Television Game of Thrones

[Escher's Waterfall]

So I'm rereading book #3, and it occurs to me:

(Book #3 spoilers, quite major ones)

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Sansa's marriage to Tyrion is just perfect. Seriously. By the standards of who she could marry, Tyrion is pretty damn good. His only flaw (to her) appears to be his whoring. And Sansa doesn't even know about that. She just hates him because she's an idiot and he's ugly and a Lannister.

But she utterly screws it up because she still thinks life is a song, and that good is beautiful and evil is ugly.

It's instant-karma in play.

Poor Tyrion though, he gets shit on throughout the series.

 

[Escher's Waterfall]

(Sorry for the triple post, but these posts are on entirely different subjects):

Guys and gals, meet Margaery Tyrell. Not sure if I like. I pictured her as younger. The actress is about 29. The character was in her teens. WTF?

 

[Kenickie]

EW -- don't you mean Sansa?

spoiler of some importance for anyone who hasn't finished the entire series

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And true, Sansa could have done a lot worse than Tyrion Lannister, as he would give her the utmost protection (just with the status) and credibility, not even taking into account that Tyrion sees the marriage for what it is, and refuses to foist himself upon her, even finding a clever way around the 'bedding ceremony' and all that shit. But then again, both of them had bigger things to attend to. If Sansa wasn't such a shit, she could have helped both herself, and Tyrion, with just communicating about things, instead she just quakes and fear and lets Tyrion take the rap for whatever. In my rewritten version, she and Tyrion meet in dragon skulls and tell each other of the messes/plans/whatever they have each gotten into, give words of warning, and dash opposite ways out of the dungeons -- no kissing or anything, just a quick grip of the hands to say I hope you don't die and the two of them vanish. Sadly, I don't write novels, much less this one.

 

[Escher's Waterfall]

Fixed the name.

(Book spoilers)

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As written, the books work. Sansa is believably stupid. I don't know how GRRM pulls it off, but she doesn't give the impression of grabbing onto the idiot ball just to move the plot forward.

And once you think about it, if it's genetic, it explains how Cat can be so dumb sometimes as well.

 

[Kenickie]

You know what? As characters, I prefer Sansa to her mother. Her mother rubbed me the wrong way from the get go with her hatred of Jon, and then all her choices from

[books]

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releasing Jamie on some whim that she'd get Sansa and Arya back (even though she didn't hear shit from anyone about Arya from when Ned was imprisoned onwards,) selling Robb out to the Freys, hanging Brienne of Tarth when Brienne had done nothing but try and help her, etc etc. Nymeria should have just let her rot. How the fuck is she still alive anyway? Catelyn the Stoneheart.

 

[Cyc]

Agreed ^

 

[Escher's Waterfall]

In response to Kenickie:

(Books 1-4 major spoilers)

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Yep, the whole Jamie for Sansa & Arya was bloody stupid. She kidnaps Tyrion in the first book, and yet is willing to trust him in the second? WTF? As long as she had Jamie, her children were safe.

Selling Robb to the Freys was to be expected. Robert wed Cersei for Lannister support, while Cat and her sister's marriage were both political in nature to support Robert's Rebellion. Off the top of my head, I can't think of a better choice for Robb. Lannisters were out. The Reach and the Stormlands were Renly's. From Cat's perspective, the Greyjoys should have been considered, with Asha being about the right age. The readers know it wouldn't have worked though.

Oh, and Cat's no longer alive. That's clear to everyone. She's just not dead either.

Beric, who suffered the same not-dead fate, was revived soon after death, it appears, and even he mentions the loss of his memories. Cat went mad right before death and was thrown into the river, where she floated for days. Clearly something broke, and she Came Back Wrong. I figure that Lady Stoneheart is mostly Cat's bloodlust and vengeance, and that everything else about her has faded away.

Prediction (includes major book spoilers)

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Undead Catelyn will be the instrument of Lord Frey's death.

 

[Kenickie]

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But Beric had been revived like 12 times or something crazy like that. And he still had a face. From what I understand, Lady Stoneheart doesn't even have a face.

as for your prediction...

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I agree. But with the size of the Frey brood, I would hope that it wouldn't be the end of just filthy Lord Frey, but all of his 90 strong heirs. Dirty backwater Kingdom that got themselves a Lordship by building a fucking bridge and taxing people. Also, why not have her ruin Littlefinger's plans more? Although it looks like it's all going his way, with Cersei fucking herself over and destroying the economy at such a rapid rate. Now, what about Greyjoy & Targareyns? Do they fit into his plans? I doubt things are going to go Greyjoy's way, especially since Dany by now, must know about the Dragon Horn.

 

[aanallein]

I don't think I was much smarter than Sansa when I was 13 and I wasn't some medieval age girl being held hostage by insanely blood thirsty crazies who bookspoiler

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marry me to a drunken whoring dwarf after chopping my dad's head off and systematically murder basically everybody I'm related to and everybody I've ever met (meanwhile beating me silly and threatening to put a baby in my stomach).

