Harm Reduction Cold Water Extraction (CWE) Mega Thread & FAQ v2.0

[DoctorNinja]

That method is for APAP compounds, and is designed to maximize purity and minimize APAP content. It is NOT suitable for Aspirin compounds(75-85% yield), I'll post the aspirin extraction method later on. The above method allowed to turn:

2000 mg APAP
200mg Codeine

Into:

20mg APAP
190mg Codeine

Works with extremely fine powder. Here's powder guideline assuming you know how to use a mojar properly:

# twists|extraction Yield
15|30%
25|60%
50|75%
75|85%
100|92%
125|95%
150|99%

Chunks of Tylenol won't dissolve in 2mL of water so you won't get the opiate out of those chunks.

 

[DoctorNinja]

Aspirin method:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8V-iqFv-4Ug&feature=channel_video_title

Much longer then the other, APAP works lot betta

 

[OxyChem]

A bit confused about how much water to actually use... If 5 10/660 Hydrocodone/APAP pills are used, how much water would be ideal to use and approximately how much APAP would be left over in the final solution if the CWE is performed adequately?

 

[Mora Fiend]

Everyone is different OxyChem but a good ammount to use for pills like that is 1/2 a cup. Also the colder the water the better, and if you perform the extraction properly the ammount of APAP left in the hydrocodone solution at the end will be very minimal.

 

[dokomo]

Everyone is different OxyChem but a good ammount to use for pills like that is 1/2 a cup. Also the colder the water the better, and if you perform the extraction properly the ammount of APAP left in the hydrocodone solution at the end will be very minimal.

For only 5 tablets? I'd say much less than this. 50mL or less.

1/2 a cup would cause there to be around 1600mg of acetaminophen in the final product (and this assumes perfect filtration, which is never the case.)

I've used about 100mL for 30 7.5/500mL tablets with good results.

 

[Mora Fiend]

For only 5 tablets? I'd say much less than this. 50mL or less.

1/2 a cup would cause there to be around 1600mg of acetaminophen in the final product (and this assumes perfect filtration, which is never the case.)

I've used about 100mL for 30 7.5/500mL tablets with good results.

Less than 1/2 a cup for 30 pills? It wasn't just like pure gunk? I always have that problem when I use less water . The way I was taught years ago was 1/4 cup for every 4 pills and those were 5/325s, I was always under the impression that the temp of the water was the big factor in determining how much APAP got in the solution. I guess I was taught wrong, sorry bout the bad info Oxychem, ta for the info Dokomo.

 

[OxyChem]

Less than 1/2 a cup for 30 pills? It wasn't just like pure gunk? I always have that problem when I use less water . The way I was taught years ago was 1/4 cup for every 4 pills and those were 5/325s, I was always under the impression that the temp of the water was the big factor in determining how much APAP got in the solution. I guess I was taught wrong, sorry bout the bad info Oxychem, ta for the info Dokomo.

Well, you are supposed to have a pile of "gunk" (all the APAP) and a final solution with little to no turbidity. As far as I know, the temperature of the water does indeed make a difference in the amount of APAP dissolved, but amount of water is more important than temperature.

I guess what I'm really looking for is some sort of generic conversion factor or equation or whatever that allows me to simply calculate how much water should be used based on the amount of total APAP.

 

[DoctorNinja]

The process is called leeching in chemical engineering. Leeching depends basically on particle size. I was doing some calculations for a tower yesterday and when going from particle size of 5mm to 0.5mm, the time required for the target compound to diffuse out of the solid particles by concentration gradient went from 3 hours to 45 minutes.

As an engineer, my feeling is that if the powder is fine enough, you need to shake it for 15min tops to get EVERYTHING out.

Well, you are supposed to have a pile of "gunk" (all the APAP) and a final solution with little to no turbidity. As far as I know, the temperature of the water does indeed make a difference in the amount of APAP dissolved, but amount of water is more important than temperature.

I guess what I'm really looking for is some sort of generic conversion factor or equation or whatever that allows me to simply calculate how much water should be used based on the amount of total APAP.

If you obtained gunk it's ok, as long as it's a liquid slurry. You should use about 1:1.5 powder water per volume.

 

[4thDimension]

All the high-ups in the medical industry are very aware of CWE and are in the process of downing the codeine contentin OTC.

I have conflicting feelings regarding the issue. Opiates can easily cause extreme problems in someones life. On the other hand, I love to occasionally chill out wit my icy glass of the bitter beast and watch COPS. Start stocking up lads.

 

[Mora Fiend]

Well, you are supposed to have a pile of "gunk" (all the APAP) and a final solution with little to no turbidity. As far as I know, the temperature of the water does indeed make a difference in the amount of APAP dissolved, but amount of water is more important than temperature.

I guess what I'm really looking for is some sort of generic conversion factor or equation or whatever that allows me to simply calculate how much water should be used based on the amount of total APAP.

Yeah I know that, I should of specified my post. What I meant was anytime I used as little water as Dokomo suggested I am just left with a pile of viscous matter that I can't even filter.

 

[Doktah]

Cloudy CWE with cheap generics?

Hey everyone.

So i recently got bored and decided to try a good 'ole CWE with tylenol 1's. I followed the instructions twice now exactly, however both times my final solution was very cloudy...

I used two coffee filters on top of one another, and sqeezed the almost frozen liquid through, and repeated twice, getting quite a bit of white gunk the first time around but hardly anything at all the second time.

My idea is that I got all of the acetaminophen out, but cheap binders and crap from the poor quality generic pills are what have made the final solution cloudy. I'm not dead yet, nor feeling ill. What are your thoughts... did I do it right?

 

[OntarioGuy]

its cloudy cuz your squeezing it.just let it filter by itself.If you do squeez it,filter the solution again through 2 new filters without squeezing.

