Cornishman
Bluelighter
How would we develop advanced medical technology/medicines without diseases like HIV to help us push the boundaries of what we know?
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Hardcore morality of todays society, will be our downfall.
- Thread starter moonyham
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MyDoorsAreOpen
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See, here's the thing about deciding one person has more of a right to live than another: once you're across that line, where do you stop? Who has the right to decide who gets to keep living and who doesn't? Who's watching the watcher? Gandhi's now-cliche aphorism about "an eye for an eye" says this nicely. For anyone who cares about the good of humanity in general, universal right to life, and the universal dignity of human life, is the only ethical standard that works.
We got where we are today as a species, in terms of technological progress and standards of living, by abandoning the notion that one person's life is inherently worth more than another's. If we want any chance of staying around or evolving into something higher, regressing back toward the Law of the Jungle is not going to help us.
Empathy is the greatest gift of our self-awareness, and what essentially makes us human. There's a reason we refer to people who don't have it (sociopaths) as "monsters" or "beasts", and their actions as "inhuman".
I'll beg you not to use the word 'retard' in this forum again, moonyham.
We got where we are today as a species, in terms of technological progress and standards of living, by abandoning the notion that one person's life is inherently worth more than another's. If we want any chance of staying around or evolving into something higher, regressing back toward the Law of the Jungle is not going to help us.
Empathy is the greatest gift of our self-awareness, and what essentially makes us human. There's a reason we refer to people who don't have it (sociopaths) as "monsters" or "beasts", and their actions as "inhuman".
I'll beg you not to use the word 'retard' in this forum again, moonyham.
Kilgore
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mr.dopeman
Bluelighter
yea i think u fail to see the larger picture. i mean with your morals some people may not see you as fit to live. but just because they think that doesnt mean you should die. maybe u can be so gracious enough to return the favor.
Psychedelic Gleam
Bluelighter
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I wish they killed that "drooling retard" in the electric wheelchair, Stephen Hawking, what did he ever give us?
Who are you to decide who is "fit to live" and who is "fit to die"?
Who is fit to make these decisions?
Are those we perceive as handicapped without potential? Do individuals who live with disease find themselves unable to provide anything to society?
Survival of the fittest DOES NOT APPLY to society/social structures. These are artificial constructs with built in inequality and disadvantage. The fittest DO NOT necessary get ahead in such constructs which are extremely biased. Most people's position in society, wealth/poverty etc are predestined by social structures not emergent from the persons will/determination/hard work.
I don't think we are a moral society at all. We are dishonest in our very perception/reaction to disadvantage focusing on the INDIVIDUAL as the source of the problem/solution thus ignoring the societal structures that create so-called "weak" individuals. Individual goes only so far in such an encompassing artificial social structure.
Who are you to decide who is "fit to live" and who is "fit to die"?
Who is fit to make these decisions?
Are those we perceive as handicapped without potential? Do individuals who live with disease find themselves unable to provide anything to society?
Survival of the fittest DOES NOT APPLY to society/social structures. These are artificial constructs with built in inequality and disadvantage. The fittest DO NOT necessary get ahead in such constructs which are extremely biased. Most people's position in society, wealth/poverty etc are predestined by social structures not emergent from the persons will/determination/hard work.
I don't think we are a moral society at all. We are dishonest in our very perception/reaction to disadvantage focusing on the INDIVIDUAL as the source of the problem/solution thus ignoring the societal structures that create so-called "weak" individuals. Individual goes only so far in such an encompassing artificial social structure.
Thanks bluelighters, for putting words in my mouth. I was using those types of people as examples.
You know what is truly sad about all you peoples reactions? That you seem to think that 1 life now is more important than multiple lives later. This is why we have people throwing rubbish out there car windows, why we have people dumping cars in rivers, why we have people throwing used batteries in creeks. You people just think about now and what currently is with no prospect or thought about the future - which is why we are in this situation where more and more people every year are getting horrible diseases like AIDS, because we care about people now instead of the people its going to effect later.
How is it immoral or wrong to kill someone who has AIDS in an effort to stop the spread of the disease? How is saving someones life from becoming the host and spreader of this disease a bad thing? If when we had first discovered AIDS and lets say hypothetically there was only 10 people with it, would it have been wrong to kill those 10 people then to stop what has now become an epidemic ? Do you really think that is wrong? If you do then wow, just wow - and you reference me to hitler? Jeez.
