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  • EADD Moderators: Pissed_and_messed | Shinji Ikari

Etizolam ran out fuck guys :(

Where I live in the US we have a law that protects us from that. Louisiana Act religious freedom. I am sorry brother. These are molecular sacraments that bring us closer to God. Not that I believe in that just that is our best defense freedom of choice and thought. I have the right to exercise my freedom
 
@MDB - while i have gone to lengths looking at the problems of doing a diy diclazepam detox, we are singing from the same hymn sheet with regards to its effects - its functionality makes it the best RC to use in these situations for the exact reasons you stated. If you do have control over your taper (and by this I mean trusting yourself to stick to it) then you can incorporate further elements that a structured or inpatient detox would feature, such as the occasional use of PRN (pro re nata) - as required medication. Ive cared for alot of people undergoing inpatient detox's for alcohol using chlordiazepoxide or diazepam. The patients prescriptions would allow for an extra dose of benzodiazepine to be given to get people over rough spots, this would be monitored by the medical staff to make sure the PRN wasnt being overused to the degree that it would interfere with the whole taper.

Usually this would involve a 'top up' of there primary prescription - an extra 20mg of chlordiazepoxide for instance on days when people were struggling. The more progressive doctors would add a second benzodiazepine just for PRN, as anxiety would be the main problem 9 times out of ten, and as long as the original treatment plan was instigated properly these symptoms might not have necessarily been a primary withdrawal problem. 1-2mg lorazepam would be the answer, probably the most widely prescribed benzodiazepine for any hospital inpatient, due to its quick onset of action even when taken orally, its uniqueness in its ability to be administered via 3 different ROA (its the only benzo that can be given IM with predictable results) and its duration of effect (proper 'intermediate' - not too short, not too long)

As youve said MDB, extra doses of diclazepam on these occasions may not be helpfull, but consider using a little pyrazolam for anxiety if your sticking with the rcs, which could be combined with a small dose of promethazine at bedtime if sleeps an issue. I wouldnt recommend flubromazpam at all - its a bit too nice for its own good, and despite its excellent sedative qualities its long duration of action will quickly fuck up your overall taper.

Despite coming close several times, and my hopeless addiction to heroin, ive always managed to avoid severe benzodiazepine dependance by the skin of my teeth, so ive never had more than one physical addiction at the same time. As such i cant comment on the kratom, ive never used it, all i can advise is to stabilise yourself on both of your current drugs of dependance, and then deal with them one at a time, and once your shut of the first lot, think very carefully before using the same thing to try and help with the other. Circles are vicious as fuck, despite their safe round looking nature.
 
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I moved to diclazepam from etizolam... Just generally, not daily. Not sure what relevance this has, as it's been answered already no doubt!

I would have moved from short half life 6 hours etiz to diclaz or another long half life legal benzo then taper properly.

A friend in a similar situation is trying to achieve this, could elaborate more on your process/best practised/dose advise if possible?

Yeah im gonna go to diclaz from etiz as well,

Please do keep the thread updated with your progress.

This friend is highly dependant on etizolam, and has built up a tolerance over 2 years resulting in the need for high doses of etizolam. The dosage is steady/SLOWLY decreasing for about a year however is still very high. He is voluntarily involved counselling and medical/rehab support, however due to the nature of RC's, specialist support is limited.

He is attempting a taper off onto Diclazepam, and would appreciate information advice from those doing this or those who have achieved this. Or any positive experiences at all with tapering off high etizolam usage. Information he has read regarding the effects of etizolam vs diclazepam are not promising. It is noted Diclazapam has a longer half life which could help with taperring or fully quitting.

He also noticed a trend in the major suppliers completely pulling this product, with talk it will not be restocked. Without trying to tread on forum rules, is there any solid information on this? He has noticed a similar RC DeschloroEtizolam coming into the market as this is pulled, does anyone have experience with that?

Any advice on tapering off Etizolam would be much appreciated by my friend.
 
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Information he has read regarding the effects of etizolam vs diclazepam are not promising. It is noted Diclazapam has a longer half life which could help with taperring or fully quitting.

Do you mean that diclaz looks much more promising than etiz? Even though diclaz has never been a proper medical treatemnt afaik, and as such is completely underresearched, again afaik, side effects etc are completely unknown. I hope to be using diclaz at much lower doses and for a much shorter period of time than etiz. Partly because of all the unknowns. Though i must admit when i first started taking etiz i read every post in every megathread about the stuff to find out as much as possible, but i havent had the same level of interest or motivation for some reason to do the same thing with diclaz.

