Stimulants Claims regarding meth and n-iso: prevalence, detection, cleaning.

[TheAddicted]

BDD Moderator Note:

The large-scale contamination of methamphetamine supplies with the cutting agent n-isopropylbenzylamine seems unlikely on the available evidence presented across multiple threads on Bluelight. However, it cannot be denied that there have been a number of verified cases of n-iso contamination. Although these verified cases are statistically insignificant, many people would like to know how to be more certain their meth is not cut with n-iso.

For the moment, discussions on identifying n-iso contamination of meth and cleaning such contaminated meth are to be limited to this thread. This is simply so interested parties can follow the discussion and examine all the evidence in one easy location.

Existing posts on this topic will gradually be moved into this thread and people with an interest in this topic are asked to keep discussion limited to this thread and to keep all posting constructive and civil.

Thanks

There's a DEA report on seized drug qualities in the US, most methamphetamine is > 95% pure.
Google 2019 National Drug Threat Assessment - DEA.
So if N-iso is being used as a cut it's at low levels, and inconsitently.

No, it just looks like that. Because they are

"That brings us back to the original OP question of how to turn one into the other" (exactly)
My original question stands.
The previous post taken from reddit is filled with misinformation,
I am a very old time stoner, having experience with a large variety of drugs, (making, selling and consuming)

Lemme disspell a few myths, I dont have the time nor interest to disspell all of them posted. But lets start with the mention of water, ISO has no water in it and when you break up ISO crystals, they do not seem nor feel damp at all, quite the opposite in fact, they are extremely dry.
I have heard both myths, "ISO has no effects" and ISO effects mimic meth effects but lasts a shorter amount of time.
I bought about a QP of isopropylbenzylamine, so I am speaking from experience, and I bought it direct from a manufacturer, not a distributor or a middle man. If I had to pick a drug of choice, mine would have to be crack because of the initial rush. The only effect from isopropylbenzylamine is the initial rush, it gives a nice rush, in fact its a better rush than what real meth offers, but it has no speed effect what so ever. No matter if you smoke it or take the IV route. It burns beautifully on foil, like high quality meth, except when you stop smoking and allow it to harden again, ISO takes about 5 additional seconds to harden up again.. I prefer a pipe though.

Price is another myth, isopropylbenzylamine is very inexpensive, after I paid for shipping and the product too, my final price was 1.58 per gram, so as you can see it is pretty cheap, and if I buy more the price drops, if I buy a kilo (1000 grams) I can get my price to drop to about 67 cents per gram, shipping included. Of course if I buy even more, the price drops even more.

I do keep some around the house for a few reasons, its legal and my wife enjoys it too. it is nice to smoke it with my wife, if only for the rush, and at this price, I dont care if either of us drops some or whatever. The rush is about the only redeeming feature from isopropylbenzylamine. It does look "almost" identical to meth, it tastes identical too. It is however softer and it is hard to actually mistake this for real meth because when you smoke it and get past the rush, it offers nothing else, in fact you could turn around and go to sleep.

I do wish to revert to my original question, "can this be made into real meth"? What about if one were to gas it with HCL, my main concern at this point is to convert it to meth from its crystalized form, however I can also get it in liquid form too, which still begs the original question, can ISO be made into real meth?

https: //www. fishersci.com/store/msds?partNumber=AAB2324322&productDescription=N-ISOPROPLBENZYLAMINE+97%25+100G&vendorId=VN00024248&countryCode=US&language=en

Just in case you would like to know how toxic it is. The link is broken so it doesn’t get deleted

 

[TheAddicted]

https://www.fishersci.com/store/msds?partNumber=AAB2324322&productDescription=N-ISOPROPLBENZYLAMINE+97%25+100G&vendorId=VN00024248&countryCode=US&language=en

This is so toxxic

 

[TheAddicted]

Guys read my post, it's impossible to turn N-ISO into Meth. All chemicals having any kind of organical structure being sold out of China are "pharmaceutical intermediates"; legallity issues.
I think we can close this thread now.

Close it why? People need to be aware that what they are getting is bad for them. REALLY bad for them. And its being passed off as Meth. Why would you want to close a thread

 

[TheAddicted]

2010 that long huh, ? All Im saying is it would be hard to mistake ISO for real meth. Way different. Bty I first tried meth in the early 70's.

