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How to make LSI or Lysergic Acid Isovaleraldemide at home

Ok, thanks for clarifying. You know I've heard some wackiest stuff out there. Like some guy who claimed he could make LSD from morning glory seeds. I know morning glory seeds contain LSA, but you can't just make LSD from that. Its much more complicated.
 
Didgital said:
The only difference from "column" chromatography and flash chromatography is pressure pushing the liquid through the column so it goes quicker. That's all.
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THAT was the point I was making. TIME. Preparative chromatography certainly IS very useful but generally a small-scale experiment is carried out so that the chemist can scale up go away, do something else knowing when the product is going to be ready.

BTW when sekio uses bold face... that's as assertive as s/he gets, so you can be sure they have fact-checked the heck out of every detail.
 
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AlsoTapered said:
He's basically morally gone steeply down hill since prison. That is just 1 problem with those places, it teaches you to think of yourself and of nobody else.

About the ONLY modification I've discussed with Dave Nichols is placing a methyl at the 14 position (same spot as 7,alphe DMT. We concluded that it might increase serotonin release. We also agreed that it would be a total nightmare to make and since it was only an educated guess, their isn't much point.

The 8 position combined with different amides look like the only ways to produce subtle shades of LSD. There are still combinations as yet untested. the mono sec-butyl homologue or the (S,S) 2,4-dimehyl azetidine with different things at 8.
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The dopaminergic component of the LSD experience seems to be delayed after ingestion and is probably due to a metabolite leading to the classic biphasic LSD experience, first part constructive, second part more dysphoric, from memory the suspected metabolite is 13 hydroxy LSD and this was a theory Nichols played with. I often wondered whether metabolism at that position (on the phenyl ring) could be blocked by fluoro. Making 13 fluoro LSD is total synthesis of lysergic acid territory and a bit beyond the capabilities of the current lizard lysergamide vendors. it is doable but very tricky. assembly of a 6 fluoroindole with some functionalization of the 4 positiion, regioselective diels-alder type indole synthesis with an alkynyl nicotinic acid is probably a way to get there.
Starting from natural lysergamides there is no way to functionalize the 13 position without destroying the ergolene core, possibly there is a semisynthesis or biosythesis using an appropriate 6-fluoro tryptophan but it is not obvious.
Anyway it is an interesting speculation that 13 Fluoro LSD would be a very useful compound for therapy.

V
 
AlsoTapered said:
THAT was the point I was making. TIME. Preparative chromatography certainly IS very useful but generally a small-scale experiment is carried out so that the chemist can scale up go away, do something else knowing when the product is going to be ready.

BTW when sekio uses bold face... that's as assertive as s/he gets, so you can be sure they have fact-checked the heck out of every detail.
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flash uses finer silica so better resolution vs column gravity chromatography.
chromatography is the devils work, crystallization is the way.
 
vecktor said:
The dopaminergic component of the LSD experience seems to be delayed after ingestion and is probably due to a metabolite leading to the classic biphasic LSD experience, first part constructive, second part more dysphoric, from memory the suspected metabolite is 13 hydroxy LSD and this was a theory Nichols played with. I often wondered whether metabolism at that position (on the phenyl ring) could be blocked by fluoro. Making 13 fluoro LSD is total synthesis of lysergic acid territory and a bit beyond the capabilities of the current lizard lysergamide vendors. it is doable but very tricky. assembly of a 6 fluoroindole with some functionalization of the 4 positiion, regioselective diels-alder type indole synthesis with an alkynyl nicotinic acid is probably a way to get there.
Starting from natural lysergamides there is no way to functionalize the 13 position without destroying the ergolene core, possibly there is a semisynthesis or biosythesis using an appropriate 6-fluoro tryptophan but it is not obvious.
Anyway it is an interesting speculation that 13 Fluoro LSD would be a very useful compound for therapy.

V
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13 would be likely spot for hydroxylation - but wouldn't the LogP drop if you add a H-bond donor?
 
vecktor said:
flash uses finer silica so better resolution vs column gravity chromatography.
chromatography is the devils work, crystallization is the way.
Click to expand...

I have had to learn these techniques as part of my education although I admit that it's almost 30 years ago.

