Stimulants Claims regarding meth and n-iso: prevalence, detection, cleaning.

[yoyoman]

I recently got two bags of meth off the dark web, about a week apart.

First bag, was mega clean. Had a lot of euphoria, and heart rate barely elevated if at all. Calm. Loved it, although it also seemed too relaxing in a weird way.

Second bag, they just sent me a big “shard” but it’s one of those ones that feels like it’s almost wet, EASILY crushed the entire thigh with my fingers pushing lightly. This texture is typical of a lot of meth these days. The high is high body load and anxiety, heart rate 130 not high enough where I wanted to be, disproportionately anxious so harder to enjoy.

The first better bag was good just for the lack of edgy body side effects. But it also seemed to not last that long so I don’t think it was 100% pure d-meth. Maybe 40-60% but I do not know, am only guessing based on how fast I used the bag up and the size of the oral doses.

I have had much pure meth that needed only 20mg oral to get very spun calmly for 6 hours. The first clean bag I needed more like 50.

—————-

Maybe the testing at the DEA is only a small subset of what’re out there, and maybe it’s the more local dealers cutting it up? I saw a documentary (can’t remember if it was vice or maybe nat geo) where they showed these guys mixing up meth in giant containers but it did not look like they were doing chemistry. Sounded like they were doing something simple.

Also, some batches don’t have as much levo filtered out.. which would help explain the more side effects from some meth. Whatever they’re using to try and bulk it up, usually looks like frail shards, when broken all the smaller pieces are also weak. Not hard crystal.

 

[unodelacosa]

I recently got two bags of meth off the dark web, about a week apart.

First bag, was mega clean. Had a lot of euphoria, and heart rate barely elevated if at all. Calm. Loved it, although it also seemed too relaxing in a weird way.

Idk, hard to say. Sounds like it was pretty good gear.

Second bag, they just sent me a big “shard” but it’s one of those ones that feels like it’s almost wet, EASILY crushed the entire thigh with my fingers pushing lightly.

Yeah I think there's moisture suspended in the crystal structure, but I can only guess at why that is.

This texture is typical of a lot of meth these days.

I know, right? It's unfortunate.

The high is high body load and anxiety, heart rate 130 not high enough where I wanted to be, disproportionately anxious so harder to enjoy.

Just a reminder… tachycardia is bad for your heart.

The first better bag was good just for the lack of edgy body side effects. But it also seemed to not last that long so I don’t think it was 100% pure d-meth. Maybe 40-60% but I do not know, am only guessing based on how fast I used the bag up and the size of the oral doses.

I have had much pure meth that needed only 20mg oral to get very spun calmly for 6 hours. The first clean bag I needed more like 50.

Where's your tolerance though?

Maybe the testing at the DEA is only a small subset of what’re out there, and maybe it’s the more local dealers cutting it up?

¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Could be.

I saw a documentary (can’t remember if it was vice or maybe nat geo) where they showed these guys mixing up meth in giant containers but it did not look like they were doing chemistry. Sounded like they were doing something simple.

Lol, kitchen chemistry. You ever see that Hamilton's Pharmacopeia episode where he's observing a predictably dangerous attempt to manufacture meth in some rural clandestine lab setup by a couple drug-addled amateurs? If that's the "local scene cooks", then… fuckin'… yikes is all I have to say.

Also, some batches don’t have as much levo filtered out.. which would help explain the more side effects from some meth. Whatever they’re using to try and bulk it up, usually looks like frail shards, when broken all the smaller pieces are also weak. Not hard crystal.

Yeah, to me, it's a pretty decent guess that levo is washed out progressively each time a racemic batch is separated and resolved. Three or four iterations of this will significantly increase the yield and mitigate stereoselective loss.

As I understand it, the levo-isomer, while not active in the central nervous system, is active in the peripheral nervous system; hence its use as a bronchodilator. I feel like this could account for the added body load / anxiety, and would also explain why the shards crumble so readily – the two isomers do not geometrical conform with one another to form tight, hard crystals.

Personally I like to do what I call the clink test. Really good, clean gear, will clink together in a bag like coins. Or try dropping it from about a half foot (15 cm) above the kitchen counter or a hard table. Should clink like coins. If it clacks like plastic, it's typically a sign that it's cut, though this is not 100% ironclad guaranteed. I still think it's a decent field test though; hope it helps.

 

[unodelacosa]

@yoyoman I suppose if someone were so inclined, they could resolve the pure isomer with d-tartaric acid, exploiting dl-methamphetamine's isomeric differences in chiral solubility in order to separate the isomers. After that, maybe just discard the unwanted levo-isomer… I mean, cartel meth is 1. virtually unavoidable unfortunately and 2. dirt cheap right now. Makes me think: fuck resolving that shit – converting all the levo into a new 50/50 racemate, to be separated again, ad infinitum – but it depends on how much gear we're talking about… personal amounts, yeah fuck that shit. Distributor quantities… maybe look into bulk tartaric acid procurement, lol

 

[yoyoman]

Also… this is new for me with meth. Both of these batches (even the one I thought was good enough because it was clean, prob not pure cuz doses higher than Desoxyn) but every time I vape it for sort of a binge, technically not THAT much, my throat is now burning and can’t talk properly a day - 2 days after. It’s a delayed effect.

