Tryptamines [DMT Subthread] Injecting (crystal clear) Extracts

[Jabberwocky]

I don't want this thread to be derailed into a needle vs no needle debate. There's enough of that on BL (search for it if you're curious). I'll just say that there's nothing intrinsically more awful about IVing a psychedelics than vaporizing it. In fact, if you could do it safely, the health benefits lay on the IV side all things being equal. Have you ever smoked lots of DMT in a session? Its ROUGH on your lungs after a half dozen hits of the stuff.

Let's keep it on topic please...safe techniques for injecting extracted tryptamines (specifically DMT).

 

[Echoes22]

I have and never found it to be especially rough unless you put a flame straight on the stuff. Vaporizing it hurts less than smoking weed in my experience. Taste-wise on the other hand, it's completely terrible.

And I apologize for talking down to the needle users, whatever floats your boat I guess..

But health-wise, what are you talking about? All things equal, extracted DMT seems safer in your lungs than in your veins..what was the whole thing about allergic reactions from potential plant matter in the IV solution?

 

[Echoes22]

And from the mental hygiene perspective, smoking it seems a lot more sane to me than injecting it; by that I mean mostly that the guilt from using a needle is much greater than the guilt that comes from inhaling fumes. Plus, since IV'ing is a very poorly documented way of doing the drug, just having the idea in your head that you are going in uncharted territory is a lot more stressful on your psyche than doing something than you know.
The health "benefits" (if you can even call it that) would perhaps go in the direction of IV if you had the means to check the purity first and if you were doing the drug in a controlled environment - with a doctor injecting the drug in your arm for example...

 

[fizzacyst]

Once you start using needles (in general), you will get over that guilt or "im doing something very wrong feeling" pretty quickly, especially if you use something with reinforcing properties. ... or if you IM some of the simpler (structurally) tryptamines and find that most of the annoying or crappy side effects are gone.

 

[Jabberwocky]

I don't have this guilt associated with IV use or with masturbation (I mention this only because its a common guilt-trip to be programmed to take afterwards), or drug use in general. I think they are just ways to explore my body, mind, and reality in general.

Not to sound cliche, but I think psychedelics have helped me blow through a lot of those thoughts and ideas that were once ingrained in my head. Now I feel like my own man, exploring the world with my own thoughts! (probably has a lot to do with just simply maturing also...).

 

[Echoes22]

I don't have this guilt associated with IV use or with masturbation (I mention this only because its a common guilt-trip to be programmed to take afterwards), or drug use in general. I think they are just ways to explore my body, mind, and reality in general.

Not to sound cliche, but I think psychedelics have helped me blow through a lot of those thoughts and ideas that were once ingrained in my head. Now I feel like my own man, exploring the world with my own thoughts! (probably has a lot to do with just simply maturing also...).

Right, who said anything bad about the drug itself?
It seems like you are telling me that because you are more mature, you understand that needles are better? This sounds completely insane to me, especially coming from the moderator a harm-reduction site.

 

[Jabberwocky]

no, no, no, you misunderstood me completely....all I am saying is that I do not feel guilt necessarily for using IV drugs because the society I live in tells me I should (for what reason?). IV opiates or IV stimulants are CERTAINLY more harmful (more addictive is the reason). But, some psychedelics are just simply better administered by IV or IM (thats into a muscle). The pharmacodynamics are just simply superior. I suspect with DMT the breakthrough on an IV administered dose will be cleaner/crisper (if that makes sense?!) and you won't have sore lungs the next day if you choose to take a few doses in on that session. The reason I like to take multiple doses in one 'session' is that I can work myself into an almost delerious 'ayahuasca' dream state...similar in a lot of ways but much more cleaner (and of course more spikier) than oral DMT.

Well....I suppose we can keep this discussion going...I guess we already covered all the ground we needed to about the technique for administering and all the safety issues....

 

[butane]

Echoes22, I think you just have trypanophobia. (Needle phobia) There's absolutely nothing wrong with using needles to administer drugs, just your preconceived notions. When done safely and properly, there is no risk. In fact, The Spirit Molecule by Rick Strassman is a book from the mid-nineties (1996 maybe?) about a series of studies done on DMT at the University of New Mexico. All of their administration was intravenous.

