First Non-Oral Only Cycle

H

Hunterdog

Bluelighter
Joined
Dec 14, 2009
Messages
70
Location
California, USA
Hello all. First, allow me to introduce myself. I am a 58 year old male who has been lifting off and on my entire adult life. These past two years however I have hit the gym harder and with greater determination than I EVER have before. During those two years I have done three or four "oral only" cycles and am preparing for an injectable cycle that will begin in two weeks. My proposed Cycle:

Sustanon - 250 mg/week
Deca-Durabolin - 200 mg/week
Stanozolol - 50 mg every 3 or 4 days

Also plan on pyramiding Oral D-Bol

Nolvadex at 10 - 20 mg/day

So, my question is; How does all this look? I have Clenbuterol at my disposal but not sure if I will throw it into the mix or not.

ANY tips, cautions, pointers and advice would be greatly appreciated. Especially concerned about libido as I have in the past experienced low libido during the oral cycles.

Thanks a ton.

Hunterdog
 
1st Injectable Cycle - Advice?

Hello all. First, allow me to introduce myself. I am a 58 year old male who has been lifting off and on my entire adult life. These past two years however I have hit the gym harder and with greater determination than I EVER have before. During those two years I have done three or four "oral only" cycles and am preparing for an injectable cycle that will begin in two weeks. My proposed Cycle:

Sustanon - 250 mg/week
Deca-Durabolin - 200 mg/week
Stanozolol - 50 mg every 3 or 4 days

Also plan on pyramiding Oral D-Bol

Nolvadex at 10 - 20 mg/day

So, my question is; How does all this look? I have Clenbuterol at my disposal but not sure if I will throw it into the mix or not.

ANY tips, cautions, pointers and advice would be greatly appreciated. Especially concerned about libido as I have in the past experienced low libido during the oral cycles.

Thanks a ton.

Hunterdog
 
For a first time injectable cycle, I would suggest that you run test alone (not sustanon)...perhaps with a little dbol up front.

Please read the rules http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=211091 and provide us with a little more info about yourself (height, weight, bf%, etc.) and we will do what we can to help you out and point you in the right direction. Welcome aboard.

/V
 
VictorZ06 said:
For a first time injectable cycle, I would suggest that you run test alone (not sustanon)...perhaps with a little dbol up front.

Please read the rules http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=211091 and provide us with a little more info about yourself (height, weight, bf%, etc.) and we will do what we can to help you out and point you in the right direction. Welcome aboard.

/V
Click to expand...

After perusing the site, I was just getting ready to do that.

58 year old male
6'-3"
200 lbs (down 50 lbs over the past two years)
bf is currently at around 18% I would like to get it down to below 10%. REALLY tough at this age.

I hit the weights 5 days/week, working every body part once a week.

Monday = Abs / Obliques / Core
Tuesday = Legs
Wednesday = Back
Thursday = Off or Cardio only
Friday = Shoulders
Saturday = My heavy, heavy day. Chest, Biceps, Triceps
Sunday = Off

I would love to do more cardio than just once a week but when I do, my right ankle / knee / foot really talk and object loudly. At 58 I am hitting the weights as hard as I can, that is to say I feel if I were to lift significantly heavier or more frequently than every body part once per week, I am risking injury and feel now that I am BARELY recovering between sessions.

Diet is mostly clean but I am probably under caloried if anything.

Without question I am in MUCH, MUCH better shape at 58 than I have EVER been before. Muscularly anyway. Skelatally (joints) however I have the usual aches and pains of a guy who has worked construction all his life.

My work ethic in the gym is unequalled. No bullshitting, no conversation when I am there. I just get down to business and throw the weights as much as I can.

GOALS? Well, like everyone I'd like to pack on lean muscle and cut the bf to a sub 10% range.

Thanks to anyone who has "been there / done that" and has constructive comments about the upcoming cycle.

BTW, I've got all the gear on hand so mostly I'm looking for what to look for, libido problems I might face, expected gains, anything any of YOU may have experienced when on a similar cycle.

Thanks again.

Hunterdog
 
Hunterdog said:
After perusing the site, I was just getting ready to do that.

58 year old male
6'-3"
200 lbs (down 50 lbs over the past two years)
bf is currently at around 18% I would like to get it down to below 10%. REALLY tough at this age.