Just sayin'.

As for Cat..

bookspoiler

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She should f'ing know better. She pisses me off throughout this series. More than Nedd and more than Rob. GRRM is obviously trying to teach a lesson. In an honorless world, honor cannot survive. The Lannisters and all of their tools, from the subtle (Varys), to the backstabbing (Freys), to the outright inhuman (Cleganes), dominate the first 3 books because they are willing to go to any lengths for power. The Starks keep trying to do what's "right".. there is no right when you're dealing with wrong. Robb should have known better than to trust Walder Frey a 2nd time, let alone the first. Should have murdered all his children then pissed on the old man.

 

[ocean]

Oh damn.

 

[Escher's Waterfall]

But ______ had been revived like 12 times or something crazy like that. And he still had a face. From what I understand, __________ doesn't even have a face.

That should be in spoiler tags.

Answer:

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Cat spent days floating in the river. Beric was always quickly revived.

According to the ASoI&F wiki, she has a face, but her skin is the color of curdled milk from the water, with long scratches on her face, and she can't speak unless she covers the gaping hole in her neck, and even then, she's hard to understand.

Another Prediction (Book 5 or 6):

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Jon sees the fake Arya, identifies her as such, and Bolton's bastard gets what is coming to him.

 

[Kenickie]

prediction

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do you think Jon will also see/ hear of Littlefinger's bastard girl and identify her as Sansa? or be asked to identify her as Sansa when Littlefinger reveals her?

 

[ocean]

Wait:

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Sansa is not Ned's daughter??? No wonder ..........I thought, how could he have great kids and this one shitbag.
Who is Lyanna??

 

[Escher's Waterfall]

In regards to Ocean:

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Er, it's a long explanation. Short of it is that Sansa is Ned and Cat's daughter.

 

[ocean]

^ Aaaaaw man
That's too bad. Would have been a better twist there.

 

[Kenickie]

geeking:

i'm playing as house baratheon, PB as house lannister.

 

[aanallein]

Something about the books that I don't understand..

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These bastards all have amazing alcohol tolerance wtf.

 

[Escher's Waterfall]

Something about the books that I don't understand..

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These bastards all have amazing alcohol tolerance wtf.

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Lots of drinking going on. IIRC though, Robert was especially bad. The Red Priest was one of the few who could match him. Tyrion is easily an alcoholic. The North? I think its part of the culture.

OTOH, if it's supposed to be similar to history, the alcohol content might be especially low. For example, "small beer" (beer people drank instead of water) was pretty weak, and given to children and servants. It was probably healthier than water, given the times and lack of modern water treatment options. It was also common to water down wine during the medieval ages.

 

[Oxycondone]

How do you rate the card game? I'm really keen to buy it.

 

[axl blaze]

I wanted to wait until the first season of Game of Thrones was complete until I downloaded it entirely... and I just did so about a week ago!

I read the first book a long, long time ago. thankfully I forgot most of what was going on with it

what a great season, though! they really played up the whole "Sopranos meets the Hobbit" premise that I was looking for, in dealing with a bunch of conniving royalty

the characters are so awesome. I really despised most of the Lannisters in Jaime (I think that's the tall blonds name) and his incest twin Cesari. however, despite all inclinations, I found myself really really liking and rooting for the Half-Man Lannister. in a world where you are judged by how much better you can kill the man next to you, it's nice to see a man (or half-man ) get by on just wits alone

since most of the royal families lacked morals or any sort of sympathy towards the common man; I found myself liking characters who had respect for people (even if they were lower than them on the feudal totem pole). for this reason, I found myself enjoying the character of Lord Stark. Stark was forced to be judgmental due to him being a lord, but I felt like he could sift through the bullshit better than most. I also liked how this main character interacted with his children "daughters are more difficult than wars!" or something like that

Jon Snow and the Night Watch team were very entertaining as well. I found the character of Snow to be commendable

the Dragon Queen was perhaps the most kind-hearted. I hope now she can resurrect an empire to follow her due to the most recent events in the last episode of the first season

my favorite "houses" were the Northernmost House, led by Stark (I believe it was Winterfell). I also liked the "house" of the Nightwatch, if one could even call them that. but as far as my favorite house in the first season, I would have to go with the Dothraki people. they didn't have to deal with the bullshit of nobility, and all the mess that sort of stuff brings. their society was the most impressive because it didn't deal with money, and the nobility had to earn their position of power instead of having said power vested in them. Khal Drogo was freakin' awesome! I wish I could have learned more about his character before what happened to him

all in all, a great first season. I read voraciously, but when I'm done with my long list of books-to-read, I suppose I will check out the rest of this series. unlike most in this thread, I presume, I usually find fantasy and dragons worthless, unimaginative, and too much of the same (I'm more of a sci-fi nerd). however, if the fantasy is well done, like the Lord of the Rings series, then it's well done. and the novels seem to be just that