Stee thanks for your reply. All valuable information for which im gratefull. I do have some pyraz, i have been taking small doses of that on some days when i feel the need for a top up that isnt more diclaz or etiz. I guess ive been practicing PRN medication without ever having herad of it, or knowing what it was called, only going off my own internalised cravingometer. At this stage im still very pleased that ive reduced my benzo consumption by aroung 70% over the last few months. And its been completely painless, and my tolerance must be reducing all the while too. I see no problems maintaining my current dose or even trimming a bit more off it.

Kratom is a different story, its like i always feel that i can never get enough. Topping up with occasional 'proper opis' probably doesnt help as that probably raises my tolerance and makes kratom even more ineffective/only partially satisfying. im already alternating strains which has helped stretch out the useful lifespan of kratom.

I do have a plan to improve the situation though, which is to take as many days as possible saturating my receptors with kratom stem and vein which is said to be full of antagonists for the receptors where kratom leaf powders act as agonists. This is said to help a bit with resetting tolerance and even reducing the time by half in which it takes the brain to reset back to normal if you try to taper off and withdraw completely using this method. Its now just a matter of finding a good time, like theres ever a good time to go through with things like this.
 
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I reckon that 'doesnt look promising' probably refers to the fact that diclaz isnt as good for getting twatted off as etiz.

Most comparisons between rc's so far are with regard to abuse potentials, not as treatments. When it comes to opiate or benzo detox, the medical community will always use long acting compounds over short ones.
 
I've bitched about this elsewhere on BL but we're going to come a cropper soon with this lot with a lot of harmed people. Diclazepam is not the new new wonder replacement to etizilam. I',m still fucked out my face and have it in my system because of its longer half life long after the party I would have popped a etiz for a come down. This means its in my system in my working week - where it has no place to be.

The stuff coming through is dodgy as fuck too - playing roulette we are. This situation is getting messy and they're going to be more trouble. Err on the side of caution, try to leave it alone until the dust settles...
 
Its not a replacement or a treatment - in fact its difficult to say whether or not access to this drug is a good thing or not - on one hand it has helped someonewhat as the etizolam has dried up, the cross tolerance has given folk some time to get a handle on things and start making decisions on what to do. Yet, as ive said in nearly every post, benzo detox is complicated and potentially dangerous - medical help is really needed to sort this out properly.
 
I reckon that 'doesnt look promising' probably refers to the fact that diclaz isnt as good for getting twatted off as etiz.

Most comparisons between rc's so far are with regard to abuse potentials, not as treatments. When it comes to opiate or benzo detox, the medical community will always use long acting compounds over short ones.

Long or short, people think they are better actors on them. if only you could remember what your role was 8(
 
zzz101 whats a legit site or plug I can use to get some benzo powder myself? I cant find anywhere that seems like its not a scam
 
so i have 1g of diazepam , best way to start off tapering? im currently taking 40mg and finding that helps but im going for 37.5 tonight, will see how i fare, its mad because i swear the etiz i was getting 8mg doses wernt nearly as effective, but then again the half life of diazepam must be more effective than etiz, anyways will 1gram see me through this pain? all i can do is lie here most days :-( i think every 4 days cut 2.5mg off my dose? fuck u government!!!
 
If you haven't already read it, this http://www.benzo.org.uk/manual/ is essential reading.

One gram is unlikely to be enough for a slow taper. Going down linearly from 40 mg., you will get through 1000 mg. in just 50 days (the graph of amount of drug per day against time is a triangle; the area, which represents the total amount of drug taken during the amount of time, is half the base times the height; and you know the area is 1000 mg. and the height is 40 mg./day, so that puts the base at 1000 / (40 * .5) = 1000 / 20 = 50 days.) That is going to be brutal.

