Declaring war on the police?

[StoneHappyMonday]

But by no way is the current legislation evil to any extent.

Current drug legislation is largely made up on racist premises - to that extent, yes it is evil.

Off topic. But you started it.

 

[muzzard]

Current drug legislation is largely made up on racist premises - to that extent, yes it is evil.

Off topic. But you started it.

how so? how is the drug legislation based upon rascist premises?

 

[StoneHappyMonday]

I'm surprised you even have to ask.

Our drug legislation stems from America. From Anslinger, Reefer Madness and all that followed. The history of prohibition of drugs is a racist one. Practically all drugs have been banned with racist justifications. That's where your Misuse of Drugs Act originates. And that's what your drugs are banned under.

And don't give me some pissy reply about RC's. Don't miss the bigger picture. Go do some reading on the war on drugs.

It's a good, white Christian war.

 

[muzzard]

I'm surprised you even have to ask.

And don't give me some pissy reply about RC's. Don't miss the bigger picture. Go do some reading on the war on drugs.

why is that surprising? jeez chill your boots, was just asking.

 

[Shambles]

Or for a quick but good (and accurate) summation of how drug law is based predominantly on racism just watch Hooked: Illegal Drugs & How They Got That Way which gives the backstory to how all the major drug groups came to be banned. It's pretty common knowledge that racism has consistently been the driving force behind prohibition. Really isn't some conspiracy bollocks - it's not even disputed and is well documented.

 

[StoneHappyMonday]

people (doing drugs) isn't going to persuade the legislature to change things.

Yes it is.

I've seen a sea change in 25 years of both the number of people doing drugs and society's attitude towards them.

These two things are not unrelated.

We're a million miles from perfect - but no-one goes to prison for a spliff anymore.

Laws can be made logistically impossible, impractical, impotent.

It's your duty to take drugs.

 

[muzzard]

Yes it is.

I've seen a sea change in 25 years of both the number of people doing drugs and society's attitude towards them.

I'll admit defeat in that sense

 

[StoneHappyMonday]

It's pretty common knowledge that racism has consistently been the driving force behind prohibition. Really isn't some conspiracy bollocks - it's not even disputed and is well documented.

Translation.

You can ignore SHM's loony Left rants at other times but here he just happens to collide with reality via serendipity.

 

[muzzard]

Anyway, I have another very interesting (and as yet unmentioned) point to make about the death of Raoul Moat. But I'll wait for this silly arguement to end before making it

So go on then... I'm done with trying to get any sense out of ismene.

 

[Shambles]

Translation.

You can ignore SHM's loony Left rants at other times but here he just happens to collide with reality via serendipity.

Bwahahahaha! Was actually thinking that I'd probably think it was pure Ickism myself if I didn't know the history of it but now you come to mention it...

 

[MDMAhead]

So go on then... I'm done with trying to get any sense out of ismene.

OK. Here's my point................


The police apparently fired tasers at Moat in an attempt to stop him committing suicide. But it is my belief that suicide is a human right. The only legitimate reason for the police to fire anything (including tasers) at Moat would be if Moat had pointed the gun at them.

Sure, the police had the right to try to persuade Moat to surrender. But if the only person Moat posed a threat to was himself, the police had no right to shoot him.

 

[muzzard]

OK. Here's my point................


The police apparently fired tasers at Moat in an attempt to stop him committing suicide. But it is my belief that suicide is a human right. The only legitimate reason for the police to fire anything (including tasers) at Moat would be if Moat had pointed the gun at them.

Sure, the police had the right to try to persuade Moat to surrender. But if the only person Moat posed a threat to was himself, the police had no right to shoot him.

There is no such thing as a 'right to die', most cases have been presented as euthanasia - but still the premise would be the same to non-euthanasia style suicide. Also, the police would want to stop suicides just in case it was due to mental illness etc. Not saying that people should not be allowed to kill them selves in my own view, just saying that the police would have to stop it if they were present.

 

[Shambles]

Isn's suicide actually illegal in the UK? Always thought it was - bizarrely - but obviously not many cases go to court...

 

[Evad]

you can get sectioned for being suicidal, there is certainly no right to suicide in the UK
you can't be arrested for a suicide attempt since the 1961 suicide act though

 

[muzzard]

Isn's suicide actually illegal in the UK? Always thought it was - bizarrely - but obviously not many cases go to court...

Nah its not, there's been a few cases that have gone to European Court of Human Rights. But none of the appeals were successful. Most famously Diane Pretty - there was another one more recent, but I cant remember the name.

I think people generally go to Switzerland if they want to be euthanised

 

[Shambles]

That or to buy cuckoo clocks or open dodgy bank accounts, I suppose. Which would probably good grounds for being euthanised in itself.

Tis odd that the laws are so restrictive on suicide. I understand the need for control to stop vulnerable people being bumped off and stuff but surely sometimes it's clear that it's what the person truly wants and they have the marbles to make the decision. Whether pointing a shotgun at your head and telling the world to fuck off would count as being of sound mind I'm not sure though.

 

[MDMAhead]

There is no such thing as a 'right to die', most cases have been presented as euthanasia - but still the premise would be the same to non-euthanasia style suicide. Also, the police would want to stop suicides just in case it was due to mental illness etc. Not saying that people should not be allowed to kill them selves in my own view, just saying that the police would have to stop it if they were present.

I was referring to morality rather than legality (although forgive my idealism when I say that the laws of the land should be based on moral principles 8) )


When Moat was surrounded by police marksmen, he was basically faced with 2 options:

1) Surrender to the police, knowing that he would then spend the next 15 years in jail

or 2) Commit suicide.

And no one but Moat had the right to make that decision.

 

[StoneHappyMonday]

That or to buy cuckoo clocks or open dodgy bank accounts, I suppose. Which would probably good grounds for being euthanised in itself.

Tis odd that the laws are so restrictive on suicide. I understand the need for control to stop vulnerable people being bumped off and stuff but surely sometimes it's clear that it's what the person truly wants and they have the marbles to make the decision.

It's a Christian thing.

You can't play God. Only God can. It's why it's really hard to get 'suicide' as a verdict unless it's a stone-cold case written in blood....as it were.

And no one but Moat had the right to make that decision.

No-one but God.

 

[muzzard]

I was referring to morality rather than legality

oh right, the way you said the police did not have the right, figured you were on about their legal right.

 

[Shambles]

God knows best, obviously. Wouldn't want to argue with god. He might strike me down in a fit of holy strop.