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Film & TV Moderators: ghostfreak
Television Game of Thrones
- Thread starter Cyc
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Can't wait
CoastTwoCoast
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*raises hand* SO ready!!! I'll probably be biting my fingernails the whole time. Might need some Xanax. Haha
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Ok, so...not as many notable deaths as we thought.
There's a lot of negativity about this episode online. I got to thinking, and honestly it seems like people have been bitching ever since the show outpaced the books. Funny thing is, they keep watching in record numbers. Walking Dead on the other hand...an actual BAD show...plummeted in the ratings. Basically I think people want everything 100% their way, all the time, and if an outcome doesn't line up with what they'd hoped, it's automatically "bad".
I wonder what percentage of those who have been aggressively critical of the past 3 seasons or so are book readers?
Me for example, I haven't read the books, but have been devoted to the show since day 1. Before it was the phenomenon it is today. I personally would have changed a few things if it were up to me, but I can say that about almost every episode of television I've ever watched. That's part of the FUN of it to me. The anticipation of what you think might happen, finally seeing what actually happens, then comparing that against your expectations and arriving at an honest conclusion.
My final assessment is always based on: did it make sense? was it consistent with the spirit of the story? was it technically well executed? was it entertaining?
Did it make sense?
Yeah, I honestly think it did. Dany and her team had a plan. It fell apart quick, as most plans do. Melisandre showing up, lighting the swords on fire, the epic sweeping visual of the Dothraki plunging into the unknown. It got my feels going right off the bat. What happened after that, to me, was fucking terrifying and established that this enemy was DEATH ITSELF not some traditional opponent that could be rationed with. This battle was not Blackwater or Battle of the Bastards. There was no preparing. It was an onslaught of terror and a test of determination.
Was it consistent with the spirit of the story?
Well I said in an earlier post that i didn't think the outcome of this episode was going to be something that any of us could predict. So I think the fact that it wasn't Dany or Jon that killed the Night King, but instead Arya, is consistent with the unpredictability of the show. IMO. To be unpredictable is not enough, though. It needs to feel plausible and earned.
The show has spent dozens and dozens of hours building up Arya's reputation as a faceless assassin. She has clear and established talents that 99.9% of fighters don't. She utilized those specific skills to defend her brother, her home, and her species. With a weapon that had specific relevance to both the Night King and Bran.
Was it well executed technically?
Yeah, the episode was dark. I thought it could have used more strategic lighting. But I adjusted my picture settings and moved on, wasn't that big of a deal. They wanted the audience to feel the terror and confusion the characters felt. I mean, they're fighting an enemy that can control the climate around them. That has been a central pillar of the lore. That's not just the temperature, but everything else that accompanies Winter. We've seen the same exact "zero visibility" effect countless times before this beyond the wall.
When you get past this one topic...the lighting...and look at the entire scope of this episode. The thousands of hours of work it took. The fact that we're watching flying dragons and hordes of zombies and ice giants and an epic battle with probably fifty subplots...I for one was pretty damn satisfied with it as a technical achievement.
Was it entertaining?
This is more subjective I guess. But yes...I was. As I mentioned earlier, the beginning of the episode built up plenty of tension. I was thoroughly intimidated by the time we saw the first wight. I was on the edge of my seat the whole time...my heart was racing the whole time...and the 80 whatever minutes went by so quick I was sure it was only half over when the credits rolled.
----
I'm actually a little EXCITED that this threat is seemingly over. For a few reasons.
1. The shows called Game of Thrones. It's about humans in a power struggle. Strategy. Morality. Character development. We now have three big fat juicy episodes to deal with the real super villain of Westeros. What does Cersei have planned? What twisted evil plot does Qyburn have waiting? Jon and Dany. Hound vs Mountain. The Golden Company. Jaime's true allegiance. Tyrion's fate. Etc.
2. It leaves open the fan theory of "what if ____ becomes the new night king/queen?". The threat is not truly put to rest. We don't know what the fuck Bran was doing that whole time (as usual). And the idea that killing the Night King kills whatever darkness that fueled him is not exactly settled.
3. It's now an even fight again. Actually, it looks like Cersei probably has the upper hand. That bodes well for the drama that has yet to unfold as we enter the homestretch.
What do you guys think Bran was up to?
What exactly was Melisandre's impact on the battle, other than the flaming swords and lighting the trench?
