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How to make LSI or Lysergic Acid Isovaleraldemide at home

tregar

Bluelighter
Joined
Apr 26, 2004
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601
Original studies: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27850299/fpart/1/vc/1

I've had numerous pm's to condense the tek onto 1 page with pics, as lots of people are wanting to try this, so here it is...print this out and carry it with you and study it, it's super easy and fast I promise.

COMPLETE TEK ON HOW TO MAKE LSH and LSI combo or just LSI (your preference) on this one page with supporting studies, very simple:

Self trip with 600 seeds:
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LSI trip report made from MG seeds: on my 600 seed or 18g high dose morning glory wine extract prepared with 3 drops isovaleraldehyde and 1 teaspoon apple cider vinegar as catalyst for the aldehyde condensation onto LSA to form LSI, saw 2 hours of dancing colored geometrics, thousands upon thousands they were so intricate for 2 hours which formed completely naked women goddesses at the intersections of the geometrics, mind blowing music enhancement and euphoria, very strong trip for 6 hours with 8 hour duration. One of the most prominent visual features is the seeing of colored energy fields or auras surrounding all objects just as itbebasidia reported, I see this every time the whole trip. Very powerful shimmering and glowing of everything as well, as if there is an intense divine light inside, very beautiful. Mentally: Deep healing head space.


If you only have a few HBWR seeds, you can mix them for a few minutes with pure peppermint oil drops, see post #1 for recommendation on how many drops of pure peppermint oil to use, or just read below.

This trip report from Kash (long time LSA master) below is taken from post #3 of the beginning of this thread....keep in mind that LEMON JUICE also contains isovaleraldehyde, my best trip report using just a few HBWR was when I mixed them with fresh lemon juice from the fridge for a while, then consumed.

Do not use the cheap grocery store peppermint alcohol extract, instead buy real Peppermint oil max dosage: Adults: 0.2 to 0.4 mL (4 drops to 8 drops max for adults, DO NOT EXCEED: https://www.aafp.org/pubs/afp/issues/2007/0401/p1027.html

I still don't recommend using HBWR but it will still work to form LSI, see post #2 at very beginning of this thread: all about why this is so (MG vs HBWR seeds)...the main reason is that HBWR contains high amounts of ergometrine which causes cramping and vasoconstriction...whereas MG only has traces of it, I've used MG up to 25g and still no cramping or vasoconstriction. You can get way higher on MG seed LSI whereas with HBWR you will start to experience the somatic side effects of cramping way sooner due to the ergometrine if you are not careful on dosage, it's a balancing act with HBWR.

Psychonauts (psychedelic astronauts): you can still find isovaleraldehyde out there, you just have to look, try looking for the 25ml bottle.

Kash:
Just took a 40 seed portion of LSA extract that was mixed for 15 minutes with peppermint oil (contains 2mg acetaldehyde per 5 drops, editors note: and contains even more isovaleraldehyde) yesterday and tripped his face off with a friend. Was very clean feeling and relaxed. Rainbows and vibrant fractal energy danced all over the skies and throughout his surroundings and music sounded great. The head-space was very acid like but different. Was a bit intense but he was able to keep it together lol. Whole trip was about 8 hrs long.

I have tried a 20 seed extract without peppermint oil and it seemed uncomfortable and sedating with no visuals, while every time he has added peppermint oil he has gotten visuals.
p.s if you read post #2, you will see that ALL the best MG trip reports involved adding fresh lemon juice, examples below, this is because LEMON JUICE ALSO contains isovaleraldehyde:

vespiary:
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Having read someone's description of a cold water extraction with added lemon juice, I decided to try it one day. I've tried this method several times and will describe my best trip to date following these notes…

I've found that the ideal dose for my body weight (5'9, 200 lb.) is 30 grams of seeds. I TRIPPED HARD AS HELL.

I saw geometric patterns in everything…

It ranked up there with the best trips of my life, and that includes Mescaline, LSD, and Mushrooms. The trip lasted for about 8 hours and seemed to peak at about 3 hours. Unlike an acid trip where I peak rapidly and then come down fast, this is more like I peak slowly, level off, and then come down slow. I am always in control of my faculties.


Hermes (Lycaeum):
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With a 400 morning glory seed extract into cold distilled water with a squirt of lemon juice, I see amazing three and seemingly four-dimensional shapes morphing and bifurcating. Often I get religious and esoteric themed visuals, like fractal cherub wings and winged eyes like those in some of Alex Grey's work. Eyes are all over everything! I see pyramids and sphinxes and Gigeresque biomechanical forms. I see amazing geometric lattice structures. I watch mathematical space-filling algorithms doing their thing.

I also find that I can control the imagery by an act of will. Anything I intend to visualize comes forth and then goes beyond what I had imagined and then transforms into something else. This is great for artists! I could swear that on one occasion while listening to Mozart's Requiem, Heaven itself opened up inside my skull! It was incredible! OH, THE BEAUTY! I saw glorious celestial architecture and there were seraphs singing along with the chorus in the music. I just can't even begin to describe what this was like.

I had tears streaming down my face. I was in the highest ecstacy I have ever known. And all of this with a nothing more than a good mindset, good music, and only about 500 seeds. I'll never forget it. It was probably all in my imagination, programmed by my Catholic upbringing. I don't know and don't really care where it came from. It was the most beautiful thing I have ever experienced, and I still feel great joy when I think of it. I felt so whole!


My comment: Lemon juice also contains ISOVALERALDEHYDE just like peppermint leaf.

Hermes (lycaeum March 2003) on morning glory visuals & strength, extracted into cold distilled water with a squirt of lemon juice:
Quote:


Depending on seed quality, you should get some weak to decent effects from 8 grams, like mild reality bending, marked enhancement of aesthetic perception, insights, weak open eye visuals, moderate but subtle closed eye visuals (especially with music). I find that more satisfactory results are achieved with more seeds, like 14 grams or more. This much is needed to enter truly psychedelic territory. I wouldn't recommend this much if you haven't tried lower doses with the same seeds and method, however.