Can you get crystals if you have iso and lumo in there (in small amounts)?

Never heard of anyone not using chromatography including modern patents for drugs with closely related structures.
 
What ? No offense, but I thought LSD was purely an agonist of 5ht2 and other seratonin and had nothing to do with the D receptors or dopamine. Well, I could be wrong. Please explain.
 
MedicinalUser247 said:
What ? No offense, but I thought LSD was purely an agonist of 5ht2 and other seratonin and had nothing to do with the D receptors or dopamine. Well, I could be wrong. Please explain.
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LSD is a very dirty drug and interacts with a whole bunch of receptors
 
someguyontheinternet said:
There's no way you can get as good of separation as chromatography with just crystallization
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many process chemists would disagree.
the reason for the prevalence of chrom is that it is plug and play, it just works without having to figure anything out. however on scale it starts to be irritating, with solvent consumption etc.
chromatography free synthesis of APIs is where the real art is.
 
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AlsoTapered said:
I have had to learn these techniques as part of my education although I admit that it's almost 30 years ago.

Can you get crystals if you have iso and lumo in there (in small amounts)?

Never heard of anyone not using chromatography including modern patents for drugs with closely related structures.
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going to be careful here, recrystalisation out of methanol for the fumarate delivers what you are looking for.
 
vecktor said:
going to be careful here, recrystalisation out of methanol for the fumarate delivers what you are looking for.
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Do you mind if I ask Dave Nichols about that one? He's generally tried a LOT of routes.... but he isn't god, he doesn't know everything.

As I said before, if you can reliably get 93%, is that 7% an issue? We both know that unless stored correctly your going to end up with garbage forming along the way in any case.

nice idea, I must say. I thought the fulmarate = stable had been busted... but maybe the writer just misunderstood the value of that addition salt?
 
Like some guy who claimed he could make LSD from morning glory seeds. I know morning glory seeds contain LSA, but you can't just make LSD from that. Its much more complicated.
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You can indeed make LSD from morning glory seeds but not directly - it's a bit of a roundabout synthesis.
This period book on home LSD synthesis (with beautiful hand illustrations) actually elaborates.
You just need to isolate the LSA from the appropriate seeds (e.g. I. tricolor or A. nervosa), then hydrolyse the alkaloids to crude lysergic acid, which then presumably needs to be purified, and can be coupled with diethylamine in the usual fashion.
This, however, needs time and skill, and a proper lab.

vecktor said:
chromatography free synthesis of APIs is where the real art is.
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Truth.
Recrystallization can definitely seperate isomers if you get lucky.

fulmarate = stable
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Fulminate is not stable for obvious reasons, and making an alkaloid salt of it would be silly.
Fumarate is pretty similar to tartrate actually. I would expect there are more stable salts than just tartrate.

I am happy to see such a garbage thread converted to productive discussions.
 
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Well worth knowing. I know it's done where their are large amounts of crud but my own experience was that it takes quite a few attempts.

As I said before, while I would NOT accept 93% purity in most cases, with LSD I might be tempted to use as is. I don't think Kemp did ANY purification since the only products left were iso and lumo.

But I get why people seek perfection, especially for this molecule.

sekio said:
Truth.
Recrystallization can definitely seperate isomers if you get lucky.
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sekio said:
Given the presumed inactivity of both impurities, 93% is pretty darn good, and I would rather have that than no acid.
I mean, I'd personally be happy with "technical" LSD of 60-80%.
I'm not a big believer in substances needing to be strictly pure, just as long as the other ingredients are inactive. (e.g. a pill)
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Excipients if you will....
 
You know you can also come up with analogs that are similar to LSD, but are higher in potency. Take Lysergic Acid 2-butylamide and Lysergic Acid 2'4 Dimethylazetidide for example. Sometimes I wonder about these stronger analogs and if other stronger analogs of LSD can be developed. Considering that most analogs of LSD are weaker.
 

I used to like Casey but the stories I keep hearing about his life after 13 years 8 months 'At Her Majesty's Pleasure' and his recent itinerant lifestyle have made me think again. Caught with a vehicle full of hash, keeping the money from a fund set up for a memorial to a 'friend' who died after taking 5-MeO DMT HE supplied and pushing his then GF from a moving vehicle do not make me like the guy MORE. And that's just the stuff that's filtered through. He IS living off the infamy of having produced LSD. Not one of the many LEGAL (at the time) analogues... but actual LSD.