We are in the same situation as what i just mentioned, only now we have all these optimists, all these people who think 'oh they are gonna find a cure eventually, lets not worry about it spreading all around the world like wild fire'. If it means killing 100 million people now to save a billion people later, then so be it, thats a fair call to make im my opinion. The whole reason we would have to kill so many people is because of this hardcore morality all of you are displaying right now that 'Oh they are people too stop being so cruel and sociopathic', but you know who are also innocent people? The cunts who get a blood test one day and find they have a disease which, had there been an eradication earlier in history, they wouldnt have got. THAT is what is truly fucking sad. That we are allowing people to get this disease when we could be preventing it.
If there was a way to prevent these people from infecting others, then that'd be great, but thats just not how this world works, we dont live in this fairy land all of you seem to be be in. We live in a world where people go around fucking others when they know they have AIDS, we have people who accidentally spread it aswell. Its just inevitable, and thats the problem - no matter how much educated, now matter how many precautions, its still gonna spread till we get rid of it completely. On average, the rate of which an HIV positive person infects another human is more than 2:1, which is why the disease is spreading. You all sit behind your computers persecuting me but im pretty sure youd be pissed off and saying the same thing if you got diagnosed with AIDS today, you would have wished that it had been eradicated before it had become a problem but then you look back at the 'morals' you had before you got AIDS and realize that this eradication never happened because of people exactly like yourself.
I am not trying to target any specific type of person, just the ones who fail. The ones who fail society, in that they make it worse. Not the ones who are neutral or above, im talking ones who make this society worse - THAT is who im targeting. You guys say 'oh but where do you stop'... well you stop when you've gotten rid of people who just rot away living on handouts, you stop when you've gotten rid of people who kill others by spreading there uncurable diseases. You stop once you've got it into peoples thick fucking heads that failing over and over is NOT ok, its just NOT.
It use to be, when we lived in tribes and villiages, that if you couldnt provide something for that tribe, you'd be ousted. If you had nothing to offer, if you just ate there food, used there warmth from fire, and so on.. that you were a piece of cancer to that village, you were bringing them down. If you had too many people like this then your tribe would die from starvation and what not... you HAD to pull your own weight otherwise what are you worth? NOTHING.
But no, now we let these same people just sponge off of us, just eat and sleep and take our money and resources and providing NOTHING in return. These are the people who need to be gotten rid of. I dont care if they 'could' become a functioning member of society, the point is they ARENT. If they 'could' then why arent they? Because they are lazy, because they are comfortable, because WE LET THEM. This is the whole point im trying to make, that we shouldnt BE letting these people do this.
You know what is truly sad about all you peoples reactions? That you seem to think that 1 life now is more important than multiple lives later. This is why we have people throwing rubbish out there car windows, why we have people dumping cars in rivers, why we have people throwing used batteries in creeks. You people just think about now and what currently is with no prospect or thought about the future - which is why we are in this situation where more and more people every year are getting horrible diseases like AIDS, because we care about people now instead of the people its going to effect later.
How is it immoral or wrong to kill someone who has AIDS in an effort to stop the spread of the disease? How is saving someones life from becoming the host and spreader of this disease a bad thing? If when we had first discovered AIDS and lets say hypothetically there was only 10 people with it, would it have been wrong to kill those 10 people then to stop what has now become an epidemic ? Do you really think that is wrong? If you do then wow, just wow - and you reference me to hitler? Jeez.
We are in the same situation as what i just mentioned, only now we have all these optimists, all these people who think 'oh they are gonna find a cure eventually, lets not worry about it spreading all around the world like wild fire'. If it means killing 100 million people now to save a billion people later, then so be it, thats a fair call to make im my opinion. The whole reason we would have to kill so many people is because of this hardcore morality all of you are displaying right now that 'Oh they are people too stop being so cruel and sociopathic', but you know who are also innocent people? The cunts who get a blood test one day and find they have a disease which, had there been an eradication earlier in history, they wouldnt have got. THAT is what is truly fucking sad. That we are allowing people to get this disease when we could be preventing it.
If there was a way to prevent these people from infecting others, then that'd be great, but thats just not how this world works, we dont live in this fairy land all of you seem to be be in. We live in a world where people go around fucking others when they know they have AIDS, we have people who accidentally spread it aswell. Its just inevitable, and thats the problem - no matter how much educated, now matter how many precautions, its still gonna spread till we get rid of it completely. On average, the rate of which an HIV positive person infects another human is more than 2:1, which is why the disease is spreading. You all sit behind your computers persecuting me but im pretty sure youd be pissed off and saying the same thing if you got diagnosed with AIDS today, you would have wished that it had been eradicated before it had become a problem but then you look back at the 'morals' you had before you got AIDS and realize that this eradication never happened because of people exactly like yourself.
