Does anyone have questions on bodybuilding supplements?

^yes, probably....

We KNOW that tribulus is natural. The problem is that it only raises test levels 5-20%. Actually injecting testosterone boosts them more like 500% (i forget actual figures... I might be way off...)

The boost is just not enough to justify buying the supplement in this case.
 
Slay said:
yes i have a question:) i'm not a bodybuilder but i'm curious why people use nalbuphine for bodybuilding? how can an opioid has anything to do with bodybuilding? pls enlighten meee:)<3
plur<3<3
(oh man this is the first time i post this forum i guess:))

edit: i also wonder are there other agonist/antagonist opioids (or any other opioid) can be used as a bodybuilding suplement?
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Never heard of it, sorry :\
(opiods in general, as far as "I've heard", can actually lower test if used in a heavy recreational manner, but I haven't verified that)

PARooolller said:
hmmm..The product claims to be a non-prohormone...its all natural....research it...i'd post the contents is i didnt have to go to bed.
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It's not a prohormone, it's an 'herbal test booster' that, iirc, is tribulus (no science whatsoever to help it) based.

pmo, are you positive on that tribulus/test statement? I've never even seen that level of proof for it, is it one of the two positive romanian studies on trib?
 
Are there any harmful side effects of tribulus? when i ordered my protein online i got 60 tablets for free (probably says it all right there), it says to take 1 - 2 a day with food..

would it do anything at all? or is it absolutely useless?

i feel a bit wasteful chucking them out :/... maybe i'll sell em at the gym to someone lol, easy cash.
 
I'd sell them if possible, but otherwise I believe they *may* help you with erections and whatnot.
 
anecdote
Took 2 of the capsules yesterday, had a boner for about an hour this morning...

as someone who rarely gets morning wood, this was a bit surprising.

even after the erection had subsided, it still felt like there was blood pulsing through it... weird.
 
Well im sure some of you seen the following article about tribulus:

Tribulus terrestris is an herbal nutritional supplement that is promoted to produce large gains in strength and lean muscle mass in 5-28 days (15, 18). Although some manufacturers claim T. terrestris will not lead to a positive drug test, others have suggested that T. terrestris may increase the urinary testosterone/epitestosterone (T/E) ratio, which may place athletes at risk of a positive drug test. The purpose of the study was to determine the effect of T. terrestris on strength, fat free mass, and the urinary T/E ratio during 5 weeks of preseason training in elite rugby league players. Twenty-two Australian elite male rugby league players (mean +/- SD; age = 19.8 +/- 2.9 years; weight = 88.0 +/- 9.5 kg) were match-paired and randomly assigned in a double-blind manner to either a T. terrestris (n = 11) or placebo (n = 11) group. All subjects performed structured heavy resistance training as part of the club's preseason preparations. A T. terrestris extract (450 mg.d(-1)) or placebo capsules were consumed once daily for 5 weeks. Muscular strength, body composition, and the urinary T/E ratio were monitored prior to and after supplementation. After 5 weeks of training, strength and fat free mass increased significantly without any between-group differences. No between-group differences were noted in the urinary T/E ratio. It was concluded that T. terrestris did not produce the large gains in strength or lean muscle mass that many manufacturers claim can be experienced within 5-28 days. Furthermore, T. terrestris did not alter the urinary T/E ratio and would not place an athlete at risk of testing positive based on the World Anti-Doping Agency's urinary T/E ratio limit of 4:1.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17530942?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_Discovery_RA&linkpos=5&log$=relatedarticles&dbfrom=pubmed
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I think taking DHEA would be better than tribulus, but im pretty sure the conversion rate of DHEA to testosterone (yes it is a prohormone, but it is the only one still legal everywhere, or at least in the US) is something like ~5 to 8% (DHEA-->androstenedione-->testosterone), so you would probably need over a gram a day to get truly significant results.

Also, I am not sure what the conversion rate is to estrogen, and I am not sure what the toxicity issues are with taking such large amounts (though i dont think it is particularly toxic). Still, i would imagine a moderate dose of DHEA (maybe 150-250mg day) could be alot more productive than tribulus. Of course it is still a possibility that one could get gyno and hair-loss from larger amount of DHEA, so I suppose one should approach it like any other steroid...
 
agree fully on tribulus, but about dhea, damn I wish I could remember specificaly why, but bottom line is it's pointless (since I don't have solid reasons, I'll just use the basics - if it actually did boost test, the stuff's like $5/bottle and available everywhere, and would've been used for such things, and subsequently banned.)
 
