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Television Game of Thrones

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@Foreigner

The first Scorpion that Bronn shot at Dany was a prototype. Qyburn has proven himself to be somewhat of a diabolical genius, and has used the time since then to make upgrades (made of steel instead of wood, more lethal, precise, accurate). They had months to install them on Euron's fleet and around the castle. Euron had months to practice shooting.

After the first strike, Rhaegal obviously started to flail, making the second shot easy, and by the third shot Euron's aim would theoretically be at its peak. Yeah, it's a stretch...but did we really need to see him shoot 3 or 4 more when Rhaegal would have died from the first two anyway?

I don't know the geography of Kings landing very well, but Cersei's army clearly had scouts out far to the north. They knew well ahead of time when they were coming and from what direction. How many there were, etc. Could likely deduce their strategy based on all these things. Euron is a freaking pirate, after all. He launched a sneak attack the night he took Yara hostage, so he has a history of successful ambushes.

Dany had no real reason to think her dragons could be vulnerable , especially that far from land. She personally destroyed the one land based Scorpion. Could someone have predicted them being put onto ships? Even if Dany had seen the ships, could she have spotted the Scorpions soon enough and figured out what was going on before it was too late? Doubtful. Point is, the who saw who first thing doesn't really mean much. Say she spotted them and attacked, one or both dragons still would have gotten shot before they got in range.

As far as the battle at Winterfell, Dany and Jon had a strategy going in. They were going to put all their effort into finding the night king and taking him out. Focusing on the ground battle too much would have meant the Night King being left to his own devices. That simply wasn't an option given the destruction he could have inflicted with Viserion.

Melisandre realized when she arrived at Winterfell what her purpose would be. When she saw Arya. The conversation they had where Melisandre referenced her prior prophecy --and the Syrio quote-- was the only hint/inspiration Arya needed. Her earlier movements through the library without detection, as well as her years of training and experience as a faceless man, multiple assassinations/infiltrations...she was perhaps the most qualified person in Westeros to attempt what she attempted.

Yeah, there's plot armor. Could the episode have benefited from a more major death? Perhaps. But I mean, we did lose Jorah, Melisandre, Theon, and many more. Next episode Rhaegal and Missandei. That's five pretty big characters. The last two episodes will likely be the deadliest, and I for one am happy we still have several big pieces on the board. Too few and the "whose gonna kill who" riddle becomes much less complex.
 
My friend isn't liking this final season and I'm loving it. Last Sunday's episode wasn't my favorite so far, but still. I'm glad I haven't been going over to his house to watch it with him because he's one of those people who are picking apart certain things. Sometimes, you have to just roll with it. Not every little thing needs to be dissected. Watching it with him would've ruined it for me.
 
^ So 100% true!!

You have to just take what comes in the show and enjoy.

I had to listen to someone complaining about an episode just after I watched it, and I was not happy.

It's fun for me to dissect things afterwards, but complaining ceaselessly is a whole other book!
 
another nice summary @mal3volent. i don't think the episode required that much suspension of disbelief (compared to the baseline that is).

i also agree with the last two comments. i can be quite analytical and always have many questions but, in the moment, i try to just let the thing wash over me and enjoy it holistically. the over-analysis can come later :)

alasdair
 
its bloody sweet crack is what it is, ill be damned if anyone says anything different! :cool:
 
So any chance Rhaegal didn't die? Magical properties of Dragonstone or something like that?

Or there's another dragon somehow? I don't know how dragon sex works. Any book readers know?

In the preview for the next episode, Euron looks up and seems quite shocked by something.
 
So any chance Rhaegal didn't die? Magical properties of Dragonstone or something like that?

Or there's another dragon somehow? I don't know how dragon sex works. Any book readers know?

In the preview for the next episode, Euron looks up and seems quite shocked by something.

Dany was on a dragon when Euron's guys killed the other one that was flying beside her. So there's still one dragon left as far as I know.
 
Right, but why would Euron be shocked by Drogon by himself when he should be expecting that? They've got scorpions everywhere. To me it's as though he sees something that he's not expecting or not ready for.
 
SPOILERS ETC

Omg... I can't believe how badly they have botched this series. It's simply astonishing. When you just can't see it getting any worse, it does!

So in episode 4, the scorpions were such a threat to the dragons that Danaerys couldn't attack them head on. Now suddenly she shreds the entire fleet and the scorpions on the city walls, no problem? WHY didn't she do that in the first place and spare Missandei from being captured?

The writing is so damn lazy, it's incredible.

