film: alice in wonderland (tim burton)

[Max Power]

i'll bring my nunchucks just in case.

:Dxxxx

 

[L2R]

MC is a force to be reckoned with and I'm not so sure we'd prevail against her.

I'll bring my nunchucks just in case.

not sure how much that'd help. i'm pretty sure i've seen a photo of her with an AK-47 one time. srs

 

[EJ]

my feelings exactly
(together, we might stand a chance against mc)


but i won't miss this spectacle in 3d on the biggest screen in the world, which happens to be 100m from my front door, especially since i have an unlimited source of AUD$10 tickets (rather than the full AUD$27).

You live in Darling Harbour Maccas?

 

[L2R]

one of the two

 

[mariacallas]

not sure how much that'd help. i'm pretty sure i've seen a photo of her with an AK-47 one time. srs

My my my what a good memory yew have mate!

 

[tribal girl]

I remember the AK-47 too. You had a bit of a Patty Hearst thing going on in that pic.

Too cool for school.

 

[Feste]

Alice in Wonderland will not be shown in Odeon cinemas here in the UK, Italy or Ireland.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/8528820.stm

This would be a pain in the arse if I hadn't given up hope with Burton.

 

[TheLoveBandit]

I think that Carroll's Alice in Wonderland (probably my favourite work of literature alongside the similar Fairytales of Oscar Wilde) posess a certain type of ironic humour that I find to be completely lost on many of my North American (ie. Candian and American) friends. It seems they tend to interpret a lot of it as "cheesy". I guess there is a sort of cultural incongruity involved.

I'd be interested to see this film get off the gound without the need to resort to the "goth alice" that a lot of North Americans seem to like.

As it stands, I think this will be an utter failure, since the magic of alice in wonderland is largely dependant on word-play and logical fallacy/paradox, both of which are very difficult (impossible?) to present as film.

I understand your statements, and appreciate that a) it is your opinion, and b ) it was a generalization, not an attack. That said, I know a lot of people who enjoy 'Brit humour', myself among them. We just happen to be in the minority. Likewise, I know your allusion to 'goth Alice' and I don't know how much of that is a desire by the 'NA Public' versus a force-fed concept from Hollyweird (as they are known for riding what's recently hot, such as the darker images of the Twighlight series, the popularity of some other 'dark' movies), and the selection of Tim Burton to direct this, given his naturally dark tendencies. However, 'dark' does not automatically mean 'goth'.

What really got me was the last bit, which got other replies:

I agree, the literary surrealism that made this work so unique and timeless is next to impossible to accurately replicate onto the silver screen.

It would have to be a dialogue-heavy/driven film for it to have a chance, imo.

Something tells me this movie will skip over that and focus more on the CG special effects than any wordplay. Which is sad.

THIS. Some of the films that have stayed closes to my inner self for enjoyment were based on intelligent wordplay, and contextual refrences that can largely enhance a story - but it is harder and harder to work those into a film, given the vast sea of current films that rely so heavily on pretty faces, simple plots, and the occasional blood bath. I, too, would be afraid they bypass the additional, and much more rewarding, layer of dialogue and insight as they have jumped on a visionary (delusionary?) director and thrown the film into 3D. Where will their priorities be? Will they even try to keep the intelligence to it?

I'm an old grump but I automatically start discrediting a film when I find out it's going to be 3-D. The only reason I have to back it up is I don't think it's going to be a seriously good movie... just one that has some pretty candy for the eyes. I guess I agree with MP that I'm worried they'll focus so much on the effects that the rest of it will come up lacking.

This is true to some degree, as I just mentioned, but I have to also step back and point out we are most likely reaching a turning point in visual communications. Technology has reached a point where 3D is becoming more available, and there are efforts everywhere to get it in front of people more. Yes, the main drive is to give your product some 'cutting edge' feature like CGI and 3D, but it is also being driven by the production side looking to recoup investment in the technology by applying it everywhere. You've got 3D coming to TV soon (ESPN plans a launch of 3D programming relatively soon), and more and more movies will have this 3D imagery as well.

Consider it a repeat of when movies went from silent to sound ('Oh the horror, will they stop trying to have the actors be so expressive now that they can convey it with voice?' IMO, yeah, they did), or from b&w to color ('Oh the horror, will they lose the quality of lighting, camera work, and set design as they simply overpower the viewer with these color images?' Meh, not so much), or as special effects progressed from stop motion, to blue screen, to CGI. It is one more step on the evolution of of the industry. I don't think we can get too upset about it, nor criticize the industry in their choice of where to apply it.

