Codeine & CWE Megathread: Version II - [insert witty title]
- Thread starter Mr Blonde
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I probably have referenced it the last time I posted it. It was on the current affairs shows and news papers at the time and some selective coxibs like celebrex were supposed to come off the market but that was sooooo long ago like maybe 8-9 years ago and they are still popular.
BrokenPromise
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I came across this OTC cough syrup called Pain Stop Night Time for Kids someone told me it's the equivalent of the stuff they have in America (Purple Drank, Lean). Has Codeine, Promethezine and Paracetamol in it. There's about 4000mg paracetamol all up so I decided to split it with a friend. We mixed it with some Sprite, tasted pretty good though we both passed out within 20mins. I always have 25-50mg of Promethazine with my CWE's but for some reason this stuff knocked me on my arse, I could barely walk and felt so sleepy. Anyone tried this stuff? The effects were a bit too overwhelming but I think in moderation this stuff would be pretty cool.
tentram
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^what was the ratios of codeine : prometh : apap /mL
you probably consumed a lot more than your usual 25-50mg of promethazine causing you to fall asleep. and it would be responsible for you being so uncoordinated and still extremely sleepy. "trippy" effects are from promethazine being an anti-chollinergic which causes delirium in large enough doses, which equals no fun at all and not in any sense recreational.
be cautious using it in the future.
thanks for sharing, though
you probably consumed a lot more than your usual 25-50mg of promethazine causing you to fall asleep. and it would be responsible for you being so uncoordinated and still extremely sleepy. "trippy" effects are from promethazine being an anti-chollinergic which causes delirium in large enough doses, which equals no fun at all and not in any sense recreational.
be cautious using it in the future.
thanks for sharing, though
Captain Brewster
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I found this:
Painstop Night-Time Syrup is a multi component pain relieving preparation. The constituents work together to relieve pain of moderate severity in children.
The maroon coloured syrup contains:
Paracetamol 120mg per 5ml
Codeine Phosphate 5mg per 5ml
Promethazine Hydrochloride 6.5mg per 5ml
It also contains Ethanol (Alcohol) 0.5ml per 5ml
The inactive ingredients are Sodium Metabisulphite, Sorbitol, Sodium Saccharin, Disodium Edetate, Imitation Toffee Flavour, Imitation Strawberry Flavour, Propylene Glycol, and Sucrose. The colouring agents are Brilliant Blue CI 42090 and Amaranth CI 16185.
Go easy on it, paracetamol is horrible shit. If you had say, 100mls thats equivelent to 2.4g of paracetamol. I wouldn't like to take that much all at once.
130mg is the dose of prometh (if you had 100mls). And 100mg codeine.
I'm predicting you had this much due to most bottles like this come in 200ml.
Prometh would have taken over ime.
Painstop Night-Time Syrup is a multi component pain relieving preparation. The constituents work together to relieve pain of moderate severity in children.
The maroon coloured syrup contains:
Paracetamol 120mg per 5ml
Codeine Phosphate 5mg per 5ml
Promethazine Hydrochloride 6.5mg per 5ml
It also contains Ethanol (Alcohol) 0.5ml per 5ml
The inactive ingredients are Sodium Metabisulphite, Sorbitol, Sodium Saccharin, Disodium Edetate, Imitation Toffee Flavour, Imitation Strawberry Flavour, Propylene Glycol, and Sucrose. The colouring agents are Brilliant Blue CI 42090 and Amaranth CI 16185.
Go easy on it, paracetamol is horrible shit. If you had say, 100mls thats equivelent to 2.4g of paracetamol. I wouldn't like to take that much all at once.
130mg is the dose of prometh (if you had 100mls). And 100mg codeine.
I'm predicting you had this much due to most bottles like this come in 200ml.
Prometh would have taken over ime.
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Just from a pharmacy unit I did a couple years ago I would definately be using paracetamol instead of ibuprofen mixed codeine tablets. This is mostly off the top of my head and ive forgotten the actual chemicals and specifics but the core principles from the lectures are there.