No it’s not different you would not know the difference people don’t know the difference that’s the whole point of this they think they’re getting Meth and actually its 50% Levo meth and 25 percent nISO and then MAYBE you get 25% of what’s left.

 

[TheAddicted]

No, it just looks like that. Because they are

https: //www. fishersci.com/store/msds?partNumber=AAB2324322&productDescription=N-ISOPROPLBENZYLAMINE+97%25+100G&vendorId=VN00024248&countryCode=US&language=en

Just in case you would like to know how toxic it is. The link is broken so it doesn’t get deleted

Reddit Claim about n-iso

BDD Moderator Note: We don't really need walls of text re-posted from Reddit. However, a simple link is no problem so I have inserted one so the content posted is still accessible.

 

[TheAddicted]

Call me Gullible, but I do trust the DEA reports. What do they have to gain by telling people the purities of drugs? If anything I would assume they'd intentionally lower the published purities, to make people think it's a waste of time. I presume the figures come from bulk seizures though, not street level dealers.

Back when I was doing GCMS ~2years ago, out of maybe a half dozen samples of ice, I only ever saw MSM in meth once, and never saw this famed N-Iso. I personally think meth is both cheap enough and there's enough competition to make cutting your product a dumb idea - bad news travels faster than good, and when there's 3 dealers on the same block all selling different shit, if you get shit product you'll go somewhere else.

Most of the other word-of-mouth I hear about methamphetamine analysis lines up with this too - relatively high purities.

That’s because y’all are never testing for it you don’t know how it takes more than just looking through the marquee test. Because it’s on the same chain it tests as meth. There’s a forensic write up from one of the research forensics scientist that works for the DEA and she’s the one that figured it out and said you’re going to screw up all your cases if you don’t start acknowledging that this is what it is this is what it’s not so I don’t know if you’re trying to take part in some kind of disinformation campaign along with several other people but these are facts I have proof in front of me from seven different sources

 

[TheAddicted]

Having been in the company of people who smoke methamphetamine, the vapor produced has a sord of weird, chemical-ish, fishy, amine-like smell. Even with pure stuff.

That’s because the base smells like that methamphetamine freebase smells like fish

 

[TheAddicted]

How would iso test positive for meth when no meth is present?
The two compounds are structurally very similar, but that's about as far as it goes. Where did you obtain isopropylbenzylamine?

Again it’s a chain isomer of methamphetamine

 

[Atomic_Decay]

Close it why? People need to be aware that what they are getting is bad for them. REALLY bad for them. And its being passed off as Meth. Why would you want to close a thread

We try not to close threads. However, in this particular sub-forum we occasionally do so for a number of reason. The main one being that the thread adds nothing useful to our objective of peer-based harm reduction. While we accept all kinds of personal testimony about drug experiences on faith alone, larger claims such as some being made in this thread do require some kind of reasonable evidence. The claims you are making about n-iso are very old news here. While we greatly value your desire to ensure people are informed of the potential risks of taking adulterated meth, you should be aware that this topic has been hotly debated in multiple threads by some of our finest minds here and some of our most experienced tweakers (these two categories do not fully overlap). The consensus reached from analysis of all the evidence everybody presented is that the extent of n-iso contamination in the meth supply chain in North America and elsewhere is minimal. Not that it doesn't exist. Just that it is extremely unlikely statistically that your average meth fiend or even occasional dabbler is going to get n-iso contaminated meth. speaking.

As such, It is not sufficient for you to say you have "facts from seven different sources" that prove the opposite. However, you are welcome to table these facts for all of us to consider as an ongoing contribution to the debate. And you should certainly do this before telling anybody else they are part of some 'disinformation campaign'. In fact, I'd suggest you might want to edit that out of your post above.

 

[ketaset84]

Get a new source if u aren't getting pure stuff

Haha! this guy!

 

[ketaset84]

There's no shortage of pure shard out there atm

You must have a time machine that set for 10+ yrs in past, or frankly delusional/inexperienced (to points words can't express)
*Outside of you being a cook or direct best friend of one (yet saying "Plenty" sorta cancels it out)....
Literally such a statement U claim is not in the realms of reality.
Sorry if I sound base/crass, but its simply not true or possible. I assure you a bit of simple research online can easily confirm, I wish it was in fact just me being an asshole talking shit. GOOD GOD how I wish it was the latter. This future sucks bigtime in certain areas, Humanistic rooted ones really.
Cheers!

