Government and U.S. Armed Forces

[dr seuss]

How is 'loose lips sink ships' a propoganda slogan?

http://www.digitalhistory.uh.edu/do_history/propaganda/index.cfm

 

[camo]

Ok thanks for the visual aid. Now back to the point. How is it a PROPOGANDA SLOGAN? How is that in some way shape or form trying to convince you or subliminally preach war?

 

[dr seuss]

the important point is the link.

propaganda is not just about preaching war. propaganda is a vast subject area that covers all sorts of different activities; its main focus is to exercise control over the population in order to achieve a higher aim.

propaganda has been used for lots of purposes; to inspire people to fight, to keep people quiet, to create nationalism, to inspire 'patriotism', to tell people to grow their own vegetables, to instill a climate of suspicion, to encourage people to value government above family, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.

 

[thursday]

Wow this place went on a serious downward spiral.

Thursday. How is 'loose lips sink ships' a propoganda slogan? I'm sure you probably have no idea what OPSEC is but here's the concept. If you TALK ABOUT MOVEMENT OR OPERATIONS, THE WORD CAN GET TO THE ENEMY AND THEY WILL BE WAITING FOR YOU hence "LOOSE LIPS SINK SHIPS." I guess anything the government says is propoganda to you. By the way... that van across the street... it has government agents in it. They're watching you.

uhh.... maybe because it originated from WWII propaganda posters?--duh!

and by the way, such propaganda might have been justifiable in WWII in the context of divulging sensitive information about military operations, but using it now to keep people quiet about military corruption is just blatant repression of our democratic ideals.

I'd also like to add that it wasn't us that brought stereotypes to the table. I believe as soon as we started posting you automatically threw up "You're in the military, you can't possibly think for yourselves. blah blah" Since you have never spent a day in the military you cannot know how or what we think. Now before you go and say 'I don't want to know how you think' or 'You can't think' because that is exactly what you'll say because we all know you by now... especially because you are continally repeating yourself. I am convinced that you have nothing better to add to this thread than stating that we are stupid and you are this open minded individual to which no others can compare.

riiiight... because i'm the one who's been calling people retards and idiots in every single one of my posts. and by pointing out attitudes that you and your buddies have demonstrated in this thread, i'm stereotyping the armed forces. keep putting up strawman arguments though, i'm sure it's very convincing to those who don't bother to actually reading my posts.

The fact of the matter is, those of us who are in it for love of our country have something that you do not. We have a connection. A permanent bond of brotherhood and a love for a cause so deeply imbedded within our souls that we are willing to die for it and the men next to us. Do you have such traits? What would YOU die for?

and what exactly is that cause? neo-imperialism?

the difference between you and i isn't that i'm not willing to die for my beliefs. it's that i'm not willing to kill people to advance a doctrine which undermines the very ideals it purports to uphold. i'm not willing to be used as a tool to commit state-sponsored atrocities or to subvert democracies in foreign lands. i value human life whether it is american or otherwise. i don't believe in pitting myself against other people just because they speak a different language or live under a different form of government.

if we were truly engaged in a justified war for our own survival i would willingly lay down my life to aid my country. but what's going on in iraq and afghanistan is not such a war. i'm not willing to blindly follow orders to exercise violent coercion against innocent human beings. i'm not willing to unnecessarily endanger the lives of innocent people under false pretenses.

secondly, even if we weren't at war, i have other personal quarrels with the military which are not criticisms of people who join the military out of love for their country, but are conflicts with the way the military is structured. i'm not one to blindly follow orders. like sgt, if i were to observe unethical conduct within the military, i would exercise loose lips, as you call it, and raise awareness about such corruption. this apparently doesn't bode well within the military machinery as you've stated and clearly demonstrated.

aside from that, there are other ways of improving humanity other than picking up a gun. i believe i'm better suited for these other roles. sure, doing volunteer work to improve the community isn't as manly as joining the army, but in my mind distributing food to the homeless, raising awareness about poverty(and trying to eliminated the causes of poverty within our society), raising money for medical research, tutoring school children and donating my time and technical expertise to local schools, and other non-testosterone-boosting activities improve our society more than becoming a cog in a military machine controlled by a few men with questionable scrupels.

We live by a code, the warriors code.

I WILL NEVER ACCEPT DEFEAT.

I WILL NEVER QUIT

I WILL NEVER LEAVE A FALLEN COMRADE

I doubt you can comprehend those. They weren't in any of your books and they certainly aren't in that dime bag of weed.

yea, because there aren't any books out there that emphasize perseverance and undying resolve. and none of the books i've read ever mention loyalty, altruism, or self-less heroism either. maybe you should actually pick up a book or two before you start criticizing people for valuing knowledge and intellectualism.

here's a tip, when people criticize you for sounding ignorant don't prove them right by pitting yourself against "knowledge" and "intellectualism." being well-read is never a vice. some of the greatest military leaders were also extremely well-read individuals. war isn't fought by brute-strength alone, and military strength doesn't benefit a society unless it is accompanied by wise and ethical leadership(something our country seems to lack at the moment).

oh, and you might also want to add "I WILL NEVER QUESTION WHAT I AM TOLD" and "I WILL NEVER PRODUCE ORIGINAL THOUGHTS OF MY OWN" to your list of virtues.