On the other hand, if it's all you've got, then you may as well go for it. This is how it works out, starting from 37.5 mg.:
Code:
... DAY    mg.   rounded to nearest 2.5
      1   37.5    37.5
      2   36.8    35.0
      3   36.0    35.0
      4   35.2    35.0
      5   34.5    32.5
      6   33.8    32.5
      7   33.0    32.5
      8   32.2    30.0
      9   31.5    30.0
     10   30.8    30.0
     11   30.0    30.0
     12   29.2    27.5
     13   28.5    27.5
     14   27.8    27.5
     15   27.0    25.0
     16   26.2    25.0
     17   25.5    25.0
     18   24.7    22.5
     19   24.0    22.5
     20   23.2    22.5
     21   22.5    22.5
     22   21.8    20.0
     23   21.0    20.0
     24   20.2    20.0
     25   19.5    17.5
     26   18.8    17.5
     27   18.0    17.5
     28   17.2    15.0
     29   16.5    15.0
     30   15.8    15.0
     31   15.0    15.0
     32   14.2    12.5
     33   13.5    12.5
     34   12.7    12.5
     35   12.0    10.0
     36   11.3    10.0
     37   10.5    10.0
     38    9.8     7.5
     39    9.0     7.5
     40    8.2     7.5
     41    7.5     5.0
     42    6.8     5.0
     43    6.0     5.0
     44    5.3     5.0
     45    4.5     2.5
     46    3.7     2.5
     47    3.0     2.5
     48    2.3     0.0
     49    1.5     0.0
     50    0.8     0.0
Note that the rounded figures are all rounded down, and only add up to a total of 897.5 mg.; leaving you with 102.5 mg. to distribute around as you think fit (but the longer you leave it, the longer it'll last).
No, I didn't type all that, I wrote a program to generate the table for me.
 
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On the other hand, you might just get away with it... i personally never rated etiz, i would need a strip of the blistered tablets (10 tabs each? Tried both 'major brands' and custom pellets with same 'research results' each time) to get me to feel anything and they would wear off in less than 2 hours. 40mg of my prescribed generic diazepam however has always been a decent dose, i can get fairly melted from this amount even when i have some tolerance...

Conclusions? Perhaps some people dont need as much diazepam as its supposed etizolam equivalent - ive always found diazepam 100% superior to etizolam (and every other RC thieno/benzo - flubros the only one i bother now) in efficacy, duration and dose response - if you start Julies plan NOW B_H you may very well have just enough... 15mg with 20days to go will give you plenty of warning as to whether or not you will make it, even taking into account diazepams latency and that wd symptoms may only manifest themselves a couple of days after the fact.
 
If you haven't already read it, this http://www.benzo.org.uk/manual/ is essential reading.

One gram is unlikely to be enough for a slow taper. Going down linearly from 40 mg., you will get through 1000 mg. in just 50 days (the graph of amount of drug per day against time is a triangle; the area, which represents the total amount of drug taken during the amount of time, is half the base times the height; and you know the area is 1000 mg. and the height is 40 mg./day, so that puts the base at 1000 / (40 * .5) = 1000 / 20 = 50 days.) That is going to be brutal.

On the other hand, if it's all you've got, then you may as well go for it. This is how it works out, starting from 37.5 mg.:
Code:
... DAY    mg.   rounded to nearest 2.5
      1   37.5    37.5
      2   36.8    35.0
      3   36.0    35.0
      4   35.2    35.0
      5   34.5    32.5
      6   33.8    32.5
      7   33.0    32.5
      8   32.2    30.0
      9   31.5    30.0
     10   30.8    30.0
     11   30.0    30.0
     12   29.2    27.5
     13   28.5    27.5
     14   27.8    27.5
     15   27.0    25.0
     16   26.2    25.0
     17   25.5    25.0
     18   24.7    22.5
     19   24.0    22.5
     20   23.2    22.5
     21   22.5    22.5
     22   21.8    20.0
     23   21.0    20.0
     24   20.2    20.0
     25   19.5    17.5
     26   18.8    17.5
     27   18.0    17.5
     28   17.2    15.0
     29   16.5    15.0
     30   15.8    15.0
     31   15.0    15.0
     32   14.2    12.5
     33   13.5    12.5
     34   12.7    12.5
     35   12.0    10.0
     36   11.3    10.0
     37   10.5    10.0
     38    9.8     7.5
     39    9.0     7.5
     40    8.2     7.5
     41    7.5     5.0
     42    6.8     5.0
     43    6.0     5.0
     44    5.3     5.0
     45    4.5     2.5
     46    3.7     2.5
     47    3.0     2.5
     48    2.3     0.0
     49    1.5     0.0
     50    0.8     0.0
Note that the rounded figures are all rounded down, and only add up to a total of 897.5 mg.; leaving you with 102.5 mg. to distribute around as you think fit (but the longer you leave it, the longer it'll last).
No, I didn't type all that, I wrote a program to generate the table for me.

You folk need to look after this - well done Julie - this would be a great taper example for the 'so now all the etiz's have gone what the fuck do i do' megathread thats just bursting to be written for UK based bluelighters.
 
Back to the Etizolam

We all know that research chemicals can be sold as such due to the 'not for human consumption' clause. I dont need to name vendors or brands to press the point that alot of us were at least partly attracted to certain sources of Etizolam as they were selling pharm grade blister strips of 1mg tablets, sourced from Asia where it is available from most pharmacies. However, as its not listed as a medicine in the UK the vendors could of course sell it for research purposes as it has no domestic use in any treatment. Why cant they sell MST's, or Temazepam in the same fashion? They cant because of course they are both controlled drugs, but also because they are listed as prescription only medicines under the 1968 Medicines act - there would be no justification for supplying them for research purposes as they have been well studied and are used widely and safely in general medicine every day.