And for God's sake, as much as I like Johnny Depp, why can't Burton use someone else for a change. 8)

LOL....my thought exactly, and I love Depp as well. Though, admittedly, I've had a bad taste of Burton ever since Nightmare (personal reasons = the quality of the movie could not overcome a horrible, horrible date). I can appreciate Burton's imagery at times, and recognize to the point of accepting his general take on things (I have yet to watch his Wonka, though). That said, I will never go to a film because he made it, though I may avoid a film because he made it. This one, I'll probably see. Not for Depp, nor the 3D, nor the CGI, nor the 'sequel' aspects, but for all these reasons - I'll go in with an open mind, and low expectations. We'll see if I come out disappointed.

 

[AmorRoark]

This is true to some degree, as I just mentioned, but I have to also step back and point out we are most likely reaching a turning point in visual communications. Technology has reached a point where 3D is becoming more available, and there are efforts everywhere to get it in front of people more. Yes, the main drive is to give your product some 'cutting edge' feature like CGI and 3D, but it is also being driven by the production side looking to recoup investment in the technology by applying it everywhere. You've got 3D coming to TV soon (ESPN plans a launch of 3D programming relatively soon), and more and more movies will have this 3D imagery as well.

Consider it a repeat of when movies went from silent to sound ('Oh the horror, will they stop trying to have the actors be so expressive now that they can convey it with voice?' IMO, yeah, they did), or from b&w to color ('Oh the horror, will they lose the quality of lighting, camera work, and set design as they simply overpower the viewer with these color images?' Meh, not so much), or as special effects progressed from stop motion, to blue screen, to CGI. It is one more step on the evolution of of the industry. I don't think we can get too upset about it, nor criticize the industry in their choice of where to apply it..

I think you're misunderstanding me or maybe we just disagree. I didn't say that 3-D films in the future won't be excellent cinematic gems, or that zero 3-D films to date have reached greatness. However, the overwhelming majority of the ones I've seen focus so heavily on the eye-candy element that it lacks in the story/acting/everything else important in fantastic film creation. From what I can tell, Alice isn't going to be much better than Avatar (which I thought was lacking in a lot of ways).

I feel we can criticize whatever we want, btw. I understand the evolution is normal but it doesn't mean the films in the 'in-between' stage aren't going to be legitimately lacking. The lacking may be understandable but that doesn't mean I can't criticize them for not being up to snuff. After all, critiques are part of the process of moving us along from the in-between stage to the greatness stage in the next new phase of filmmaking. No?

Along the lines of what you outlined, it's hard for me to not compare this stage in film history to others. I find that other types of developments figured out how to implement the technology while still managing to keep the other important elements of the film within the high standards quicker than 3-D (that is, widely-publicized/ high-budget/ large viewership stage of development of the technology... that is, what I see as particular 'turning points'). I mean, 3-D has not, IMO, been like the color switch (i.e. Gone with the Wind & Wizard of Oz); or, CGI for that matter (Jurassic Park, Toy Story). I'm not to terribly well-versed in film technological development history but going off what I know, that's where I stand.

 

[TheLoveBandit]

I think I'm standing pretty close to where you are I wholeheartedly agree with your point that technological advance does not require that substance take a back seat....but that 3D has done just that for the most part. I just got up on a soapbox and rambled after that

 

[AmorRoark]

Right on. Care to step a bit to the left so we can stand on that soapbox together??

 

[vegan]

Brit humour

what is your favourite colour?
blue! - no, yellAHHHHHH! ...

 

[TheLoveBandit]

Decent reference, though I always go back to the question of an African or European swallow. And ftr, I take my humour all the way back to Good Neighbors, and on into the 80's and 90's. Fawltey Towers will always be atop my favorites of any comedy.

 

[Pillthrill]

Wait, wait, wait. How can it have 3, 5 star ratings when it isn't out until March 5th?

 

[L2R]

^people are stupidheads, that's why

that and the crew and cast are all secret bluelight members. i think tlb is depp.

 

[AmorRoark]

Why even put up the possibility to rate before it premiers?

 

[Pillthrill]

I say pull poll until out.
Bias BS.
Not that I'm saying it won't kick ass.

 

[lostpunk5545]

I'm so fucking sick of CGI. I'm not seeing this or Avatar. CGI can suck my balls.

 

[Max Power]

poll closed pending further investigation!

 

[AmorRoark]