 

[Atomic_Decay]

You must have a time machine that set for 10+ yrs in past, or frankly delusional/inexperienced (to points words can't express)
*Outside of you being a cook or direct best friend of one (yet saying "Plenty" sorta cancels it out)....
Literally such a statement U claim is not in the realms of reality.
Sorry if I sound base/crass, but its simply not true or possible. I assure you a bit of simple research online can easily confirm, I wish it was in fact just me being an asshole talking shit. GOOD GOD how I wish it was the latter. This future sucks bigtime in certain areas, Humanistic rooted ones really.
Cheers!

To save me typing it out all over again just for you, please note these moderator comments I made to another user in this thread in this thread only a few hours ago. They apply equally to all - and in your case perhaps you might like to use the edit function and wind back this comment?

or frankly delusional/inexperienced (to points words can't express)

Post in thread 'isopropylbenzylamine & meth'
https://bluelight.org/xf/threads/isopropylbenzylamine-meth.885823/post-15539452

 

[TheAddicted]

This is not in any way a form of separation or analysis. Crystallization from a solvent can occur at different times in different places in the container with varying size/shape crystals.

I could easily explain this away as the small crystals on the side occurred during the major drop in heat while the crystal grew during a longer more drawn out phase of cooling.

While it is possible to separate substances like this based on solubility you’d then need each analyzed to know if they are different substances or the same.

-GC

Yes I can be done through fractional distillation because I’ve been doing it. I’ve been taking peoples packages and cleaning out this horrible stuff from it I know nobody believes it I know it’s a debated subject but I’m telling you that I have been able to separate the n-ISO from MA. If not that then what is it. Receive it I think that amine will not crystallize into shards without something else introduced to it to help it. So my question to you is if not that then what what else is there that could possibly make this 98% pure and also be cut a dilute or a bulking agent so to speak. MSM would create a lower melting point for the product this has a higher melting point in Methamphetamine. I’m my opinion it’s n-ISO. There’s people that are actually buying stuff right now because they can’t get anything else because they like it just gives them a quick rush. I don’t know about it but what I do know is that I am 100% an ambassador for harm reduction and whatever I have to do to help I’m going to do it.

 

[TheAddicted]

Ok… You’ve got me intrigued. More details on the fractional distillation please, what BP’s are different components coming over, vacuum used, etc. Since we are discussing the purification of a substance it should fall outside the scope of “synthesis talk” and obviously harm reduction to have as clean of drugs as possible.

So please further details, and what’s the explanation for all the data seemingly pointing the other direction? So

I repeat this over and over again they keep saying that the methamphetamine that has been picked up in busts has been 98% pure, but if it was 98% pure it would not be in crystal shards the size of Kansas. It would be flaky powdery almost it would be racemic which does not like a crystalline form so if not n-ISO what is it? And again how can it be pure if it has a bulking agent in it because you have to have an additive in order for it to crystallize into the shards. it’s just it’s just how it is. So we come up with a way to basically isolate n-ISO and pretty much trap it in isopropyl alcohol. n-ISO does not want to go anywhere near the water molecules, it is happy in it’s a little mother liquid isopropyl alcohol. MA on the other hand it can’t stand alcohol so ithas to get out it has to get awasy. I’ve been doing a short version for friends of mine who I am concerned for their health and I just end up cleaning up their stuff for them. And it’s a simple as pouring boiling isopropyl alcohol over finished MA letting it evaporate slowly over a day and collecting the MA from the crust above the alcohol and the cut is trapped in the bottom mother liquid. now this isn’t going to purify it obviously but it’s going to separate it as much as it will. it’s of there’s going to be traces in each side but the main thing is is that you’re separating them as much as you can without having to have a lab setup. Now we just got equipment yesterday to test the theory and so far it has worked unbelievably,( please forgive me for my street terms. I’m not a chemist I repeat I am not a chemist.but I understand it ) So I’m just going to give the quick version

Liberate freebase with koh
Elute with Nacl. And Naoh if needed for full push.
Allowed two phase to form
Discard aqueous phase
Dry with cacl, nacl and Activated charcoal
Subject HCl guess prepared by dehydration of (salt + h2S04) + cacl
Expose do not submerge hose
Allow crystal to form and dilute
Twice
Evaporate
Check clarity and quality. It’s not satisfied add naoh and distilled water. Slowly steam steel mean with hydrosol to subsequently be separated dried and treated again with HCl directly in the form of drops

msm desolates…Components are subjective to Hg, which was a Ritchie 2 Phase rotary pump at min of 12hg and max of 27 tapered toward end.

why do you want me to tell you with the crossover temperature of n-ISO is if you don’t believe it exists? So you can argue with me some more?