I don’t remember this ever happening before with more vaping, never had any irritation. Even my mouth starts feeling odd 2 days later. (Not continuous vaping just like one day of it).

—————-

So.. now I am curious if those weird new bubbler pipes they have I heard people talk about may somehow clean it up. If the “meth” is acetic maybe bubbling it thru sodium bicarb could help) If I can find my ph strips maybe I’ll dissolve a little and see what the ph of the water is. Maybe there’s a lot of unidentified leftover synth crap all over it now.

—
Ugh I really dig using clean meth to help me focus or occasionally have fun there’s got to be some way to fix this problem, make a tech for it. I wonder if levoamphetamine is more or less soluble in water or other things vs dextro. Anyone know where to find out that info? I tried looking on google. Like I wonder if d and l isomers would crash out of solution faster than the other. I’ve heard of the tartaric acid stuff, I have no idea how cheap or easy that is but I’m going to read about it.

The difference between clean and the crap is night and day. Although, I do see the jittery 150 hr rate stuff does have more of a “wide fuckin awake” but it’s basically a panic attack. Even made my hands all shaky. The smooth stuff has those dopamine chills, 60bpm heart, BP felt normal, extra perv dopamine stuff etc

—
What would be nice to figure out is a step by step way to filter any typical meth into somewhat pure dextro, while filtering out whatever junk they add. I wish the cartels would realize they could charge more to give it to us clean. I heard a person say they were doing water recrystallization and just hand picking the certain appearance xtals.

 

[yoyoman]

Wow Erowid has a whole page on how to separate isomers for amps and meth. It seems easy, like way easier than extracting DMT. Gonna have to do some research….

D-tartaric acid is cheap, I would assume something like that isn’t controlled but I could be wrong. If it’s as easy as the erowid page looks, and so many people continue to be unhappy with the state of meth nowadays.. maybe a few people can try it, and explain it so anyone can know how to do it.

There might still be other shit in there though that could interfere but I’m intrigued by this idea. Pure d isomer is a magical medicinal compound there’s no reason people need to be taking in all the extra toxicity.

Over the years (I don’t do meth often just occasionally with years break between) I’ve always noticed weird variations, like something is always a little different as the trends change.

Back around 2010-11 I found this expensive but seemingly clean and pure stuff but noticed at night it made my night vision terrible. But i was able to compare it directly to a lucky gram I got from a nice chemist that was 99+% pure d isomer. The pure did not alter my ability to see at night so maybe there’s a lot of trace amounts of toxic substances in street meth.

…. Maybe a work up with the d tartaric acid stuff would also be able to clean out some of the other stuff. If it’s easy to do I’d love to know how it works with todays stuff.

 

[lilccxx]

