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Harm Reduction Cold Water Extraction (CWE) Mega Thread & FAQ v2.0

I have a hard time believing that you're still messing up the we badly enough to feel no effect, which makes the enzyme issue seem like a real possibility. Regardless, are you expecting the codeine buzz to be all that significant, despite the opposite being the group consensus (even many with no or little tolerance agree)?

Obviously continuing to try this is your decision, but I'd hate to be flushing all that money down the toilet, myself
 
Steady Scootin said:
I have a hard time believing that you're still messing up the we badly enough to feel no effect, which makes the enzyme issue seem like a real possibility. Regardless, are you expecting the codeine buzz to be all that significant, despite the opposite being the group consensus (even many with no or little tolerance agree)?

Obviously continuing to try this is your decision, but I'd hate to be flushing all that money down the toilet, myself
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I'm not expecting Codeine to be anything like stronger opiods, but many people say they enjoy using it anyway. No-one would bother with CWE if it didn't have some value I suppose
 
Steady Scootin said:
Most people doing a CWE aren't using the process on codeine, is the thing.
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Actually the people in the UK with otc codeine are, but a good chunk of those people use fairly high amounts too. Just remember even though codeine is a weaker opiate it has a big problem with histamine release that can swell your throat shut along with some other fun reactions.
I have to agree with Scoot though that you do seem to be having an unusually hard time with this CWE thing. It does work with ibuprofen & ASA but using a minimal amount of water with lemon juice looks to be the most successful method although titanium dioxide can color it cloudy white even if you got out nearly all the NSAID, but it's the three ingredient codeine combinations that have things like caffeine or antihistamines in them as well that will invalidate some of the good that comes from a CWE. A CWE can't separate out things like caffeine that will just make you sick anyway and ruin the benefit of high dose codeine.
 
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Forever Changes said:
That doesn't sound good. At what doses could that happen?
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You can experience a histamine reaction from a therapeutic dose (30-60mg) but SEVERE histamine reactions are usually at much higher doses. Unfortunately, it's impossible to say how bad it will be at any given dose for any given person since everyone metabolizes the drug differently. A histamine reaction that swells your throat up to the point of shutting is fairly rare, but one that makes you itch so much that you end up scratching your skin off your arms and legs much more common at higher doses.

A very simple way to avoid (or at least minimise) this is to take an anti-histamine tablet such as promethazine half an hour or so beforehand. Promethazine is sold over the counter at Boots as Sominex. There are of course many different anti-histamines, but many find that promethazine is the most effective when taken with codeine without the nasty anto-cholinagenic side effects that other 1st generation anti-histamines sometimes have
 
^ I'm actually allergic to peanuts so I have an adrenalin epipen, although I've never had to use it yet. Most of the OTC antihistamines are for hayfever type allergies rather than food allergies though but I still take them if I have a reaction to nuts

I've got an old box of Sominex somewhere so I'll take some if I notice any itching after taking codeine
 
Forever Changes said:
^ I'm actually allergic to peanuts so I have an adrenalin epipen, although I've never had to use it yet. Most of the OTC antihistamines are for hayfever type allergies rather than food allergies though but I still take them if I have a reaction to nuts

I've got an old box of Sominex somewhere so I'll take some if I notice any itching after taking codeine
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Yeah but taking it AFTER the itching starts is too late. By the time the tablet kicks in you can really suffer. I used to take codeine yesrs ago and I remember once taking about 20x30mg at once and it was absolute hell. I could have flayed my own skin off it was that bad. No amount of anti-histsmine tablets would have helped after the event.

Many people feel that promethazine potentiates the effects if codeine too (lean and szzirrup in the US is codeine and promethazine) so if I was you I'd take a single 20mg of promethazine first...maybe take 2. It will make you really tired though so make sure you're in the house and not going anywhere.
 
I just did a CWE with Codeine/Aspirin and the solution came out completely clear - it looked like pure water!

the tablets dissolved almost immediately when I dropped them in the water - they aren't supposed to be effervescent ones

but I only used 60ml water which means a maximum of around 600mg Aspirin could have got through, which is a perfectly safe dose, so that should be fine right?
 
Looks like you might have the hang of it. I'd say it sounds fine and if you get the effect you're looking for from the codeine then all the better. Just keep in mind that a little cloudiness isn't a sure sign that the CWE failed but very little leftover residue in the filter is. Glad to hear it worked out..
 
Jekyl Anhydride said:
Looks like you might have the hang of it. I'd say it sounds fine and if you get the effect you're looking for from the codeine then all the better. Just keep in mind that a little cloudiness isn't a sure sign that the CWE failed but very little leftover residue in the filter is. Glad to hear it worked out..
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I'm still not sure it will have any effects yet but thanks for the encouragement. I'll stick with the aspirin for now. It has a very different consistency to Ibuprofen

one thing I would still like to clarify: the solubility figures (eg. 1 gram APAP in 100ml water) only refer to the NSAID that dissolves in the water and not the NSAID that is suspended in the water? Is that correct?