Make sense so far? Ok so maybe not, but bear with me.

Ive spent alot of time in Crete over the past 20 years and when i started pissing around with benzodiazepines in the late 90's the local pharmacies would sell them OTC no questions. Im sure the situation was the same in alot of european countries. But the millennium came and went, bringing with it standerdised EU regulations and it wont suprise anyone that access to prescription only medicines in all EU countries became as restrictive as they are in the UK and Eire. By 2006 my 'local' chemist in Chania would let me have the odd bottle of Rivotril under the counter but over the last few years access to medicines such as this have been restricted across all EU countries. Put it this way, if a compound is seen as a medicine in Spain then technically its a medicine in all EU countries.

Finally, the droning old cunt gets to his point (you can yawn now).

Turns out that good old Etizolam is listed as a medicine in Italy. While alot of countries have taken individual action and banned Etizolam, it remains legal in the UK. However, most vendors have become wary due to these standardisation issues across the EU, as it may turn out that because Italy considers Etizolam a medicine, we all may have to treat it as such, and if this is the case it could be pulled from the market without even having to classify it as a controlled drug, as the Medicines Act can prevent it from being sold to the general public for research purposes.

As for fans of the other RC benzos and thenios, Deschloroetizolam, Chlorodiazepam, Pyrazolam and Flubromazepam, no need to panic yet as it appears that none of these chemicals have ever been used or listed as medicines in the EU or elsewhere, so their availability should be safe for the time being, taking into account the logic i have tried to describe above.

Still wouldnt stop the government using the MODA to ban them outright though.

Sorry for the long and boring post. Hope it sheds at least some light on the matter.

Stee

Hi, I'm I right in thinking that no official moves have been made regarding this, the etizolam disappearing is a scare rather than a pressing legal concern? Just occurred to me that an enterprising type might be able to profit out of this situation :)

MONSTA!!
 
Hi, I'm I right in thinking that no official moves have been made regarding this, the etizolam disappearing is a scare rather than a pressing legal concern? Just occurred to me that an enterprising type might be able to profit out of this situation :)

MONSTA!!

Yeah that seems to be more or less correct. Etizolam has been mentioned in at least one published ACMD report, but they only mention that it is a drug of abuse and some stuff about forensic standards. I'm pretty sure they haven't made any official recommendations about it yet, though it's only a matter of time and it's not like the government are going to wait around for the ACMD if the media make enough fuss about it first.

Pellets have indeed dried up, but powder (and I think some of the branded pills too) is still fairly readily available, so I kind of wonder whether the lack of pellets is really/completely about discouraging the (ab)use of etizolam. I mean, yeah, people are probably more willing to buy pellets in the first place because they're easier/safer to handle and dose but anyone who's already hooked on etiz, or even just fond enough of it, is just going to order the powder or other benzo pellets like diclazepam or nifoxipam instead. Given that a lot of people are particularly fond of etizolam compared to other benzos I reckon many would go for the powder. I mean, I'm not even dependent but I still ordered etiz powder recently because it's half life and effect profile are just right for dealing with comedowns, bad trips and insomnia. From a HR perspective that's pretty stupid as we'll probably end up with more black outs and dependencies due to the risks of improper dosing with pure powder and the fact that it's much cheaper than pellets may well cause people to use it less sparingly.

Surely, all the generic etizolam pellets that were available until recently must have been competing with the branded products and were probably cutting into their profits. Could the brand name manufacturers (or anyone else for that matter) have some how pressured vendors to stop stocking pellets? It just seems strange that vendors would drop pellets from their stock but not powder when there's probably a lot less profit in it for them...
 