HOW TO SEPARATE METH FROM N-ISO;
-
Materials Needed:
- round bottom flask, or tall wineglass(need plastic wrap or something to seal to cover)
- 91% Isopropyl Alcohol (other concentrations will work but take longer)
- microwave
- freezer(optional)
*Roughly 1g of crystal can be dissolved into (each) 1 ml of isopropyl alcohol [IPA]Borh meth and iso are very soluble in this alcohol so it won’t take much, especially when using it hot. *
- Take alleged meth and pulverize into smaller workable size pieces or powder.
- Heat up alcohol in the microwave till it boils, and continue for a second or two. A good trick is to change the power level setting on a microwave to 7 or 6. It’s that setting it will allow small intervals of rest in between soft boils
- Once you have your Alcohol piping hot, drip it into your flask or glass containing product. Stir thoroughly until all is dissolved and solution becomes saturated Completely. Swiftly place it back in the microwave on you’re lowered setting again boiling softly just for a few more seconds
* (It can only help to keep it partially covered or vented during this process to prevent open-air contamination. More often than not, the air we breathe can ruin a batch of crystal during recrystallization. Ideal environment inert atmosphere or none at all)
- Before you Remove the vessel from the microwave make an observation to see if there is a formation of a white crust or crystals around the inside of the glass. Accompanied by formation of crystals in the pool of liquid. This will occur almost simultaneously, And quickly so be attentive.
-If both are observed, seal the vessel to promote faster and more sound crystal growth (On the contrary, If none are present continue to heat until You see them precipitate)
*(If one is too impatient and/or sets the microwave too high(or heats too long) it will force Crystallize incorporating all the impurities of the air in it. When most people try to re-crystallize. This is why a cover is essential in this procedure when using a wine glass. It doesn’t have to be airtight ironically But it doesn’t hurt)*
-The Individual using round bottom flask does not need to stopper it. In fact any vessel or glass that is tapered down as it rises would be efficient in this process. It just needs to be able to contain the vapors in the atmosphere above the solvent. Vapors of alcohol are generally more dense than air and will hug the ground or sink.
*Swirling or stirring is NOT necessary in fact It will actually retard the process. Remember the idea is to promote Seperation and encourage Crystal growth *
When the proper measures are observed and taken this procedure is done quite easily. In addition, the effectiveness of the separation is quite remarkable for its simplicity.
As the solvent cools and begins to evaporate, Crystals will bind with each other forming groups. What’s being exploited is Meth’s affinity for water, and isopropylbenzlamine solubility in isopropyl alcohol. The mechanism is not fully being explained, but the fundamental idea behind crystallization it’s been capitalized on.
The result is a pool containing Broad, needlelike crystals stacked in the figure of a teepee. This “teepee” is submerged in the Alcohol/Solvent called the mother liquor. It’s composition is water solvent impurities and of course, crystals.
The significant factor here is that IPA and water form What is Called in azeotrope. Simply put it is combination of liquids that evaporate at the same speed. Upon evaporation these two different compounds crash out of the vapor in two different fashions because they’re not the same chemical. One goes to the alcohol the other stays lingering above it and gets stuck to the glass. All the contaminants, cut and everything that’s not a crystal stays in the mother liquor. It will produce until the ratio is no longer in favor of making crystal formations.
Lastly one would take a blade or cut straw and separate the crystals mechanically. It’s a crude procedure, but not too difficult to complete. The little crystals around the inside of the glass are methamphetamine. The wet ones in the bottom which are still sitting in mother liquor are iso. A cut straw or a spoon is best for scooping the dryer crystals around the rim onto a separate saucer. Left out with a paper towel or similar covering it loosely, the meth will dry best at room temperature because it is a Hydrochloride salt. They do not need to be washed with acetone, heated or manipulated in anyway. Isopropylbenzlamine can be taken out of the liquid and dried as well however its uses are quite limited obviously
It works y’all. I’ve been testing it out for the past few months and this Method is full proof and works every time.

 

[Sheeno101]

HOW TO SEPARATE METH FROM N-ISO;
-
Materials Needed:
- round bottom flask, or tall wineglass(need plastic wrap or something to seal to cover)
- 91% Isopropyl Alcohol (other concentrations will work but take longer)
- microwave
- freezer(optional)
*Roughly 1g of crystal can be dissolved into (each) 1 ml of isopropyl alcohol [IPA]Borh meth and iso are very soluble in this alcohol so it won’t take much, especially when using it hot. *
- Take alleged meth and pulverize into smaller workable size pieces or powder.
- Heat up alcohol in the microwave till it boils, and continue for a second or two. A good trick is to change the power level setting on a microwave to 7 or 6. It’s that setting it will allow small intervals of rest in between soft boils
- Once you have your Alcohol piping hot, drip it into your flask or glass containing product. Stir thoroughly until all is dissolved and solution becomes saturated Completely. Swiftly place it back in the microwave on you’re lowered setting again boiling softly just for a few more seconds
* (It can only help to keep it partially covered or vented during this process to prevent open-air contamination. More often than not, the air we breathe can ruin a batch of crystal during recrystallization. Ideal environment inert atmosphere or none at all)
- Before you Remove the vessel from the microwave make an observation to see if there is a formation of a white crust or crystals around the inside of the glass. Accompanied by formation of crystals in the pool of liquid. This will occur almost simultaneously, And quickly so be attentive.
-If both are observed, seal the vessel to promote faster and more sound crystal growth (On the contrary, If none are present continue to heat until You see them precipitate)
*(If one is too impatient and/or sets the microwave too high(or heats too long) it will force Crystallize incorporating all the impurities of the air in it. When most people try to re-crystallize. This is why a cover is essential in this procedure when using a wine glass. It doesn’t have to be airtight ironically But it doesn’t hurt)*
-The Individual using round bottom flask does not need to stopper it. In fact any vessel or glass that is tapered down as it rises would be efficient in this process. It just needs to be able to contain the vapors in the atmosphere above the solvent. Vapors of alcohol are generally more dense than air and will hug the ground or sink.
*Swirling or stirring is NOT necessary in fact It will actually retard the process. Remember the idea is to promote Seperation and encourage Crystal growth *
When the proper measures are observed and taken this procedure is done quite easily. In addition, the effectiveness of the separation is quite remarkable for its simplicity.
As the solvent cools and begins to evaporate, Crystals will bind with each other forming groups. What’s being exploited is Meth’s affinity for water, and isopropylbenzlamine solubility in isopropyl alcohol. The mechanism is not fully being explained, but the fundamental idea behind crystallization it’s been capitalized on.
The result is a pool containing Broad, needlelike crystals stacked in the figure of a teepee. This “teepee” is submerged in the Alcohol/Solvent called the mother liquor. It’s composition is water solvent impurities and of course, crystals.
The significant factor here is that IPA and water form What is Called in azeotrope. Simply put it is combination of liquids that evaporate at the same speed. Upon evaporation these two different compounds crash out of the vapor in two different fashions because they’re not the same chemical. One goes to the alcohol the other stays lingering above it and gets stuck to the glass. All the contaminants, cut and everything that’s not a crystal stays in the mother liquor. It will produce until the ratio is no longer in favor of making crystal formations.
Lastly one would take a blade or cut straw and separate the crystals mechanically. It’s a crude procedure, but not too difficult to complete. The little crystals around the inside of the glass are methamphetamine. The wet ones in the bottom which are still sitting in mother liquor are iso. A cut straw or a spoon is best for scooping the dryer crystals around the rim onto a separate saucer. Left out with a paper towel or similar covering it loosely, the meth will dry best at room temperature because it is a Hydrochloride salt. They do not need to be washed with acetone, heated or manipulated in anyway. Isopropylbenzlamine can be taken out of the liquid and dried as well however its uses are quite limited obviously
It works y’all. I’ve been testing it out for the past few months and this Method is full proof and works every time.