Monday = Abs / Obliques / Core
Tuesday = Legs
Wednesday = Back
Thursday = Off or Cardio only
Friday = Shoulders
Saturday = My heavy, heavy day. Chest, Biceps, Triceps
Sunday = Off

I would love to do more cardio than just once a week but when I do, my right ankle / knee / foot really talk and object loudly.
GOALS? Well, like everyone I'd like to pack on lean muscle and cut the bf to a sub 10% range.

Hunterdog
Click to expand...

I would change up your workout routine. I would go:
d1: chest and tri
d2:back and bi
d3:cardio/core
d4:shoulders
d5:legs
d6:break/cardio/core

That is my schedule. The problems I see with yours is that your shoulder day is rite before your "heavy chest day". You are not going to be able to do a heavy chest day having hit your shoulders the day before. Also, You hit your biceps really hard when working your back, so you should include bis on your back day.

You should also look into swimming for your cardio, very low impact. Gonna be hard to shed 8%bf in one cycle, but Good luck.
 
Sustanon is a poor choice of test. I strongly suggest picking out a single ester test, sustanon is a poor choice because it causes your plasma levels to flux, and you want them at a constant rate. Sustanon is a blended mix of different types of testosterone....each kicking in at different times, not ideal. 250mg of Sustanon EW will probably do more harm than good, IMHO. Anything short of 500mg is not worth it, IMHO.

As for your age, let me first say I'm very impressed. Keep up your good work. You mentioned stanozolol (winny). I have to say that this stuff is KILLER for someone of your age....especially in your case because you mentioned that your have joint problems and that you feel that you are risking injury to your body. Winny will cause you to become more prone to injury and it really does take it's toll on your joints.

Now, you mentioned you wanted to use deca. Deca is great stuff, and used right, it's probably one of my favorite AAS to use. You also asked if there might be any libido issues. Deca has a rep for lowering your libido. I found that if you use too much, your libido will crash. And believe me, "deca dick" is not a myth.

Your doses are off, IMHO. I would run 500mg a week of test, and 400mg a week of deca. Like I said above, I suggest doing a test only cycle first....but if you do decide to go ahead and stack them, double your dose from 200mg a week to 400mg a week. Run the cycle for 10-12 weeks and stop the deca two weeks before you stop taking the test (less time if you are running prop).

I would hold off on the clen for now. Clen is some powerful stuff and it's best left to those who have a few more cycles under their belt.

Proviron is your friend. I strongly suggest running 50-75mg ed of it. It really does boost my libido and in the morning, there is wood. ;) You can run it along side of the nolva at 10mg ed.

In short, I think you are taking a huge leap from what you ran in the past, to what you are planning on doing now. Taking test, deca, clen, winny, dbol, etc. all at once for someone who ran a few oral cycles is a giant leap. I strongly urge you to reconsider...you will be surprised what 500mg of test alone a week can do to you. Good luck.

/V
 
VictorZ06 said:
Sustanon is a poor choice of test. I strongly suggest picking out a single ester test, sustanon is a poor choice because it causes your plasma levels to flux, and you want them at a constant rate. Sustanon is a blended mix of different types of testosterone....each kicking in at different times, not ideal. 250mg of Sustanon EW will probably do more harm than good, IMHO. Anything short of 500mg is not worth it, IMHO.

As for your age, let me first say I'm very impressed. Keep up your good work. You mentioned stanozolol (winny). I have to say that this stuff is KILLER for someone of your age....especially in your case because you mentioned that your have joint problems and that you feel that you are risking injury to your body. Winny will cause you to become more prone to injury and it really does take it's toll on your joints.

Now, you mentioned you wanted to use deca. Deca is great stuff, and used right, it's probably one of my favorite AAS to use. You also asked if there might be any libido issues. Deca has a rep for lowering your libido. I found that if you use too much, your libido will crash. And believe me, "deca dick" is not a myth.

Your doses are off, IMHO. I would run 500mg a week of test, and 400mg a week of deca. Like I said above, I suggest doing a test only cycle first....but if you do decide to go ahead and stack them, double your dose from 200mg a week to 400mg a week. Run the cycle for 10-12 weeks and stop the deca two weeks before you stop taking the test (less time if you are running prop).

I would hold off on the clen for now. Clen is some powerful stuff and it's best left to those who have a few more cycles under their belt.

Proviron is your friend. I strongly suggest running 50-75mg ed of it. It really does boost my libido and in the morning, there is wood. ;) You can run it along side of the nolva at 10mg ed.

In short, I think you are taking a huge leap from what you ran in the past, to what you are planning on doing now. Taking test, deca, clen, winny, dbol, etc. all at once for someone who ran a few oral cycles is a giant leap. I strongly urge you to reconsider...you will be surprised what 500mg of test alone a week can do to you. Good luck.