I usually just measure by Burpee bags. These are 1.8 grams each. I have used anything ranging from 3 to 12 of these. Strangely, the 12 bag trip was relatively weak. They must have been some old seeds. My strongest experience ever with MG seeds was with the Martha Stewart brand from K-Mart. I had strong effects, with good open eye visuals, on only 300 seeds! I used a cold water extraction with some added lemon juice, but the alcoholic extract by Stretchman also here at the Lycaeum I tried was the strongest.

I had strong 4D lattice-like open eye visuals and warping and melting of furniture with only 400 seeds. There are about 32-36 seeds to a gram. The Martha Stewarts are more expensive than the Burpees. They are like $1.30 a bag or something close to that for a 1.2 gram bag. The Burpees are something like $0.88 a bag and each bag has 1.8 grams. That's $2.05 a gram for Martha Stewart seeds and $0.92 a gram for Burpee seeds. It seems to be a trade off.


My comment: lemon juice contains isovalearaldehyde as well.

Nogal (the Nook):
Quote:


Yes I know of someone who tried the CWE method with the Heavenly Blue variety, except with the substitution of a coffee grinder in place of a stone metate (I think that's what is called but I could be wrong), and a squirt of lemon in the water, with around 400-500 seeds. Closed and open eyed visuals were extremely breath taking. Some of the most prominent visions were of Aztec/Mayan glyphic patterns, a menacing and demonic technicolor nymph made of light who tried to seduce the viewer, and this bizare trail of energy spheres which each contained a different stylized animal form (again definately of Aztec/Mayan origin).


My comment: lemon juice contains isovalearaldehyde as well.

dmthead420:
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Seems this does do alot more, its alot more refined, clean, less body high all mind high.. i extracted 700 riveas into 100 ml of lemon juice , 50ml water .. that sat 9hrs in the fridge(water stayed the color of lemon juice but smelled like alkaloids) i filtered and added 100ml of sherry wine and that sat 6hours..

A buddy and i sampled 12ml of this and the effect is way different from just eating the seeds or just a simple water extract..

No body feelings AT ALL, not even the normal body buzz.. just a extreme lsd like head and abstract thoughts, better sense of understanding.... Real soon i am def going to try a large dose ..I Feel GreaT...I will no longer do it any other way.....my friend says the same.


Norman, mycotopia, said on 16 September 2019:
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Years ago I stumbled across a simple method for dosing HBWR.
Grind the seeds and cover them with white wine, let sit in the fridge for a day or so, shaking occasionally, decant, filter and drink.
No nausea no aches no vasoconstriction.
I am now off alcohol completely so I’m thinking of an alternative method short of a full on extraction.
I’m convinced that something in the wine besides water and alcohol is what makes the trip so clean. I’ve tried twelve percent water alcohol mixes in the past and still had the nasty side effects and at the same time the trip is not as strong.
I’m thinking acetaldehyde and or tartaric acid may be involved or at least a good place to start.
Any thought on what chemically may be going on?


Red22:
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"This paper states tha "LSH" was identified in blood and/or urine samples in two individuals who ingested the seeds. This is interesting because Peter Webster alleges that LSH will immediately decompose when in the body. This paper indicates that that's not true.

Klinke HB, Müller IB, Steffenrud S and Dahl-Sørensen R, Two cases of lysergamide intoxication by ingestion of seeds, which resulted in one fatality due to falling from a building and one surviving witness. Forensic Sci Int, 2010, 197(1-3), e1-5. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20018470/




Easy steps, I've used this process over two dozen times in a 2 year period, it works with zero nausea:

---> You can even drink this LSH and LSI enhanced liquid extract at the same time you drop your LSD for an experience that is way beyond LSD, the LSH and LSI adds infinite dimensions to the normal LSD experience, like incredible (I mean phenomenal !) music enhancement, every sound in the music is "epic", infinite beauty enhancement, strong sensual feelings, strong neon like color saturation, flowing visuals, energy fields seen in constant motion around all objects, heavy tracers, etc. These qualities LSH and LSI adds are very similar to what cactus tea adds in my experience when added to LSD.

This is most likely due to LSH and LSI hitting 5 more adrenal recpetors associated with beauty, aesthetics and sensuality beyond normal LSD, see radioligand chart for LSH. I used this potion every time I tripped, you can even add it to cactus tea by taking drinking the LSH potion 1 hour later (always stagger 1 hour so the amides do not clash with the trace maoi's in cactus, only take in that order) it's incredible.
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--> How to make the ZERO NAUSEA morning glory wine which is used for all aldehyde experiments, example: forming LSH and LSI from the LSA in the seeds: <--

How this works, from 2022 aldehydes paper, see 1960's study by Arcamone, go to post #1 to read all the studies (5 papers). LSH and LSI do make it to the bloodstream and urine, so it does indeed reach the brain so long as you keep it in it's original state (in acidic wine so it does not decompose back to LSA which will happen in plain water or nonacidic solutions) store in fridge or freeze in freezer to keep forever, drink as so.

Pic 1: Sherry wine is the wine highest in acetaldehyde.

Pic 2: With only a lamp on in garage, no overhead bright light: grind 15 grams or 525 heavenly blue morning glory seeds in a coffee grinder (35 seeds per gram) using 10 second grind with occasional shaking of coffee grinder, pause 5 seconds, then grind again 10 seconds, repeat x 4 times, you will end up with a dust like consisteny, all the alkaloids are extracted from within the tough rubbery embryo of the seed. 525 seeds x .01mg LSA per seed = 5mg LSA

Pic 3: Place ground seed dust into a 1/2 pint tall jar (*almart case of 12, canning section), add 4 shots of cold just opened fresh sherry wine from the fridge, and around 30mg of DL tartaric acid which aids the extraction (from hi media store, *mazon, auction or similar). Do not use plain L-tartaric acid used in wine making, get the good stuff, which contains the D isomer. D-lyergic acid amide isomer salts are the potent form of salts.

