Doctors taking recreational drugs ?!

[KemicalBurn]

er?

LOL. What the hell are you talking about ?
I said that I am aware of the effects of drugs on the brain. I am aware of how drugs effect the brain and their exact neurochemical reactions. I made this comment as someone suggested that I didnt know. I never mentioned anything about being a doctor.

You have stated several times that you "know more than doctors about drugs" and also "you know just as much as they do".

Stop pinpointing your own argument. Im trying to show you the one of the many facets of drug use

 

[breakyaself]

wow! A whole year? Forgive me, i had no idea i was speaking to an academic! All drugs? What do you know of the DO* series? nothing. thats what. There is no fathomable way your texts can cover all drugs. Its just not possible.

If you had said "neuropharmacology" (shall i wait for you to look that up?) then you may have swayed my opinion, but neurobiology? LOL

Neurochemistry covers enough of what i need to know about drug reactions. Which is all I am saying that I know about. You still havent answered me how this knowledge stops damage on the brain.

 

[zephyr]

Hypothetical:
Someone is having a heroin overdose. what do you give them? Would benzos help the situation? what about anti-histamines?

naloxone HCl or something like that...but Im not a doctor so I dunno.

 

[breakyaself]

You have stated several times that you "know more than doctors about drugs" and also "you know just as much as they do".

Stop pinpointing your own argument. Im trying to show you the one of the many facets of drug use

I never said I know more.. I said I know just about as much as doctors do, about how illegal drugs effect the brain. I would love to sit here all day and repeat myself, but I have a life.

 

[Doppelganger]

Oh definately benzo's kb... 10 at least.

I'll reply to this thread when I get home later today.

Happy debating folks.

 

[breakyaself]

Heaps looking forward to the inevitable post by duckboy tho

As am I. I am sure that he is an intelligent person, who maybe the only person who could possibly make me see that drug use for doctors is ok. At the moment I dont think it is.

 

[KemicalBurn]

"what you need to know" and "what you are saying know", are two completely different things.

As i said before, opiates dont do any damage to the brain. Yet its also not OK for doctors to do these either.

Have you made up your mind what you point is yet, or even better yet, have you discovered the way to present your argument so as not to contradict yourself?

 

[breakyaself]

"what you need to know" and "what you are saying know", are two completely different things.

What the hell does this mean ? I am not saying I can perform the duties a doctor can I AM SAYING THAT I HAVE AN ACUTE UNDERSTANDING OF DRUG USE AND ITS EFFECTS ON THE BRAIN.

As i said before, opiates dont do any damage to the brain. Yet its also not OK for doctors to do these either.

I also addressed this. I said that if your use gets in the way of your job, then you shouldnt be doing it. I said that if it poses any long term effects, how neurotoxicity does (addiction is a possible one) then you shouldnt be using.

Have you made up your mind what you point is yet, or even better yet, have you discovered the way to present your argument so as not to contradict yourself?

I have made my point very clear. I have not once contradicted myself.

 

[KemicalBurn]

What the hell does this mean ? I am not saying I can perform the duties a doctor can I AM SAYING THAT I HAVE AN ACUTE UNDERSTANDING OF DRUG USE AND ITS EFFECTS ON THE BRAIN.

And im telling you you dont. Unless youve complete some sort of grad degree related to this, then no you dont. and its presumptuous for you to assume otherwise.

I dont even think Bliz0r would say something so arrogant. and he's doing his PhD in neuropharmacology.

But what am I thinking? You're doing psychology and youve completed a whole damn year on this subject!

I also addressed this. I said that if your use gets in the way of your job, then you shouldnt be doing it. I said that if it poses any long term effects, how neurotoxicity does (addiction is a possible one) then you shouldnt be using.

So, how much drugs do you have to take before neurotoxicity becomes a bad thing and affects your work? Is MDMA neurotoxic? Has this been proven? Can neurotoxicity be reversed? Is it as cut and dried as you require it to be for your argument to hold water?