Whatever....I'm going to proceed to finish this product and keep gaining and improving....even if it is placebo.
 
Well, it is a pro-hormone, and it certainly does increase testosterone, but again, its potency is low. But, say you take 500mg's of DHEA, it should definately yeild at least 25mg testosterone. I believe highest strength capsules one can buy is 200mg (though 50mg is probably the highest you'll find a vitamin shop), quite cheaply. If gaspari and other companies keep on putting it in their products, it could be banned, and already is in Canada. I have no clue how much DHEA halodrols have in them...

Take a few hundred milligrams, and it is very reminiscent of the androstenedione that one used to be able to buy at Rite-Aid. It kicks in quite fast. Keep in mind that it could cause gyno just like androstenedione, i remember when i started to get tenderness from taking androstenedione, so obviously, this is a pretty shitty choice if you have access to other things....
 
negrogesic said:
Well, it is a pro-hormone, and it certainly does increase testosterone, but again, its potency is low. But, say you take 500mg's of DHEA, it should definately yeild at least 25mg testosterone. I believe highest strength capsules one can buy is 200mg (though 50mg is probably the highest you'll find a vitamin shop), quite cheaply. If gaspari and other companies keep on putting it in their products, it could be banned, and already is in Canada. I have no clue how much DHEA halodrols have in them...

Take a few hundred milligrams, and it is very reminiscent of the androstenedione that one used to be able to buy at Rite-Aid. It kicks in quite fast. Keep in mind that it could cause gyno just like androstenedione, i remember when i started to get tenderness from taking androstenedione, so obviously, this is a pretty shitty choice if you have access to other things....
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Like I stated...If I experience ANY negative side effects, I will be quick to stop taking the supplement....As for now, I'm impressed with the gains I've achieved in only 1 year of weight training..I've completely changed my genetics...

I get the "Are you on steroids?" at least once a week in the gym or around uni...I tell people that AAS are the only drugs that I haven't done!!!!! Some people just don't understand what hardwork, nutrition and timing, water, rest, and legal supplements can do to someone's body...

All of my max weights have increased over the past week, and I plan on switching up my program/exercises a little this week to jump over a slight plataue and make things more interesting in the gym....

I know for a fact that I'll eventually try a cycle..I'll just do straight up Test Enathate and see how I react, but I'm going to get at least 3 more years of training and proper eating under my belt.
 
I seriously cannot for the life of me remeber where I read that about trib. Had a quick look and can't see anything. If I come across it again I'll post it up. Might well have been one of those bulgarian/romanian studies.

I've always wondered about DHEA being used in combo with a 5-AR and an AI. Surely that would resolve most the problems associated with it?

Im not suprised that trib didn't alter test:epitest ratio. Doesn't it work by increasing LH?
 
par - I'm confused, were you taking dhea as well?

p-mo - I don't think it's even been demonstrated (in any convincing manner, anyways) to even touch lh levels.

About dhea, shit, if someone makes it happen and work properly, kudos to you, and make sure to keep a huge log of what you used, as you'll basically be starting a fad that'll last 6mo-1yr before dhea is pulled. My best guess? You won't start the fad because it won't be worth it in the end, whether it's barely effective, or slightly effective yet serious sides (hairline recession with, say, a 5lbs muscle gain - that's a losing experiment in my book). I'd be all for it, but hell, I sold the stuff, and out of any kid who I tried to talk out of buying it for this use, it wouldn't work, and sure enough, they would NOT be back for more the next month, unsurprisingly. But again, not trying to rain on anyone's parade, as I dunno the specifics on why it's generally considered either a bad idea or just completely ineffective, and maybe, just maybe, there would be a way to make it work, although again, seems it would've been simple enough for millions to figure out by now had that been the case)
 
I would agree, and I am in no way suggesting a DHEA cycle (if there is such a thing), as it would be a terrible idea. Taking a gram a day is not only impractical, but i would imagine there would also be a good amount of conversion to estrogen, DHT, maybe 5-AD, so yes the side-effects would be significant at high doses, and the gains perhaps ok at best. You would probably need arimidex or tamoxifen with high doses of DHEA, and if your going through this trouble, why not just get some test E...