You were talking to a Mexican cartel chemist working in a super lab producing hundreds of kilos of meth every week?

Fuck, what an awesome connect! What else did you learn?

I didn’t say that I was talking to a cartel chemist who is working in a super lab producing hundreds of kilos of method of week I said one of them admitted it because he argued with me about the process being the same exact process that is used to crystallize it in the first place. And he was caught

 

[TheAddicted]

Liberate freebase with koh
Elute with Nacl. And Naoh if needed for full push.
Allowed two phase to form
Discard aqueous phase
Dry with cacl, nacl and Activated charcoal
Subject HCl guess prepared by dehydration of (salt + h2S04) + cacl
Expose do not submerge hose
Allow crystal to form and dilute
Twice
Evaporate
Check clarity and quality. It’s not satisfied add naoh and distilled water. Slowly steam steel mean with hydrosol to subsequently be separated dried and treated again with HCl directly in the form of drops

msm desolates…Components are subjective to Hg, which was a Ritchie 2 Phase rotary pump at min of 12hg and max of 27 tapered toward end.

why do you want me to tell you what the crossover temperature of n-ISO is if you don’t believe it exists? So you can argue with me some more? Even if it isn’t n-ISO it is something. Isn’t it? It sure isn’t meth.

And just for the record, I didn’t say that I was talking to a cartel chemist who is working in a super lab producing hundreds of kilos of meth a week I said one of them admitted it because he argued with me about the process being the same exact process that is used to crystallize it in the first place. And he was caught

The argument is still on Reddit

 

[TheAddicted]

Ok… You’ve got me intrigued. More details on the fractional distillation please, what BP’s are different components coming over, vacuum used, etc. Since we are discussing the purification of a substance it should fall outside the scope of “synthesis talk” and obviously harm reduction to have as clean of drugs as possible.

So please further details, and what’s the explanation for all the data seemingly pointing the other direction? So

I repeat this over and over again they keep saying that the methamphetamine that has been picked up in busts has been 98% pure, but if it was 98% pure it would not be in crystal shards the size of Kansas. It would be flaky powdery almost it would be racemic which does not like a crystalline form so if not n-ISO what is it? And again how can it be pure if it has a bulking agent in it because you have to have an additive in order for it to crystallize into the shards. it’s just it’s just how it is. So we come up with a way to basically isolate n-ISO and pretty much trap it and its own mother liquid isopropyl alcohol does not want to go anywhere near the water molecules, it is happy in it’s a little mother liquid isopropyl alcohol. MA on the other hand it can’t stand alcohol so it Hass to get out it Hass to get awasy. I’ve been doing a short version for friends of mine who I am concerned for their health and I just end up cleaning up their stuff for them. And it’s a simple as pouring boiling isopropyl alcohol over finished MA letting it evaporate slowly over a day and collecting the MA from the crust above the alcohol and the cut is trapped in the bottom mother liquid. now this isn’t going to purify it obviously but it’s going to separate it as much as it will. it’s of there’s going to be traces in each side but the main thing is is that you’re separating them as much as you can without having to have a lab setup. Now we just got equipment yesterday to test the theory and so far it has worked unbelievably,( please forgive me for my street terms. I’m not a chemist I repeat I am not a chemist.but I understand it ) So I’m just going to give the quick version

Liberate freebase with koh
Elute with Nacl. And Naoh if needed for full push.
Allowed two phase to form
Discard aqueous phase
Dry with cacl, nacl and Activated charcoal
Subject HCl guess prepared by dehydration of (salt + h2S04) + cacl
Expose do not submerge hose
Allow crystal to form and dilute
Twice
Evaporate
Check clarity and quality. It’s not satisfied add naoh and distilled water. Slowly steam steel mean with hydrosol to subsequently be separated dried and treated again with HCl directly in the form of drops

msm desolates…Components are subjective to Hg, which was a Ritchie 2 Phase rotary pump at min of 12hg and max of 27 tapered toward end.

why do you want me to tell you with the crossover temperature of n-ISO is if you don’t believe it exists? So you can argue with me some more?
Also when have you ever seen MA crystals form inside Isopropyl alcohol. Never because it doesn’t happen it can’t happen. But I have proof pictures of shards forming within the isopropyl alcohol as it’s drying and this is just the simple separation technique that that we’ve been using.

