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Do you really want and would you accept a supernatural God?

GolemGolem said:
Hrmm, you seem to be talking about a revealed and undeniable God that could communicate his desires clearly, that would kind of take all the fun out of God wouldn't it?
I've never wanted to kill God, but I have wanted to end all of Creation - heaven, hell, earth, mars, distant quasars, ducks, sub-atomic particles, me, you - the whole deal gone faster than light. Sometimes that seems to be the only way to end suffering.
God is treated as a servant already, I'm afraid of our evolutionary possibilities, and disgusted with the lack of order I see.
I believe in God, but I pray for guiltless oblivion.
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Agreed
 
It does not seem to be Gods Plan, far as the eggheads can tell it's going to be a slow freeze for the universe. Arguably kind, but breaks my heart.
 
As to suffering the freeze is way too slow for my taste. What breaks my heart is the unrealizable possibilities my mind can conjure.

However I'm curious as to what you mean by your heart breaking?
 
Cosmic Trigger said:
Not buying sorry. Quite easy?, global warming, overpopulation, environmental degradation, unending wars and genocide. If it's quite easy why are so many running in terror from their homeland? Why are people starving as we chat. Fuck I could go on and on. That youtube addressed none of our current problems. Things go up and then they crash. Take a real study of history and ancient civilizations, it's an eyeopener.

Btw I have no illusions that I'll convince you. Just sayin it anyway. Peace out.
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What would convince me is stats and all the ones I follow, death by violence including war, poverty, crime and slavery are all at the best levels per capita that we have ever enjoyed.

Fewer suffer over time as those show but I understand if you want to ignore them.

Regards
DL
 
I won't ignore them but it hardly matters to the millions who are still suffering and will for many generations and you don't know what may be in the works within the next couple of decades if global warming, overpopulation, loss of water resources, etc. continue. That is not to mention how many that have resources are on drugs and depressed and alcoholic and the domestic violence and on and on. I just have different criteria for what is acceptable in my world.
 
Gnostic Bishop said:
What would convince me is stats and all the ones I follow, death by violence including war, poverty, crime and slavery are all at the best levels per capita that we have ever enjoyed.

Fewer suffer over time as those show but I understand if you want to ignore them.

Regards
DL
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That also bugs me Gnostic. By all objective accounts humanity is doing better than ever - existential threats and all, however. . .It's my and others subjective accounts that I feel in my heart.
It's the personal things that hurt - leading to an arguably damaged filter being placed over Man's consciousness.
I'm the one unable to take joy in the dawning new age with the others facing a forever worsening quality of life - for us and our family anyway. I feel burning yet impotent anger at the Beneficent Masters NOT being God, and rubbing our noses in their fallibility with each objectively terrible decision they make and then demand we implement. The communities in which I find my self are communities of decay, and decay hurts, and can last for a very, very long time.
So does growth, but it's different if you have real hope and can feel you and your tribes abilities growing ever sharper, ever stronger, maybe even more just.

So it's likely good for the world that folks like Me don't have that kind of power.
 
GolemGolem said:
That also bugs me Gnostic. By all objective accounts humanity is doing better than ever - existential threats and all, however. . .It's my and others subjective accounts that I feel in my heart.
It's the personal things that hurt - leading to an arguably damaged filter being placed over Man's consciousness.
I'm the one unable to take joy in the dawning new age with the others facing a forever worsening quality of life - for us and our family anyway. I feel burning yet impotent anger at the Beneficent Masters NOT being God, and rubbing our noses in their fallibility with each objectively terrible decision they make and then demand we implement. The communities in which I find my self are communities of decay, and decay hurts, and can last for a very, very long time.
So does growth, but it's different if you have real hope and can feel you and your tribes abilities growing ever sharper, ever stronger, maybe even more just.

So it's likely good for the world that folks like Me don't have that kind of power.
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There are challenges for us for sure but I also see them as opportunities for us to continue to improve ourselves as we have been doing over time.

Thanks to boredom, if we did not have these challenges and other things to argue and fight over, we would likely intentionally put some in place just to keep boredom away.

Regards
DL
 
Cosmic Trigger said:
I won't ignore them but it hardly matters to the millions who are still suffering and will for many generations and you don't know what may be in the works within the next couple of decades if global warming, overpopulation, loss of water resources, etc. continue. That is not to mention how many that have resources are on drugs and depressed and alcoholic and the domestic violence and on and on. I just have different criteria for what is acceptable in my world.
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You are whining about natural eugenics and the fact that the fittest survive.

What you do not know of the coming decades, demographers already know of and things like the population will stabilize and begin to fall at around 10 billion.

The Earth can easily carry that number even if we are not bright enough to get our collective act together.

We have many problems we could collectively fight but seem to prefer to fight amongst ourselves.

Regards
DL
 
Whining? You call the concern for suffering humanity whining? So if your child is beaten to death and tortured by a bully or madman you think it would be whining for you to grieve? I mean it's survival of the fittest right? I'm so proud to share the planet with such attitudes towards others. When something happens to someone you consider valuable I'll be there to call you on any "whining".