I was told paracetamol was more or less completely harmless until overdose where it would cause liver failure. Paracetamol is processed by an enzyme in the liver, but when this enzyme is saturated a toxic product is formed that drains the livers antioxidant stores and leads to acute liver damage. Until that happens theres no damage being done though from what we were told. Liver disease, alcohol and other drugs that use the same liver enzymes also lower the lethal dose of paracetamol.
In a healthy person the lethal dose is around 15-20g and people reguarly survive one off doses at those levels, as told by our lecturer. Obviously using day to day, using other drugs(potentially, alcohol is the worst common one), and losing liver function will drastically lower the amount needed to send you into liver failure.
N-acetylcysteine is the bodies precursor to the antioxidant that is drained and protects the liver against such acute damage. It is used extensively in emergency poisonings involving the liver. Its sold as a nutrition supplement so if your worried about your use I guess you can take that daily with your codeine.
I have read that paracetamol itself can be addictive and lead to withdrawals mostly consisting of headaches.
Ibuprofen is pretty unsafe for long term usage even at lower doses in comparison.
I was told paracetamol was more or less completely harmless until overdose where it would cause liver failure. Paracetamol is processed by an enzyme in the liver, but when this enzyme is saturated a toxic product is formed that drains the livers antioxidant stores and leads to acute liver damage. Until that happens theres no damage being done though from what we were told. Liver disease, alcohol and other drugs that use the same liver enzymes also lower the lethal dose of paracetamol.
In a healthy person the lethal dose is around 15-20g and people reguarly survive one off doses at those levels, as told by our lecturer. Obviously using day to day, using other drugs(potentially, alcohol is the worst common one), and losing liver function will drastically lower the amount needed to send you into liver failure.
N-acetylcysteine is the bodies precursor to the antioxidant that is drained and protects the liver against such acute damage. It is used extensively in emergency poisonings involving the liver. Its sold as a nutrition supplement so if your worried about your use I guess you can take that daily with your codeine.
I have read that paracetamol itself can be addictive and lead to withdrawals mostly consisting of headaches.
Ibuprofen is pretty unsafe for long term usage even at lower doses in comparison.
junkie skumbag
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No worries old mate.
What brand of ibuprofen/codeine are you using? I always use Panafen Plus, as they dissolve very easily (i.e. you don't have to crush/grind the tablets prior to adding water), I usually just throw them in a water bottle, 100mL of cold water, pop the lid on and shake vigorously and they're all dissolved in about 5 minutes. If you add an ice cube or two it helps them dissolve quicker when shaking, for obvious reasons.
I always filter my solution very carefully, and you're right, with the ibuprofen/codeine preparations after filtering the solution is almost always cloudy. However, this is unlikely to be ibuprofen in the solution, but other inactive insolubles contained within the tablet such as binders and fillers, unless of course you used an excessive amount of water or a poor filter that failed to catch the undissolved solids. Also, ibuprofen is significantly less soluble in cold water than paracetamol, so it is safer by definition. Not to mention it is no where near as hepatoxic as paracetamol, ibuprofen is just really rough on the stomach. So if you do somehow manage to botch an extraction of ibuprofen based tablets, though I really don't understand how you could, after all it's not rocket science, then the ibuprofen is going to be far less damaging to your body.
Also, don't get me wrong, I am not suggesting extracting a safe dose of codeine from a preparation containing an unsafe amount of paracetamol or ibuprofen is safe at all. This is why it is important to understand how the process actually works, don't rush it and pay attention to what you are doing - then you can greatly minimize the risk of a dangerous outcome.