Hi, sorry to bump this, but I'd be interested to know others' experiences of or understanding around doing this - either anecdotal regarding the improvements (or lack thereof) in their meth's effects, or on the chemistry side of things - whether there could be any benefit to this or if the process could be improved at all. I don't think there's any point in having a debate about the existence of n-iso, but rather the operative issue is if this procedure may be removing any contaminants (whatever they may be) currently in a lot of meth. There are a few positive anecdotal experiences on the original reddit thread, but I'd really value the insight of BLers. Thanks

 

[AlysAmanita]

Regarding isomer separation:



https://www.unodc.org/res/wdr2021/field/WDR21_Booklet_4.pdf page 54:

Shifts in manufacture of methamphetamine have continued in North America

Improved precursor control (including with the Chemical Diversion and Trafficking Act of 1988, the Domestic Chemical Diversion and Control Act of 1993 and in particular the Combat Methamphetamine Epidemic Act of 2005) regulating over-the-counter sales of methamphetamine precursor chemicals such as ephedrine preparations and pseudoephedrine, and ongoing efforts to dismantle laboratories seem to have acted as a deterrent to large-scale domestic methamphetamine manufacture in the United States over the last 15 years. This approach seemed to have worked well initially, as domestic groups involved in methamphetamine manufacture in the United States (largely dominated by motorcycle gangs at the time) had limited chemical skills and were not in a position to seek alternative methods of manufacture, helping to reduce the domestic market for methamphetamine in the first decade of the new millennium. Annual prevalence of methamphetamine use fell from 0.7 per cent of the population aged 12 and older in 2002 to 0.3 per cent in 2008.5 Nonetheless, since 2010, the decrease in the domestic manufacture of methamphetamine in the United States has been more than offset by increasing imports of the drug from Mexico. A number of indicators have pointed to an expansion of the methamphetamine market within the United States, both in terms of supply of (sharply rising amounts seized and falling purity-adjusted prices) and demand for (rising prevalence of use, positive tests among the general workforce, treatment admissions and deaths) the drug.


The introduction of similar legislation in Mexico in 2008 to prevent over-the-counter sales and the diversion of ephedrine preparations and pseudoephedrine for the manufacture of methamphetamine, however, has not had the same impact as in the United States; instead, it has prompted Mexican organized crime groups to switch from using the ephedrine or pseudoephedrine method to the P-2-P-based method in the manufacture of methamphetamine. Initially, this went in parallel with the manufacture of a poorer quality product, but as the use of the P-2-P method in the methamphetamine found on the United States markets increased (rising from 1 per cent in 2007 to 37 per cent in the fourth quarter of 2009), the overall potency of methamphetamine found on the United States market declined, from 96 per cent in 2007 to 64 per cent in 2009. Without further purification at that time, the use of P-2-P allowed only for the manufacture of a less potent methamphetamine-racemate instead of the more potent d-methamphetamine that could be manufactured from ephedrine or pseudoephedrine.


Manufacturers tried to compensate for this apparent shortcoming by increasing the purity of methamphetamine: the purity of the methamphetamine found on the United States market rose from about 40 per cent in 2007 to close to 70 per cent in 2009.


According to United States authorities, the chemical expertise of Mexican organized crime groups improved further and they eventually succeeded in manufacturing highly potent d-methamphetamine from P-2-P, a skill that is now also sought after by criminal groups in countries outside the Americas. The reported purity of methamphetamine in the United States rose from 92 per cent in the first half of 20118 to 97 per cent in the first quarter of 2019, while the potency of the drug rose from 76 per cents to almost 98 per cent over the same period. This indicates an improvement in the know-how of the organized crime groups and an overall increase in the supply of methamphetamine in the United States.° The analysis of seizure data also suggests that, by the first half of 2019, 99 per cent of the methamphetamine on the United States market was manufactured using the P-2-P-based method, mainly out of non-controlled precursors of P-2-P, typically imported from China.