Here's an exponential taper plan -- i.e., multiplying the amount by the same fraction each day; as opposed to a liner taper where you subtract the same amount each day -- from 37.5 to nil, using 997.5 mg. of diazepam over 85 days: (Realistically, you might as well take that last 2.5 mg. on day 85.) The reduction factor of 0.968 was determined by iteration to be the optimum; neither running out of drugs before falling below the minimum dose, nor reducing to nil too soon and with an excessive amount of the original stash remaining.
Code:
... DAY    mg.   rounded to 2.5
      1   37.5    37.5
      2   36.3    35.0
      3   35.1    35.0
      4   34.0    32.5
      5   32.9    32.5
      6   31.9    30.0
      7   30.9    30.0
      8   29.9    27.5
      9   28.9    27.5
     10   28.0    27.5
     11   27.1    25.0
     12   26.2    25.0
     13   25.4    25.0
     14   24.6    22.5
     15   23.8    22.5
     16   23.0    22.5
     17   22.3    20.0
     18   21.6    20.0
     19   20.9    20.0
     20   20.2    20.0
     21   19.6    17.5
     22   18.9    17.5
     23   18.3    17.5
     24   17.7    17.5
     25   17.2    15.0
     26   16.6    15.0
     27   16.1    15.0
     28   15.6    15.0
     29   15.1    15.0
     30   14.6    12.5
     31   14.1    12.5
     32   13.7    12.5
     33   13.2    12.5
     34   12.8    12.5
     35   12.4    10.0
     36   12.0    10.0
     37   11.6    10.0
     38   11.3    10.0
     39   10.9    10.0
     40   10.5    10.0
     41   10.2    10.0
     42    9.9     7.5
     43    9.6     7.5
     44    9.3     7.5
     45    9.0     7.5
     46    8.7     7.5
     47    8.4     7.5
     48    8.1     7.5
     49    7.9     7.5
     50    7.6     7.5
     51    7.4     5.0
     52    7.1     5.0
     53    6.9     5.0
     54    6.7     5.0
     55    6.5     5.0
     56    6.3     5.0
     57    6.1     5.0
     58    5.9     5.0
     59    5.7     5.0
     60    5.5     5.0
     61    5.3     5.0
     62    5.2     5.0
     63    5.0     2.5
     64    4.8     2.5
     65    4.7     2.5
     66    4.5     2.5
     67    4.4     2.5
     68    4.2     2.5
     69    4.1     2.5
     70    4.0     2.5
     71    3.8     2.5
     72    3.7     2.5
     73    3.6     2.5
     74    3.5     2.5
     75    3.4     2.5
     76    3.3     2.5
     77    3.2     2.5
     78    3.1     2.5
     79    3.0     2.5
     80    2.9     2.5
     81    2.8     2.5
     82    2.7     2.5
     83    2.6     2.5
     84    2.5     2.5
     85    2.4     0.0
** TAPERED TO NOTHING ON DAY 85 **
 997.5     2.5  0.968000
 
..... And the code used to do it. It's written in Perl (path on 1st line is correct for most Linux distributions); if programming languages were cars, Perl would be a grubby white Ford Transit van. Not trendy, not fast, but you can rely on it to get the job done.

Linear taper:
Code:
#!/usr/bin/perl
use strict;

my ($day, $mg, $mg1, $total);
my $DAYS = 50;
my $START_mg = 37.5;
my $TOTAL_mg = 1000;

print "... DAY    mg.\n";
for ($day = 0; $day < $DAYS; ++$day) {
    $mg = $START_mg * ( 1 - $day / $DAYS);
    $mg1 = 2.5 * int($mg / 2.5);
    printf "%7d %6.1f  %6.1f\n", $day + 1, $mg, $mg1;
    $total += $mg1;
};

printf "%6.1f  %6.1f\n", $total, $TOTAL_mg - $total;

exit;
Exponential taper:
Code:
#!/usr/bin/perl
use strict;

my ($day, $mg, $mg1, $total);
my $DAYS = 50;
my $START_mg = 37.5;
my $TOTAL_mg = 1000;

$_ = "";
while (!$_) {
    print "Daily reduction factor (0 - 1) : ";
    $_ = <>;
    tr/\r\n//d;
    s/[^0-9.]//g;
};
my $reduction = $_;

print "... DAY    mg.   rounded to 2.5\n";

$day = 0;
$mg1 = $mg = $START_mg;
while ($mg1 > 0 && $total < $TOTAL_mg) {
    $mg1 = 2.5 * int($mg / 2.5);
    printf "%7d %6.1f  %6.1f\n", $day + 1, $mg, $mg1;
    $total += $mg1;
    $mg *= $reduction;
    ++$day;
    
    if ($mg1 <= 0) {
        print "** TAPERED TO NOTHING ON DAY $day **\n";
    };
    if ($total >= $TOTAL_mg) {
        print "** RAN OUT OF DRUGS ON DAY $day **\n";
    };
};

printf "%6.1f  %6.1f  %f\n", $total, $TOTAL_mg - $total, $reduction;

exit;
This is released into the public domain, 2015 by Julie Montoya.
 
On a lighter note (I really feel for those badly affected by this), there is some grade A schilling going on in the new benzo threads because of this....
 
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