What's the connection between her, Arya, Bran...the lord of light/the old gods/the great other?
the fact that this important of an episode ENDED with Melisandre leads me to believe there's more left to unwrap.
There's a lot of negativity about this episode online. I got to thinking, and honestly it seems like people have been bitching ever since the show outpaced the books. Funny thing is, they keep watching in record numbers. Walking Dead on the other hand...an actual BAD show...plummeted in the ratings. Basically I think people want everything 100% their way, all the time, and if an outcome doesn't line up with what they'd hoped, it's automatically "bad".
I wonder what percentage of those who have been aggressively critical of the past 3 seasons or so are book readers?
Me for example, I haven't read the books, but have been devoted to the show since day 1. Before it was the phenomenon it is today. I personally would have changed a few things if it were up to me, but I can say that about almost every episode of television I've ever watched. That's part of the FUN of it to me. The anticipation of what you think might happen, finally seeing what actually happens, then comparing that against your expectations and arriving at an honest conclusion.
My final assessment is always based on: did it make sense? was it consistent with the spirit of the story? was it technically well executed? was it entertaining?
Did it make sense?
Yeah, I honestly think it did. Dany and her team had a plan. It fell apart quick, as most plans do. Melisandre showing up, lighting the swords on fire, the epic sweeping visual of the Dothraki plunging into the unknown. It got my feels going right off the bat. What happened after that, to me, was fucking terrifying and established that this enemy was DEATH ITSELF not some traditional opponent that could be rationed with. This battle was not Blackwater or Battle of the Bastards. There was no preparing. It was an onslaught of terror and a test of determination.
Was it consistent with the spirit of the story?
Well I said in an earlier post that i didn't think the outcome of this episode was going to be something that any of us could predict. So I think the fact that it wasn't Dany or Jon that killed the Night King, but instead Arya, is consistent with the unpredictability of the show. IMO. To be unpredictable is not enough, though. It needs to feel plausible and earned.
The show has spent dozens and dozens of hours building up Arya's reputation as a faceless assassin. She has clear and established talents that 99.9% of fighters don't. She utilized those specific skills to defend her brother, her home, and her species. With a weapon that had specific relevance to both the Night King and Bran.
Was it well executed technically?
Yeah, the episode was dark. I thought it could have used more strategic lighting. But I adjusted my picture settings and moved on, wasn't that big of a deal. They wanted the audience to feel the terror and confusion the characters felt. I mean, they're fighting an enemy that can control the climate around them. That has been a central pillar of the lore. That's not just the temperature, but everything else that accompanies Winter. We've seen the same exact "zero visibility" effect countless times before this beyond the wall.
When you get past this one topic...the lighting...and look at the entire scope of this episode. The thousands of hours of work it took. The fact that we're watching flying dragons and hordes of zombies and ice giants and an epic battle with probably fifty subplots...I for one was pretty damn satisfied with it as a technical achievement.
Was it entertaining?
This is more subjective I guess. But yes...I was. As I mentioned earlier, the beginning of the episode built up plenty of tension. I was thoroughly intimidated by the time we saw the first wight. I was on the edge of my seat the whole time...my heart was racing the whole time...and the 80 whatever minutes went by so quick I was sure it was only half over when the credits rolled.
----
I'm actually a little EXCITED that this threat is seemingly over. For a few reasons.
1. The shows called Game of Thrones. It's about humans in a power struggle. Strategy. Morality. Character development. We now have three big fat juicy episodes to deal with the real super villain of Westeros. What does Cersei have planned? What twisted evil plot does Qyburn have waiting? Jon and Dany. Hound vs Mountain. The Golden Company. Jaime's true allegiance. Tyrion's fate. Etc.
2. It leaves open the fan theory of "what if ____ becomes the new night king/queen?". The threat is not truly put to rest. We don't know what the fuck Bran was doing that whole time (as usual). And the idea that killing the Night King kills whatever darkness that fueled him is not exactly settled.
3. It's now an even fight again. Actually, it looks like Cersei probably has the upper hand. That bodes well for the drama that has yet to unfold as we enter the homestretch.
What do you guys think Bran was up to?
What exactly was Melisandre's impact on the battle, other than the flaming swords and lighting the trench?
What's the connection between her, Arya, Bran...the lord of light/the old gods/the great other?
the fact that this important of an episode ENDED with Melisandre leads me to believe there's more left to unwrap.