And also ADD a tiny splash or 1 to 2 teaspoons of acetic acid or VINEGAR (I use apple cider vinegar) to catalyze the condensations of the aldehyde to LSA: acetaldehyde in this case onto the amide of LSA, and isovaleraldehyde to form LSI. The vinegar acts as an important catalyst as it contains acetic acid, and speeds the formation of new adduct product, see study below:

From Mehra, R.K & Panya, K.C. 1938, The condensation of aldehydes with amides - part III, the condensation of cinnamaldehyde with acetamide. Proc Natl Acad Sci India Phys Sci 7(6). 376-380

NOTE: from paper: Acetamide (very similar to LSA) when cinnamaldehyde adduct added, forms: N,N'cinnamylidenediacetamide just as LSA + isovaleraldehyde forms LSI or Lysergic Acid Isovaleraldemide. RATS RESPOND TO it as if they had been given LSD, and this human rat loves the effects, the closest thing in nature I've ever experienced that is very similar to LSD. LOVE, LOVE, LOVE !!!
:heart:
:heart:
:heart:


Cinnamaldehyde should not be used as it contains nearly twice the number of carbons and hydrogens and thus weak activity due to this (weights way too much)...only use isovaleraldehyde (weight is perfect) to form the potent LSI. However, I am showing the study so that you see an even "longer chain aldehyde than isovalearaldehyde" will even adduct onto acetamide or LSA as proven in study.

YOU WILL LOVE LSI, it is so very similar to LSD !!!





Re-seal your sherry wine by spraying wine preservation canister which has inert gas (contains argon, carbon dioxide, etc.) around ten dollars from *mazon into your wine before sealing with cork and placing back in fridge, this way the precious acetaldehyde in the wine will not oxidize to vinegar as normally happens over a 5 day period when corked without preserving.

Put lid on and shake contents for 1 to 2 minutes.

Place jar into fridge for 10 minutes after the 2 minute shaking, during this time the nauseating seed debris can be seen falling to the bottom.

Pic 4: Filter entire contents of jar thru a "coffee wire filter" from *almart or *amazon or your local grocery store sitting atop a glass, the liquid above the seed debris will filter real fast in seconds, then filter the debris at the bottom from the jar, once the debris is in basket, use a spoon to press down on it to get all the liquid out, this only takes around 10 seconds.

Pic 5: Place this filtered liquid in the fridge for 3 hours or even overnight, within 3 hours, all of the nauseating to the intestines seed debris will have fallen to the bottom. This process begins within an hour after sitting in fridge, check each hour and watch as the seed debris falls by around an inch each hour.

Pic 6: After 3 hours or longer, decant the liquid from above the bottom 1/4" of seed debris, this is what you want to consume, it is psychedelic and results in zero nausea, as there is no seed debris in it. DO NOT DRINK the SEED DEBRIS at very bottom or you will become nauseated and sick, don't worry, there are no alkaloids in it.

Note: never try to extract your seeds using just plain acidified water, I have tried this before, your seed debris will not separate out in the fridge, and you end up with a complete emulsion in the coffee wire filter which will not filter at all, wine is needed to effect the proper extraction, and allows the liquid to separate from the seed emulsion below, this will not happen with a plane water extration. This is how the ancient Aztec and Mayan extracted the seeds using balche, an alcohol they made themselves, see 2nd pic.

Rest of the pics:

sources of isovaleraldehyde: pure chemical (on line 25ml bottle) or you can use fresh lemon juice or pure peppermint oil, I prefer to use the pure chemical.

Use ice bath on your stirrer to keep wine as a combo of LSH + LSI (as LSH adduct acetaldehyde boils off at room temp, so always keep cold, to form LSI only, omit the ice bath, as LSI does not boil off till 198 degree F).

All the alkaloids are concentrated in the fridge decanted liquid above the seed debris. This contains your LSA which has adducted to the acetaldehyde in the wine, forming new amounts of LSH, since the wine is at ph=4, the new LSH adduct product will remain stable indefinately, store in fridge if you plan to use within a few days, or you can freeze and de-thaw in fridge overnight to use next day. It dethaws fast since it is wine.

You just formed LSH using the method above, to form LSI, simply take your 4 shot morning glory wine, and at this point add your 3 drops of isovaleraldehyde along with 1 to 2 teaspoons apple cider vinegar (if you don't have the pure chemical then add teaspoon or more of lemon juice, or several drops of pure peppermint oil) to form new molecule similar to LSD in every way. Be sure to spin for around 1 hour at high speed. I always use the pure chemical as I have it. Don't forget to add the apple cider vinegar as it contains the acetic acid catalyst which speeds up the adduct chemical reaction.




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References: Lysergic acid Isovaleraldemide, LSI

The aldehyde in peppermint oil and leaf and lemon juice is Isovaleraldehyde otherwise known as 3-methylbutanal. If you are a business or researcher you can order it directly, there are also two places that sell direct to individuals, just google it. They delivered it straight to my door, one place starts with a "*******" All you need to add is two drops of this to your LSA sherry wine liquid extract as it spins on the stir mantel for 1 hour at high speed, also must add 1 teaspoon of either vinegar or apple cider vinegar (my preference), as the acetic acid in the vinegar is the catalyst for the condensation of the isovaleraldehyde onto the LSA forming Lysergic Acid Isovaleraldemide, see study above.

There is .01mg LSA in 100 seeds (.01 x 100 = 1mg LSA), just a 100 seed extract has effects very similar to 100ug of LSD, LSI is 1/10th the potency of LSD. Immense visual power with closed eye geometrics, wild colors, music sounds bad ass, divine healing power. I have prepared an extract with 200 seeds and the strength increases similar to 200ug of acid.

