EADD Theology Megathread - Book II - Exodus

[Raasyvibe]

watching this



It's 20 minutes long, but only the first 12 are worth your time. Really fascinating video, giving insight of afterlife and spiritual forces active on this world.

 

[StoneHappyMonday]

There are good and evil forces acting on our world. Sure, bury your head in the sand while all the shit goes
on around you... you're aligning yourself to be one of the greatest fools of all people in the next world.

The Gin said so right? Right?


Oh my my, you're serious.

 

[Raasyvibe]

^
Bit of both. *edit* Actually no... far more the Gin saying so.

uuurrrrghhh... no more apple and mango juice, man....

Cool video though, no?

 

[BecomingJulie]

It's still way more plausible that the "testimony" is just one big act.

 

[Vurtual]

Don't forget there were hundreds of gospels knocking around, many of which haven't survived, so it's difficult to ascribe a strategy to the four that ended up making the roman cut for whatever reason. Similarly, i'd agree that the gospels as written in the first and second centuries weren't part of some plan for control (way too confusing and contradictory for that) - but the selection, editing and general mainstreaming of christian ideas that happened under constantine i think could be considered that way (a system of control) as that's how the roman church looks like even today (and it's descendants to a degree).

Considering this, i'd tend to assume that the christianity before that, at least in part (because there were many parts), was not this way - there's plenty of hints that it was anti-establishment in plenty of the sects (particularly gnostics), hence why the romans were killing them at first; and why they felt the need to subsume it later.

There was a bit of a fashion for cults/secret societies at the time (e.g. the mithras cult), and the gnostic christians (and others) were arguably of that general type (i.e. mystical secret orders with secret rituals which non-members often thought were dodgy in some way (maybe correctly) - and it was that type of thing that the authorities didn't like (like they also didn't like mithras cults at different stages) - probably because they didn't like secrecy outside of the state control, especially when it included influential people in rome (as was the case in mithras cults) . (btw, i think the links between mithras and jesus are overstated (as is a lot of the detail in that zeitgeist religion bit)). There were also more 'straight' (boring) christian sects around at the same time, so unsurprising that the authorities picked more from them when creating their state religion (though they still had to keep john in to keep the weirdos happy).

btw - it's christmas today raas (by the more correct dating of the orthodox church (i.e. when not moved to the solstice to keep the pagans on board).

 

[rickolasnice]

Read your post again raas, while sober.

I admit that my speculative ideas that Jesus was to "serve the government" (Not quite what i said or meant) wasn't based on any concrete evidence.. hence the words speculation. But from studying the bible (especially the writings of Paul) it seems plausible that this was the case. Remember the bit about Titus, what he did at the burning of the temple, and the part about him being around for the collection plate? Hmm..

You just admitted that all 4 gospels were written by people with different agenda's.. Are you denying that Mark was the first written? That the word for word copying from Mark means that.. they are just that.. copies with added bit to suit their agenda? Are you denying that Mark used ancient Jewish scripture to write the life of Jesus? That the virgin birth myth came from a mistranslation of ancient Jewish scripture by Matthew which was then copied by Luke? Are you denying Luke uses parts of Josephus' writings to fill in his version of events, dating the writing of his gospels after 70AD?

You say Mark's gospel was always intended to be seen as historical but I see no evidence of this within his gospel. This was a belief put out by one of the earliest Christian churches. Did you consider the way it is written compared to other historical writing's from the same time period?

Just which part are you refuting?

Are you you refuting that Paul's writings seem to indicate he didn't consider Jesus to have been a human man that walked the earth less than two decades earlier? Or that his writings have a seemingly pro - Roman undertone?

Btw.. no need to quote my post if you aren't going to respond to it.. rather than the tiny bit you can.

You're response disappoints.

 

[rickolasnice]

It's 20 minutes long, but only the first 12 are worth your time. Really fascinating video, giving insight of afterlife and spiritual forces active on this world.

Omfg raas.

Btw this man is actually being used as a vessel for the message of an alien leader.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpUtUQ5YC-Q

 

[Raasyvibe]

Read your post again raas, while sober.

