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Boycott Singapore - Van's unfair sentance

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swifty said:
maddog, I thought you had a little more insight than to compare a drunken rape incident to the wilful tafficking of heroin...
Heh, i really think its a good parallell ... maybe reducing exact cases into abstract systems for 12 years of my professional career has fucked my brain :)

person makes choice to perform action
action has possible negative consequences
negative consequence occurs
DO I DESERVE IT?

it just seems so cut and dry to me ... ?
 
Lawyers for condemned trafficker Nguyen Tuong Van today stepped up the pressure for the Melbourne man to be allowed to hug his mother before his Friday execution in Singapore.

Lex Lasry, QC, also launched a blistering attack on city-state's use of the mandatory death penalty regime as he arrived for a final meeting with Nguyen.

"It shouldn't require a legal loophole for Nguyen to allowed to touch his mother before he goes to the gallows," Mr Lasry said after flying in at 10.30pm local time, (1am AEDT).

"It should simply be a matter of ordinary humanity that Singapore authorities surely must see that they have to be allowed to touch each other," he said.

Amnesty vigil

Amnesty International will hold a candlelight vigil for Nguyen in Melbourne's Federation Square tomorrow evening.

A silent candlelit procession of Nguyen supporters and anti-death penalty campaigners will parade up St Kilda Road at 7.30pm from Federation Square to the Queen Victoria Gardens, opposite the National Gallery of Victoria.

Speakers including Father Peter Hansen, who led a bilingual service for Nguyen at St Patrick's Cathedral earlier this month, will attend.

Candlelight vigils will also take place in Sydney, Adelaide, Melbourne, Perth and Brisbane, and smaller events in Rockhampton, Warwick and Newcastle.

Nguyen's legal team is waiting for a response to their requests.

Barrister Julian McMahon said in Melbourne this morning that Ms Nguyen's right to hug and kiss her son had been denied for years.

Contact denied

"Whether or not Kim is granted the right to touch her son, we must not forget that firstly, she has been denied that right for three years and secondly, that every other mother and family member of every other person on death row in Singapore has been denied that right for many years as each one of their family members went to the gallows," he said.

Mr McMahon flies to Singapore this afternoon to join Mr Lasry for a final meeting with their client.

Foreign Minister Alexander Downer has also joined the call for Kim to have access to her son with a plea to both the Government in Singapore and the high commissioner in Australia.

"Well that is a very significant issue. It's one that I have raised with the Singapore Government and I've made it clear to the high commissioner that he should tell the Singapore Government that I am personally very exercised about this," Mr Downer said yesterday.

"So far the Singapore Government is considering this request. But I would have thought this was not an unreasonable thing for a mother to hug her son before the son in executed."

Nguyen was arrested at Changi Airport in December 2002 carrying almost 400 grams of heroin.

After all appeals for clemency from Canberra have failed, Nguyen faces the gallows at dawn on Friday.

Nguyen, 25, has received a stream of visitors from close family and friends over the past two weeks. Those visits will continue today and tomorrow.

But the condemned man and his mother, Kim Nguyen, and others have been separated by a thick pane of glass in the visiting room, allowing no physical contact.

There has been no word yet from the Singapore authorities whether the restriction will be relaxed in the remaining time before the dawn hanging on Friday.

Singapore unmoved

As the furore over Nguyen's imminent hanging has mounted, Singapore ministers have stuck to the line that Nguyen's punishment fits his crime.

They also argue that the use of mandatory capital punishment helps to keep illegal drugs out of the country.

Mr Lasry held out little hope for his client, who appears to have reconciled himself to his imminent death.

"It's got to be something out of the box, for sure, Mr Lasry said, when asked if it would take a miracle to save Nguyen now."

One of Nguyen's friends who visited yesterday, Kelly Ng, said he was in good spirits and had even made plans for his funeral, in part to save his friends the trouble.

"He just mentioned the songs he wants played (at the funeral)," said Ms Ng.

- AAP with Dewi Cooke...
...
 
maddog, from what I understand of what you're saying is that if girls get drunk, they shouldn't be surprised when they get raped??
 
m4dd0g said:
Heh, i really think its a good parallell ... maybe reducing exact cases into abstract systems for 12 years of my professional career has fucked my brain :)

person makes choice to perform action
action has possible negative consequences
negative consequence occurs
DO I DESERVE IT?

it just seems so cut and dry to me ... ?

As ive been saying, this issue trancends consequences and actions. people on this thread have been trying their hardest to complicate and justify this because somehow deep down in, the death penalty appeals to them.

This issue isnt about rape or girls or being caught.
 
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m4dd0g said:
person makes choice to perform action
action has possible negative consequences
negative consequence occurs
DO I DESERVE IT?

it just seems so cut and dry to me ... ?

chance/possibility are major factors -

Theres a chance that if I pick up the red pen next to my keyboard, and my chair breaks, then pen could slam into my eye causing blindness/death.