I have been tripping my ass off every 14 days or so taking this LSI liquid extract around 1 hour after a very small bridgesii tea prepared with only 450 grams of bridgesii cactus chuncks from around the core (around 225mg mescaline), as I love the combo of cactus + LSD, this is no different. Yes, I have tried LSI many times without the cactus, super potent, highly recommend. I will be using LSI for the rest of my life.

This aldehyde is completely safe and has been administered in high does to rats with no ill effects. This aldehyde as you can see from paper makes up a substantial part of peppermint oil and leaf.

More on LSI:

chemical formula for entry #16....3-aminopentane = CH(C2 H5)2
chemical formula for isovaleraldehyde is (CH3)2 CH2 CH2 CHO

Notice isovaleraldehyde even LOOKS EARILY similar to the tale end of psilocin or DMT with nearly the same exact chemical formula as the tail end of psilocin or DMT, see pics in middle
:eek:


diethylamine from LSD has 4 carbon groups and 11 hydrogen groups with a molecular weight of 73 g/mol.

Both the 3-aminopentane and the isovaleraldehyde of this new discovery have 5 carbon groups and 11 hydrogen groups (once the aldehyde attaches to the H already at the amide of LSA) and BOTH have exact same molecular weights of 87 g/mol similar to diethylamine molecular weight of LSD at 73g/mol.

The 3-aminopentane from Dr. Nichols and isovaleraldehyde discovery join at the R1 substitute of LSA with R=H still. This new aldehyde has same molecular weight as 3-aminopentane on the R1 substitute of LSA with R=H, see Dr. Nichol's paper on page 84, chart shown. This is one of only 2 entries in which the rats responded to it (3-aminopentane) as if they had been given LSD.

Dr Nichols:
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The important thing to note from the table below, in the far right column, is the fact that LSD has a potency in rats in the drug discrimination behavioral assay of 48 nanomoles per kilogram of rat body weight. Only two other compounds have comparable activity: entries 6 and 16.

Curiously, entry 6 is a monoalkylamide that has the same molecular weight as LSD itself, that is, it has a total of four carbon atoms attached to the amide. Entry 16 has a five-carbon group attached to the amide.

We have no evidence as to whether either of these compounds would be active in man, but these rat data suggest that they might be.



3-aminopentane has a potency in the drug discrimination behavioral assay of 52 nanomoles per kilogram of rat body weight, this is very similar to the 48 nanomoles per kg of rat body weight observed with LSD.

Last 3 pics: Home grown fresh potent mg seeds....if you can't grow them yourself, buy them on-line in bulk and store in freezer to keep potent until you use...also shown: the priest may have made LSI from claviceps paspali ergot (same alkaloid profile as the mesoamerican morning glory) as it grows it the famous Rarian plane adjacent to Eleusis, and served it for 2,000 years in ancient Greece to the psychedelic initiates (hundreds of people drank it at once every Sept). The Kykeon brew was known to contain ergot and fresh peppermint (contains isovaleraldehyde) all mixed together for some time. This easily made brew could have easily fed hundreds of people.



Other topics: Alchemy chemistry fun:

Compilation of pan cyan or panaeolus cyanescens or copeandia cyanescens trip reports, crown jewel of mushrooms:
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/28108398/page/1

How to extract 2.4g dmt from 170g bark using a 2 Liter erlenmeyer flask (heat and break resistant), post #15:
https://mycotopia.net/topic/111610-hpbcd-dmt-sublingually-active-under-tongue/

Tetrahydroharmine or THH and how to make her, Caapi visionary feminine teaching spirit:
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/28423951/page/1

Zero nausea HPBCD or aloe vera enhanced penetration Ayahuasca capsules:
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/28189371/page/1

Cactus tea before waterpark to beat the heat:
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/28411312/page/4



How to make LSI or Lysergic Acid Isovaleraldemide (Greek Eleusis ancient LSD) at home from morning glory seeds (the priests used non poisonous claviceps paspali which grows on paspalum grass adjacent to Eleusis present day in the famous Rarian plane, same alkaloid profile as the sacred Mesoamerican morning glory):
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27850299/page/2

Make your own 1-acetaldehyde LSD at home from LSD, very similar to ALD-52 or the real orange sunshine:
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/28441105

On my very first pan cyan mushroom trip, where I went to a house music club tripping with friends, I viewed laser light patterns on the floor of the club, where the women danced, I believe the mushrooms showed me how to form never before seen patterns, as went I went home, over the next several months, I built my own 6 channel audio generator that when these combined frequencies (3 on x channel and 3 on y channel) were sent to a laser x and y galvanometer, were able to produce brand new laser patterns such as collapsing circles and spinning lines 360 degrees which looked beyond belief in the fog as 3-d, I then went on to market these laser scanners to clubs on the strip, and they were a huge success...I owe this creative invention to the mushrooms which sparked new creative energies, way beyond thought, from a higher source where the mushrooms tap into. My love for house music stems back to those days of visiting many clubs as an entertainment laser lighting fixture creator and programmer and making friends with the many DJ's. Over the summer myself and friends were lifeguards at the local water park. But on the weekends we went to parties or house music clubs.

https://www.friskyradio.com/
https://jaytechmusic.podbean.com/
 
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I don't think aldehyde adducts of LSA will be stable enough to reach the brain.
 
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27850299/fpart/13

pic: I will post my bottle of isovaleraldehyde when I am back in town 2 weeks from now. But this is the aldehyde that will give you real LSD like effects and stimulation, 2 drops is all you need. Isovalderaldehyde has nearly the exact same chemical formula as the tail end of DMT or psilocin: CHO CH2 CH2 2(CH3), and nearly the same molecular weight 87g/mol as LSD's diethylamine at 73 g/mol. Both isovaleraldehyde from the Greece Eleusis kykeon peppermint and 3-aminopentane from Dr. Nichols have exactly 5 carbon groups and 11 hydrogen groups (once the aldehye attaches to one of the H already at the amide of LSA). Very similar to LSD's diethylamine which has 4 carbon groups and 11 hydrogen groups. See post above with the pics and study from LSD scientist Dr. Nichols as to why Rats respond to this number of carbons and hydrogens on the LSA amide as if it is real LSD.