 

[camo]

Apparently you aren't as intelligent as you think. You completely misunderstood my entire thought process on "loose lips sink ships." I was referring to the fact that SgTaIrFaG is blowing himself up by talking about so called 'black ops' doctrine and SOPs. None of you need to know any of that and honestly it creates a possible threat to any of his comrades. It had nothing to do with talking about his beef with the military.

Personally I wouldn't want to be anywhere NEAR his fox hole.. EVER. You're right though. You weren't calling anyone retards or idiots. You were calling us fascists and nazis. That's ok though, right? You are pretty funny though. Most of your posts have been about stereotyping us as mindless tools working for the government. You consider all of us to be stupid. Yet when we stereotype you, you get all defensive and pull the oh-so-popular "YOU DONT KNOW ME". Grow up. If you can't take it, don't dish it out.

I will continue to put up 'strawman arguements' because that's all you're giving me. I think it's hilarious that you have problems with the military because of the way it is STRUCTURED. Are you for real?? You haven't been in the military, so how the fuck can you have an educated opinion about how the way it is structured or even have a PROBLEM with something you don't know?

This may come as a shock to you but I'm sure you know the reason WHY we aren't being attacked. WE TOOK THE FIGHT TO THE TERRORISTS. We keep them busy on THEIR turf and they stay the fuck off of ours. Simple concept.

yea, because there aren't any books out there that emphasize perseverance and undying resolve. and none of the books i've read ever mention loyalty, altruism, or self-less heroism either. maybe you should actually pick up a book or two before you start criticizing people for valuing knowledge and intellectualism.

That's right. There aren't. You will never understand these concepts that we live by. You are not a wise man until you've experienced the different aspects of life. You may have book smarts but that's where your intellect ends. We live that which you read about and maybe you're jealous. You probably sit in your chair, typing about how messed up the military is yet quietly think to yourself what it's like to do such great deeds.

here's a tip, when people criticize you for sounding ignorant don't prove them right by pitting yourself against "knowledge" and "intellectualism." being well-read is never a vice. some of the greatest military leaders were also extremely well-read individuals. war isn't fought by brute-strength alone, and military strength doesn't benefit a society unless it is accompanied by wise and ethical leadership(something our country seems to lack at the moment).

When have I pitted myself against knowledge and intellectualism? I maintain a 3.5 GPA at my local university. I am an expert in the field of infantry. I have read a lot of influential books written by men such as Thoreau, Orwell, Kipling and Emerson to name a few. I am, by no means, pitting myself against those things. It may come as a shock to you but many of us have nothing to do at times and, oh dear lord, we read books!

Now that I've said my piece I hope that you can come up with some other sort of arguement instead of repeating the same shit you have been for the past few days. Come up with other ideas than just 'neo-imperialism'

 

[thursday]

when did i call you a fascist or nazi? i said our society exhibits many of the characteristics of a police state. why is it that you have such a hard time responding to my posts without making shit up?

oh, and how exactly has SgT endangered his comrades by revealing questionable conduct in the military? maybe bringing attention to such things might get people who perpetrate state atrocities under military secrecy in trouble, but it certainly has nothing to do with giving our real enemies any kind of tactical advantage. if anything, reforming military corruption improves the performance of our military in its real duties.

clearly you don't know what "strawman argument" means so i'm just gonna leave it up to you to look that up in the dictionary.

oh, and yea, by pissing off more impoverished people and pushing them to violent extremes while fostering hatred and contempt for our nation, we're protecting ourselves from terrorism... right.

and i'm not at all jealous of being told what to do and what to think and being forced to surrending my ability to form opinions of my own. and i don't like guns or blowing shit up so the excitement factor of the military has no appeal to me. if anything i'd want to join the peace corps or red cross and help people that way. but i guess that's not as exciting as being a super-bad-ass soldier. and no, i don't want to know what it's like to accomplish great deeds like the my lai massacre, i don't want to know what it's like to drop cluster bombs on laotian farmers or what it's like to butcher women and children from a B-52 bomber. i don't want to know what it's like to contribute to tens of thousands of civilian casualties in a war that's supposed to be liberating people or just to satisfy blood-lust and vengence against an elusive enemy.

when have you pitted yourself against knowledge and intellectualism? when out of no-where you started criticizing people for taking college courses and developing their character through education. when you implied that because i spend so much time reading books i can't possibly understand the values you learned through military service. well, it might also surprise you that i don't just sit in the library all day, and i do contribute to my community in direct ways which i've mentioned but you've conveniently ignored. because as well all know military service is the only true service to society.

oh, and why can't you come up with some sequitur arguments for once instead of ad hominem attacks and regurgitated jingoist rhetoric? or even better, why do you keep repeating the same old shit about the "military?" can't you come up with any other ideas?--it's called relevant concepts. get used to people bringing up the same retorts when you keep bringing up the same fallacies and never respond to posed arguments.