Ash.
i haven't used them in so long i think i was using nerofin plus?now i use panadine extra they dissolve fast filter ok and make clean cwe's.back when i used nerofin plus i wouldn't drink it due to its milkiness i thought i fucked up the extraction until it happened again.was too milky for me to drink i just chucked em out dont wanna risk it.pretty sure i have a stomach ulcer don't wanna risk making it worse
![:\](https://bluelight.org/xf/BL_Images/Orig_Emoji/wrygrin.gif "wry grin :\")
i dissolve all my pills in a cup with minimal water (about 2ml per pill) let them sit until all dissolved place in my freezer prep 2 filters in a big glass and make sure the filters are not touching.after 15mins in a strong freezer (almost near freezing point) i pour the water out into the filters and place that glass in a fridge to filter.then i put 20ml of luke warm water into the white gunk left over stir\ it around and put it in the freezer for another 15mins and filter off sometimes i do it a 3rd time with 10ml of water but not often.after the filters slow down i get another 2 filters and wrap them around the filter with the white gunk then gently squeeze all 4 filters into the 5th filter remaining in the glass then i filter off the final solution with a fresh filter just to be sure
Standup
I kind of disagree but I still want to back up the bulk of your post and thank you for making the points about NSAIDs. I think we tend towards the idea that para is more toxic than ibu because when you look at the back of the packet and maybe see an advertisement or news article about these drugs that I think lead us in general to think along the lines of:
Paracetamol is very liver toxic but mild on the gut and watch out because lots of people die from OD on it.
Ibuprophen is not a full on lethal liver toxin but it’s really bad for your gut (ulcers) and maybe it fucks your kidneys.
But this is such a distorted view but unnecessarily so because there is no shortage of information about these drugs….edit: if only the doctors and shapers of public opinion would bother to read them.
NSAIDs have tragically lethal consequences like stroke and heart attack, plus all the potential disease caused merely from the primary action of the drug i.e. blocking cyclo-oxigenase enzyme (COX) thereby blocking the Arachidonic Acid cascade...which provides for the anti-inflammatory action of NSAIDs (sounds good?) until you read a little further and understand how nasty things will become for your whole body if you force it to exist without the COX enzyme....by taking a dose of NSAID (ibuprofen) daily your body is forced to exist without a significant part od its biochemistry and yeah....heaps of people died and still die and big-pharma corps were sued......then it was supposed to be banned/recalled but they changed their minds and just told doctors to be careful?? how they prescribe it or someshit about there not being any other alternatives so we simply can't ban it OR was it that CELEBREX IS STILL ON PATENT UNTILL 2014 (roughly) so banning it and missing out on several long years of owning a license to print money was simply unthinkable....
But in term of if a mistake should happen and you cop a lethal dose, which was actually as low as 10g or 20 X 500mg tablets for adults. Here's what the wiki page says.
From wikipedia:
A toxic dose of paracetamol usually varies between 4 g in special populations and 6 g in the average person. The lethal dose is usually between 10 g and 15 g, however concurrent alcohol intake will lower that figure significantly. When a toxic dose is ingested, the sheer quantity of the drug saturates the normal glucuronide pathway, causing large amounts of NAPQI to be produced. Some of this is conjugated with glutathione, but eventually the glutathione reserves in the liver are depleted. This leaves only NAPQI, which in these large quantities kills liver cells very effectively.
So it's not hard to see why so many people die each year from paracetamol poisoning in Australia. Here's the relevant paragraph from wikipedia for y'all
In England and Wales an estimated 41,200 cases of paracetamol poisoning occurred in 1989 to 1990, with a mortality of 0.40%. It is estimated that 150 to 200 deaths and 15 to 20 liver transplants occur as a result of poisoning each year in England and Wales.[61] Paracetamol overdose results in more calls to poison control centers in the US than overdose of any other pharmacological substance, accounting for more than 100,000 calls, as well as 56,000 emergency room visits, 2,600 hospitalizations, and 458 deaths due to acute liver failure per year.[76] A study of cases of acute liver failure between November 2000 and October 2004 by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in the USA found that paracetamol was the cause of 41% of all cases in adults, and 25% of cases in children.