I admit that my speculative ideas that Jesus was to "serve the government" (Not quite what i said or meant) wasn't based on any concrete evidence.. hence the words speculation. But from studying the bible (especially the writings of Paul) it seems plausible that this was the case. Remember the bit about Titus, what he did at the burning of the temple, and the part about him being around for the collection plate? Hmm..

You just admitted that all 4 gospels were written by people with different agenda's.. Are you denying that Mark was the first written? That the word for word copying from Mark means that.. they are just that.. copies with added bit to suit their agenda? Are you denying that Mark used ancient Jewish scripture to write the life of Jesus? That the virgin birth myth came from a mistranslation of ancient Jewish scripture by Matthew which was then copied by Luke? Are you denying Luke uses parts of Josephus' writings to fill in his version of events, dating the writing of his gospels after 70AD?

You say Mark's gospel was always intended to be seen as historical but I see no evidence of this within his gospel. This was a belief put out by one of the earliest Christian churches. Did you consider the way it is written compared to other historical writing's from the same time period?

Just which part are you refuting?

Are you you refuting that Paul's writings seem to indicate he didn't consider Jesus to have been a human man that walked the earth less than two decades earlier? Or that his writings have a seemingly pro - Roman undertone?

Btw.. no need to quote my post if you aren't going to respond to it.. rather than the tiny bit you can.

You're response disappoints.

I actually quoted your post to show off it's size, was a sorta commendation I'll get back to points above later

nice post also Vurtual, I'll respond in more detail later

 

[rickolasnice]

Great-grandson of L. Ron Hubbard performs a poem about the man himself, the origins of church, his grandfather and just how sick and twisted Mr Hubbard was..

[video]http://www.upworthy.com/l-ron-hubbards-great-grandson-spills-the-family-secrets-on-how-scientology-started-eek?c=ufb1[/video]

 

[pinkpapaver]

It's unlikely people will believe my book, so what I'll do is write 4 books then use the other 3 to prove whichever one is being questioned...

Brilliant.


Just as a total aside, how do you feel about the fact the stuff you quote from the bible obviously isn't actually what was originally written? What are your thoughts on King James? Do you accept that the bible has been modified numerous times to better fit different agendas? Which is the true bible in your opinion?

and here is the proof that the quran is the word of god! It is the same as it was when it was written! that's nuts that people think that the fact it hasn't been changed is prrof that it is the word of god. and there are no contradictions in the quran and the sunnah. If you find any it is because you have wicked intentions!

anyways raaas have you read this http://www.theshackbook.com/

I enjoyed this book.

I must watch that elronhubbard thing.

I think it's the holy spirit does the lot, that's nature I suppose.

 

[rickolasnice]

^ Don't suppose you wanna lend me that book?

 

[Raasyvibe]

^^^ The book is about God... hand it to me, PP. Did you also see the above video? It mentions tarot cards being evil and satanic, whereas you claimed they were good. What are you thoughts?

Omfg raas.

Btw this man is actually being used as a vessel for the message of an alien leader.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpUtUQ5YC-Q

Ricko, one person claims they can channel an alien leader called Korton. Credible? Not really...

Millions claim spiritual experiences involving Jesus or the Devil. There's only so many testimonies you can here before you have to accept, together they form some great credibility.

 

[rickolasnice]

Yeah.. but these religious experiences are normally nothing more than a sudden wave of positivity while thinking about God / Jesus..

Becoming part of a church, meeting friendly new people and feeling like they have found meaning in their life is enough to cause this sudden wave of positivity while singing a hypnotic hymn and knowing that nobody there is judging your singing skills.

I'm pretty sure I could cause someone to feel the "power of god" if they were already a believer (or swaying towards it) and suggestable.

OK What about the hundreds (if not thousands) of claims that people have been abducted by aliens?

And millions of people claim spiritual experiences involving Jesus or the Devil, but millions of others claim spiritual experiences of Allah and Mohammed, or from their own form of personal God or beliefs.. Thousands claim that no plane hit the world trade centres, they were there and they heard bombs go off but there were no planes.