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CoastTwoCoast
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^ I haven't seen what other fans are saying about the episode, but my one and only complaint is that it was way too dark. I couldn't see many parts of it. I stopped watching The Walking Dead seasons ago because the plot became monotonous, but they had the same problem, the show is too dark, not properly lit.
Besides that, what I was able to see, I quite enjoyed! It was definitely worth it in the end to see Arya take down the Night Cunt. I rewinded that scene a few times because it was so well done. I'm glad they didn't let Jon get the big kill, people would've expected that.
Lady Mormont went out like a boss taking down that giant! Loved that! Especially because she's so tiny, it was a much more impactful and memorable kill. She was a great character.
Sam was making me upset, he seemed more like a liability. He was in a stupor and got someone killed who was trying to protect him. He would've been better off in the crypt with the women and children.
We've never seen The Hound shaken and genuinely scared so it was interesting to see that side of him for once. I'm glad he snapped out of it to help Arya.
Like you said, not as many notable deaths as we thought in this episode. I forgot to take into consideration we still have the battle for the Iron Throne coming up against Cersei. There could be a higher death toll during that war.
Theon redeemed himself big time, I was proud of him.
I don't get the feeling that there's more to Melisandre dying. She knew that she'd be dead by dawn because she fulfilled her purpose to the Lord Of Light. I really like the way they showed her walking out into the abyss, changing back to her true nature...very decrepit, the long white hair flowing down her back and collapsing. I felt a finality in that storyline.
I haven't read the books and I prefer it that way. Everything is still new and exciting to me. Overall, I enjoyed the episode very much! There are always going to be chronic complainers.
Besides that, what I was able to see, I quite enjoyed! It was definitely worth it in the end to see Arya take down the Night Cunt. I rewinded that scene a few times because it was so well done. I'm glad they didn't let Jon get the big kill, people would've expected that.
Lady Mormont went out like a boss taking down that giant! Loved that! Especially because she's so tiny, it was a much more impactful and memorable kill. She was a great character.
Sam was making me upset, he seemed more like a liability. He was in a stupor and got someone killed who was trying to protect him. He would've been better off in the crypt with the women and children.
We've never seen The Hound shaken and genuinely scared so it was interesting to see that side of him for once. I'm glad he snapped out of it to help Arya.
Like you said, not as many notable deaths as we thought in this episode. I forgot to take into consideration we still have the battle for the Iron Throne coming up against Cersei. There could be a higher death toll during that war.
Theon redeemed himself big time, I was proud of him.
I don't get the feeling that there's more to Melisandre dying. She knew that she'd be dead by dawn because she fulfilled her purpose to the Lord Of Light. I really like the way they showed her walking out into the abyss, changing back to her true nature...very decrepit, the long white hair flowing down her back and collapsing. I felt a finality in that storyline.
I haven't read the books and I prefer it that way. Everything is still new and exciting to me. Overall, I enjoyed the episode very much! There are always going to be chronic complainers.
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Foreigner
Bluelighter
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- Mar 18, 2009
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- 8,297
My review of S8E3...
I realize the Dothraki charge made zero tactical sense. They were in a defending position, so there was no need to attack, especially when the enemy could not be seen. But man, did it have theatrical impact. Knowing how effective they were in all their previous battles, it was creepy to see their torches go out one by one.
Arya's last minute save... didn't make much sense. She went from being totally trapped and helpless to suddenly making her way to Bran, when even John Snow couldn't? It seemed like an ex machina type plot device. Anyway, it was still a good ending. I was biting my nails the entire episode because it was just so intense. I thought over all they did an amazing job of production. It felt like watching a movie. I don't know how we can top it in the next 3 episodes.
About Melisandre... she was around 400 years old and was possibly immortal through the magic of her necklace. I feel that the episode was somehow about her. As a longstanding and powerful servant of the Lord of Light, she felt it was OK to die once the darkness was defeated. She always represented an arcane and old world knowledge, something that the modern era characters don't really understand. To me her death symbolized the end of an age. There may be more to it but somehow I doubt that.
My one main disappointment with E3 was that the Night King was killed by Arya, and John Snow didn't even have a final battle with him. It seemed like Snow and the Whytes were way more connected to each other than Arya, who herself never even saw one until S8. There was so much build up to a final battle with the Night King and then it didn't really deliver. Anyway... it's done now. The dead are gone and we can move on with the main course.