So the fact that one mistake with paracetamol could easily be lethal makes it impossible for me to recommend it to anyone but of course when we look at the longer term toxicity of NSAIDs we see there's nothing acceptable about taking Ibuprofen either because it causes it's lethal effects even when taken at the recommended dose.
So trying to be open minded and remembering that the two party system of ibu versus para is an illusion and there is a third party that exists called the Both drugs are probably a bad idea – party….I think we then realise that CWE is not a source of safe and clean opiate. It comes with some bullshit that’s so toxic it changes the overall toxicity of the yummy cup-o-CWE.
What’s needed is a method to reliably extract pure cody phos ….I bet there’s a method that can be adapted.
Really, it should be available to anyone who explains to their doctor that they want it for mental health reasons OR we could I suppose continue to demand that creating an artificial opiate shortage via The War On Some Drugs is the best way to protect people from the potential dangers of an artificial opiate shortage.
I kind of disagree but I still want to back up the bulk of your post and thank you for making the points about NSAIDs. I think we tend towards the idea that para is more toxic than ibu because when you look at the back of the packet and maybe see an advertisement or news article about these drugs that I think lead us in general to think along the lines of:
Paracetamol is very liver toxic but mild on the gut and watch out because lots of people die from OD on it.
Ibuprophen is not a full on lethal liver toxin but it’s really bad for your gut (ulcers) and maybe it fucks your kidneys.
But this is such a distorted view but unnecessarily so because there is no shortage of information about these drugs….edit: if only the doctors and shapers of public opinion would bother to read them.
NSAIDs have tragically lethal consequences like stroke and heart attack, plus all the potential disease caused merely from the primary action of the drug i.e. blocking cyclo-oxigenase enzyme (COX) thereby blocking the Arachidonic Acid cascade...which provides for the anti-inflammatory action of NSAIDs (sounds good?) until you read a little further and understand how nasty things will become for your whole body if you force it to exist without the COX enzyme....by taking a dose of NSAID (ibuprofen) daily your body is forced to exist without a significant part od its biochemistry and yeah....heaps of people died and still die and big-pharma corps were sued......then it was supposed to be banned/recalled but they changed their minds and just told doctors to be careful?? how they prescribe it or someshit about there not being any other alternatives so we simply can't ban it OR was it that CELEBREX IS STILL ON PATENT UNTILL 2014 (roughly) so banning it and missing out on several long years of owning a license to print money was simply unthinkable....
But in term of if a mistake should happen and you cop a lethal dose, which was actually as low as 10g or 20 X 500mg tablets for adults. Here's what the wiki page says.
From wikipedia:
A toxic dose of paracetamol usually varies between 4 g in special populations and 6 g in the average person. The lethal dose is usually between 10 g and 15 g, however concurrent alcohol intake will lower that figure significantly. When a toxic dose is ingested, the sheer quantity of the drug saturates the normal glucuronide pathway, causing large amounts of NAPQI to be produced. Some of this is conjugated with glutathione, but eventually the glutathione reserves in the liver are depleted. This leaves only NAPQI, which in these large quantities kills liver cells very effectively.
So it's not hard to see why so many people die each year from paracetamol poisoning in Australia. Here's the relevant paragraph from wikipedia for y'all
In England and Wales an estimated 41,200 cases of paracetamol poisoning occurred in 1989 to 1990, with a mortality of 0.40%. It is estimated that 150 to 200 deaths and 15 to 20 liver transplants occur as a result of poisoning each year in England and Wales.[61] Paracetamol overdose results in more calls to poison control centers in the US than overdose of any other pharmacological substance, accounting for more than 100,000 calls, as well as 56,000 emergency room visits, 2,600 hospitalizations, and 458 deaths due to acute liver failure per year.[76] A study of cases of acute liver failure between November 2000 and October 2004 by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in the USA found that paracetamol was the cause of 41% of all cases in adults, and 25% of cases in children.