/V
Click to expand...


Victor:

Thanks for the input. I do have a few questions however. I'm a bit confused about a few of your comments. Before I ask for clarification however I wanted to say how appreciative I am for the insights you offer.

I have done some oral Stanozolol before without any joint issues. Is the injectable more of a problem?

Also, I'm confused at your encouragement to up the dosage of the deca to 400 mg/week. If deca-dick is a real concern, aren't I just increasing my likelihood of dealing with it by upping the dose?

I will heed your advice and forego the Clen for now. I agree with your observation that it's a HUGE step from three oral-only cycles to the mix I had planned.

As for the Sustanon; if I up the dosage to 500 mg/week would that be a once a week dosage or should I spread the 500 mg into two seperate shots?

I do have Proviron at my disposal and will administer as you suggested at 50 - 75 mg/day. Would I run this only for the duration of the cycle?

As far as libido issues are concerned, the problems I had on the oral only cycles in the past is that I felt like I had suffered a bit of testicular shrinkage. Not the nad it'self but the sack never, ever hung loose and I had a really low sex drive. The situation DID reverse it'self after about 4 weeks of PCT but that's ALWAYS a concern when the twins aren't up to snuff.

I know that at my age I don't have the latitude that the younger guys have but I'm so determined to push the envelope of what I can attain that I want to explore anything I can to acheive my goals.

So, I guess all my questions can be reduced to these few. If I up the Sust to 500 mg/week will that work? I only ask because I have it on hand and don't want to waste it.

Is the deca a bad idea at my age?

Oh..................just thought of a few others.

Any thoughts of pyramiding the oral d-bol along with this cycle? I've run the oral d-bol on three previous cycles without any issue other than the low libido.

What are your thoughts for on-cycle anti-estrogen help? Nolva? Femara? (I have both).

I REALLY appreciate your input.

Hunterdog
 
LawnChairSkank said:
I would change up your workout routine. I would go:
d1: chest and tri
d2:back and bi
d3:cardio/core
d4:shoulders
d5:legs
d6:break/cardio/core

That is my schedule. The problems I see with yours is that your shoulder day is rite before your "heavy chest day". You are not going to be able to do a heavy chest day having hit your shoulders the day before. Also, You hit your biceps really hard when working your back, so you should include bis on your back day.

You should also look into swimming for your cardio, very low impact. Gonna be hard to shed 8%bf in one cycle, but Good luck.
Click to expand...

Funny you should mention that. I have been thinking of making similar changes myself. You are right. Working shoulders the day before my heavy day is not good at all.

Thanks for the suggestions. I think I'll change things up next week.
 
Hunterdog said:
Victor:

Thanks for the input. I do have a few questions however. I'm a bit confused about a few of your comments. Before I ask for clarification however I wanted to say how appreciative I am for the insights you offer.

I have done some oral Stanozolol before without any joint issues. Is the injectable more of a problem?

Also, I'm confused at your encouragement to up the dosage of the deca to 400 mg/week. If deca-dick is a real concern, aren't I just increasing my likelihood of dealing with it by upping the dose?

I will heed your advice and forego the Clen for now. I agree with your observation that it's a HUGE step from three oral-only cycles to the mix I had planned.

As for the Sustanon; if I up the dosage to 500 mg/week would that be a once a week dosage or should I spread the 500 mg into two seperate shots?

I do have Proviron at my disposal and will administer as you suggested at 50 - 75 mg/day. Would I run this only for the duration of the cycle?

As far as libido issues are concerned, the problems I had on the oral only cycles in the past is that I felt like I had suffered a bit of testicular shrinkage. Not the nad it'self but the sack never, ever hung loose and I had a really low sex drive. The situation DID reverse it'self after about 4 weeks of PCT but that's ALWAYS a concern when the twins aren't up to snuff.

I know that at my age I don't have the latitude that the younger guys have but I'm so determined to push the envelope of what I can attain that I want to explore anything I can to acheive my goals.

So, I guess all my questions can be reduced to these few. If I up the Sust to 500 mg/week will that work? I only ask because I have it on hand and don't want to waste it.

Is the deca a bad idea at my age?

Oh..................just thought of a few others.

Any thoughts of pyramiding the oral d-bol along with this cycle? I've run the oral d-bol on three previous cycles without any issue other than the low libido.

What are your thoughts for on-cycle anti-estrogen help? Nolva? Femara? (I have both).

I REALLY appreciate your input.