Neurochemistry covers enough of what i need to know about drug reactions.

So now what you know only covers "enough"? You're slipping.

 

[FaTz]

KB thanks for backing up my points and continuing the discussion. I'm giving up. This is honestly just going around in circles

 

[Duckboy]

Hi Ho!

i unfortuantely don't have time to make many/any useful comments here right now, but thanks NJ for the heads up

Breaka - you HAVE met me, glad that you apparently didn't care to though. Beer and conversation were had, for quite a few hours. Possibly something in your system at the time led to you not remembering?? I don't know.
I'm not one for personal attacks, so i'll let it go *sob*

Zephyr - just to clear something up - Drs are NOT allowed to write prescriptions for themselves. And the only ppl in the hospital trade capable of grabbing illegal prescription drugs easily are nurses and pharmacists, at least in Victoria - such items are kept in a locked area and are only accessed by these people.

I like that this seems to be an attack on doctors. As fatz stated - how about ANYONE who takes other people's safety into their responsibility?
I do know of many doctors/nurses/physio's/ambulance paramedics that might dabble in recreational drugs. I do know that they perform their daily resposibilities admirably and would never use said substances within a certain timeframe of having to work (and i am talking 3 to 4 days here, at least, often a week).

Anyways, i think a certain someone first has to provide some published evidence in a reputable journal; firstly that mdma is in fact neurotoxic... (we've all seen propaganda pictures of holes in brains - these people, i can guarantee you, did not have MDMA as a single causative agent to support such claims).

I shall hopefully have somthing worthwhile to contribute later, but at the moment (somewhat ironically) i'm kinda busy helping look after a young girl with methamphetamine-induced psychosis and a heart attack.

 

[potato]

Breakabeat, first of all i must say i have little to no idea what you are talking about wrt being scattered. 2 weeks? I feel sorry for those people.
I have had very few occasions where I have felt 'scattered' after pills, and all have been when I haven't slept enough. Residual scatteredness has always dissipated within a day so long as i sleep. There have been many occasions where I have not had any 'scattered effect'. I just dont think that it's as big a problem as you make out.


Or are you simply referring to the lowered serotonin levels after MDMA use? As you said those can last up to three months (though from memory even after 2 weeks they're back to >90% original, can find ref for you if you require). Even with this the case, lowered serotonin levels correlate more with mood alteration than any sort of deficit in mental capacity, and there are certainly no studies to link low serotonin levels to decreased ability/adeptitude/coordination. So in other words, you are talking out your arse there.


I personally would have no issue seeing a doctor 30 hours after they had consumed MDMA, if they'd maintained a normal sleep pattern. Or did you mean surgeon, not GP? Please try and be clear in what you mean, if you meant surgeon or specialist, then say that.
Even a surgeon I wouldn't have a problem operating on me say 56+ hours after pilling. I think you vastly overestimate the detrimental after-effects of these drugs. It's not like they'd be operating munted FFS.


Finally your allegations of neurotoxicity are not only NOT backed up by scientific literature at this stage (show me proof of neurotoxicity in humans at rec. doses and I'll give you $50. Seriously) but are completely irrelevant since there is no research indicating what effect (if any) on mental function such neurotoxicity has in humans. IF MDMA is neurotoxic in humans (and that's a pretty big if!) I'd say not much, looking at the hordes of people that have been consuming in britain since the late 80s (and early 80s in Denver!).


Grant, you mentioned that MDMA causes memory loss. I dont believe this is true, if anything the literature indicates that even long term MDMA use has little effect on memory and cognitive power. I say this because in the studies that properly control for cannabis use among its subjects, there is no difference between MDMA users and the control group in terms of recall and cognition. It is only the studies that didn't properly control for cannabis use that found a decrease in mental function for MDMA users. (again, give me 24 hrs to find my refs)


So overall, if the doctor is responsible, and has a couple of days between drug use and returning to work, I see no reason why they shouldn;t be allowed to indulge with a clear conscience.