So the fact that one mistake with paracetamol could easily be lethal makes it impossible for me to recommend it to anyone but of course when we look at the longer term toxicity of NSAIDs we see there's nothing acceptable about taking Ibuprofen either because it causes it's lethal effects even when taken at the recommended dose.
So trying to be open minded and remembering that the two party system of ibu versus para is an illusion and there is a third party that exists called the Both drugs are probably a bad idea – party….I think we then realise that CWE is not a source of safe and clean opiate. It comes with some bullshit that’s so toxic it changes the overall toxicity of the yummy cup-o-CWE.
What’s needed is a method to reliably extract pure cody phos ….I bet there’s a method that can be adapted.
Really, it should be available to anyone who explains to their doctor that they want it for mental health reasons OR we could I suppose continue to demand that creating an artificial opiate shortage via The War On Some Drugs is the best way to protect people from the potential dangers of an artificial opiate shortage.
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Edit: speaking out my ass a lil
From drugbank.ca APAP has 14mg/ml solubility and codeine 9mg/ml. A perfect CWE with 100ml of water should get 900mg codeine and 1.4g paracetamol. With good proceedure you should be able to get 500mg codeine and around 3g paracetamol.
If you have liver issues or drinking issues maybe ibuprofen may be neccessary but I think the liver toxicity damage that APAP can cause is blown a little bit out of proportion because it is the number 1 drug people take to OD. Before you saturate the liver with APAP it isnt doing any damage at all while ibuprofen is toxic at all doses (relative to the amount you have). Have people had issues with CWE's and liver toxicity? Once you start pushing 1000mg codeine doses it definately starts getting more boarderline but ibuprofen would definately be doing some damage too, especially if your not really refining your CWE technique. Perhaps alternating between paracetamol and ibuprofen mixes might be better? N-acetylcysteine could play an important role in minimising CWE damage from paracetamol too.
From drugbank.ca APAP has 14mg/ml solubility and codeine 9mg/ml. A perfect CWE with 100ml of water should get 900mg codeine and 1.4g paracetamol. With good proceedure you should be able to get 500mg codeine and around 3g paracetamol.
If you have liver issues or drinking issues maybe ibuprofen may be neccessary but I think the liver toxicity damage that APAP can cause is blown a little bit out of proportion because it is the number 1 drug people take to OD. Before you saturate the liver with APAP it isnt doing any damage at all while ibuprofen is toxic at all doses (relative to the amount you have). Have people had issues with CWE's and liver toxicity? Once you start pushing 1000mg codeine doses it definately starts getting more boarderline but ibuprofen would definately be doing some damage too, especially if your not really refining your CWE technique. Perhaps alternating between paracetamol and ibuprofen mixes might be better? N-acetylcysteine could play an important role in minimising CWE damage from paracetamol too.
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BrokenPromise
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These things might have already been discussed but...
1. If you continue to go to the same chemist once a week to get a box of Codeine will they eventually refuse you?
2. Also is it possible to turn the filtered Codeine back into solid form? Is it very hard to do?
On a completely unrelated note, I remember coming on here a couple years back and trying a dozen CWE's and literally felt nothing. I even tried 1g of Codeine with no tolerance and all I felt was a nasty itch. Now I'm in love with the stuff. I've completely gone off alcohol and MDMA (lost the magic). 400mg at a party and I'm on cloud 9, don't know what happened but I'm glad it did.
1. If you continue to go to the same chemist once a week to get a box of Codeine will they eventually refuse you?
2. Also is it possible to turn the filtered Codeine back into solid form? Is it very hard to do?
On a completely unrelated note, I remember coming on here a couple years back and trying a dozen CWE's and literally felt nothing. I even tried 1g of Codeine with no tolerance and all I felt was a nasty itch. Now I'm in love with the stuff. I've completely gone off alcohol and MDMA (lost the magic). 400mg at a party and I'm on cloud 9, don't know what happened but I'm glad it did.