So even if you only used 100ml water you could still get a dangerous dose of APAP doing CWE?
 
Okay,,, no matter how you go about it, less than a gram of APAP will dissolve into 100ml of water. You can drop this even a little further by cooling the water to 5*c after mixing everything at room temp first. On another note 100ml is enough water for 40+ pills. Using less water is preferable and will reduce the APAP only. After waiting the APAP that can't dissolve will be at the bottom of the container, decanting or using a large syringe or turkey baster to suck up the water above the sludge on the bottom of the cup can speed up the filter time as it lessens the load on the filter till you get to the end.

But there's no way any APAP is sneaking by whether it's in suspension, floating , hot or cold as long as it goes through a suitable filter of some sort and you have sludge afterwards.
 
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^ ah I get it. So a completely clear final solution must be safe, since it only has the dissolved amount of NSAID which is well within the safe dose.
 
When using a small amouybt of water it is VITAL that you wet the filters first or you will end up losing a large amount of the solution by capillary action across the filter paper. Wetting the filter papers first prevents this. It's not as big a deal if extracting a large amount of pills in a large amount of water for several doses, but you still need to do it..

Lots of people overlook this...

Hope that makes sense.
 
Forever Changes said:
I just did a CWE with Codeine/Aspirin and the solution came out completely clear - it looked like pure water!

the tablets dissolved almost immediately when I dropped them in the water - they aren't supposed to be effervescent ones

but I only used 60ml water which means a maximum of around 600mg Aspirin could have got through, which is a perfectly safe dose, so that should be fine right?
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Could you please let us know which brand you used?
I'm a little worried that you used soluble aspirin.

Edit: I'm not exactly sure of the mechanism that make certain brands of aspirin dissolve in water, but the only aspirin/codeine preparations I know of are intended to dissolve completely and I don't believe that CWE would effectively work on these types of tablets.

Could someone perhaps explain what makes soluble aspirin tablets soluble?
 
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This one https://www.medicines.org.uk/emc/files/pil.1582.pdf?filename=PIL.1582.pdf

it says they're supposed to be swallowed by mouth, but they were remarkably quick to dissolve in water - even fizzed a little. And it drained through the filter very quickly too. But the final solution was completely clear so none of the aspirin got through. There was some white gunk left in the filter which I threw away

as far as I can tell this and another brand 'Codis' are the only Aspirin/Codeine combos available in the UK


@Backfromthebrink

I always wet the paper or shirt now
 
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I?ve been doing CWE?s for some time now due to coming off stronger painkillers and the docs cocodamol not covering the jump well enough.

Some times I?ve picked up and my method:

One packet (32x8mg cocodamol) emptied into a glass. 100ml warm water from the tap- pleasant temp. Like an okay shower. Stir with spoon and/or place on active washing machine or dryer. An engineer friend says that vibration is best for mixing solutions rather than stirring? he vibrates a spoon in his tea when he?s making it lol.

Put each glass in a -24?c freezer for 15 mins with a small cover over them preventing too much freezing air hitting them. The sludge settles.

Double up two coffee filters from Clas Olsen. Wet them with ice cold filtered water (prevents clogging). Pour as much of the clear fluid into the glass and filter and stop when the sludge reaches edge of the freezer glass.

Mix some ice cold filtered water into the sludge. Swish it around a bit. Pour solution into second glass with another filter attached. (Not much comes out in this but it?s still got that codeine distortion in the water - the kind of thing that looks like invisible strands floating around).

I?ve done this on and off for a year now with current stretch being 2 packs of cocodamol a day for a month. I have a wonky liver - not alcohol or diet related, I don?t even drink lol because it makes me nauseous. I get regular enzyme tests because of it and my process has no negative on me. HOWEVER I used to be on 30-500 (codeine, APAP/paracetamol) I times a day and that did impact my liver.
 
Flowerpotman said:
(Not much comes out in this but it?s still got that codeine distortion in the water - the kind of thing that looks like invisible strands floating around).
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Not sure about this bit TBH... If the codeine is dissolved then it should be totally invisible.. sounds more like tiny amounts of insoluble matter that have made their way through the filter paper. The easiest way to see if this second wash has any codeine in it is to taste it since codeine is so very bitter.
 
Backfromthebrink said:
Not sure about this bit TBH... If the codeine is dissolved then it should be totally invisible.. sounds more like tiny amounts of insoluble matter that have made their way through the filter paper. The easiest way to see if this second wash has any codeine in it is to taste it since codeine is so very bitter.
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It?s hard to describe what it is. It looks like shimmering strands that float through. I?ve dissolved pure codeine phosphate and that effect is still present sooo I assume that?s the codeine. I haven?t tried dissolving plain paracetamol yet but I?m curious now. Give it a close look some time especially look at something contrasting through it. It?s like a soup of horizontal, twisty strands that just bend light around. THey have no color or form. Just visual distortions. A bit like eye floaters if you?ve ever had them.... but loads of them and without being dark.
 
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