Christianity is not the only religion, and spiritual experiences of others contradicts your God being God.

No. They form no credibility to the Christian faith or those that follow it.

Still not got a rebuttal to my Jesus Fesus?

 

[BecomingJulie]

You could fabricate a religious movement from whole cloth, introduce it to people and they would believe it. People have a tendency to prefer bad explanations to no explanation, and religion exploits this facet of human nature mercilessly.

L. Ron Hubbard did it. So did Joseph Smith. (If he wasn't making it up as he went along, why such a fuss over a few missing pages?)

By the way, if anyone's interested, I've always wanted to start a church with a pre-pay confessional system. You tell the priest how many Hail Marys and Our Fathers you have said and how many old ladies you have helped across the street, and the priest tells you what sins you can commit. Or you can save up the grace you've already earned, and put it towards a bigger sin in future. I'm sure there is enough "evidence" out there that could be interpreted to say Jesus was transsexual, born with a girl's body parts .....

 

[ScotchMist]

You could fabricate a religious movement from whole cloth, introduce it to people and they would believe it. People have a tendency to prefer bad explanations to no explanation, and religion exploits this facet of human nature mercilessly.

L. Ron Hubbard did it. So did Joseph Smith. (If he wasn't making it up as he went along, why such a fuss over a few missing pages?)

By the way, if anyone's interested, I've always wanted to start a church with a pre-pay confessional system. You tell the priest how many Hail Marys and Our Fathers you have said and how many old ladies you have helped across the street, and the priest tells you what sins you can commit. Or you can save up the grace you've already earned, and put it towards a bigger sin in future. I'm sure there is enough "evidence" out there that could be interpreted to say Jesus was transsexual, born with a girl's body parts .....

I'll join your flock... I reckon I may be in negative equity with the sins though, I'll get myself off to a busy road near some shops to bump up my legitimate sin points..

 

[pinkpapaver]

rick, I've already lent it out for it never to return. read it 5 years ago. it is good though. well, I thought so at the time and at the time I was into Catholicism. Raas, which vid? I'm afraid I'm not going to just take a fella on you tube's word for it on anything really.

back to islam. muslims love giving out Qurans . they don't seem so free with the sunnah and hadiths though? that'll be where things cease being the word of god and become a blokes interpretation of the word of god by which oter muslims choose to lead their lives. so there we go. how do they know that they're on the right path? I must pose this question to one of my dealer friends.

 

[rickolasnice]

My hypothesis has nothing to do with "Caesars Messiah" or whatever that piece of crap documentary was called (although my final speculation does resemble that of the overall hypothesis of the video)..

But of course, I don't want you to take my word for it, use the links provided and even the bible itself to test if what I say is true.. I strongly discourage people judging on "blind faith"..

EDIT; Completely misinterpreted your post there pink.. ignore me

Would you consider yourself to be a follower of Christ? Sorry I know you've told me before but i have bad memory and can't be arsed to look through the old thread looking for the answer.

And ah fair enough Sounds like a good book though; might actually buy myself a copy)

how do they know that they're on the right path? I must pose this question to one of my dealer friends.

Faith?

As with the abrahamic religions; the scripture is so ambiguous and contradictory of itself that people kinda HAVE to cherry pick the bits they like.. or at least be told what bits to follow by someone who did his own cherry pickin..

 

[rickolasnice]

You could fabricate a religious movement from whole cloth, introduce it to people and they would believe it. People have a tendency to prefer bad explanations to no explanation, and religion exploits this facet of human nature mercilessly.

L. Ron Hubbard did it. So did Joseph Smith. (If he wasn't making it up as he went along, why such a fuss over a few missing pages?)

By the way, if anyone's interested, I've always wanted to start a church with a pre-pay confessional system. You tell the priest how many Hail Marys and Our Fathers you have said and how many old ladies you have helped across the street, and the priest tells you what sins you can commit. Or you can save up the grace you've already earned, and put it towards a bigger sin in future. I'm sure there is enough "evidence" out there that could be interpreted to say Jesus was transsexual, born with a girl's body parts .....