I'm very curious how they're going to deal with Cersei now that all the northern armies are gone, including Dany's. Cersei could march on them now and they wouldn't stand a chance.
I felt E2 was filler, but necessary to bring so many character lines together. E3 really showed how much work they've put into this season, and I'm impressed over all.
I realize the Dothraki charge made zero tactical sense. They were in a defending position, so there was no need to attack, especially when the enemy could not be seen. But man, did it have theatrical impact. Knowing how effective they were in all their previous battles, it was creepy to see their torches go out one by one.
Arya's last minute save... didn't make much sense. She went from being totally trapped and helpless to suddenly making her way to Bran, when even John Snow couldn't? It seemed like an ex machina type plot device. Anyway, it was still a good ending. I was biting my nails the entire episode because it was just so intense. I thought over all they did an amazing job of production. It felt like watching a movie. I don't know how we can top it in the next 3 episodes.
About Melisandre... she was around 400 years old and was possibly immortal through the magic of her necklace. I feel that the episode was somehow about her. As a longstanding and powerful servant of the Lord of Light, she felt it was OK to die once the darkness was defeated. She always represented an arcane and old world knowledge, something that the modern era characters don't really understand. To me her death symbolized the end of an age. There may be more to it but somehow I doubt that.
My one main disappointment with E3 was that the Night King was killed by Arya, and John Snow didn't even have a final battle with him. It seemed like Snow and the Whytes were way more connected to each other than Arya, who herself never even saw one until S8. There was so much build up to a final battle with the Night King and then it didn't really deliver. Anyway... it's done now. The dead are gone and we can move on with the main course.
I'm very curious how they're going to deal with Cersei now that all the northern armies are gone, including Dany's. Cersei could march on them now and they wouldn't stand a chance.
I felt E2 was filler, but necessary to bring so many character lines together. E3 really showed how much work they've put into this season, and I'm impressed over all.
cduggles
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Nice reviews ?. I thought the episode was great.
A friend of mine called me just after it and tried to ruin it by picking it apart. Total wet rag. (My friend read the books, so...yeah, whatever. If I have to stick to the character storylines as opposed to inventorying a few narrative contrivances to enjoy something, I'll do it every time.)
******Spoilers ahead******
mal's questions :
- What do you guys think Bran was up to?
Not much. His character is now mildly annoying to me, but I'm happy he lived.
- What exactly was Melisandre's impact on the battle, other than the flaming swords and lighting the trench?
She inspired Arya, for one thing.
When Melisandre asked Arya about what she says to the god of death, and Arya sped off after saying "Not today", it was tremendous. Go ghost of Syrio!
- What's the connection between her, Arya, Bran...the lord of light/the old gods/the great other?
I don't think much except they are all touched by the supernatural (face-changing, nasty baby-making ?, and the gift of sight).
Bran is plugged into the children of the first men, the old gods, and weir wood trees.
Arya is caught up with the red god, death, and the Faceless men.
Melisandre is part of fake magic (she showed off her powders and potions), the lord of light, and sorcery.
The Dothraki horde charging was excellent. The visual was stunning.
To follow up, I think the Dothraki fight offensively, and how do you switch up your tactics to meet an enemy like that?
For example, the burning trenches lasted for just a little while until the dead started just plopping down into the fire (great plot device!), and it's because the enemy of the living doesn't care about dying. I love how everyone was shaken (except maybe the Unsullied?).
I thought more people would die, but I'm happy they are still around.
Jorah dying was filled with pathos. He went down swinging for Dany.
Theon had a great redemption, and it's nice that one occurred on the show.
Although some deaths were dramatic, I like that there weren't soppy last words or long drawn out deaths.
Also, I want Brienne and Jaime to hook up. Jaime should be with someone besides his sister, and Brienne deserves some love
!
Finally, excellent point that Cersei could attack now, but she's still stuck with Euron. ?
A friend of mine called me just after it and tried to ruin it by picking it apart. Total wet rag. (My friend read the books, so...yeah, whatever. If I have to stick to the character storylines as opposed to inventorying a few narrative contrivances to enjoy something, I'll do it every time.)
******Spoilers ahead******
mal's questions :
- What do you guys think Bran was up to?
Not much. His character is now mildly annoying to me, but I'm happy he lived.
- What exactly was Melisandre's impact on the battle, other than the flaming swords and lighting the trench?
