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Gibberings : CXXXV: There ain't no party like a PV party

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on the channel four alien thing.. im a geek for that stuff. probably read over a hundred books on the subject (cleared through half the borough's libraries on the paranormal a few years ago) and probably read the same amount online.. yet saw one advert for that program & had no desire to watch. i already knew what it would be like - attention seeking, loony, moronic idiots who throw ridicule onto the subject


abductions - whatever they are - clearly occur & do so on a worldwide, culture-crossing history-spanning (away with the faries) basis, to deny this is pure folly


there are plenty examples of things that occur that are inexplainable to science today & until recently thought a myth.. ball lightning is one that comes to mind


it may be a mass psychological experience. its certainly more complicated than little green men. could be jungian, could be quantum - either way, it merits attention


many people here will be familiar with hyperspace, afterall
is it so unbelivable
 
^ Ya. Saw that last night. He was only 51, no? Such a shame :(

BHM: I'm also a bit of a UFO/paranormal/general freaky shit buff. I can't say I'm exactly a True Believer (cos so much of it is clearly bollocks, attention seeking, feeding off each other, underlying (and very Earthly) trauma and so on) but I wouldn't write the whole thing off. There are definitely a few cases which I find pretty convincing. At least in the sense that something highly unusual has occurred. Whether they've been interpreted correctly is another matter. I'm what you might call healthily sceptical (in the true sense of not just taking somebody's word for it but also not dismissing out of hand - actually open-minded rather than coming down firmly one side or t'other, take each case as it comes kinda deal) but definitely gotta big interest in all that kinda stuff. I find it fascinating. Not all very convincing - or even remotely convincing in many cases - but quite open to the idea that such things could happen and maybe have happened. Some of the stories really are quite convincing to me though. Or at the very least warrant being taken somewhat seriously cos I don't believe every single "abductee" is lying, mistaken or mad. Most of 'em, yes. But not all.

That C4 doc was pretty hilarious though. Yes it was deeply mocking but there is a place for that too. It obviously makes good telly to find the most ridiculous-sounding examples - and there were a coupla doozies in there :D - but that doesn't detract from other, less ridiculous, cases. Not for me anyway. People who point and laugh at such things as a matter of course will do so anyway, people that take it all as FACT will do so anyway. Minds that are genuinely open (but not with brains spilling out over the rim) seem to be pretty thin on the ground.
 
thing is, i used to be exactly the same way. my dad was also and he'd got me into science/astronomy and i was skeptical of everything also


the problem is with the vast majority of programs on ufo's/abductions etc is that theyre all like that. none of them look at the more credible stuff


the reason for the mass ridicule is that it was a intentional constrution. the big secret behind the whole alien thing isnt that the governments have crashed saucers and arcane knowledge - its precisely the opposite, they dont have a clue what these things are they catch on radar, that mutilate cattle and seemingly make people believe they have been abducted.. and havent since launching genuine projects involving scientists and actual evidence tasked with looking into them back in the 50's. the scientists had no clue and because of cold war era paranoia - they did not want to admit the fact they were powerless over their airspace - thus the printing of silly stories and topdown policy of ridicule began
 
My Dad is an astronomer. He and his old mate who has now sadly passed on built a small observatory. It was built with pallets filled in and had a swivel dome roof. As a kid it was amazing going in. They clubbed together to buy a huge telescope. Not much by todays standards but epic at the time. They showed me Saturn through it and you could clearly see the rings. I was amazed. I picked up a lot about astronomy from my Dad and he always reminds me when the next meteor shower or event is happening. The reason I named my Daughter after a constellation.
 
BlindHelperMonkey said:
the problem is with the vast majority of programs on ufo's/abductions etc is that theyre all like that. none of them look at the more credible stuff
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ickepissed6.jpg
 
how did you know I wrote cygnus? :sus: I changed it because I thought there was more comedy value in a little girl called The Great Bear :)


Cassiopeia?
 
BlindHelperMonkey said:
thing is, i used to be exactly the same way. my dad was also and he'd got me into science/astronomy and i was skeptical of everything also


the problem is with the vast majority of programs on ufo's/abductions etc is that theyre all like that. none of them look at the more credible stuff
Click to expand...

Very true... but those of us who are aficionados know where to find the more creditable stuff. There's vasty amounts of documentaries and books and stuffs that do focus on the less comedic aspects. But the comedic aspects are... well... comedic and who doesn't like a giggle? I like both for different reasons.

And as for scepticism, as I said, I mean actual scepticism not the cartoon version - "sceptic" as insult. Blanket naysaying is as blinkered and oafish as blanket, wide-eyed acceptance.

AC Grayling said:
Despite traditional appearances, scepticism is not well described as doubt or denial, nor is it properly understood without limitation of subject matter. Rather, it is best and most sharply characterised as a motivated challenge, in a specified area of discourse, to the makers of epistemic claims in that discourse.
Click to expand...

Of course when it comes to a topic like UFOs and abductions - "paranormal" stuffs in general really - it's kinda hard to find concrete evidence so is more about balance of probabilities. Does the person making the claim have reason to be lying (are they making money or gaining some kinda "celebrity" status from it? and the like). Is there any corroborating evidence from witnesses or physical traces? Are there basic fundamental errors in what they are saying? (this is often a dead giveaway cos plenty of the chancers are pretty clueless about stuff and make all kindsa silly claims which are clearly misunderstandings of pop science and "common knowledge" which is just plain wrong). That kinda thing.

In the majority of cases there are big warning flags that what they are saying is most likely not true - or at the very least has been wildly misinterpreted. But there are exceptions and I don't feel the need to simply dismiss those cos I have no reason to. In those cases I'm quite prepared to believe that something highly unusual happened to them and they may well be telling the truth. Or at least the truth as they see it. If I can't see any glaring howlers or seriously suspect motives then I have no reason to disbelieve them. But I also don't just take what I'm told at face value and try to dig a lil deeper to see if their particular story goes on the "clearly bollocks" or the "interesting phenomena - may well be something to this one" pile. Or somewhere inbetween.
 
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