I'd love to start a church - but within it discuss philosophical concepts, current world affairs (I'd definitely have a moan about this "democratic" state we live in and where it is heading, their agendas and how they implement them, or whatever the hell everyone wanted to talk about and read small passages from a book I would write (Fictional stories that teach morality, right from wrong, etc)

I'd also invite anyone who wanted advice or support on something (death of loved one, how to communicate with disobedient child, etc) to join me after service for a one on one with myself or someone who i'd deem morally qualified to do it.. The thing with my church as well is that it will have people who believe in all sorts of different things; like a personal heaven, an eternal consciousness, etc etc .. so it will allow people looking for "answers" to hear an array of possibilities (well, other peoples beliefs on the subject) without the brain washing, guilt tripping techniques of the Christian church.

Of course to be a church we would have to worship some kind of deity.. So i'll also write up an allegorical story personifying "Science and Humanity"..

Hmmm..

Might start writing these soon.

There would be a collection plate but the money would go on donations to sciences that help humanity, running of church (bills), leaflets (to raise awareness of church), or to raise money for a member of the "church" (if i deemed their cause worthy).

I honestly think it could become a popular, social club with no entry fee where people could come and make friends, meet like minded people for companionship, confirmation of beliefs and, obviously, a good ol debate, educational facility that would not only become the good parts of a regular christian church (a place to meet like-minded friendly people and to hear what they want to hear, charity fundraising and just as "something to do and look forward to") but that of internet forums and the local pub (different people with different views, a place to meet like-minded friendly people (although there will no doubt be some dicks, like me ), somewhere to learn about others beliefs and think about how that relates to you, etc etc.. Could even get an alcohol license for the over 18 only night or even have a youth room where they can just chill, play some games, read some books or kick a ball around.. get em off the streets getting into mischief

And all tax free! ..!.. you powers that be..

 

[maxalfie]

Time for lust, time for lie
time to kiss your life goodbye
Send me money, send me green
Heaven you will meet
Make a contribution
and you'll get a better seat

 

[Marmalade]

can't stop reading philosophy stuffs atm


Quote from the very end section on Idealism, from wiki

Sir James Jeans wrote; "The stream of knowledge is heading towards a non-mechanical reality; the Universe begins to look more like a great thought than like a great machine. Mind no longer appears to be an accidental intruder into the realm of matter... we ought rather hail it as the creator and governor of the realm of matter."[58]

Jeans, in an interview published in The Observer (London), when asked the question:

Do you believe that life on this planet is the result of some sort of accident, or do you believe that it is a part of some great scheme?

replied:

I incline to the idealistic theory that consciousness is fundamental, and that the material universe is derivative from consciousness, not consciousness from the material universe... In general the universe seems to me to be nearer to a great thought than to a great machine. It may well be, it seems to me, that each individual consciousness ought to be compared to a brain-cell in a universal mind.

What remains is in any case very different from the full-blooded matter and the forbidding materialism of the Victorian scientist. His objective and material universe is proved to consist of little more than constructs of our own minds. To this extent, then, modern physics has moved in the direction of philosophic idealism. Mind and matter, if not proved to be of similar nature, are at least found to be ingredients of one single system. There is no longer room for the kind of dualism which has haunted philosophy since the days of Descartes. Sir James Jeans addressing the British Association in 1934.

Finite picture whose dimensions are a certain amount of space and a certain amount of time; the protons and electrons are the streaks of paint which define the picture against its space-time background. Traveling as far back in time as we can, brings us not to the creation of the picture, but to its edge; the creation of the picture lies as much outside the picture as the artist is outside his canvas. On this view, discussing the creation of the universe in terms of time and space is like trying to discover the artist and the action of painting, by going to the edge of the canvas. This brings us very near to those philosophical systems which regard the universe as a thought in the mind of its Creator, thereby reducing all discussion of material creation to futility.