She inspired Arya, for one thing.
When Melisandre asked Arya about what she says to the god of death, and Arya sped off after saying "Not today", it was tremendous. Go ghost of Syrio!
- What's the connection between her, Arya, Bran...the lord of light/the old gods/the great other?
I don't think much except they are all touched by the supernatural (face-changing, nasty baby-making ?, and the gift of sight).
Bran is plugged into the children of the first men, the old gods, and weir wood trees.
Arya is caught up with the red god, death, and the Faceless men.
Melisandre is part of fake magic (she showed off her powders and potions), the lord of light, and sorcery.
The Dothraki horde charging was excellent. The visual was stunning.
To follow up, I think the Dothraki fight offensively, and how do you switch up your tactics to meet an enemy like that?
For example, the burning trenches lasted for just a little while until the dead started just plopping down into the fire (great plot device!), and it's because the enemy of the living doesn't care about dying. I love how everyone was shaken (except maybe the Unsullied?).
I thought more people would die, but I'm happy they are still around.
Jorah dying was filled with pathos. He went down swinging for Dany.
Theon had a great redemption, and it's nice that one occurred on the show.
Although some deaths were dramatic, I like that there weren't soppy last words or long drawn out deaths.
Also, I want Brienne and Jaime to hook up. Jaime should be with someone besides his sister, and Brienne deserves some love
! Finally, excellent point that Cersei could attack now, but she's still stuck with Euron. ?
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nice summary @mal3volent - i agree with a lot of what you wrote.
the whole episode was great to me - i love how they set the table with the massive, terrifying dothraki hoard being snuffed out in 45 seconds
alasdair
the whole episode was great to me - i love how they set the table with the massive, terrifying dothraki hoard being snuffed out in 45 seconds
alasdair
Foreigner
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I'm wondering if Melisandre was being kept alive by the same power that the Night King used to raise the dead, but through her necklace. Once she took it off she withered to dust, and she did it just before the Sun came up. The theme is very "light in the dark". Maybe she had a score to settle with the Night King and now that the balance was restored she had to go as well. Just an idea.
It could also be that the death of the Night King and Melisandre represents the end of magic.
It could also be that the death of the Night King and Melisandre represents the end of magic.
CoastTwoCoast
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^ Oooh, I like that idea! Never thought about it like that.
I watched it again today and it was even better the second time around! Fuckin' Sam...I was still yelling at him to get up.
I watched it again today and it was even better the second time around! Fuckin' Sam...I was still yelling at him to get up.
cduggles
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i love how they set the table with the massive, terrifying dothraki hoard being snuffed out in 45 seconds
The reactions were great.
tathra
bluelighter
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the great other (night king) creates and directly controls wights as if they're an extension of his own body, using ice/dark magic, mel was kept alive the same way beric dondarrion, lady stoneheart, and jon snow were revived, using r'hllor's fire/light magic, which brings the individual fully back to life with their own will still intact
kinda disappointed that they dropped the whole azor ahai/prince that was promised plotline and we never saw the true lightbringer. too mystical for the show I guess
the night king tanking dragon fire and shrugging it off like its nothing was unexpected, since dragons are the embodiment of fire and the source of magic in that world
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I love all the extras after every episode. I wonder if that documentary they were talking about airing after the finale is all of this stuff pieced together, or is it something entirely original? Hoping for original obviously.
Thinking about it more...I hope we will have some more context to what went down between Bran and the night king. I really want to think Bran was doing something other than getting cool camera angles.
Thinking about it more...I hope we will have some more context to what went down between Bran and the night king. I really want to think Bran was doing something other than getting cool camera angles.
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Behind the scenes
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I read it as behindtheshadow at first which gives that sentence whole new meaning haha
cduggles
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Sorry for the jargon. Now, thanks to @mal3volent, It Is Known.
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I rewatched the episode...I gotta say...it was even better and made more sense to me the second time around.
But I'd still like to know what he was looking at/for the whole time. He found the night king almost instantly. His location was known. He knew ahead of time that he was marked and could be found at any time. Was he really just chilling, watching the battle the whole time? I think I would have tried to warg into Viserion or something.
But I'd still like to know what he was looking at/for the whole time. He found the night king almost instantly. His location was known. He knew ahead of time that he was marked and could be found at any time. Was he really just chilling, watching the battle the whole time? I think I would have tried to warg into Viserion or something.