I can buy into Danny as the Mad Queen. She has had that side to her all along. But they basically took her from being a compassionate person who is the savior of the underdog to a ruthless, indiscriminate mass murderer in like 2 episodes.
 
SPOILERS ETC

Omg... I can't believe how badly they have botched this series. It's simply astonishing. When you just can't see it getting any worse, it does!

So in episode 4, the scorpions were such a threat to the dragons that Danaerys couldn't attack them head on. Now suddenly she shreds the entire fleet and the scorpions on the city walls, no problem? WHY didn't she do that in the first place and spare Missandei from being captured?

The writing is so damn lazy, it's incredible.

I can buy into Danny as the Mad Queen. She has had that side to her all along. But they basically took her from being a compassionate person who is the savior of the underdog to a ruthless, indiscriminate mass murderer in like 2 episodes.

Ffs. The scorpions were a threat because she was ambushed. Rhaegal was shot before they even knew what happened. She came in with a strategy this time, knowing what she was up against as well as where they were all located. She targeted them first before she did anything else.

The writing isn't lazy. It's a little rushed, yes, but that isn't all on the writers. They are given a timetable and have to make the best of that timetable. You don't think Benioff and Weiss would have chosen to have more episodes if it were completely up to them? (Look up the drama on set and between the cast) Also please don't forget that GRRM clued them in to the key plot points to end the series. B&W have just been made into scapegoats for everything.

Dany has been fighting back these feelings the entire series. She watches the brutal death of her brother and says with a blank stare "he was no dragon". Look what happened in Meereen, and to the Tarlys, and the dozen times she fought against or flat out ignored advice she was given to show mercy.

I personally don't think Dany's actions were completely out of bounds. She sacrificed everything yet still she was conspired against and betrayed. Yes the people rang the bell, but that didn't mean Cersei was going to surrender. She didn't know what kind of defense they had in and around the Red Keep. Or how many soldiers remained. She had her eyes on the prize and chose to end it then and there.

As she said, in a way, she actually was being merciful. It was Cersei who put those people in that situation. Not Dany. It's war and in war there are innocent casualties.

Excellent episode. A true piece of art. From the showdown between the clegane brothers, to watching Cersei's world come crashing down on her (see what I did), to Arya choosing life over empty revenge and her escape from the city.

Beautifully done. Thanks DB&W for giving us one of the best shows of ALL TIME. Sorry no one appreciates anything anymore.
 
^ Couldn't agree more! I LOVED it! Dany didn't just turn into a mass murderer overnight, it was the culmination of events that made her snap.
It's been building up to this. In the episode where they were all drinking and celebrating the defeat of the Night King, she looked around and realized that Jon is beloved, she is not. Cersei killed Missandei, that left a huge void. Jon is no longer returning her affections so not only did she lose her sidekick, she lost the man she loves. Varys betrayed her and she feels like Tyrion betrayed her too because he told Varys the secret. She feels completely alone and lost. She feels like no one is on her side anymore.
She chose to go all the way to the dark side and make every one fear her.

The episode is beautiful to look at. I like how we felt the terror of those on the ground watching the sky fall down upon them. Cersei was crying "I don't want my baby to die! Don't let me die!" She should've thought about that before she chopped Missandei's head off! There was no reason for her to be that cruel and ruthless, it cost her everything in the end. So really, it wasn't worth it at all. She learned that a little too late though. I like how Jaime and Cersei died together. That's how it was meant to be.

Arya was the only one left in the aftermath and there's this gorgeous white horse covered in blood and dirt. She survived thankfully and rode out of the city. The whole episode was poetic in a way.
 
Gregor and the Mountain on the exposed staircase with the dragon flying in the background. Fire everywhere. The hound fell to his death into a pit of fire (his biggest fear) to make sure he killed that abomination. Beautiful and poetic.
 
Ffs. The scorpions were a threat because she was ambushed. Rhaegal was shot before they even knew what happened. She came in with a strategy this time, knowing what she was up against as well as where they were all located. She targeted them first before she did anything else.

The writing isn't lazy. It's a little rushed, yes, but that isn't all on the writers. They are given a timetable and have to make the best of that timetable. You don't think Benioff and Weiss would have chosen to have more episodes if it were completely up to them? (Look up the drama on set and between the cast) Also please don't forget that GRRM clued them in to the key plot points to end the series. B&W have just been made into scapegoats for everything.