This is ANCIENT LSD, it was hypothesized to form from ground claviceps paspali ergot which grows on paspalum distichum grass in the famous Rarian plane adjacent to Eleusis (same safe alkaloid profile as Mesoamerican morning glory high in LSA) that is mixed with a handful or large amount of fresh peppermint leaves for a while in wine. This could very well be the famous Kykeon psychedelic brew, formula kept secret for 2,000 years by the priests, able to easily feed over 300 hundred people (new initiates) like clockwork every Sept. LSA --> potent LSI, it is indeed possible and works extremely well.

You say you are advanced chemist and than proceed to make statements that are similar to – coke and sugar have almost the same formula so therefore they are both addictive.

I’m not saying you are lying to be advanced chemist but your reasoning is becoming idk..
 
Protecting the N of the indole system with isovaleraldehyde is known, it's a way to produce a legal LSD prodrug but a quick look at the MSDS of the compound and checking the PubChem references strongly suggest that the OP isn't too clear on what features are key to the activity of LSD (and homologues.

KEY is the fact that it contains the DMT molecule within it's structure.

I'm always impressed by people who are at the peak of the Dunning-Kruger effect. IF such a simple, commercially available compound really was a substitute for LSD, I'm quietly confident that it wouldn't turn up on a BBS devoted to mushrooms. Although, 'kept in the dark and fed shit' is an apt definition of both.
 
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See post above with the pics and study from LSD scientist Dr. Nichols as to why Rats respond to this number of carbons and hydrogens on the LSA amide as if it is real LSD
It's not the number of atoms that matter, it's their connectivity and shape.
The 5HT2a receptor (active site fot LSD) basically needs a diethylamide or sometthing closely approximating its shape, i.e. 3-pentylamide or dimethylazetizide. Anything bigger doesn't fit.
Take a look at the paper where they detail the structure of the 5HT receptor and how LSD binds.
Also, there is no evidence that anything bigger tjan N-ethyl-LSA has any activity.

Both isovaleraldehyde from the Greece Eleusis kykeon peppermint
Isovaleraldehyde is definitely not related to peppermint. I used to work with the stuff. It smells like toe jam.

This is ANCIENT LSD, it was hypothesized to form from ground claviceps paspali ergot which grows on paspalum distichum grass in the famous Rarian plane adjacent to Eleusis (same safe alkaloid profile as Mesoamerican morning glory high in LSA)
The problem is, ergot doesn't make LSA. It makes ergolines (e.g. ergotamine), which need to be chemically processed to split out the lysergic acid. And morning glory / Hawaiian baby woodrose have a totally different alkaloid profile - I don't think they make any ergolines.

How are you going to isolate workable amounts of LSA anyway? Attempting to do chemistry on crude mixtures is a recipe for frustration.

Also, did you know that aldehydes and amines do not produce N-alkylamines - they produce imines (and water), which in the presence of water will revert to the aldehyde and the amine. In order to actually produce useful amounts of imine you would need to work in an anhydrous solcent and add something to bind or react with the water formed. However as soon as you ingested your imine it would break back apart.
To actually make N-isovaleryl-lysergic acid amide you would need to form the imine and then add a reducing agent like sodium borohydride.

Otherwise you will end up with morning glory seeds (or ergot) that reeks of toejam and is not any more active than usual.
 
The problem is, ergot doesn't make LSA.
Supposedly, there is at least one highly valued claviceps paspali mutant that produces direct LA. Was also told it yields 3g of LA per liter of culture every 10 days.

I actually have a bioreactor but never tried to culture anything yet.


How are you going to isolate workable amounts of LSA anyway? Attempting to do chemistry on crude mixtures is a recipe for frustration.
It cant be that difficult? Most natural products just require specific extraction and purification protocols. I employ a ghetto version of flash chromatography similar to CRC in cannabis you just gotta find where your target molecule elutes.. but alot of the pigments are relatively polar and so will stick to the media.
Haven't tried it with morning glories, but it does wonders on other natural products
 
Supposedly, there is at least one highly valued claviceps paspali mutant that produces direct LA. Was also told it yields 3g of LA per liter of culture every 10 days.
Without access to someone who is selling said mutant, it's a handy footnote, but don't expect to find it in your local Home Depot.
One journal article details the genetic manipulations needed to knock out a gene called IpsB, which is responsible for turning lysergic acid into ergometrine. It's not kitchen chemistry. They claim 3.7g of a mix of lysergic acid and isolysergic acid per liter of culture per 16 days.

It cant be that difficult? Most natural products just require specific extraction and purification protocols.
The problem is classically more complex than other extractions.
Cannabis has a large amount of the psychoactive component present as a trivially separable form, and as the main constituent (Namely, THC-COOH and THC). Meaning even a simple solvent rinse and heat treatment is enough to isolate THC in workable purity.
Ergot on the other hand is far more aqueous and dilute than Cannabis. And proportionally it doesn't produce as much active component. What it does produce is usually a complex mixture of more polar compounds that are also more sensitive to things like oxygen and light.
One Hungarian patent claims about 100L culture = 10kg mycelium = ~100g crude ergot alkaloid. Mind you they also use more than 50L ethyl acetate as well as ammonia, phosphoric acid, a fluidized bed dryer, and chromatography over silica.

Doable? Yes. Easy as THC extraction? Not by a long shot. Also there is the small matter of growing the C.paspali in the first place,
 
Important note: isovaleraldehyde used to be widely available even on *mazon and *igh media, (extracted or synthesized in India) but now only a couple places have it for sale directly to individuals, search for 25ml bottle, other places only sell to businesses or university. I am sorry it's not widely available, it is found in mint leaf and steam distilled mint oil. A 25ml bottle (around the price of 2 to 3 movie tickets) has 500 drops, so 2 drops per dose you add and spin with your morning glory wine for 1 hour at high speed on your stir mantel with 1 to 2 teaspoons of apple cider vinegar (contains acetic acid which is the chemical catalyst for the aldehyde adduction) will last around 250 doses or a lifetime.

