this static and tracers" VS "yeah Ive got some visual artifacts but they don't bother me. I love psychedelics too much to give them up". Im basically in the latter category
 
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