The earth can easily carry 10 billion when people are starving now and we are just entering and accelerated period of global climate change and water shortages not to mention the other types of pollution generated by increasing human populations? The problem IS that humans prefer to fight among themselves and think it's quite nice to stick another human in every available foot of usable space.
 
Cosmic Trigger said:
Whining? You call the concern for suffering humanity whining? So if your child is beaten to death and tortured by a bully or madman you think it would be whining for you to grieve? I mean it's survival of the fittest right? I'm so proud to share the planet with such attitudes towards others. When something happens to someone you consider valuable I'll be there to call you on any "whining".

The earth can easily carry 10 billion when people are starving now and we are just entering and accelerated period of global climate change and water shortages not to mention the other types of pollution generated by increasing human populations? The problem IS that humans prefer to fight among themselves and think it's quite nice to stick another human in every available foot of usable space.
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Go ahead and keep looking at the few sick trees and ignore the healthy forest.

You see problems while some see opportunities.

Regards
DL
 
Go ahead and ignore the problems because they have not yet landed on your doorstep. That is the common way as all of history has shown, then it's usually too late. Wear your blinders and pretend there is no cliff. Unless you hadn't noticed healthy forests are becoming rare.
 
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Just because something is at the peak of its game doesn't mean it shouldn't improve. And I'm not talking about changing the natural balance, I'm talking ethics. A lot of problems (enviornmental, social, political, medical) would be drastically changed if we had better systems in place.

Honestly I know you were just using trees for people as just a metaphor, but it isn't really that compatible. When a tree dies, other trees don't care. It is rather different for people. There is a lot of sick, cruel shit in the world BECAUSE OF US. It used to be because of primitive understandings, but now we've got hardly an excuse.

The dumbest law where I live is, no shit, "No one may carry an ice cream cone in their back pocket on a Sunday."

What in the actual fuck.



By the way, I'm afraid that the sick, few trees are sick because we made them sick, and I think its best we get a better system before all the trees have to die. Which, historically, is a very real and very deadly possibility... and the biggest danger is thinking that it isn't.
 
One that doesn't disregard or brush off the few who don't get benefits even though we cause the hardships, yet to no expense at the ones who cause them.

Life, libety and the pursuit of happiness by people. Govenment is just a net for equal promotion.

DXM, anyone?
 
Nixiam said:
One that doesn't disregard or brush off the few who don't get benefits even though we cause the hardships, yet to no expense at the ones who cause them.

Life, libety and the pursuit of happiness by people. Govenment is just a net for equal promotion.

DXM, anyone?
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IOW. You could not improve on what we are already doing which is pulling 1 full billion out of poverty in the last 20 years ansd plan on doing that again in the next 20 years.

Your glass is mostly empty while what the rest of us have is a mostly filling glass.

And the world has hardly had to do much direct redistribution yet.

Sure we could do better but not without ideas and I see you did not have a workable one.

Regards
DL
 
Let's have a look at your links on this billion out of poverty because I'm hearing something else even here in Amerika.

That glass half empty and half full shit is meaningless unless there is some reality behind it. Just because you want to believe the whole world is awakening to a bright new future doesn't mean that it's not really exactly the opposite. So I'm looking forward to what you got.
 
Gnostic Bishop said:
IOW. You could not improve on what we are already doing which is pulling 1 full billion out of poverty in the last 20 years ansd plan on doing that again in the next 20 years.

Your glass is mostly empty while what the rest of us have is a mostly filling glass.

And the world has hardly had to do much direct redistribution yet.

Sure we could do better but not without ideas and I see you did not have a workable one.

Regards
DL
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At my age and with my experience, a workable one is hardly within my reach. You're disagreeing that we cause problems for others due to bad ethics in even the best first world governments?

Here's an example, marijuana prohibition.
 
Cosmic Trigger said:
Let's have a look at your links on this billion out of poverty because I'm hearing something else even here in Amerika.

That glass half empty and half full shit is meaningless unless there is some reality behind it. Just because you want to believe the whole world is awakening to a bright new future doesn't mean that it's not really exactly the opposite. So I'm looking forward to what you got.
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http://www.economist.com/news/leade...out-extreme-poverty-20-years-world-should-aim

Nixiam said:
At my age and with my experience, a workable one is hardly within my reach. You're disagreeing that we cause problems for others due to bad ethics in even the best first world governments?

Here's an example, marijuana prohibition.
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I did not indicate that we are not causing problems with our poor morals and ethics.

I was indicating that most of us are moral and that is why we look to the poor.

I agree that prohibition of various psychotropic drugs is unethical and immoral as they are mostly products of racism against various groups.

Cannabis was restricted because of the use of it by blacks and opium was prohibited because of Chinese use. Just to name a couple.

The other main reason was to protect the alcohol and tobacco industries and keep their bribes coming in.

Regards
DL
 
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