It is precisely because naturally occurring hypnotics appear to have similar GABA receptor binding properties compared to pharmaceutical hypnotics that substitution of one for the other is just plain silly. The dose required would have to be massive because of the extremely low effect profile of valerian and the associated liver toxicity would render it useless. The first benzodiazepine, chlordiazepoxide, was discovered at Hoffman-La Roche when scientists, in an attempt to create a new form of dye, stumbled upon the sedative properties of the chemical under analysis and passed it on to the pharmaceutical group who were investigating the creation of new tranquilisers. Diazepam was the result of the same scientist in the pharmaceutical group attempting to simplify the synthesis of chlordiazepoxide. The only link between the brand name for diazepam and valerian is the first three letters in their names.
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Etizolam ran out fuck guys :(
- Thread starter Bare_head
- Start date
It is precisely because naturally occurring hypnotics appear to have similar GABA receptor binding properties compared to pharmaceutical hypnotics that substitution of one for the other is just plain silly. The dose required would have to be massive because of the extremely low effect profile of valerian and the associated liver toxicity would render it useless. The first benzodiazepine, chlordiazepoxide, was discovered at Hoffman-La Roche when scientists, in an attempt to create a new form of dye, stumbled upon the sedative properties of the chemical under analysis and passed it on to the pharmaceutical group who were investigating the creation of new tranquilisers. Diazepam was the result of the same scientist in the pharmaceutical group attempting to simplify the synthesis of chlordiazepoxide. The only link between the brand name for diazepam and valerian is the first three letters in their names.
Your theory is useless without actual experience to back it up. I don't care what you think or what you think you have learned. Doctors aren't even aware it can be used for benzo withdrawals and it's not really common knowledge.
Come back to us when you've been in that desperate situation and tried it out for yourself and I expect you will have changed your tune.
I only wanted to offer some advice to those who desperately need it, not getting into a hypo-thetical argument just for the sake of it, or because someone has to be right. You might not be open to the relief you can receive from it but others might be.
Come back to us when you've been in that desperate situation and tried it out for yourself and I expect you will have changed your tune.
I only wanted to offer some advice to those who desperately need it, not getting into a hypo-thetical argument just for the sake of it, or because someone has to be right. You might not be open to the relief you can receive from it but others might be.
As a GP I have witnessed countless times the terrifying problems associated with addiction to benzodiazepines and written more prescriptions than I care to count because to do otherwise would endanger the life of a patient who has stumbled into a high tolerance addiction to a drug group which is second only to barbiturates in deadly outcome on abrupt withdrawal. I am not promoting a theory. If people want to augment treatment for any condition with a natural remedy at non-toxic doses where there is no contra-indication to prescribed medication they should do it if it makes them feel better. However, people die when unqualified snake oil salesmen convince gullible people with treatable conditions that xyz is an effective alternative to medical treatment.
im really skeptical but i actually believe what he says holds some truth, not saying it will work for everyone but for him it does ok pjd555, what i hate about gp's in general is you know all this and that yet your so reluctant to give out the tapering plans or even help out people with anxiety, u offer ssri's all the time to people who are 18 and sufferring some anxiety, not saying you do personally, but i find the nhs just throws prozac or whatever at the patient without actually giving them a full diagnosis! i hate gp's . most anyways , sorry 
headfuck123
Bluelighter
I don't think its wise to recommend valerian as a solution to completely stopping benzos cold turkey but it does help quite a bit near the end of a taper or to aid the transition from taper to benzo free. It really helped me recently starting a new job, I had rebound anxiety along with the general anxiety of a new job and had all sorts of horrible symptoms. 1 teaspoon of valerian root in boiling water before work calmed me down and took away the heart palpitations. Although I've heard it doesn't work for everyone, its extremely subtle and like benzos can have paradoxical effects making you more alert rather than sedated.
oh for sure not, hes simply stating his own personal experience, i do not condone using that to come off a benzo habit (a big one like mine anyways) but at the tail end maybe, im coming to an end to my gram already, i fucked up with dosing but down to like 30mg, feels like its gonna kill me but only thing keepin me goin is this 30mg ( n only for 10 hours or so) then its the shivers aches :-(
im really skeptical but i actually believe what he says holds some truth, not saying it will work for everyone but for him it does ok pjd555, what i hate about gp's in general is you know all this and that yet your so reluctant to give out the tapering plans or even help out people with anxiety, u offer ssri's all the time to people who are 18 and sufferring some anxiety, not saying you do personally, but i find the nhs just throws prozac or whatever at the patient without actually giving them a full diagnosis! i hate gp's . most anyways , sorry
When confronted with a high tolerance benzo addict on the verge of going cold turkey because his illicit supply has run out the only response available in the immediate term is to stabilise the situation by prescribing a long-lasting replacement benzodiazepine because it is a medical emergency. After that a tapering plan can be worked out. The reason for the reluctance to prescribe benzodiazepine drugs for anything but short term use for anxiety disorders is that most doctors have had patients who were put on such drugs in their teens and 20 or 30 years later are stuck with drug addiction, a terror of considering a withdrawal plan, cognitive issues and memory problems which combined have ruined their lives. Benzodiazepines were the 'miracle' and 'safe' alternative to the overdose horrors of barbiturates until the true nature of the withdrawal syndrome became apparent. Next came the 'safe' and 'non-addictive' Z drugs for sleep disorders and what happened? Zopiclone tolerance turned out to have a more rapid onset than some benzodiazepines in some patients and before you know it patients have been admitted to A&E after suffering multiple seizures because they hand ramped up their dose and run out of tablets. Zolpidem turned out to be a drug with multiple abuse pathways with one being simply thinking against its action. Later we learnt that contrary to what we were originally told women and men processed it in different ways and we had a whole new problem. A cautious approach is taken when considering prescribing hypnotic and anxiolytic drugs to patients because time and time again every drug in those classes over more than 60 years has turned out to be of a kind which can have devastating consequences for patients. Nearly all of these drugs have a role to play but the history of these drugs forces a more cautious approach than decades passed.
warriorOnTheEdge
Bluelighter
Very informative post, tis appreciated.