It's intensity with a given dose is far more consistent as compared to smoking, enabling greater repeatability of studies and far easier dosing in general. With smoking, there's no guarantee that you're inhaling and absorbing it all. However, when injected, one hundred percent of that DMT is going to your brain, no two ways about it.

 

[Echoes22]

This place is getting too hardcore for me I guess. Needle phobia eh? I mean yea aren't you supposed to be scared when your life gets to the point where you are IV'ing shit straight into your blood stream?

 

[Jabberwocky]

why so negative? Its an injection. Yes, its serious business. But vaporizing DMT is also serious business and should be approached with a lot of caution. Of course there are precautions you should take if you IV just like if you smoke it. Different precautions (hence the original purpose of this thread before it got derailed here).

Couldn't you imagine the situation reversed, for instance you live in a society where IV is completely accepted BUT GASP some people actually put their drugs on tin foil and VAPORIZE them!! What kind of crazy individuals are these 'vaporizers'? I suspect they are deviants myself!!!!

8)

Would you rather we not talk about safe techniques for injecting extracted DMT? I for one am interested in it and would like a place to discuss it with other knowledgeable folks. That is, after all, like you pointed out, the purpose of this site (harm reduction).

 

[fizzacyst]

Its a hard hurdle to get over if you've been conditioned to think that way. I'm not saying I recommend it though.

Have you never had an IV in a hospital or anything? Its really not much different if done correctly.

(feel free to prune this post if needed)

 

[Jabberwocky]

I already asked the PD mods to split this discussion off from this thread so I suppose more posts will just go with the others, so feel free to voice your opinions on this if you are interested, I guess. I don't think this forum software leaves a post directing where the split posts went, so Echoes and others, don't be surprised if it disappears to get moved somewhere else. I'd rather this thread remain uncluttered so its a good source of information (fizzacyst and dondante in particular have posted some good stuff here thats helpful to me when/if I eventually do IV DMT).

wow I'm stoned because that passage extrapolated into something more complex than I originally intended (a one line reply reporting that I asked for a split).

 

[Echoes22]

I didn't realize our society accepted people putting drugs on tin foil and vaporizing them...

 

[Dondante]

... if you had the means to check the purity first and if you were doing the drug in a controlled environment - with a doctor injecting the drug in your arm for example...

For the most part, I agree. However, the technique of sterile injection itself is not terribly complicated and can be adequately learned in a few minutes from an experienced guide. That being said, 99.9% of IV drug users do not follow the guidelines, and therefore end up exposing themselves to added risks.

With regards to guilt ... if it accompanies any of your drug use (with any method of administration), perhaps you should rethink the reason you are taking the drug in the first place. In moderation, experiencing the wonders of the psychedelic state should never under any circumstances be accompanied by guilt

... unless of course you are Catholic.

I mean yea aren't you supposed to be scared when your life gets to the point where you are IV'ing shit straight into your blood stream?

BTW, I'm going to be IVing shit into a lot of people's bloodstreams in the very near future ... 3rd year of medical school being just around the corner and all. I'll just have a little more experience than the majority of my peers.

The pharmacodynamics are just simply superior.

That's a matter of opinion of course.

I do think we should try and minimize the amount of IV discussion in this forum, seeing as this is a harm reduction website. At least the pro-IV attitude ... I think it needs to go. If someone administers psychedelics via IM, IV, or subQ, it should be stated in a matter-of-fact way, instead of "holy f*&#ing shit, IVing psychedelics is so awesome!" Sometimes I get the feeling that all the talk is baiting less experienced users to do something they're not comfortable with. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Jabberwocky]

yeah dondante agree about your last point, but the subtlety of my last point may have been lost, I wasn't speaking in regards to specifically DMT, I was just offering the almost positive certainty that there exists at least some chemical that is superior via IV than vaporization (at least a conceptual point if this chemical does not in fact exist).