Hunterdog
Click to expand...

HD,

No problem, I'll be happy to help however I can.

In reference to the winny, if you take it orally, inject oil or water versions, it's all the same. Lots of guys squirt the injectable stuff under their tongue. All produce the same effect.

Deca. Many athletes use deca for several reasons. Some use it to cut, others use it to bulk. Also, you will find many athletes using minimal amounts simply to help their joints so they can have easier and more productive workouts. Those who use deca for joint issues alone run about 200mg every week. 200mg of deca a week is a very low dose, and if you are not using it just for joint issues, I think it's a waste of time and $$. Now at 400mg, you got something going there...and at the same time, 400mg shouldn't interfere with your libido. I've found that the tipping point for libido loss for most is 500mg+ a week. If you run the proviron along side it, you shouldn't have any problems.

Sustanon. I urge you to pick another form of test. There all far to many downfalls when compared to test enanthate or cyp. Try and get another form of test. If Sust is all you have to work with, hit 250mg 2X a week (500mg total). But again, I really suggest finding another form of test...especially since this your first real cycle.

Proviron. Start it day one of your first shot, and stop two weeks after your last shot, right before you begin PCT.

You can avoid testicular atrophy (shrinkage) by running HCG along side of your program. 300iu E5D is an average dose, something along those lines/doses. On your oral cycles, did you run any HCG? If you didn't, that would explain why your testicles shrank. Some use HCG after cycles, this method is used to bring the testis back to normal size. If you run it starting week 2 until the end, you won't have any shrinkage.

The deca is not a bad idea at your age, as it will help your joints with pain. Deca is known for producing water retention around our joints, making work outs much more efficient.

Dbol. Do not pyramid it. If you decide to go ahead and take it, I'd suggest taking it for about 5 weeks at around 30mg ED. You got testicular atrophy because you didn't run any HCG. Use it, and your balls won't shrink.

Nolva works. I try to avoid it when I can as it sometimes produces a "rebound effect" causing gyno post cycle. IF you do use nolva, be sure to taper your dose off. I'd run the proviron instead and keep the nolva on hand in case of a gyno break out.

Hope I answered all your questions, best of luck and keep us posted.

/V
 
Not much to add apart from that pyramiding went out in the 80's and one of the newer AI's is a better choice for on cycle estrogen control than Nolvadex. The winny should be run higher than what your doing- its got a pretty short half life so once a day dosing is best.

Running straight test (at 500mg/ew) or test+dbol is a good, simple and effective cycle.
 
Thanks everyone. I have some Cypioject on the way and will use it instead of the Sust. I need to get some hCG coming as well before I start.

Again, I appreciate every suggestion. I recognize that I am in a foreign land here and appreciate any directions.

Hunterdog
 
Hunterdog said:
Thanks everyone. I have some Cypioject on the way and will use it instead of the Sust. I need to get some hCG coming as well before I start.

Again, I appreciate every suggestion. I recognize that I am in a foreign land here and appreciate any directions.

Hunterdog
Click to expand...

Thanks for listening to the advice and actually applying it...Expect to get great keepable gains with this stack if your diet and training are in check. keep us posted and start a new log thread when you begin pinning.
 
Clomid for PCT

I have REALLY appreciated all the suggestions and advice you all have offered. I am starting my cycle tomorrow and as per the suggestions you all have offered I will be doing 500 mg/week of Cypioject and 400 mg/week of Deca, both for 12 weeks. I will also be doing Proviron and hCG throughout. I have Nolvadex on hand if required.

A few last questions:

1. Should I split the Test and Deca into two seperate doses or do it all once per week?
2. How long should I continue the Proviron and hCG?
3. When should I start the Clomid? (I'm thinkink two weeks after the last shot.)

Really excited about this cycle. I've been training as hard as I possibly could for the past two years, diet is almost completely clean but I recognize that I need to up the calories / number of meals I consume every day. I'm really, REALLY excited about this cycle.

Thanks to everyone. I'll definitely post experiences and progress and / or any problems I encounter along the way.

Hunterdog
 
1. Yes, pin 2X a week.
2. Stop proviron 2 weeks after your last shot, right before PCT. Start HCG on week two, stop day of last shot.
3. Start clomid 2 weeks after last shot, like you said.

One thing more...you mentioned that you are going to run both the deca and the test for 12 weeks. Cut the deca two weeks before you cut the test as deca has a longer ester and needs more time to clear. So 12 weeks test, 10 weeks deca. Good luck.

/V
 
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