Dany has been fighting back these feelings the entire series. She watches the brutal death of her brother and says with a blank stare "he was no dragon". Look what happened in Meereen, and to the Tarlys, and the dozen times she fought against or flat out ignored advice she was given to show mercy.

I personally don't think Dany's actions were completely out of bounds. She sacrificed everything yet still she was conspired against and betrayed. Yes the people rang the bell, but that didn't mean Cersei was going to surrender. She didn't know what kind of defense they had in and around the Red Keep. Or how many soldiers remained. She had her eyes on the prize and chose to end it then and there.

As she said, in a way, she actually was being merciful. It was Cersei who put those people in that situation. Not Dany. It's war and in war there are innocent casualties.

Excellent episode. A true piece of art. From the showdown between the clegane brothers, to watching Cersei's world come crashing down on her (see what I did), to Arya choosing life over empty revenge and her escape from the city.

Beautifully done. Thanks DB&W for giving us one of the best shows of ALL TIME. Sorry no one appreciates anything anymore.

B&W were offered more money and more episodes, even more seasons. They said no because the show was taking up too much of their lives. Instead of handing it over to new producers, their egos had to write this monstrosity of an ending.

The writing is totally lazy and carte blanche style Hollywood drama with not much attention paid to nuance like in previous seasons.

You're welcome to disagree with me but I don't appreciate your dismissive tone as though I'm "one of those people". Yes, I'm one of those people who likes elevated art and writing, not wholesale slaughter. This was a shock value episode and not much else. Jamie's death was totally unfitting. The fight with Euron was random and misplaced. There was no real confrontation with Cersei. John Snow just stood around looking baffled, as usual. So much awkwardness, so much sloppiness. Arya running through the city was filler. There was no reason for her to even be there.

Some of us have actually been invested in the intrigues of the show and this blunt instrument of a season is a big disappointment. It's been the better part of a decade, you know?
 
Game of thrones has always been unpredictable- it's funny as fuck that people are getting so annoyed that Dany's character arc hasn't gone where they wanted. Did you want Lord Starks head on a spike, or the red wedding or the million indignities our beloved characters have experienced? George RR Martin never gives the readers what they want. That's the brilliance of this series.

She's a Targaryen with a dragon. How do you think her family got the throne in the first place? With blood and with fire.

Brilliant and devastating episode. The song of ice and fire is sounding.
 
B&W were offered more money and more episodes, even more seasons. They said no because the show was taking up too much of their lives. Instead of handing it over to new producers, their egos had to write this monstrosity of an ending.

The writing is totally lazy and carte blanche style Hollywood drama with not much attention paid to nuance like in previous seasons.

You're welcome to disagree with me but I don't appreciate your dismissive tone as though I'm "one of those people". Yes, I'm one of those people who likes elevated art and writing, not wholesale slaughter. This was a shock value episode and not much else. Jamie's death was totally unfitting. The fight with Euron was random and misplaced. There was no real confrontation with Cersei. John Snow just stood around looking baffled, as usual. So much awkwardness, so much sloppiness. Arya running through the city was filler. There was no reason for her to even be there.

Some of us have actually been invested in the intrigues of the show and this blunt instrument of a season is a big disappointment. It's been the better part of a decade, you know?

Hmmmm.... ok, while you're busy being hypocritical...I'll just point out that you didn't actually address any of my points. You're disappointed that the story didn't end how you wanted, and that's understandable. But that's no reason to trash the show runners and the quality of the show.

I didn't like some of the decisions that were made with Lost but I'm not gonna talk shit about it. It was an awesome show, and it revolutionized television. The ending was RUSHED. Go figure. When you have the most popular show in the world for so long it starts to weigh on you. I'm sure you didn't, but again I'd suggest looking up the drama between the cast members and some of the other problems.

Db&W have control over their own lives. I'm glad they chose to devote themselves to this show for so long. It has given me and millions of others years of escape and entertainment. Just because I had other ideas as to how a few storylines could have played out doesn't mean I'm going to bash them and talk shit about their work.

Btw..."carte blanche Hollywood drama" ? Wouldn't that have been more like,

dany and Jon put their differences aside and attack kings landing being careful not to hurt any innocent civilians
They face some unforeseen challenges
It looks like all hope might be lost
Then something miraculous happens
And somehow Jon and dany are able to defeat Cersei without shedding any innocent blood
 
Foreigner has the same exact complaints as my friend. If I didn't know any better, I'd think it was him. This thread is like deja vu because I've been arguing the same points back and forth while texting him today. He didn't like this episode at all...or this season in general. I don't get it.
 
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