I am not trying to target any specific type of person, just the ones who fail. The ones who fail society, in that they make it worse. Not the ones who are neutral or above, im talking ones who make this society worse - THAT is who im targeting. You guys say 'oh but where do you stop'... well you stop when you've gotten rid of people who just rot away living on handouts, you stop when you've gotten rid of people who kill others by spreading there uncurable diseases. You stop once you've got it into peoples thick fucking heads that failing over and over is NOT ok, its just NOT.
It use to be, when we lived in tribes and villiages, that if you couldnt provide something for that tribe, you'd be ousted. If you had nothing to offer, if you just ate there food, used there warmth from fire, and so on.. that you were a piece of cancer to that village, you were bringing them down. If you had too many people like this then your tribe would die from starvation and what not... you HAD to pull your own weight otherwise what are you worth? NOTHING.
But no, now we let these same people just sponge off of us, just eat and sleep and take our money and resources and providing NOTHING in return. These are the people who need to be gotten rid of. I dont care if they 'could' become a functioning member of society, the point is they ARENT. If they 'could' then why arent they? Because they are lazy, because they are comfortable, because WE LET THEM. This is the whole point im trying to make, that we shouldnt BE letting these people do this.
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Papa1
Bluelighter
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- Oct 16, 2008
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- 467
Dude, what you propose is the Nazi version of eugenics. You espouse extreme nazi-like views. Hitler is a pretty good comparison.
Humans and human ancestors have consistently cared for non-reproductive members. Even neanderthals looked after their heavily crippled elderly. There's no systematic history of 'tribes and villages' ousting diseased members - that's you projecting. Compassion, empathy and wealth distribution have gotten us this far.
What seems much more likely is that you dislike certain specific people in your life, and justify it by holding certain beliefs that make them worthless. I'd guess that you're not really that passionate about the success of society (how much of your time do you volunteer?) and are using this belief as a front for something personal, but that is really a guess.
If you honestly don't understand the shock and horror that you've brought out of people, you're in for a very frustrating life.
I think I'm about done talking with you...
Humans and human ancestors have consistently cared for non-reproductive members. Even neanderthals looked after their heavily crippled elderly. There's no systematic history of 'tribes and villages' ousting diseased members - that's you projecting. Compassion, empathy and wealth distribution have gotten us this far.
What seems much more likely is that you dislike certain specific people in your life, and justify it by holding certain beliefs that make them worthless. I'd guess that you're not really that passionate about the success of society (how much of your time do you volunteer?) and are using this belief as a front for something personal, but that is really a guess.
If you honestly don't understand the shock and horror that you've brought out of people, you're in for a very frustrating life.
I think I'm about done talking with you...
Oh yes because my motives and beliefs are cast through racial bias? No, they arent. I will view anyone the same no matter race or religion. I really couldnt care less if someones black or white, jew or christian. Comparing me to Nazi's is pretty far off man. They persecuted and killed because of race and religion, not because they(the jews and others) were actually the scum of society. Just because they had a twisted, misinformed belief's that had no factual evidence behind them, where as mine do.
People with AIDS, spread AIDS - FACT
People with AIDS, can and usually will die from AIDS - FACT
The spread of AIDS at this point in time cant be stopped through any other means than eradication - FACT
Eradication at this point in time, means letting people with AIDS die, or ending there life prematurely - FACT
Hitlers views? Not based on fact, based on prejudice. Your so far off its not even funny, papa.
Oh and you tell me im 'projecting' what ever the hell that is supposed to mean, that tribes ousted detrimental members of thier society? Ummm... wtf? Never heard of leprosy? Never heard of TB? Never heard of any of the other diseases man has had to eradicate? You're living in fairy land mate, fucking fairy land.
Oh and its funny how you didnt answer my hypothetical question 'Would you have stopped(Via murder) the spread of AIDS if it meant only killing 10 people while we still had the chance'. Really just shows how you avoid the real hard facts of life and just continue to live in your artificial bubble of peace and happiness.
What you are all basically saying, is that you are for the spread of AIDS because you are all too overly moral to 'break a few eggs to make an omelet' so to speak.
People with AIDS, spread AIDS - FACT
People with AIDS, can and usually will die from AIDS - FACT
The spread of AIDS at this point in time cant be stopped through any other means than eradication - FACT
Eradication at this point in time, means letting people with AIDS die, or ending there life prematurely - FACT
Hitlers views? Not based on fact, based on prejudice. Your so far off its not even funny, papa.
Oh and you tell me im 'projecting' what ever the hell that is supposed to mean, that tribes ousted detrimental members of thier society? Ummm... wtf? Never heard of leprosy? Never heard of TB? Never heard of any of the other diseases man has had to eradicate? You're living in fairy land mate, fucking fairy land.
