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  • Film & TV Moderators: ghostfreak

Television Breaking Bad

This was the best show on television its first two seasons. The jury is still out on the third season. The first three episodes were all dealing with transitioning the characters to a new dynamic, and it got pretty tedious. I mean, I think they were good episodes, just so much less bang than we came to expect from prior seasons, when every episode had something that made you say "WTF?!"

This last episode had a bit of that bang again, so I liked it more and I hope they get back to the kind of intensity they had the first two seasons. I recognize you cannot necessary keep that kind of intensity going during every episode, season after season, so I am going to bear with it.

I like my fiction to be realistic, so I was a bit bothered by the chemistry aspect -- why do they need Walt the chemistry teacher if they have access to amazing lab grade equipment and guys with chemistry majors? Why is this supposedly cautious drug kingpin dealing with Walt and all his baggage? The best explanation I can think of would be that Walt has developed a completely original and new formula that this guy things will help him expand his market share or something. I mean, there was the episode where Walt said he was using a formula that did not need a bunch of sudafed, and they stole a barrell of some alternative substance.

Anyway, recognizing that it is not a "real" explanation, it would still be plausible, within the fiction of the story world, if Walt had come up with an awesome and improved formula for crystal meth that needs a high skill level to produce, but is worth it. As for Jesse's ability to produce a passable product, I do not think that signifies it is an easy formula, but rather indicates that Jesse is actually very bright and absorbed a lot of knowledge from Walt (and Walt, being a teacher, was likely good at transferring know-how to Jesse).

The above explanation is what I choose to believe even though the writers have not been 100% clear about it, and even if it is not what they intend, simply because it allows me to enjoy the show more.

What really screwed up my enjoyment of the last episode was the notion that Walt -- this incredibly responsible, careful, thorough, meticulous genius -- never thought, "Gee, maybe I should tell Saul to tell Jesse he is being watched by the DEA so he does not go to the RV." I mean, what is the use of having the incredible luck of learning that your former partner in crime is under police surveillance IF YOU DO NOT FUCKING TELL YOUR PARTNER!! That is such a huge gaping hole in the plot, given that they are trying to portray Walt as this ultra-smart, ultra-responsible drug dealer, that I simply cannot believe it. It was a bone-head move by the writers. They could have gotten to the same ultimate situation (them in the RV with Hank outside) with another approach more consistent with the characters.

Equally as bad was the way they supposedly got out of that situation. I do not believe for a second that that would have worked. Since when do DEA agents not have partners? Why wouldn't Hank have called for back up the second he saw the RV? He could have had agents there to baby sit the thing while he went to the hospital to check on his wife.

And Walt and Jesse just stand around watching the RV get crushed -- they have no idea if Hank called for authorities to come to that location, or how long it would be until Hank discovered the ruse (he could have tried calling his wife's phone the second he drove off, or she could have called him).

Anyway, I guess I do think the writers have gotten intellectually lazy. I'm not going to threaten to stop watching, but it does disappoint me. I hope future episodes are better.

~psychoblast~
 
I feel the same way....I dont want to step on any toes, but I do sort of agree that its difficult to talk about the show without actually talking about the show.....I mean...if you have some kind of secret knowledge, like you found some pirated scenes for next week or part of a script that nobody had had a chance to see yet...sure, use NSFW...Otherwise you should pretty much expect people to talk about whats happening in the show in a conversation about the show. That makes sense, right?

I agree. I missed it Sunday night, but just saw a repeat on TV. Hence, why I stayed away from the thread for a few days.

I like my fiction to be realistic, so I was a bit bothered by the chemistry aspect -- why do they need Walt the chemistry teacher if they have access to amazing lab grade equipment and guys with chemistry majors? Why is this supposedly cautious drug kingpin dealing with Walt and all his baggage? The best explanation I can think of would be that Walt has developed a completely original and new formula that this guy things will help him expand his market share or something. I mean, there was the episode where Walt said he was using a formula that did not need a bunch of sudafed, and they stole a barrell of some alternative substance.