 

[unodelacosa]

Hi, sorry to bump this, but I'd be interested to know others' experiences of or understanding around doing this - either anecdotal regarding the improvements (or lack thereof) in their meth's effects, or on the chemistry side of things - whether there could be any benefit to this or if the process could be improved at all. I don't think there's any point in having a debate about the existence of n-iso, but rather the operative issue is if this procedure may be removing any contaminants (whatever they may be) currently in a lot of meth. There are a few positive anecdotal experiences on the original reddit thread, but I'd really value the insight of BLers. Thanks

There might be some benefit to rinsing gear with ice-cold, anhydrous acetone if one really suspect contaminants other than l-isomer meth. With some know-how and patience, one could use boiling methanol + anhydrous acetone in a two-solvent recrystallization to produce contiguous, high-quality/high-purity shards depending on skills and equipment, though this could also purify the cut if it's amine-based. Otherwise it seems more effective to separate the optical isomers with d-tartaric acid. Whatever's removed can be converted into a new 50/50 racemate, and the procedure repeated, ad nauseum, but it just depends on how much l-isomer is actually being removed. If it's over 25%, sure maybe fuck with it. If not, eh…

Or one could find someone with better gear

Regarding isomer separation:



https://www.unodc.org/res/wdr2021/field/WDR21_Booklet_4.pdf page 54:

Nice. Thanks for sharing this. I can't believe they report 99% of all street meth is from p-2-p now, and the purity is back up to being through the roof… I suppose this is also an indication of competition.

 

[Penny Sparkle]

So due to some recent convos I've had on here, I'm reticent to post too much in the BDD forums. But this also seems like the right place to continue this conversation at this point, so let me qualify that by saying this will likely get a bit complex for this forum. I apologize in advance & I also invite any mods with a strong conviction and impulse to move it elsewhere please feel free to do so. I'm only here to help. Back to isomeric resolution…

Yeah you're talking about using the chiral d-tartaric acid to separate each isomer in a racemic mix, exploiting chiral-based differences in solvency and crystal forming tendency with different solvents + stereospecific d-tartaric acid. Once separated, the unwanted isomer can be resolved into a racemic mix once again and the process repeated as desired to increase conversion yield but at a growingly expensive rate. So at first it's 50% d-meth, then after a resolution with tartaric acid, another 25% is added bringing the total to 75%. Repeat the process and it goes to 87.5%, and next 93.75%, then 96.875% and so on and so forth. But was that last resolution worth the extra 3.125%? Ask the question at each percentage increase and pretty quickly the answer becomes no in most clandestine chemistry settings by my conjecture.

However, yes I absolutely think you're correct regarding enantiomeric purity.


Just fun facts and FYI → this method to produce (+)-methamphetamine from the racemate has been known, discussed, and passed around for many years, even back to the old biker days when it was all made from p-2-p back then as well.

Evidently this knowledge dates to 1932. Pulling up posts from the Rhodium chemistry archives on the Erowid, check out this post from the turn of the century: https://www.erowid.org/archive/rhodium/chemistry/amphetamine.resolution.html I won't quote the whole thing, but:

> "It is known in the art (Ber. D. Chem. Gesell. (1932) p664) that d-amphetamine d-bitartrate may be obtained as a crystalline acid tartrate, from the racemic […]"​

The thing is: it's tedious to repeat this process, take half the yield, run it through the resolution process/reflux and then separate, rinse, and repeat, ad nauseum, or at least until the Law of Diminishing Results kicks in, and it's never the best case scenario with the yields like I'm figuring for the sake of making this point right now. The way I see it is like this… Think about how Mexican organized crime has handled drugs in the past and even now. Consider all that bullshit shwag, brown frown, ditch weed from the 90s we all smoked, but not before carefully de-seeding. Quality was sacrificed for convenience and quantity until mass production changed hands to Canada and California (obviously I'm speaking from a U.S. American-centric view; but similar things happened across Europe as well, can't speak on Oz and NZ/Oceania though, but I get the feeling this raising of the cannabis bar was somewhat global).

Now consider all the cocaine that comes across the southwest border from Mexico into the U.S. Maybe it's grown in Peru, Bolivia, or Columbia, but it winds up in HCl labs in Columbia regardless and thereafter is sent to Mexico for importation to the U.S. In order to get properly pure cocaine in the U.S. its source can't come from this chain where it's guaranteed to be cut. The stuff that comes fresh out of the hydrochloride labs before anything else is added to it is what you want. Too bad it's so expensive and rare outside of South America. At any rate, most of the shit many of us have hoovered up our noses in the U.S. is virtually always re-rock. Just between those two drugs alone – cannabis and cocaine – it's pretty clear that quality and purity take a quick backseat to profits with the Mexican TCOs¹, and then it just becomes whatever the market will tolerate.