Potato

 

[up all night]

Actually Mel, our arguments about sleep dep DO have a lot to do with this argument considering your 'disgust' at doctors who take drugs is largely based around your concern for their memory and ability to do their job properly.

Sleep deprivation has very similar effects and yet many doctors have to deal with this every day.

I really think you're blowing this way out of proportion. And if you use words that are as emotive and judgemental as 'disgusting' while only having superficial knowledge of drugs you have to expect people to want to push you off your soapbox.

 

[KemicalBurn]

If occassional drug uses have been scanned with massive holes in their brains.

lmao!Thats been proven as a myth. Did you get all of your knowledge of drugs by watching Oprah?

Moderator! Moderator! I call shenanigans on Breakyself!

 

[potato]

Sleep dep always scatters me way more than any of the drugs I've ever consumed..

 

[zephyr]

Duckboy- do you mean ANY prescription? My old boss did write prescriptions for himself, (me too so Im not going to complain) but Im not sure what you mean by "illegal prescription drugs"- not dexamphetamine and the like but valium, temazepam etc etc...

 

[breakyaself]

^^ Your attacks are not only funny, but stupid. Its pretty easy to learn how drugs effect the brain. Its not arrogent. I would be seriously in some trouble if I didnt know. Lots of trouble - how could I pass a whole unit that only discussed how drugs effect the brain if I didnt know? I am not talking about all damage caused by all drugs. I am talking about what happens when you take a drug.. what your neurochemical responses are to that drug. Its basic basic shit. An idiot could learn it if taught it. Its imposssible to know how drugs absolute effect on the brain.. no conclusive longitudinal research has been conducted which is what is required to know the full effects - or damage - that drugs cause the brain. I think you and I are talking about something else.. I think this is boiling down to semantics..

And you are talking like I

(a) I am being agressive
(b) arrogent

Which I find very funny, because I started this thread thinking that maybe I was attacking duckboy in another thread and there should be open discussion on the topic to provide a different point of view on the topic. I have only expressed beliefs I have which I am not passing off as factual other than facts I have stated about neurotoxicity. I have only said I know how what happens to the brain when you ingest a drug. Anyone can learn that. I said that I knew as much as a doctor would about the biology and neurochemistry of the brain in relation to it what happens when its effected by illegal substances.

Sometimes I wish I could go back to being like you KB. Full of hot steam with no where to go

 

[KemicalBurn]

Sometimes I wish I could go back to being like you KB. Full of hot steam with no where to go

Not all of us can aspire to the dizzying heights that a psychology degree would take us to

 

[potato]

Sounds like mel has been indoctrinated in some of those psych classes where they learn about the effect of drugs on the brain.

Hon, dont buy all the shit they feedin you. If you want to know what the cutting edge stance on permanent effects/neurotoxicity/LD50 & safety.. YOU GONNA HAVE TO READ THE LITERATURE!!!!!!!!!

Which you clearly haven't done, at least not anything published in the last 5 years (that holes in the brain bullshit is 8+ years old!)

PS. Mel for a psych major you have real shitty grammar and spelling.

Its pretty easy to learn how drugs effect the brain

Effect is a noun, nonsensical in this context. You require the use of the verb, 'affect'.

Its not arrogent

No, it's not. In fact, nothing is 'arrogent', cos it's not a word. You mean arrogant.

 

[breakyaself]

I really think you're blowing this way out of proportion. And if you use words that are as emotive and judgemental as 'disgusting' while only having superficial knowledge of drugs you have to expect people to want to push you off your soapbox.

What would you know what knowledge I have about drugs. It is far from superficial. But thanks though.

And all im doing is responding to what people have written.

I find it quite funny though you are calling me judgemental and emotional, when infact I think other than using that one word, I have been pretty calm. Unlike 90% of the other responses in this thread.