What really screwed up my enjoyment of the last episode was the notion that Walt -- this incredibly responsible, careful, thorough, meticulous genius -- never thought, "Gee, maybe I should tell Saul to tell Jesse he is being watched by the DEA so he does not go to the RV." I mean, what is the use of having the incredible luck of learning that your former partner in crime is under police surveillance IF YOU DO NOT FUCKING TELL YOUR PARTNER!! That is such a huge gaping hole in the plot, given that they are trying to portray Walt as this ultra-smart, ultra-responsible drug dealer, that I simply cannot believe it. It was a bone-head move by the writers. They could have gotten to the same ultimate situation (them in the RV with Hank outside) with another approach more consistent with the characters.

Equally as bad was the way they supposedly got out of that situation. I do not believe for a second that that would have worked. Since when do DEA agents not have partners? Why wouldn't Hank have called for back up the second he saw the RV? He could have had agents there to baby sit the thing while he went to the hospital to check on his wife.

And Walt and Jesse just stand around watching the RV get crushed -- they have no idea if Hank called for authorities to come to that location, or how long it would be until Hank discovered the ruse (he could have tried calling his wife's phone the second he drove off, or she could have called him).

Anyway, I guess I do think the writers have gotten intellectually lazy. I'm not going to threaten to stop watching, but it does disappoint me. I hope future episodes are better.

~psychoblast~


Walt was clearly under-employed as a chemistry teacher. I think that's what they were going for whenever they mentioned him being screwed out of going into business with that Gretchen woman and her husband.

How was Walt supposed to tell Jesse that the RV was being searched for and was linked to Jesse? When he called Saul he told him that he was worried that Jesse's phone was bugged, which was why he didn't say anything to him.

I thought Hank didn't have a partner since he's sort of an outcast at the office right now. They made it seem like everyone believes the RV searching was a longshot. Also his old partner just left for El Paso, so there might be some transitioning phase as well. He's also basically just made this a personal vendetta and is seemingly focusing on it so intently in some attempt to reclaim his heroic title. Ever since he left El Paso he clearly feels weakened and he's intent on getting this bust to revitalize his image.

I do agree that Walt and Jesse standing around watching the RV get crushed was careless. I think they just wanted to see it's last moments. Walt was clearly reminiscing about old times before Jesse barged in the RV. It was sad watching it be destroyed, clearly an end to their small-time beginning and what was a physical representation of the tie between Walt and Jesse.



Most recent episode was awesome! %) Loved the ending shot before the credits came up. Also thought the way Gustav said "Hank Schrader" was really creepy, especially since he knows that Hank is Walt's brother in law. They always leave on such a dramatic note! Great episode! :)
 
Yeah, there is a good reason why he is alone on this mission. Nobody believes Hank down at the DEA office. Everyone thinks hes lost it. That was consistent.

It bothered me that Walt didnt tell Jessies friend not to call Jessie....that was a dumb move....its possible. Walt can be bull headed sometimes. It was a dumb move that is somewhat believable.

Standing around the yard watching it get crushed was some stupid ass shit....I guess they were waiting for a cab and had no car, but still...
 
I have a question about the chemistry.

Are the effects of Ephedrine and Psuedoephedrine roughly the same? Do you think an amphetamine product that was made with Ma Huang alkaloids would be any different from a product make from pseudo? Perhaps trace or significant amounts of other analogs would be present in the final formula changing its effects slightly?

I am just wondering why Walts meth is so special. Its not like making meth is especially difficult....yeah, its a higher grade product, and it has the advantage of not needing psuedo, but it seems like Walt would be entirely replaceable regardless.....maybe not though....but is importing huge tubs of this rare chemical really safer/cheaper/more low pro than importing Chinese herbs?
 
I mean, there was the episode where Walt said he was using a formula that did not need a bunch of sudafed, and they stole a barrell of some alternative substance.

Anyway, recognizing that it is not a "real" explanation, it would still be plausible, within the fiction of the story world, if Walt had come up with an awesome and improved formula for crystal meth that needs a high skill level to produce, but is worth it.

But it is a real explanation. That barell was full of methylamine. One of 2 vital precursors in walt's choice of synthesis route: Phenylacetone (P2P) reduced with methylamine produces methamphetamine. P2P reduction with ammonia yields amphetamine, P2P reduction with methylamine yeilds methamphetamine.

They didn't explain how they got the P2P though. It's a heavily watched precursor.