But if you analyze the neglect and the disregard for human safety that has occurred as the so-called "cartels" have stepped into the opioid game with Chinese fentanyl and its analogues and derivatives, then … it's all just a bit of a crapshoot. And the U.S. govt. has the gall to call that "drug control".

At any rate, there are a few other listed procedures for resolving a racemic mixture of n-methyl amphetamine.

---

1.) The govt. calls them TCOs (Transnational Criminal Organizations) since "cartel" is a misnomer that implies cooperation and there are ~8 competing organizations in Mexico/The U.S. like The Sinaloa, The New Jalisco Cartel, Las Moicas, The Gulf Cartel, The Juarez Cartel, Los Cabelleros Templarios (porque: Católicos, por supuesto), Beltran-Leyva Organization, y Los Zetas.

Does MetalFace really say that somewhere ? what you have quoted I mean , I just noticed it ... slightly off topic

 

[unodelacosa]

Does MetalFace really say that somewhere ?

Of course.

 

[Tattooedwife]

Can nobody give us, in layman‘s terms, the procedure for using tartaric acid to remove the L-meth? Nobody wants to use bad product or put unnecessary chemicals in their body. But everything is vague, or in confusing technical terms, when it comes to the how of it. Can anyone help explain please

 

[snmfmy]

HOW TO SEPARATE METH FROM N-ISO;
-
Materials Needed:
- round bottom flask, or tall wineglass(need plastic wrap or something to seal to cover)
- 91% Isopropyl Alcohol (other concentrations will work but take longer)
- microwave
- freezer(optional)
*Roughly 1g of crystal can be dissolved into (each) 1 ml of isopropyl alcohol [IPA]Borh meth and iso are very soluble in this alcohol so it won’t take much, especially when using it hot. *
- Take alleged meth and pulverize into smaller workable size pieces or powder.
- Heat up alcohol in the microwave till it boils, and continue for a second or two. A good trick is to change the power level setting on a microwave to 7 or 6. It’s that setting it will allow small intervals of rest in between soft boils
- Once you have your Alcohol piping hot, drip it into your flask or glass containing product. Stir thoroughly until all is dissolved and solution becomes saturated Completely. Swiftly place it back in the microwave on you’re lowered setting again boiling softly just for a few more seconds
* (It can only help to keep it partially covered or vented during this process to prevent open-air contamination. More often than not, the air we breathe can ruin a batch of crystal during recrystallization. Ideal environment inert atmosphere or none at all)
- Before you Remove the vessel from the microwave make an observation to see if there is a formation of a white crust or crystals around the inside of the glass. Accompanied by formation of crystals in the pool of liquid. This will occur almost simultaneously, And quickly so be attentive.
-If both are observed, seal the vessel to promote faster and more sound crystal growth (On the contrary, If none are present continue to heat until You see them precipitate)
*(If one is too impatient and/or sets the microwave too high(or heats too long) it will force Crystallize incorporating all the impurities of the air in it. When most people try to re-crystallize. This is why a cover is essential in this procedure when using a wine glass. It doesn’t have to be airtight ironically But it doesn’t hurt)*
-The Individual using round bottom flask does not need to stopper it. In fact any vessel or glass that is tapered down as it rises would be efficient in this process. It just needs to be able to contain the vapors in the atmosphere above the solvent. Vapors of alcohol are generally more dense than air and will hug the ground or sink.
*Swirling or stirring is NOT necessary in fact It will actually retard the process. Remember the idea is to promote Seperation and encourage Crystal growth *
When the proper measures are observed and taken this procedure is done quite easily. In addition, the effectiveness of the separation is quite remarkable for its simplicity.
As the solvent cools and begins to evaporate, Crystals will bind with each other forming groups. What’s being exploited is Meth’s affinity for water, and isopropylbenzlamine solubility in isopropyl alcohol. The mechanism is not fully being explained, but the fundamental idea behind crystallization it’s been capitalized on.
The result is a pool containing Broad, needlelike crystals stacked in the figure of a teepee. This “teepee” is submerged in the Alcohol/Solvent called the mother liquor. It’s composition is water solvent impurities and of course, crystals.
The significant factor here is that IPA and water form What is Called in azeotrope. Simply put it is combination of liquids that evaporate at the same speed. Upon evaporation these two different compounds crash out of the vapor in two different fashions because they’re not the same chemical. One goes to the alcohol the other stays lingering above it and gets stuck to the glass. All the contaminants, cut and everything that’s not a crystal stays in the mother liquor. It will produce until the ratio is no longer in favor of making crystal formations.
Lastly one would take a blade or cut straw and separate the crystals mechanically. It’s a crude procedure, but not too difficult to complete. The little crystals around the inside of the glass are methamphetamine. The wet ones in the bottom which are still sitting in mother liquor are iso. A cut straw or a spoon is best for scooping the dryer crystals around the rim onto a separate saucer. Left out with a paper towel or similar covering it loosely, the meth will dry best at room temperature because it is a Hydrochloride salt. They do not need to be washed with acetone, heated or manipulated in anyway. Isopropylbenzlamine can be taken out of the liquid and dried as well however its uses are quite limited obviously
It works y’all. I’ve been testing it out for the past few months and this Method is full proof and works every time.