Here is a short write up and invitation for people to DM me and asked me to walk them through the short process that I posted on Reddit. As I said its a crude liberation not a purification.

 

[Atomic_Decay]

The large-scale contamination of methamphetamine supplies with the cutting agent n-isopropylbenzylamine seems unlikely on the available evidence presented across multiple threads on Bluelight. However, it cannot be denied that there have been a number of verified cases of n-iso contamination. Although these verified cases are statistically insignificant, many people would like to know how to be more certain their meth is not cut with n-iso.

For the moment, discussions on identifying n-iso contamination of meth and cleaning such contaminated meth are to be limited to this thread. This is simply so interested parties can follow the discussion and examine all the evidence in one easy location.

Existing posts on this topic will gradually be moved into this thread and people with an interest in this topic are asked to keep discussion limited to this thread and to keep all posting constructive and civil.

Thanks

 

[G_Chem]

Alright you’ve posted a lot of information but in the end you still have zero clue what this mystery substance is you are isolating. You’ve said this yourself… It also has me seriously doubting that you’ve actually performed much more than a simple A/B and recrystallization on this product for a number of reasons.

At least check out my thread with actual relevant information that could be the impurities you are seeking.

Stimulants - Maybe the Meth Has Changed?

I’d like to further entertain the idea Meth in the US has changed somehow. Before I continue I hope this isn’t a repeat but I tried looking a bit to not find anything. It appears there has been over the past 5yrs a shift in the way p2p is produced to the nitrostyrene method. Producing two...

bluelight.org

The timeline of these impurities popping up correlates well many of the claims meth has changed.

-GC

 

[TheAddicted]

We try not to close threads. However, in this particular sub-forum we occasionally do so for a number of reason. The main one being that the thread adds nothing useful to our objective of peer-based harm reduction. While we accept all kinds of personal testimony about drug experiences on faith alone, larger claims such as some being made in this thread do require some kind of reasonable evidence. The claims you are making about n-iso are very old news here. While we greatly value your desire to ensure people are informed of the potential risks of taking adulterated meth, you should be aware that this topic has been hotly debated in multiple threads by some of our finest minds here and some of our most experienced tweakers (these two categories do not fully overlap). The consensus reached from analysis of all the evidence everybody presented is that the extent of n-iso contamination in the meth supply chain in North America and elsewhere is minimal. Not that it doesn't exist. Just that it is extremely unlikely statistically that your average meth fiend or even occasional dabbler is going to get n-iso contaminated meth. speaking.

As such, It is not sufficient for you to say you have "facts from seven different sources" that prove the opposite. However, you are welcome to table these facts for all of us to consider as an ongoing contribution to the debate. And you should certainly do this before telling anybody else they are part of some 'disinformation campaign'. In fact, I'd suggest you might want to edit that out of your post above.

I said, PROOF not facts.

 

[TheAddicted]

Alright you’ve posted a lot of information but in the end you still have zero clue what this mystery substance is you are isolating. You’ve said this yourself… It also has me seriously doubting that you’ve actually performed much more than a simple A/B and recrystallization on this product for a number of reasons.

At least check out my thread with actual relevant information that could be the impurities you are seeking.

Stimulants - Maybe the Meth Has Changed?

I’d like to further entertain the idea Meth in the US has changed somehow. Before I continue I hope this isn’t a repeat but I tried looking a bit to not find anything. It appears there has been over the past 5yrs a shift in the way p2p is produced to the nitrostyrene method. Producing two...

bluelight.org

The timeline of these impurities popping up correlates well many of the claims meth has changed.

-GC

Your right, it was a not a fractional, it was a duel distillation. I cant post the findings for that but I can post what Ive done as far as the simple separation.