Is it likely to occur? no.

Theres a chance that if i get caught smuggling drugs through singapore, i can get the death penalty.

Is it likely to occur? yes.

see how its not "cut and dried"?
 
KB: What is your info source for knowing the odds of smuggling and getting caught ?
Given the drug trade is roaring .. it must be good .. maybe better than not getting raped in buderburg as a solo drunk female (swifty)?
 
Will you two bright sparks just go back and read my post before you comment on it? that might prove handy if you actually wish to prove me wrong.

I never spoke of the chances of getting caught.

I spoke of the chances of the death penalty if i was caught.

and if you'll recall EE, i said very early in this thread the chances of him not getting caught were in his favour - but he took those chances, and he shouldnt be suprised at the consequences for his actions.
 
m4dd0g said:
KB: What is your info source for knowing the odds of smuggling and getting caught ?

Fuck man, can you read?? He didn't say the odds of getting caught, he said the odds of getting the death penalty IF you get caught smuggling drugs through singapore.... 8)

[edit] looks like KB beat me to that one...
 
KB: well duh! :) :)
I dont think he was planning on getting caught but thinking 'naa, they are only joking about the whole hanging thing'

I dont think we're arguing about whether 'he should be suprised by his actions'
I thought we were arguing about 'he deserves it'

Does he (or anyone) deserve to die for bad judgement??
(maybe i'll have 1 answer out of this thread)

btw, im right and you're wrong
 
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^^ m4dd0g. To be honest it really dosnt matter. All this is just a deterant from the real issue of the universal nasty that is the death penalty.
 
m4dd0g said:
Given the drug trade is roaring .. it must be good .. maybe better than not getting raped in buderburg as a solo drunk female (swifty)?

as an aside: the difference is choice.

Van was aware that his actions would be a direct result on his life.

This girl, however silly you wish to label her for the heinous crime of getting drunk in a pub (how dare she?!) - was not aware of the scum in the pub and therefore her drunken state indirectly resulted in a rape.

Nobody plans on getting caught. But when you do, you must accept who's responsible and accept the punishment for your actions.

Life isnt always going to be able to make exceptions to the rule because you are a unique snowflake.
 
Nobody plans on getting caught. But when you do, you must accept who's responsible and accept the punishment for your actions.

That is such a dry, black and white and utterly programed response that has absolutly no place in the case like this. Are you forgetting the hypocracy involved? We are trying to set a good example for future generations. State sanctioned killing is only reminding us of our nasty potential to inflict harm on others. Its not justice.
 
him being hanged is setting a good future for future generations.

Darwinism is great!

but i suppose watching someone slowly die in a prison cell for the rest pf their life is far more humane than a quick death.
 
I have an idea.

Lets all stop arguing about details and just agree that we'll never sway the opinion of anyone else in this thread.

We are just arguing logic vs compassion.

I'm sure everyone understands each others point of view and reiterating it 15 times each is just getting frustrating and boring.

electreauxbella: It's oddly comforting that you can't see where keystroke insulted silvia saint because it shows you don't even read your boyfriend's posts properly.

-------

In more important news... the thought of not being allowed to touch anyone you love before you die is horrific and sadistic. I'm sure the guards could properly monitor an embrace to ensure nothing was passed from mother to son. I can't comprehend how any human being would see this as an acceptable security measure.
 
so dodgy, but hey.. in memory of diego ;-)

vantrong1rl.jpg
 
KemicalBurn said:
Life isnt always going to be able to make exceptions to the rule 'cause you are just a unique snowflake.
Because not enough people fight for it :(

Direct versus indirect ... isn't this still just odds?
I thought Van didnt even know his plane was stopping in Singapore ... or did I dream that?

This is all distraction really

... a guy is going to die because he made a bad gamble and lost :(
Its not like he went parachuting or took dodgey pills; there are humans that choose to kill him :( :(
 
The Death Penalty is an issue here...I do oppose the death penalty but not in all instances...every case MUST be judged individually and you cannot just classify any case within certain parameters without taking into account the underlying factors and mitigating circumstances.

In Vans case this is clearly a case off 'using him purely as an example' there is sufficient cause here to give the guy clemency...these being most importantly

1. his first conviction (most important aspect)
2. His youth and stupidity ties into the fact number 1

Because Singapore chooses to go ahead with it and execute him this way, that makes their law in this case wrong. Anyone believing he should be executed I can only hypothesis...is not seeing the picture for what it really is, a punishment that DOES NOT fit the crime and that in my mind makes you socially unaware and emotionally challenged!
 
m4dd0g said:
I thought Van didnt even know his plane was stopping in Singapore ... or did I dream that?


when you check in at an international airport counter, if you have a stop-over anywhere, they have it written on both the ticket and in huge fucking letters before you step on the plane. saying he didn't know it was stopping in singapore is just as stupid as his choice to try and get the drugs through in the first place.
 
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