See post #1 downloadable attachment in references section at the end of paper, for the study that even back in 1937 showed cinnamaldehyde (an even longer chain aldehyde than isovaleraldehyde) adducts onto LSA like looking molecules, and remains stable.

Forensic tests have shown that LSH (LSA + acetaldehyde adduct = LSH) does indeed reach the brain and was found in bloodstream and urine of 2 teenagers, so it does remain stable and reach the brain: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20018470/

...and yes LSI does indeed also remain stable and reach the brain. The study even showed that a catalyst was not even needed to work with cinnamaldehyde, but I use a chemical catalysts (acetic acid in vinegar) to speed up reaction and guarantee it's success anyways, just like the studies I posted on post #1.

Convert ml to drops: https://www.unitconv...ter-to-drop.htm

LSA + isovaleraldehyde = Lysergic acid Isovaleraldemide.

I will post more trip reports in future.
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Having an ultra bad ass time tonight, 4 hours in...combined the zero nausea morning glory wine made with 25 grams heavenly blue seeds and several drops isovaleraldehyde with 3 hits of LSD, felt like 6 hits of acid and all the alkaloids in the morning glory seeds made it feel ultra-natural with intense shimmering of all visuals, deep insights, divine healing. The 6 other alkaloids in mg add so much more to the experience..very unique.

I never take LSD unless I combine it with at least 20 grams plus of morning glory wine, feels so much more like a high dose natural version of LSD, hits all the extra adrenal receptors that LSD normally does not hit, (same ones mescaline hits) this makes it extra colorful, no man made feeling at all, music is ultra enhanced way beyond just LSD. The shimmering of visuals is to die for. I like to combine the MG wine with LSD, cause I have lots of LSD and need to use it up. Been enjoying the tunes of jaytech all night.

If you need help making the zero nausea mg wine just go to page 11, and go half way down and follow the easy steps with pics: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27850299/page/2/fpart/11/vc/1


LSI, page 1 with over dozen pics: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27850299/fpart/1/vc/1
 
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OK, real chemist dropping some truth bombs here. Tired of some of these age old rumours with zero proof.

If you think that imine formation is going to occur in aqueous environments, maybe Journal of Organic Chemistry would like to hear your methodology
It's an equilibrium reaction, amine + aldehyde <-> imine + water. If there is an abundance of reactants on one side, it will want to equalize both sides. So if a lot of water is around, any imine that forms will most likely bump into water and revert to amine+aldehyde again.

But wait a second, I missed something. LSA is an amide and not an amine. Amides are way less basic than amines and have totally different reactivity. That is why alpha-hydroxyethyl LSA doesn't just fall apart like an imide would- it's not an imide.
Part of the problem here is that while, yes, technically speaking LSH is an adduct of LSA and acetaldehyde, studies only ever show the adduct being decomposed to LSA and acetaldehyde, and never created.
I can say that THC-COOH is an adduct of CO2 and THC, and indeed, if you heat/acidify it, it decomposes to CO2 and THC. But no matter how much CO2 you add to THC you will never reform THC-COOH (in fact supercritical CO2 is used to extract THC...)

I cannot find any references to alpha-hydroxyalkyl amides forming spontaneously in solution (or even at all). Putting things on amides is a lot tougher than putting things on amines. (Wonder why we don't go from LSA to LSD directly? That's why) There is an OrgSyn paper making a 2,2,2-trifluoro-1-hydroxyethylamide from an amide and 2,2,2-trifluoro-1-methoxyethanol. but the analogous reagent to make a plain 1-hydroxyethylamide (1-methoxyethanol)... is not a bench stable compound, as a hemiacetal of acetaldehyde. (Also the reaction does not proceed with the aldehyde, it needs the hemiacetal.)

You would figure that if the reaction between LSA and acetaldehyde was as quick and easy as it is claimed, that I would be able to find plenty of other references and papers of similar reactions occuring, between an aldehyde and an amide in aqueous solution. But I can't find anything aside from this repeated playground rumour of LSA forming adducts.

There has never been a proven literature synthesis of LSH from LSA. I am willing to be proven wrong with any journal article that clearly demonstrates a plausible reaction pathway and can demonstrate formation of LSH with at least chromatographic evidence (either isolation of the pure material, or just a mass spec from a mixture on LC or GC). This means no trip reports, no hypothetical wishy washy shit. I want to see hard proof.
I might even send a trinket or postcard to anyone who does so as a prize for scientific achievement in drug sciences. (I will give a consolation prize to anyone showing a proven synthesis of an alpha-hydroxyalkyl amide (any synthesis at all) or anyone who can, in a double blind study with preferably more than 10 peopls, prove that LSA and LSA+aldehyde is actually any different than LSA.)

I also have serious doubts that anyone with a head full of acid would be able to effectively judge the effects of, well, any added drugs. Especially if they verge on placebo. LSD makes people more suggestible so it's hard to take any claims based exclusively on how you feel when you're, y'know, high on acid.

The one semi reliable reference from those papers that references a reaction between an amide and an aldehyde is an Indian Academy of Sciences from 1938 that apparently nobody (including you) actually read fully. They make some freak compound of two amides and one aldehyde instead of an imide or hydroxyethylamide though. And their synthesis was not at room temperature, at millimolar dilution, in aqueous solution. They heat a neat mixture of pure amide, pure aldehyde, and fucking pyridine at temperatures between 100C and 160C for several hours to a day and get yields of between 6.2-50%. Also none of their amides used were even close to lysergamide in terms of complexity. LSA/ergine melts and decomposes at 135C. Also you will note that the catalyst used (pyridine) is basic not acidic, and not the kind of thing you want to eat. (Smells like rotting fish taint)

The other papers you linked are either mislabeled or total shit and do not form a body of evidence to support your claims at all.
"Has the Mystery of the Eleusinian Mysteries been solved .pdf" No. Next.