I agree that pro-IV attitude should leave...and I think recently you'll notice the people that have been discussing it (myself included) have made an effort to cut it out (almost completely). The only recent mentioning of it that I have made (if you discount this thread which is quite obviously in the spirit of harm reduction) was to post an IV ketamine TR that was an attempt to discourage IV use!

ok lol I'm really stoned now and am going to back out of this discussion before I confuse myself anymore!

 

[fizzacyst]

agreed about IVing not being recommended. If I've come off like that, it wasn't really intentional, or more of a devil's advocate sort of thing for discussion. I dont' think it should be totally avoided, as people are going to do it... but encouraged, no.

Honestly, DMT is something I will never IV (well, i guess i can't say never... but it would take a lot to convince me). I'd probably just piss on myself/scare the hell out of myself and get put off from DMT.

 

[DivineMomenT]

IV was the method of administration in Strassman's studies. Granted, they used pure grade stuff. Smoking it is just inconsistent. I think IV would be a great way to take DMT although I wouldn't recommend it to everyone. Of course there are risks involved.

As far as extracted DMT goes, I would try to clean it up as much as possible. I cannot imagine shooting clean extracted dmt to be any worse than shooting black tar heroin.

 

[Xorkoth]

Regarding IVing... I don't do it, and I don't plan to. I actually do have needle phobia. But although granted it has the potential to be much more dangerous than other methods of administration, nothing about it is inherently "bad" as some seem to be suggesting. It is used in medical practices all the time... in fact it is most consistent and reliable way to administer a dose of a drug in a controlled manner. There is no difference in self-administering by IV versus a doctor administering except your preconceived notions. IVing drugs into your veins does not mean you suck at life or that your life is going down the shitter. You just think that because IV drug use is demonized in society to a far greater extent than other forms of drug-taking, undoubtedly due to heroin abuse. Many, probably most, people who IV drugs are in a very bad place, it's true. But that's circumstantial... it doesn't mean it's true for everyone. Correlation does not equal causation.

That said, I do think it should be discouraged in general because it has to be done very precisely to not be dangerous. Plus there are much easier ways of taking psychedelics. I certainly would never recommend to anyone that they start IVing things. But for those who have explored greatly, it's a viable option and it would be censorship to ban discussion of it, especially just because it makes you uncomfortable.

 

[Jabberwocky]

plus with a lot of psychedelic drugs (mainly thinking about the ones that are MAOIs) the possibility for fatal reactions is DRASTICALLY increased....peak plasma levels are VERY HIGH in comparison to oral administration.

This is not very relevant for DMT, moreso for the phenethylamines...but just thought I'd toss that out there.

 

[psilocybonaut]

If each drug is a gateway to the next, perhaps you should rethink taking the last step in the progression. IV'ing DMT to make it a "healthier" practice than smoking it? Are you really concerned with this or with just getting higher? Maybe I'm the only one here who thinks using needles to get high = you completely suck at life.

What next.. trying to inject it into your tear dots?
It makes me a little sad that everyone seems to be supporting these awful ways of doing drugs..

This is extremely ignorant. IV use (done correctly and sterile by an experienced person, of course) is safer than snorting or smoking. I'm not talking about repeated IV administration, that fucks you up. I'm talking about taking one shot.

And by the way, the point of using a wheel filter is to make it safer so that NO PLANT MATERIAL WILL BE IN THE SHOT.

Why don't you mind your own business? Maybe if you didn't come to conclusions and generalize everyone that uses needles, you would know that there is a difference between a junkie shooting up with toilet water and a psychonaut using a wheel filter with a completely sterile setup to do one IV shot. I honestly don't know why you posted in this thread other than to start shit.

Maybe I'm the only one here who thinks using needles to get high = you completely suck at life.

Why are you posting in a thread about IV prep then? This info is obviously for harm reduction, and no one is recommending/glorifying IV administration. It is the choice of the user and the user only. Shouldn't you mind your own business and let us "stupid people who suck at life" do whatever we fucking want?

Now we're so off topic, I really would like to get back on topic.