Methamphetamine and N-Iso have the SAME solubility in water and isopropanol. You can't remove N-Iso using isopropanol and water and recrystallization. (unless you know some chemistry voodoo nobody else knows)

The only way to separate them is by melting point. Isopropylbenzylamine has a melting point about 30°C different than methamphetamine. Or by chiral separation (possibly). Isopropylbenzylamine is achiral, the meth should be dextro-rotary.

 

[unodelacosa]

Can nobody give us, in layman‘s terms, the procedure for using tartaric acid to remove the L-meth? Nobody wants to use bad product or put unnecessary chemicals in their body. But everything is vague, or in confusing technical terms, when it comes to the how of it. Can anyone help explain please

It's because it's not really a "layman's" kinda thing. It's specific AF, and like most things of this nature, it comes loaded with all kinds of technical jargon that isn't the easiest to translate into layman's terms; that's why it exists, in fact, this jargon. There are so many little things. It seems fairly tedious, and it is to the layman, I assure you, though it's simple to any lab technician. You could probably bamboozle some AI chatbot to approximate the layman's instructions, but I'm not sure I would trust it but so much.

It's all just lab procedure stuff though that follows the same basic principles involved in an acid/base extraction. All my DMT-extractor heads will already have some idea of how this works.

Anyways, here's a video that might help.

It's all pretty straightforward and kitchen-chemistry-friendly until the gassing bit at the end, which needs proper ventilation and safety equipment, but could still be done technically by the 'layman', I suppose… I dunno. Whatever you do, don't break any laws, please.

Methamphetamine and N-Iso have the SAME solubility in water and isopropanol. You can't remove N-Iso using isopropanol and water and recrystallization. (unless you know some chemistry voodoo nobody else knows)

The only way to separate them is by melting point. Isopropylbenzylamine has a melting point about 30°C different than methamphetamine. Or by chiral separation (possibly). Isopropylbenzylamine is achiral, the meth should be dextro-rotary.

I thought this for a long time, too. Turns out though that the n-iso thing is 99% myth. While it has been used in the past as a cutting agent, it's a very pricy cutting agent that wouldn't make long-term enough profit. Totally understandable; it's a wide-spread myth. Pass it on, please

 

[snmfmy]

Methamphetamine and N-Iso have the SAME solubility in water and isopropanol. You can't remove N-Iso using isopropanol and water and recrystallization. (unless you know some chemistry voodoo nobody else knows)

The only way to separate them is by melting point. Isopropylbenzylamine has a melting point about 30°C different than methamphetamine

I thought this for a long time, too. Turns out though that the n-iso thing is 99% myth. While it has been used in the past as a cutting agent, it's a very pricy cutting agent that wouldn't make long-term enough profit. Totally understandable; it's a wide-spread myth. Pass it on, please

Yes, I know.

I was just addressing the fact that his proposed process to remove n-iso from meth would not work.

I used to post under a different username. Actually been on the forum in one incarnation or another for a couple decades.

 

[unodelacosa]

Methamphetamine and N-Iso have the SAME solubility in water and isopropanol. You can't remove N-Iso using isopropanol and water and recrystallization. (unless you know some chemistry voodoo nobody else knows)

The only way to separate them is by melting point. Isopropylbenzylamine has a melting point about 30°C different than methamphetamine

Yes, I know.

I was just addressing the fact that his proposed process to remove n-iso from meth would not work.

I used to post under a different username. Actually been on the forum in one incarnation or another for a couple decades.

Did you previously post as Atomic_Decay? If so, I owe you an apology, and I'm glad your back. I hope there are no hard feelings… If not Atomic_Decay, obviously pls disregard; the gist of it is: passionate people can get carried away from time to time…

 

[mikeukldn]

Exactly, N-ISO mimics it due to their closely related chem structure. I'll just say right now there is absolutely no household test you can do on it to verify whether or not it's meth or n-iso. I use to think when I did the A/B wash with anhydrous acetone and isopropyl alcohol that I was removing most impurities, I think I was just fooling myself. Keeping an open mind is important, especially today.

For 99.9% of us, the only way to verify that info would be to take it to a research lab for testing. I have wanted to for 2-3 years now simply because I have always suspected this is not meth. Can't be. But yet it still does something so it's hard to stop. The longer the habit, the harder it is to stop even if the stuff we're getting is complete DOGSHIT.

It's still a vasoconstrictor. It overworks our hearts and prevents normal blood-flow to extremities, including the brain. My own general rule of thumb has been meth should provide more of a rush than pure fishscale Columbian coke. Then do a comparison, notice there is no euphoria but instead are more awake probably with a jittery feeling? Makes it very hard to not wonder "what the fuck is this shit?." I can literally sleep 5 minutes after a big hit. Not suppose to work like that unless extremely sleep deprived which I wasn't.