 

[Doktah]

alright... am I going to be alright from drinking it? I already did...

 

[amapola]

A little cloudiness won't kill you it'll just up your APAP intake a bit. Just me sure the amount of crap that you have in the filters is enough to have removed most of the apap.

If you want crystal clear use AC&C with (codeine with aspirin) which is even less soluble than APAP and forms sandy like solids in water as opposed to sludge. You have to make sure you don't get more than a gram or so of aspirin though.

I'm going to merge this in the CWE thread for you now.

 

[gregarious87]

Just did the cwe on 6 yellow 10/325, with a wet dress shirt, and coffee filter, solution a little bit yellow, but transparent.... I put 100ml of water in a pyrex measuring cup, put in freezer till a very small layer of ice started to form(where u can see it crystallizing, broke up the ice and mixed water with stirring utensil (knife), figured the water had to be right around 32-33f, added to my powder, mixed for and let sit for <1min, poured in through my wet button-up (inside a funnel), on the end of the funnel, i rubber-banded coffee filter, coffee filter in tall glass..... Estimated about approx. 75ml of water for 6 yellows, took a sip :}, added guava and about 2tsp of phenergan+codeine cough syrup (purple sweet kind) also i took about 1-2tsp of the phenergan to potentiate, about 30min before drinking said solution..... Also i took about 1000mg of vitamin-c about 1hr before anything, which always makes my m3ds last longer with more intensity......I HOPE THIS HELPS ANY OF YOU, I HAVE ALSO HEARD (NOT PERSONALLY CONFIRMED) THAT YOU CAN MIX POWDERED PILLS IN WITH ICE COLD WATER, PUT IN FREEZER, UNTIL THE TOP LAYER OF ICE FORMS, SCRAPE OFF AND EAT THE ICE (RUMORED TO CONTAIN ALL THE ACTIVE OPIOID'S, WITH WAY LESS OF THE COMBO/APAP STILL IN THE SOLUTION, WILL TRY IT NEXT, ONLY GOING TO TRY IT WITH 2, WILL POST UPDATE IN APPROX 30MIN (OR HOWEVER LONG IT TAKES TO FREEZE THE TOP LAYER... )

 

[gregarious87]

okay so just ate the ice, havn't notice anything drastically potent, only used 2 nor's inside of a shot glass, 3/4 of the way filled, but I am def. feeling the prior mixture, caught myself nodding off into a day dream.... will try again in the a.m. and see what happens

 

[amapola]

^Do you have a source on the ice theory? Or know the proposed mechanism behind it?

 

[justtesting]

A little cloudiness won't kill you it'll just up your APAP intake a bit. Just me sure the amount of crap that you have in the filters is enough to have removed most of the apap.

If you want crystal clear use AC&C with (codeine with aspirin) which is even less soluble than APAP and forms sandy like solids in water as opposed to sludge. You have to make sure you don't get more than a gram or so of aspirin though.

I'm going to merge this in the CWE thread for you now.

A good way to get crystal clear with no effort with either aspirin or APAP is to use "wick filters". The liquid travels up the wick (which rests on the inner wall of a source container tilted to at most a 75° to 80° angle) by capillary action, and then drips down into your target container. Gravity keeps the sludge from travelling up the wick, so all you get is the solution, and you never have to hassle with clogged filters, because wick filters never clog.

Seaerch bluelight or drugs-forum for "open air siphon" or "wick filter".

Enjoy!

"If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate!"

 

[Hobble]

cwe question

If I did a cwe on ten percocet 10/325's and just used cold water and ice, not a freezer, how much apap would get through?

Here is the basic proceedure:

Crush 10 perc 10/325's

A big bucket of ice ready to set everything in while it's being filtered.

A cup full of ice and water, water level with to of ice.

Put 10 crushed perc 10/325's into a glass which sits on top of the ice to keep it cold. Add 20-30ml of cold water from the cup of ice and water to the crushed percs. Let soak while still sitting on ice.

Filter solution through a piece of 600 denier pillowcase. 600 denier is a fine weave. The filtration is still sitting on the ice.

Once solution filters set up filter again, this time with a coffee filter and filter a second time through the coffe filter. Squeeze out pillowcase filter so the trapped solution drips into the coffee filter.

Solution is ready to drink.

It would be great if I could get an estimate on how much apap would get through but that might be too speculative? Alot of threads have been posted where they used a freezer to cool the water but I don't have a freezer. The ice bucket/ice water is the best I can do. So can anyone tell me if this would be as effective as the filtration methods people have described where they let the solution sit in the freezer for a while before filtering. Basicly, I think the following can be answered, would it be as, less or more effective at filtering out the acetaminophen?


I did search and read alot of cwe threads but it seems nearly everyone uses a freezer to cool things and I don't have access to a freezer.

Lastly could one do this extraction 3 or 4 times a day on the above product and amounts(perc 10/325 and not be taking too much apap? Sorry again if this is too speculative. Since this is very similar to reccomended procedures for filtering much larger apap doses involving 8 mg codiene/500 mg apap I am just hoping the procedure I outlined is good enough at filtering out apap that someone can freely give me a definative answer.

 

[amapola]

The mass of APAP getting through (assuming ideal filtration) is a function of the volume of solvent (cold water) used. A rough estimate therefore is 1g of APAP per 100ml of water. If you are using 20-30ml of water you are getting 200 to 300 milligrams of acetaminophen which is quite acceptable.

Rather than doing this procedure 3-4 times a day it would be prudent to do it once with a slightly higher volume of water if needed. For example dissolve 50 pills into 100ml of water and filter. The filtrate should contain about a gram of APAP which you can then safely consume (along with some yummy opioids) over the course of the day.

I'm going to merge this into the CWE megathread for you.