BUT he perfected the PyBOP methodology and you cannot help thinking 'well, TF no more hydrazine or SO3'. Someone here told me that the iso and lumo can simply be removed via selective crystalisation. If true, that would 'complete the cicrlce' as it were.

BTW the Japanese used a novel methodology when they wanted LSD with a D at the 2 position. They simply reduced BOL-148 with NaBD4. There are papers on the topic.
 
Here is a post where several of us talk about using HBWR seeds, my comments several posts down: https://www.shroomer...0&vc=1#28440282

I'm a life long chemist, it's my job to perform chemistry and research all day long for a living. I only post what works. My motive is to help others heal from addictions, pain and suffering such as depression, I've helped many to do this and it makes me happy and gives me satisfaction. I should know because I cured my own addictions and depression of seeing loved ones die. My favorite Shamanic tools for this are traditional real Ayahuasca, pan cyan mushrooms and LSI and LSD and cactus tea.

--> Go to post #1 for the complete 1 page tek with pics and easy fast steps for making LSH or LSH + LSI combo, or just plain LSI...it only takes a few minutes to prepare with a couple hours sitting in fridge, then she is ready to drink <--

And yes, I do have analysis of LSI, but I am saving that and all the details for the book. This has already gotten out, as I started writing about this over a year ago, and isovaleraldehyde has already become banned for shipment by 100% of the chemical suppliers out there last I checked. The last thing the Gov't wants is for kids to make LSI at home, it's too damn easy. You had your time to buy the stuff while it was still available, but nobody took me seriously, now it's too late. It's really ashamed as our democracy has made psychedelics illegal, even though the founders of our democracy in Greece drank the sacred Kykeon brew at Eleusis for 2,000 years every Sept like clockwork.

Other topics: Alchemy chemistry fun:

Compilation of pan cyan or panaeolus cyanescens or copeandia cyanescens trip reports, crown jewel of mushrooms:
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/28108398/page/1

How to extract 2.4g dmt from 170g bark using a 2 Liter erlenmeyer flask (heat and break resistant), post #15:
https://mycotopia.net/topic/111610-hpbcd-dmt-sublingually-active-under-tongue/

Tetrahydroharmine or THH and how to make her, Caapi visionary feminine teaching spirit:
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/28423951/page/1

Zero nausea HPBCD or aloe vera enhanced penetration Ayahuasca capsules:
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/28189371/page/1

Cactus tea before waterpark to beat the heat:
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/28411312/page/4



How to make LSI or Lysergic Acid Isovaleraldemide (Greek Eleusis ancient LSD) at home from morning glory seeds (the priests used non poisonous claviceps paspali which grows on paspalum grass adjacent to Eleusis present day in the famous Rarian plane, same alkaloid profile as the sacred Mesoamerican morning glory):
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27850299/page/2

Make your own 1-acetaldehyde LSD at home from LSD, very similar to ALD-52 or the real orange sunshine:
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/28441105

On my very first pan cyan mushroom trip, where I went to a house music club tripping with friends, I viewed laser light patterns on the floor of the club, where the women danced, I believe the mushrooms showed me how to form never before seen patterns, as went I went home, over the next several months, I built my own 6 channel audio generator that when these combined frequencies (3 on x channel and 3 on y channel) were sent to a laser x and y galvanometer, were able to produce brand new laser patterns such as collapsing circles and spinning lines 360 degrees which looked beyond belief in the fog as 3-d, I then went on to market these laser scanners to clubs on the strip, and they were a huge success...I owe this creative invention to the mushrooms which sparked new creative energies, way beyond thought, from a higher source where the mushrooms tap into. My love for house music stems back to those days of visiting many clubs as an entertainment laser lighting fixture creator and programmer and making friends with the many DJ's. Over the summer myself and friends were lifeguards at the local water park. But on the weekends we went to parties or house music clubs.

https://www.friskyradio.com/
https://jaytechmusic.podbean.com/
 
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