Those that might say it's dopamine depletion. Nope, been there many times. I have my black belt in dopamine depletion.

I know there is now a separate subject regarding the validity of suspecting the cut/entire thing to be iopropylbenzylamine.
It (over)captured my attention a few years back when the DEA made a huge bust in Bakersfield, CA that had entirely n-iso. Whatever the case may be, as the title says "we're not stupid."

When I see any uniform shapes like bottom of a container, squares, etc I can't help but think what hell is this fucking shit? I think it has either been modified since creation as in via re-crystallization or it's something else entirely. Shape isn't exactly an indicator, however those very few of us know what real meth looks like. Small, hard, non-uniform shaped shards, sometimes with slight yellowish/cloudy tint, sometimes not, that looks oily but isn't. If you can crush it between 2 fingers, it's not meth. We need to stop calling it meth. I don't know about you, but in my circle we call it "clear". Originally I thought this was because the word meth had such a bad rep. Could another possibility be that it is was never meant to be meth in the first place? You tell me.

They're not even trying to fool us anymore... the shape of a bottom of a container corner, are you fucking kidding me? FUCK YOU whoever is creating this fake bullshit.

Be nice to form some sort of group so we can get it tested. I know about the test on that eo website. More are needed. For me and just about everyone else the main issue preventing that is #1: Money and #2: Motivation. I don't have the first, and even less than the second. The desire for the lab test information overrides #2 because it affects not just me, but my friends and people I care about. If there was no stigma about meth, this should have hit mainstream news already with the sheer amount of voices involved.

Can I just say, WOW, this is exactly a mirror of my thoughts! I have been searching the net for a few days now regarding my problem and this is the first honest and accurate explanation I found. Thank God for the users and people like yourself. I'm so grateful to be able to find this website and like-minded people. I'm from the UK. Normally, when I start searching the net, all I get is rehabs and bullshit stories about how your face is going to get covered with cysts and all your teeth are going to fall out if you use meth, with no real inputs like here!

I just want to add that I got some really good and transparently looking crystals (proper ice-like), but after smoking it, the difference in comparison with real stuff was pretty obvious! And that was after a few days of good sleep and nutritious food! So no depletion of any chemicals in my brain. I was really disappointed (to say it lightly). As per your experience, I only felt MORE awake, no euphoria, no strong sexual urge like with methamphetamine. In fact, after smoking it for only a few hours, I felt pretty shit, with unbearable headaches. I started doing pressure point exercises to relieve it, together with 600mg of ibuprofen, which made me hungry, and after wolfing my food down, I fell asleep. So really, it just can't be methamphetamine I was smoking, and I cannot blame any other factors, but the shit I got!

BTW, has anyone found out what this stuff is???!

My final thoughts: "Bummer! because from now on, it is impossible to know just by looking at it whether I am getting good quality stuff or not."

P.s.: The “crushing the shard with fingers test” works!! The stuff I got at the start was a big crystal. I could literally separate small bits for the pipe with my fingers. And when I tried to crush a smaller shard with my fingers, it felt like crushing a tea cookie crumb! It brought me back memories when meth was meth - to separate a large crystal into smaller fragments, I had to place the bag on the table and bang it with a plate to crush it!

 

[mikeukldn]

Close it why? People need to be aware that what they are getting is bad for them. REALLY bad for them. And its being passed off as Meth. Why would you want to close a thread

This is a real issue in UK now!

 

[Mr E room 101 supervisor]

It's because it's not really a "layman's" kinda thing. It's specific AF, and like most things of this nature, it comes loaded with all kinds of technical jargon that isn't the easiest to translate into layman's terms; that's why it exists, in fact, this jargon. There are so many little things. It seems fairly tedious, and it is to the layman, I assure you, though it's simple to any lab technician. You could probably bamboozle some AI chatbot to approximate the layman's instructions, but I'm not sure I would trust it but so much.

It's all just lab procedure stuff though that follows the same basic principles involved in an acid/base extraction. All my DMT-extractor heads will already have some idea of how this works.

Anyways, here's a video that might help.

It's all pretty straightforward and kitchen-chemistry-friendly until the gassing bit at the end, which needs proper ventilation and safety equipment, but could still be done technically by the 'layman', I suppose… I dunno. Whatever you do, don't break any laws, please.


I thought this for a long time, too. Turns out though that the n-iso thing is 99% myth. While it has been used in the past as a cutting agent, it's a very pricy cutting agent that wouldn't make long-term enough profit. Totally understandable; it's a wide-spread myth. Pass it on, please

Anyway you have an updated link for that video by chance?

 

[unodelacosa]

Anyway you have an updated link for that video by chance?

Sorry, I do not, but thanks for letting me know the video was taken down.

If you search for organic chemistry videos demonstrating an A/B (acid/base) extraction, the procedure is the same with anything containing an amine.