"DunningRobertL1956 (2).pdf" is someone's dissertation and presumably "evidence" of 3-methylbutanal in peppermint oil. If you spend 5 minutes to actually read the paper, it's pretty poor evidence. They are still using paper chromatography, and most importantly, seemingly cannot effectively seperate isovaleraldehyde from the menthol (oops). Also, they don't do any quantitative measurements (they don't determine how much isovaleraldehyde is present).
Another problem is that peppermint, like many plants, can exist in many differing chemotypes that have different compositions of essential oil. So, some peppermint oil may contain some, but other oils may not (and in my experience I have never seen isovaleraldehyde in peppermint oil, and I ran a GC doing terpene chemistry for ~5 years).

"3-methylbutanal or isovaleraldehyde safety sheet, low in general toxicity after oral exposure.pdf"' - Yeah, it's probably not super toxic, but it's a skin and eye irritant, and also smells strongly of toejam. It is not pleasant. (I would regularly use large volumes of isovaleraldehyde as a precursor to cryptone and 2-menthen-1-ol. Always used it in a fume hood. Would not consider eating it.) It is, however, rated as food grade for flavor and fragrance use from some suppliers.

"Chapter5_Excerpt_Peppermint.pdf" - Cool stuff about peppermint oil and its potential for allergies, but isovaleraldehyde does not appear in the list of typical components of ISO standard peppermint oil. It only indicates that one study found that there was isovaleraldehyde present in some samples, and didn't specify an amount. (Not quantitative.) Not very strong evidence.

"The LSA component of claviceps paspali forms LSH when dunked into fermented liquor (wine).pdf ", actual title "Production of a new lysergic acid derivative in submerged culture by a strain of Claviceps paspali", apparently never read the paper either (noticing a pattern here), because the "fermented liquor" is not wine, it's the fermentation liquid being used to grow the C. paspali! The paper talks about how they isolated a strain of ergot that naturally produces lysergic acid hydroxyethylamide exclusively, and says nothing about synthetic methods for making LSA into LSH.

"2016 Polish morning glory study shows LSH and penniclavine two highest alkaloids in MG (3).pdf" I don't have an issue with, I think it's established LSH is present in (at least fresh) morning glories/HBWR. (Penniclavine doesn't look active to me.) No claims for making LSH from LSA.

"5 Ergot alkaloids in morning glory just as stimulating as LSD in animal experiments, Yui and Yuji Takeo, 1958.pdf " again, no issue. We know that LSA is about 1/10 the potency of LSD in man, and LSH is presumably between LSD and LSA. Except I have to point out the obvious, animals are really, really bad at writing trip reports or describing body load. Does not describe LSH synthesis.

"Adduct formation of d-Lysergic Acid Amide or (LSA) and aldehydes.pdf" has the actual title of "The Theoretical Synthesis and in silico Modelling of Lysergic Acid Biscinnamylidene Amide from the Adduct Formation of d-Lysergic Acid Amide and Cinnamaldehyde" (translation: We never did any actual chemistry, We made some wild guesses, drew a structure, and plugged it into a web tool to predict activity)
It is the worst paper of the lot. There is nothing actually proven or discovered. Totally masturbation worthy of this very forum. It has such laugh-inducing content as:
This adduct formation is supported by anecdotal evidence of co-administering LSA with fresh peppermint leaves on forums [...] Fresh peppermint leaves are high in acetaldehyde*; thus, it is probable that individuals are forming LSH through the adduct formation of LSA and acetaldehyde**
* (They give no reference for this. Peppermint leaves have almost no acetaldehyde, in fact peppermint oil is mostly menthol and menthone. Acetaldehyde is toxic, volatile, reactive, and has a very objectionable smell, from having worked with it.)
** (They also give no reference to the mechanism that would form a hydroxyethylamide from LSA,)
The whole paper is basically them making hypothetical claims with zero actual evidence backing up the synthesis being possible.

"Tryptophan analogues form adducts by cooperative reaction with aldehydes and alcohols or with aldehydes alone, 1992 Austin.pdf" indeed shows compounds like indole acetic acid (which, wait a second, where's the amide to link up with there?) forming adducts with aldehydes.(imines). on the aromatic secondary nitrogen of the indole. Whoops. (No reaction at any amide groups shown.)
DF39boam.png


Convert ml to drops: https://www.unitconv...ter-to-drop.htm
'Drops' are not a standard unit of any sort, and depends on the size of the dropper aperture, atmospheric temperature/pressure, the surface tension of the liquid, the specific dropper bulb, skill of the person using it, etc. Getting a 1mL syringe to do measurements is not going to break the bank.

There's two ways you can respond to this. Consider all the evidence here and make a change, or continue believing rumours and whispers.
I'm sure taking LSD and morning glory together is lots of fun, but as a chemist with years of experience and a thing for dispelling drug legends, continuing to make claims that have never been verified in a reputable way (no isolation of LSH from LSA+whatever mixtures, not even a TLC plate which would take 15 mins and show a new compound forming quite clearly, costs minimal, can be done by average Jose). It's always bioassays and trip reports. Well, people are fallible. (even moreso with a head full of acid.) Consider Shulgin's famous anecdote:
While at sea, he suffered a serious thumb infection that required surgery. Handed a glass of juice by a nurse, he spotted some undissolved solids at the bottom of the glass, assumed it was a sedative and fell unconscious. It was actually sugar; the placebo effect had knocked him clean out.
If Sasha Shulgin can be fooled, so can you. So "trust, but verify".