Good. Then you're just like all the GPs I've seen, who know fuck all about alternative means of relief and also won't prescribe you an emercency prescription, because they always put their carreer first and would rather risk you dying of an acute epileptic seizure and go into psychosis so you're a danger to yourself and other people.
Even if they wanted to help they have no way because they haven't been given the knowledge and even if they had they're not allowed to recommend non-allopathic alternatives.
curious_24
Bluelighter
Maybe read what the man wrote, instead of jumping to wild (and incorrect) conclusions.
Imagine a 24 year old male patient turns up at surgery looking distressed and demands to see a doctor but there is no appointment available that day. When told this he becomes more distressed. One of the doctors or nurses will, when they have dealt with whatever they are doing check to see what is going on. Let's say it is the practise nurse and she talks to the man and he, who has hardly anything on his medical record since a minor knee injury at age 13, recounts to the nurse that he has been abusing illicit benzodiazepines on a daily basis for the last 5 years and up until 6PM the previous day was consuming the equivalent of a 100mg of diazepam a day. His dealer has disappeared and he is in a panic. The nurse then comes to me between appointments and tells me this and communicates her concern. I have a number of options and after I have explained them I want you to tell me which are likely to have an adverse effect on my career bearing in mind I have at most 10 minutes to spare.
1. I tell him he can't simply turn up demanding he be given a schedule IV drug and tell him to go away.
2. I talk to the distressed man and without having any evidence I dismiss him as an intermittent binge user and tell him to leave.
3. I look at the evidence before me which amounts to a distressed person declaring an addiction, apparently showing symptoms which could be attributed to withdrawal syndrome for something. He might be a good actor and a binge user or he might not. One thing is certain and that is he is declaring a need for a drug and if what he is saying is true 30mg of diazepam per day will stop him from suffering any life-threatening side effects of abrupt withdrawal. I don't want to give a binge user ammunition for a binge so I write an FP10 MDA-S prescription for the 30mg diazepam per day for 5 days which will be dispensed in daily instalments and arrange to have a consultation with him in 4 days time when I can speak to him at length, run tests and discuss options.
I'll give you a clue. Option 3 certainly won't have an adverse effect on my career.
5StarSquatHotel
Bluelighter
Wish all doctors were as switched on as you when it comes to benzo's. They scripted me Diazepam 40mg a day for years then switched it to 100mg of tamzepam a month then wondered why I had to use street tabs on top, they did switch it up to 100mg tamzepam a week after a while but this was still no where near enough and is stupidly short acting (I know its a hypnotic). It was all this that led to my current condition F.U.B.A.R syndrome...
During the 1990s with the co-operation of a local pharmacist some patients would be tapered with temazepam oral solution but that was still the learning phase of how to diminish the problem of 1.2 million people dependent on a medication group prescribed by doctors. Even today I'd say about a half of patients won't even discuss managed withdrawal and there are certainly quite a few doctors who don't treat the issue as seriously as they should.
This guy seems to be talking a lot of sense. Good to have another medical professional on here. Hopefully he/she will read round the site and learn some useful stuff about what people are taking these days. Also sounds like he has some good advice to dispense so let's be nice eh?
On the original topic, there do seem to be etizolam available online still.
On the original topic, there do seem to be etizolam available online still.
5StarSquatHotel
Bluelighter
I know people who have been left on 100ml methadone AND either diazepam or tamzepam for over a decade (myself included) They wont even let you taper from Tamzepam unless under constant medical supervision. I don't blame the doctors that started me on benzos as it was my choice at the end of the day, I didn't even know what they were at the time as 18 and on 100mls methadone...
again this shows how little we have come towards helping patients with anxiety, these new drugs mainly ssri's (newer types) effect everyone differently, they say these drugs are much safer , u know in another 20 years you still wont have the right way to address each individual differently, u ur self has shown some good talk and knowledge on here, be my gp by all means, but most that dnt even research places like these know little to fuck all about each individuals problems and most are jus another number in the recovery checklist, when in reality most of the nhs cure no real addictions just aid some people and most drug users are frowned upon, cud argue for hours about how gps are fucking shite ( the majority) sigh down to 25mg tonight fuck my life (and the nhs)
Tranced
Bluelight Crew
Erm, without getting into sources... is it just me or is etizolam still widely available in the UK?
I just had a quick check and found loads of websites.
I just had a quick check and found loads of websites.
F.U.B.A.R.
Bluelight Crew
Dunno, but I reckon nifoxipam is a better alternative.
BecomingJulie
Bluelight Crew
I suspect there may have been a scare that if it was registered as a medicine in Italy, meaning someone had a reason to make it, it might be the subject of a patent enforcible in the UK.