Again, the route of synthesis doesn't mean anything. If you want a really pure product simply run more purification steps. The route you took to get raw product DOES NOT MATTER.

The advantage of P2P reduction with methylamine over Red Phosphorus/Iodine reduction of pseudoephedrine is: If you have access to P2P and Methylamine (both highly controlled) you don't have to worry about access to pseudoephedrine. That said, in breaking bad they show that they stole the barell of methylamine from a chemical supply warehouse but they never explain where they got the P2P. You can't just go to the local hardware store and buy a bucket of it. It's a DEA list I precursor; like methylamine.

I have a question about the chemistry.

Are the effects of Ephedrine and Psuedoephedrine roughly the same? Do you think an amphetamine product that was made with Ma Huang alkaloids would be any different from a product make from pseudo? Perhaps trace or significant amounts of other analogs would be present in the final formula changing its effects slightly?

Ephedrine crosses the BBB more than pseudo, thus has more effect in it's original form.

As far as meth precursor; they are the same.

Doing an acid-base extraction on Ma Huang is a good way to obtain (pseudo)ephedrine. It would be a good avenue for a small scale producer, seeing as pharmaceutical sources are harder and harder to find.

I suppose it would be good for a large scale producer too if they grew a patch of it.

I am just wondering why Walts meth is so special. Its not like making meth is especially difficult....yeah, its a higher grade product, and it has the advantage of not needing psuedo, but it seems like Walt would be entirely replaceable regardless.....maybe not though....but is importing huge tubs of this rare chemical really safer/cheaper/more low pro than importing Chinese herbs?

Walt's meth isn't special. Anyone with half a chemistry brain realizes to get a higher grade product doesn't require a new synthesis route (or "formula"), it simply requires further purification steps on the raw product from ANY synthesis route.

If they're able to get barrels of P2P and Methylamine, that is a MUCH easier and more lucrative route.

Those chemicals are hard to obtain though. To make the quantity of meth they're making would take a lot of Ma Huang and a lot more work.

Ma Huang is a good source for the small scale enthusiast though.

Anyways, in chemical reality, Walt is entirely replaceable. Making 99% methamphetamine requires maybe a day of research online by someone who previously had no methamphetamine knowledge but had an analytical scientific mind.
 
Has anyone in this thread seen any TV show 100% accurate on any drug? This show has some holes, but they aren't really big holes. Picking apart the show because of how they obtain their precursors is retarded. Its the best drug related series ever created, and you people are bitching about minor details instead of looking at the show as a whole. This show is awesome, though there are some holes in it, who gives a shit. If you don't like it stop watching it, and stop bitching about it. You aren't the only people that see the holes either, but at least they researched the shit to be 99% right. Talk about seeing the glass as less than half empty.

I don't see anything all that odd about hiring 2 skilled chemists to run an industrial sized methamphetamine lab either. Its not like the ridiculous profit margin is going to break the bank. You an also see the incentive for someone who runs a cartel to go with the tried and true chemist vs hiring someone that has the degree, but hasn't proven himself. It's not like Gus knows anything about cooking anyway. Also, P2P is schedule 2.
 
Are there any other psychoactive metabolites that tend to be produced during methamphetamine production? Is there often a mix of amphetamine and methamphetamine? Are there others that would be produced if you were using a full alkaloid extract with Ephedrine and Psuedo at the same time + the other lesser talked about alkaloids?
 
Has anyone in this thread seen any TV show 100% accurate on any drug? This show has some holes, but they aren't really big holes. Picking apart the show because of how they obtain their precursors is retarded. Its the best drug related series ever created, and you people are bitching about minor details instead of looking at the show as a whole. This show is awesome, though there are some holes in it, who gives a shit. If you don't like it stop watching it, and stop bitching about it. You aren't the only people that see the holes either, but at least they researched the shit to be 99% right. Talk about seeing the glass as less than half empty.

I don't see anything all that odd about hiring 2 skilled chemists to run an industrial sized methamphetamine lab either. Its not like the ridiculous profit margin is going to break the bank. You an also see the incentive for someone who runs a cartel to go with the tried and true chemist vs hiring someone that has the degree, but hasn't proven himself. It's not like Gus knows anything about cooking anyway. Also, P2P is schedule 2.

I completely agree; it's work of fiction, don't pick it apart. They do a pretty good job.