 

[camo]

My apologies, that was Kul calling us Nazis and fascists.

 

[camo]

Speaking of never responding to posed arguments, why did you not say a word about my restructuring question? Please don't throw comments about not responding to questions when you yourself do the same thing.

Also, I give you credit for never saying a thing refuting you being a drug abuser considering a large portion of your posts have been in the Drug Usage forum or whatever it's called. Kudos! That just means that not ALL of our comments were inaccurate.

 

[killarava2day]

LMAO @ "book smarts"!

 

[Raw Evil]

Dont feed the trolls.

Amen to that. It's not something that will get you anywhere.

Remember kiddies:

Fighting on the Internet is like competing in the Special Olympics - Even if you win you're still retarded.

(No offense to any Special Olympians who might read this, it's a JOKE and is intended only to be taken as such. Thanks to Camo for providing the necessity for such a disclaimer. Night all.)

 

[camo]

Seeing as how you took part in the festivities as well, you're as retarded as the rest of them. Good riddance.

 

[Another Sheepdog]

You "bluelighters" are some courageous dudes sitting behind your computers and typing a bunch of liberal leftwing bullshit. Hey VOID, betcha you would'nt call any of us "army boys" to our face.

 

[maassive]

Fighting on the Internet is like competing in the Special Olympics - Even if you win you're still retarded.

Nuff said, but id still call them little army girls, bitches straight up in their face.

 

[camo]

And you'd receive a broken nose in short order....

and as my good sergeant once said, "It'll be hard to pick up your teeth with broken fingers."

 

[maassive]

wouldnt even give you a *chance* to throw a punch

 

[camo]

Of course not. You're a black belt right? *eye roll*

 

[maassive]

the only belt i got is the one thats gonna be woopin your bitch ass

 

[David]

^^LOL

You know how those military folk are in self-defense courses, still getting their asses handed to them by an old ass Sgt. That's why they're still grunts, because that's all they can do.

Let's also metion they tend to be severely uneducated.

You "bluelighters" are some courageous dudes sitting behind your computers and typing a bunch of liberal leftwing bullshit. Hey VOID, betcha you would'nt call any of us "army boys" to our face.

Now we're an ethug, that's crass!

You like sausage don't you.

 

[Mysticalis]

You "bluelighters" are some courageous dudes sitting behind your computers and typing a bunch of liberal leftwing BS. Hey VOID, betcha you would'nt call any of us "army boys" to our face.

And you must feel really courageous sitting behind your computer and issuing threats to these Bluelighters under an assumed alter ego.

I'd gladly call you to your face. Pony up an address. I don't have the UCMJ to worry about anymore. I doubt you can make that same claim.

 

[WhinnersAreLosers]

Well, dr seuss, to further round out your historical material, not only was Dunlop making tires for the Germans, but Ford was also making trucks for the German Army at the Opel factories in Germany. It appears Henry Ford was quite fond of Nazi Germany. I won't deny that. Or the fact that French and Polish general officers came to America to advise the colonial army during the Revolutionary War. As I remember it, the Germans weren't known to be an oil country. Polesti, ring a bell to you? Next you'll tell me the Japanese were actually trying to free Asia from the Allies during WWII. As for an emasculated German society, I stand my ground. I would never deny the historical achievements of past Germans, but were comparing apples and oranges. Today's German society is one were they fear militant Islamic attack so much, they're debating on having a national "Muslim Day" to appease the terrorist. There's that word again, appease. Look at Spain? My mother's family is Catalonian and they are disgusted at how the Spanish government rolled over to terrorists (muslim and the ETA). By the way, I'm only a second generation American. My mother is an immigrant of Argentina, her parents were Czech and Spanish. My father's father was born and raised in Sweden. But I'm smart enough to realize that I live in society that billions of people can only dream about.

Furthermore, the Russians were well and good and all, but didn't they sign a non-aggression pact with Germany in which they agreed to divide Poland amongst themselves? Or how about the massacre of Polish officers at the Kaytn Forest? The list of atrocities they committed in the name of "Wars of Liberation" are too numerous to list.

Dr seuss, what the fuck have you done to STOP the massacre in sub-saharan Africa? Don't raise awareness, raise a weapon and fight. Or is that brutish behavior for the mindless and uneducated?

I don't know what you've done, but apparently you didn't go to the former Yugoslavia when it was a European problem and you would never stick your neck out for a bunch of ignorant peasants in Africa. Go figure, you talk alot, but do nothing. Actions, not words.

VOID, please be quiet and go back to your coloring books. Grown ups are talking.

massive, thank you for being so understanding and mindful. I'm glad you fully live up to the ideals of this website. Now fuck off please.

David, again, you fully personify the ethos that you have been espousing all along. Your look down on homophobic, knuckle dragging, neanderthal "army boys" for their violent tendencies, yet are willing endorse violence against them when it suits your purpose. you're a self-centered twat, so you to should fuck off. Grown ups are talking.