DHEA could be used at lower doses as a supplement (~100mg/day) but i would think the use would still have to be cycled with this, and could still have side-effects. The reason why I brought it up was as a comparison to tribulus, in that it is an OTC product that is probably more effective. My guess is that because of the current anti-performance enhancing climate, DHEA will be banned or made a prescription med in the near future...
 
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Yeah, in no way could I be arsed trying it! I just meant someone with a more vested interest (like a sup company).

I've heard of people using this post cycle and I imagine it could have limited use this way. Not fully post cycle but say in the 2 week gap between your last test shot and starting PCT if you were using a long ester.

I've got a predisposition to MPB anyways so I'm not wanting to do anything to speed that up. Im actually starting Finasteride 1.5mg/ED to try and stave it off and might start on the old rogain.
 
Don't let me disrupt your flow but I was wondering what are the top 10 or so recreational sports supplements that are generally easy to obtain.
 
Yeah this has become a bit of a "chat" thread hasn't it!!

To be honest top 10 might be pushing it.... I'd say:

1. Whey Protein
2. Creatine
3. Caffine
4. Multi-Vit
5. Dextrose (if you can call this a sup)
6. Glutamine
7. ALA
8. ALCAR
9. Green Tea Extracts
10....... out

Some might add fish oil caps but I generally just try and keep my fish intake high. Although I do drink about 50ml of hemp oil a day... is that a sup?

all those past #5 are very optional and only worth it if you've got $$ to spend. (altho aanallein would prob say that glutamine is well worth it :))
 
I fond that the omega3 stuff really helped me but I just don't know exactly in what way, mentally I think so, physical pain from the depression decreased a great deal. However, I don't know what came first the chicken or the egg.
 
Alright, i know i'm going to sound like a compleate idiot posting this but here we go.

I'm 16 years old, and weigh 165 pounds. I don't think i'm fat and my arms are sort of skinny. I don't have a belly but it does seem like all my weight goes to my legs haha, their huge. Right now i can bench 140 which i know is really sad for my age and weight. I never really got into weight training but i just bought s gym membership and will try and go atleast 4-5 times a week during the summer. Also i eat a lot of calories every day, my estimite would be around 3000-4000, for lunch about 4 times a week i eat a burger, fries, 2 cookies, mixed fruit and vegtables and a little carton of chocolate milk. For breakfast i will normally eat 1-2 bowls of cerial. My dinners are normally just average some-what healthy dinners. I also eat a bag of chips and maybe some other snacks during the day. Another thing i want to point out is that i don't like drinking plain milk, so that's not an option for me.

What i want is to lose some of the fat in my legs, and really put some muscle in my arms as fast as possible and also work on other parts of my body (but not really legs). Right now i cannot take any suppliments (including protein powder) so i have to stick with natural sources. I was wondering where i could go to get a wourkout plan and also what would be some good nutrition tips for me?
 
I think your estimating your calories WAAAYY to high. From that diet it looks like closer to 2000-2500. When you eat clean calories are hard to get and require a SHITLOAD of food.

I would suggest adding in 2 or 3 extra meals a day. Have a meal of eggs, steak, chicken or tuna before bed (I like eggs or steak because they're super easy to cook. Steak is better as it takes longer to digest than eggs). If you cant take protein powder ensure your getting adequte protein PWO. Maybe eat a tin of tuna pre-workout then eggs PWO. With PWO add something sugary. Drink half a litre of coke or OJ or something (just sugar in water will do).

Oh and in terms of portions the word "little" should not be in your volcab (apart from next to bad words like cake, beer or pizza!)

I dont drink plain milk either. I usually buy a shitload of it tho and make protein/weightgain shakes with it. Drinking 1/2 litres of chocolate milk a day isnt too bad an option at your stage.

Theres as many workout plans as bbers! I cant be arsed writing one up- maybe someone else would be as kind.
 
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