This is like claiming the blotter art signifies different 'types' of LSD that produce different 'flavours' of trips. Or Cannabis sativa and Cannabis indica having differing effects (nowadays both are usually high THC low CBD cultivars). Or terpenes having major effects at all beyond smells. IME, all of these are old rumours that need to go away.

Otherwise I could mix my piss in your MG wine and claim that it makes a superactive hallucinogen from, I dunno, glucuronic acid or something, based upon solely my claim that "Well, I drank a 50/50 piss and MG wine mixture and had an intense and highly sexually charged trip that lasted 4 days." I could come up with a bunch of misread "evidence" papers too! But I don't because I'm trying to practice actual science and critical thinking.
 
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Easy as THC extraction? Not by a long shot
I never meant that at all. I'm sorry if I wasnt clear. I was saying any compound, (including fragile polar ones) can be extracted and isolated with the right process. Sometimes that process can be a lot simpler than what you might think.

Understanding the physical properties of both the target and non target compounds as well as the different polarities of medias and solvent systems is critical.

Is it as easy as THC or CBD? No. Is it impossible? No, I think any trained process chemist could do it.

As far as all of this adduct business I think it's all nonsense/placebo. Thank you for taking your time to write such a detailed post refuting the claims. I agree with almost everything you said, I was too lazy to do all that research and refute it myself because I know it's not gonna matter. Tregar is gonna believe what he believes not matter what you tell him.
 
"Since about 90% of the alkaloid pro-duced is found in the mycelium, the extraction was carried out by adding 10 ml of an aqueous solution of 4% tartaric acid to 5 ml of culture broth. The mixture was diluted to 40 ml with acetone and homogenized for 1 min. To 4 ml of the filtrate, 1 ml of a 1:2 mixture of borate buffer (0.4M) and NaOH (1N) was added, to obtain a pH value of about 10. This preparation was then extracted three times with 8 ml of CHCl3 (3ml+3ml+2ml), and the pooled extracts were diluted to10 ml with CHCl3."

This process looks like a slightly complicated acid base extraction with I assume a form of chromatography at the end to isolate ergotamine.
Sorry the formatting is so messed up, I would fix it, but I can only use a touch screen at the moment. Also that paper is from 1966, we may have well developed even easier methods by now.
 
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As I noted in my previous post, it's definitely doable, but way more hassle than the usual. Nowhere did I make the claim that you were saying it was a trivial process, and I apologize if I came off that way. Most importantly you have to deal with the 100:10:0.1:0.045 ratio of volume:mycelium weight: product alkaloids:lysergic acid produced by plain C.paspali meaning you better have a badass reactor and a lot of solvents.

Anything with chromatography in it, I consider a non-starter except for cases of exceptional need. Even then, like you I prefer to do flash chromatography rather than columns, just to save sanity.
 
I'm 100% with sekio on this one. Column chromatography is a real art form and only for those who actively enjoy watching paint dry.

Flash chromatography is a godsend,

I think the MOST important improvement Casey made to LSD synthesis was his later (and unpublished) variation in which the final amide is isolated.

That said, he managed 93% yield and I don't think the impurities are dangerous so could be left in there but he was a perfectionist, I kept on telling him that TIm Sands was producing the mono sec butyl but he always maintained that his goal was to make 'the real thing', a point he had 13 years and 8 months to consider,
 
This all makes me wonder if other analogs can be made and if it would be possible to create Methylene Dioxy Diethylamide. But I wouldn't know if such a compound would work.
 
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This all makes me wonder if other analogs can be made and if it would be possible to create Methylene Dioxy Diethylamide. But I wouldn't know if such a compound would work.
It likely wouldn't fit well in the binding pocket, nor would a home chemist be able to make it.
 
Column chromatography is a real art form and only for those who actively enjoy watching paint dry.
The only difference from "column" chromatography and flash chromatography is pressure pushing the liquid through the column so it goes quicker. That's all.

And yeah while chromatography is probably out of the question for a newb home chemist, it is the king of separation processes and should not be overlooked.

What I was suggesting when I mentioned CRC (a ghetto form of chromatography or chemical filtration if you will) is it's a great way to clean up so many natural extracts so you're starting with less compounds before targeting your isolate. A lot of compounds just won't move through the media. It's easier to separate 10 compounds from eachother (generally), than it is 100 compounds. Extraction and ultimate isolation often requires multi step processes. Each process is designed to reduce the number of compounds present. until you ultimately have one.

Also Casey is a real POS. I've met him. Dont get me started, but I have little to zero respect for that human. Who pushes their pregnant girlfriend out of a moving car? Casey does.
 
Do you think Para-Methoxydiethylamide would be easier to make than Methylene Dioxy Diethylamide ? Or is that just as difficult ? Also, what do you think about Lysergic Acid Amidotryptamine ? Do you think that would be psychoactive ?
 
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Also Casey is a real POS. I've met him. Dont get me started, but I have little to zero respect for that human. Who pushes their pregnant girlfriend out of a moving car? Casey does.

And steals the money collected for a guy who died due to a bad reaction to 5-MeO DMT. Casey does.

He's basically morally gone steeply down hill since prison. That is just 1 problem with those places, it teaches you to think of yourself and of nobody else.

About the ONLY modification I've discussed with Dave Nichols is placing a methyl at the 14 position (same spot as 7,alphe DMT. We concluded that it might increase serotonin release. We also agreed that it would be a total nightmare to make and since it was only an educated guess, their isn't much point.

The 8 position combined with different amides look like the only ways to produce subtle shades of LSD. There are still combinations as yet untested. the mono sec-butyl homologue or the (S,S) 2,4-dimehyl azetidine with different things at 8.
 
Who is Casey ? I wish people would stay on topic. No offense.
Casey Hardison. One of the clandestine chemists with some degree of noteriety.

The topic flowed into this, and frankly is interesting. Btw, if it's bigger than an azetidine, likely won't be active. I'm unsure if the oxygens would play nice with the receptor as well, but not positive one way or another.
 
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