From my previous post it seems like I was deconstructing but while I'm watching the show I can just go with the flow. I was just answering questions. I described my position on it in a post on the last page:

Yes, the whole idea that they need Walt because of his "formula" is a bunch of BS. But, IT'S FICTION!!

In fact even if you produce shabby 80% methamphetamine out of the reaction, all you have to do is run more purification steps. It has nothing to do with the route of synthesis. If you want higher purity product just run extra purification steps; simple as that.

This show is about the people and the social dynamics. Leave the physics of meth production out of it.
 
I kind of wonder why Walt doesnt branch out from Meth. He could be inventing chemicals left and right.

Part of me would hate to see him invent new drugs because that would bring unwanted attention to the RC scene, but it would be interesting and consistent with the plot.

Why isnt he making MDMA or synthetic opiates? I bet he could figure out how.
 
I find it funny that they snort meth like cocaine, like Tuco or on the newest episode that Jesses friend saying "I have to try this again man!" yeah like it was some 10s lasting high that you need to snort every 1min. :D

Good that they got back to cooking. I wonder if there really are high qualified chemists synthesizing meth in professional underground labs in USA?

I kind of wonder why Walt doesnt branch out from Meth. He could be inventing chemicals left and right.

Part of me would hate to see him invent new drugs because that would bring unwanted attention to the RC scene, but it would be interesting and consistent with the plot.

Why isnt he making MDMA or synthetic opiates? I bet he could figure out how.

More interesting if he would get into LSD. Also instead of destructive meth he would do something good, and wouldn't feel guilty then. =D
 
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I kind of wonder why Walt doesnt branch out from Meth. He could be inventing chemicals left and right.

Part of me would hate to see him invent new drugs because that would bring unwanted attention to the RC scene, but it would be interesting and consistent with the plot.

Why isnt he making MDMA or synthetic opiates? I bet he could figure out how.

Walt appreciates the chemistry, but he's in this for the money. Him branching off to invent a new drug seems out there at this point since it would take a while to develop enough customers and interest to create a significant enough profit margin. Even if it was really euphoric, amazing drug, it'd take a while to build interest.


Making MDMA or synthetic opiates would be interesting, but isn't he so keen on meth because of the high profit margin from the cost of cooking it to selling it? I suppose it's different now since he doesn't have to worry about getting a supply of chemicals.
 
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There is already a market for many other drugs. If Walt could synthesize heroin without needing any opiates to start with, he could make even more money than he is with meth. If he could make something like cocaine, it would be an instant hit.

But whatever....I see it as wasted potential, but its an awesome show.
 
There is already a market for many other drugs. If Walt could synthesize heroin without needing any opiates to start with, he could make even more money than he is with meth. If he could make something like cocaine, it would be an instant hit.

But whatever....I see it as wasted potential, but its an awesome show.

Of course being able to mimic other drugs would have a good market. That's not what I thought you meant by creating something new. That just seems like branching off into analogues.
 
Yeah I thought you were talking about RCs as well, cause you said inventing.

Either way it wouldn't make much sense where things are at the moment in the story. He's just started to cook meth in massive quantities and he has a boss, he can't just start cooking up whatever the hell he wants.

Latest episode was the best of the season so far, I thought. I don't know how they're going to keep Jesse in the show now though.

NSFW:
The RV is gone, Walt has his own lab. At least there's a chance that Hank is going to be shot in the face, but that's probably just wishful thinking.
 
He's just started to cook meth in massive quantities and he has a boss, he can't just start cooking up whatever the hell he wants.

Sure he can, what about his new partner and "the world's best coffee"? I don't see how it would be a problem, as Gustav said, "You can come and go as you please as long as you meet your quota."

Interesting talk guys, keep it comming
 
I would like to see Walt try his product one day, when the curiosity gnaws away at him....and see him flip out, make some stupid mistakes and/or come to some life changing realizations before deciding to put it away.
 
I do hope he branches of from the meth.. Him making some new RC could actually be interesting because of all the hype that's going on in the RC-scene.

I'm sure Hanks is gonna kill those to bald headed pricks. I hope he does because they're polluting the show. This legend of the Mexican drug hit men has been going on for too long already. It bothers me a lot more then the formula, which I find easy to ignore.
 
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