Sustanon
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1. Of course if u visit too frequently they can simply refuse u. There are so many pharmacies around here (50+) within 15 mins of me. After a while they become to know u. I always say I have chronic back pain from gym and the doctor had me on endone and pandeine forte but I wanted something weaker so the doc suggested (insert favorite brand here
2. Its possible by evaporating the liquid but remember codeine can break down in heat and light. It is possible but not worth the hassle IMO. Itll kick in faster in a solution anyways which is what u want with CWE's. Enjoy the first few codeine highs as there will be a time when u will be wishing u could feel like that again. Maybe consider keeping tolerance at bay so u dont end up using huge quantities and lose the magic. Good luck
2. Its possible by evaporating the liquid but remember codeine can break down in heat and light. It is possible but not worth the hassle IMO. Itll kick in faster in a solution anyways which is what u want with CWE's. Enjoy the first few codeine highs as there will be a time when u will be wishing u could feel like that again. Maybe consider keeping tolerance at bay so u dont end up using huge quantities and lose the magic. Good luck
pinkanga
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I need at least 600 + to make it a worthy "opiate session" ... but I still find 30 pan+ CWE has value as a relaxation tool for an hour or so while watching TV or gaming. Slight placebo potential maybe, and Ill admit that just knowing Ive had the 360mg codeine is anxiety reducing, but so what eh? Its a cheap relatively harmless (I have the techniques down now that it takes fuck all time, and if I want an essentially crystal clear solution I can get it) and relaxing/enjoyable activity. There are down sides (eg. testosterone etc) and I admit Im addicted, but its manageable. 300-400mg per day is manageable withdrawal, while not pleasant, is not as scary as it could be from a higher daily dose requirement.
Fortunately I dont have regular/easy access to oxy or anything harder than codeine. I cant be sure thing would be as simple as they are now
Fortunately I dont have regular/easy access to oxy or anything harder than codeine. I cant be sure thing would be as simple as they are now
BrokenPromise
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I don't know why but my tolerance never really builds, I've easily purchased over 40 boxes of Codeine in the past 12 months and 400mg has always given me a nice buzz. Same with Valium, I was prescribed 15mg everyday for 2 years and never needed to increase my dose.
40 x 400mg codeine doses per year is not anywhere near enough to develop a tolerance when you consider that is less than one dose per week.
you need to be taking several doses per week for a significant tolerance to develop.
edit:
but valium is quite different in the sense that a single dose will stay active in your system for the best part of a week so tolerance develops with less regular use, the fact the you're taking a sensible dose helps as well i.e. you don't finish the bottle in a day or two, i reckon big valium doses last for sooo long you can get a habit from doing it once a week for a few months.
edit: congrats on keeping to one dose per week, i can imagine doing that would make your weekly dose a lot more special and enjoyable.
you need to be taking several doses per week for a significant tolerance to develop.
edit:
but valium is quite different in the sense that a single dose will stay active in your system for the best part of a week so tolerance develops with less regular use, the fact the you're taking a sensible dose helps as well i.e. you don't finish the bottle in a day or two, i reckon big valium doses last for sooo long you can get a habit from doing it once a week for a few months.
edit: congrats on keeping to one dose per week, i can imagine doing that would make your weekly dose a lot more special and enjoyable.
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BrokenPromise
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Well it's rarely ever one dose a week, all of my friends know I get Valium so when they ask me for some it's hard to turn them down (probably due to the fact on Valium I become a lot more generous and don't think of the consequences of running out). So there's usually a week or two each month where I'm without any Valium and that's when I start using Codeine. On my last 100mg now
Stevenski
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I limit my dosing these days to once or twice a fortnight & as I have a script for one 5mg per day it is sustainable long term. One thing I have noticed is that if I have say 40-50mg a day for 2-3 days straight I end up having bad panic attacks (where I have no anxiety normally) on day 7-8 after. The attack/s last for 1-4 hours & I don't treat them with valium choosing to ride it out. I have been down that particular road & no good comes from it
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