Oh and its funny how you didnt answer my hypothetical question 'Would you have stopped(Via murder) the spread of AIDS if it meant only killing 10 people while we still had the chance'. Really just shows how you avoid the real hard facts of life and just continue to live in your artificial bubble of peace and happiness.
What you are all basically saying, is that you are for the spread of AIDS because you are all too overly moral to 'break a few eggs to make an omelet' so to speak.
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Moony question,
Do you think Hitler believed his own views were based on fact at the time?
How would you even go about killing all the people with AIDS? If the policy was introduced no one would ever let themselves be tested for it, for fear of being killed, then they'd probably go around spreading it to more people unwittingly, creating more of an epidemic.
Do you think Hitler believed his own views were based on fact at the time?
How would you even go about killing all the people with AIDS? If the policy was introduced no one would ever let themselves be tested for it, for fear of being killed, then they'd probably go around spreading it to more people unwittingly, creating more of an epidemic.
Yeah youd have to take measures. Mandatory blood test for everybody twice a year till its gone or something, i agree it wouldnt be easy but i never said it would be.
As for Hitler, im not sure. He may have known what he was saying was BS and just said it anyway because he hated jews so much, or he may have been delusional to the point where he actually did think jews were a threat to society, i really couldnt say and niether can anyone else. The thing is, what i just said.. i mean how can you disagree - AIDS does spread, AIDS does kill people, and AIDS currently cant be stopped other than through eradication. If you want to clarify that and if you think im wrong please do so, thats why i created this thread.
Basix, question:
If when we had first discovered AIDS and lets say hypothetically there was only 10 people with it, would it have been wrong to kill those 10 people then to stop what has now become an out of control epidemic ? Or would you just let them go and spread the disease to let it become what is has become today? If those of course were the only options.
As for Hitler, im not sure. He may have known what he was saying was BS and just said it anyway because he hated jews so much, or he may have been delusional to the point where he actually did think jews were a threat to society, i really couldnt say and niether can anyone else. The thing is, what i just said.. i mean how can you disagree - AIDS does spread, AIDS does kill people, and AIDS currently cant be stopped other than through eradication. If you want to clarify that and if you think im wrong please do so, thats why i created this thread.
Basix, question:
If when we had first discovered AIDS and lets say hypothetically there was only 10 people with it, would it have been wrong to kill those 10 people then to stop what has now become an out of control epidemic ? Or would you just let them go and spread the disease to let it become what is has become today? If those of course were the only options.
wow...... just wow.
vegan
Bluelighter
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- Feb 13, 2003
- Messages
- 6,398
that's you, right?
cause (although i haven't read all the posts), it seems that for you, killing is the only solution to a problem
an example just 2 posts before
so, 10 people have AIDS
to you, it's black or white. two buttons only
kill them or make them spread the disease
anyone on this board can give you tens of ways to prevent these people from spreading the disease... without hurting them
mix the white and black paint a bit. sometimes, grey looks good too
marsmellow
Bluelight Crew
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Moonyham, why are you so confident that you are a contributing member of society?
And, what if a person can not find a job, and they are forced to take government benefits? Do they deserve to be executed?
And, what if a person can not find a job, and they are forced to take government benefits? Do they deserve to be executed?
my whole tribe has received SOoooOo so so very much from my 'retarded' cousin who will most likely not bread and really doesn't do much to provide for himself...
think about that
what have we received/learnt from this 'retard' in our family who drains our resources (pffft)
... what is it ?
LOVE
over-flowing ... sweet.. simple.... LOVE
think about that
what have we received/learnt from this 'retard' in our family who drains our resources (pffft)
... what is it ?
LOVE
over-flowing ... sweet.. simple.... LOVE
Jamshyd
Bluelight Crew
Moonyham, in hopes of getting you to take responsibility for your thread and continue the discussion instead of pretending like nothing happened, I have a question for you.
Why is the survival and procreation of humanity so important to you?
Why is the survival and procreation of humanity so important to you?
swilow
Bluelight Crew
Well, fuck you then
. I'm on a disability payment- it helps me live. Whats wrong with that? I've as much right as you to life. Everyone does, if they are alive. If anything, I would say that the cruelty of what you have written reflects a darker, worse aspect of humanity then anything you perceive as 'morality'. Anyway, go and heil Hitler- he'd have liked you. Oh, I forgot- he killed himself. Weak, no?All people die- FACT. Your a sad soul brother- I wish you well, though I'd hate to live in a hell like yours.
Cornishman
Bluelighter
Moonyham, you never answered my question.....
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