being happy and content

[Enlitx]

Life is always a two way biofeedback and not one way street! They are interelated!

While this is true most of the time, certain enzyme/chemical deficiencies will never be cured by trying to change your thought pattern. If a critical metabolic step is not functioning, no amount of happy thoughts will save you. This is true for people with dopamine disorders that cannot feel joy until they are cured of their illness by direct chemical intervention.

 

[Enlitx]

Deseases also occur for many other reasons, this is why Medical Practitioners have been also using Alternative Medicine in combination these days more and more.

Have any numbers to back that up? Doctors will always tell you to live a healthy lifestyle and cultivate good relationships, but that isn't Alternative Medicine. If by alternative medicine you mean rebalancing your "chakra" or chi or whatever other far out stuff there is, I don't think most doctors would give that a second look.

Hmm, my knowledge is not to be desplayed here, on a happiness thread!

You are trying to prove a point but purposely not displaying your knowledge on the subject? That is of counter productive.

We had pharmaceautical companies, coming to the clinic and pushing their newest drugs to be pushed forward, and gave enormous amounts of royalties and many other benefirs, in order to do that, even expensive overseas trips. I am not sure if working with 16 medical preactitioners and having a background in it, whether I know or not that I am also a chemical factory.

I agree that there needs to be reforms, but all medicine must be tested and proved effective before it can even be pushed by reps. Certain meds are overprescribed, but that doesen't mean that Western Medicine doesen't have the answers.

Unfortunately you dismiss everything else and that includes the person in a human body....besides the chemistry.
I rather be considered in kinder garden, but I would definately not want you as a teacher in it.
There is a book by the way, called "Everything I need to know I learned in kindergarden".
Insults display your ignorance of where the person comes from. Don't take their different views as a proof of your imagining ignorance! When I am in a theosophical debate, I rather speak from the part of being in kindergarden if that is how you like to classify people.

Person "in" the human body? What does that mean? Everything has suggested you are your human body. Look up Phenias Gage if you need a primer.

I don't think I could teach you anyways . And really, if you think everything you need to know is from an age period a decade away from full brain maturation, there isn't much hope for you. And the last part of your post is very hard to understand, was grammar part of "Everything you need to know in kindergarten"? %)

 

[Enlitx]

What people are forgetting about pharmaceutical companies is that they can't just come up with a drug and push it on the population. There must be peer reviewed studies that indicate its effectiveness. Overprescribing may be a problem, but call it for what it is, don't take down the whole system of medicine because of one shortcoming.

And if you notice most drugs that are overprescribed are ones that deal with complicated issues like depression and ADD. This is because although the drugs may not cure the problem they often help in varying degrees. That way drug companies can justify pushing it on people (it does help) and doctors can justify prescribing it, since it ultimately will help to some degree. The question then becomes are the side effects worth it, but that is up to you and your doctor to decide. No one can make you take a drug.

 

[LivingInTheMoment]

We had pharmaceautical companies, coming to the clinic and pushing their newest drugs to be pushed forward, and gave enormous amounts of royalties and many other benefirs, in order to do that, even expensive overseas trips. I am not sure if working with 16 medical preactitioners and having a background in it, whether I know or not that I am also a chemical factory. Unfortunately you dismiss everything else and that includes the person in a human body....besides the chemistry.
QUOTE]

Therein lies the truth...The 'kickback' in the Medical Profession is unconscionable. I use the term "Profession'' loosely, it's a business. They want you to need the drugs, they don't do well if you have 'peace of mind'.
Your emotions and intellect control your physical disposition. There 'are' predisposed cases of illness and 'dis-ease', but that's another topic. The World has deferred responsibilty for personal well-being to a bunch of money hungry suits. (and try spell check, it will improve your credibility)

Thank you for your post, something I can relate to!
As in regards to the spell check, unfortunately, though an excellent idea placing it here, it does not work! All it says when I click it, it informs me that it is a spell check! Figure that one out! English is a second language, I apologize for the errors in spelling, but also at times I have to hurry with the internet and press the wrong keys in a hurry! When I see the errors I correct them when I can.
I sure hope that what one says gives them credibility, in here, since there are many reasons as to why misspellings occur! Thank you for mentioning it though!

 

[LivingInTheMoment]

What people are forgetting about pharmaceutical companies is that they can't just come up with a drug and push it on the population. There must be peer reviewed studies that indicate its effectiveness. Overprescribing may be a problem, but call it for what it is, don't take down the whole system of medicine because of one shortcoming.

And if you notice most drugs that are overprescribed are ones that deal with complicated issues like depression and ADD. This is because although the drugs may not cure the problem they often help in varying degrees. That way drug companies can justify pushing it on people (it does help) and doctors can justify prescribing it, since it ultimately will help to some degree. The question then becomes are the side effects worth it, but that is up to you and your doctor to decide. No one can make you take a drug.

No one can make you take a drug, but when people have so much faith on the Medical Profession for answers to their discontent, they swallow them without a second thought!
...and yes, many have various side affects which their doctor tells them their system has to get used to it, to continue taking it, until the first side affects subside! As I see it, their bodies alter with the continuation.

 

[MyDoorsAreOpen]

My main gripe with pharmaceutical companies is not the chemicals they develop and sell, but the brands they push. Often these companies will insignificantly modify a drug or combo, and then repackage it with a new name, new patent, new target market, and new high price. It will bring me great joy to tell patients they can get the same relief as in the ad they just saw, from a no-name cheapo product with virtually the same ingredients that's been around for years.

It's just like with food shopping. If you're uninformed or have low education, a flavor / drug effect equals a brand. Drug companies in the US, by having the wide advertising privileges they enjoy here, prey upon those who have the least to spend on their own health, and that's an injustice.

Enlitx, you make a good point about antidepressants being important and helpful. From the people I've known, they've reduced a lot of suffering. But if only the public knew that they're inherently hit-or-miss, and come with as much risk of harm as illegal drugs people take to enhance their mood. MUCH more work needs to be done in this area, and I doubt we'll ever devise a drug, prescribed or proscribed, that could lift absolutely anyone's chin in the long run.

 

[MynameisnotDeja]

This is because although the drugs may not cure the problem they often help in varying degrees.

Yay! I helped my depression and now I only have these 10 other horrible side effects to deal with! FUN! :D lol I know no one can "make" anyone take a drug, the problem is a lot of people don't educate themselves and just blindly trust whatever their doctors tell them.

I realize my case is not the same as everyone elses, but if I had trusted my doctors, I'd be dead now.

 

[L2R]

^i can relate.

a few years back in the midst of a long depression i was prescribed a couple of different antidepressents. they helped in only they made me feel significantly worse and zombified making me appreciate what i had without them!

 

[LivingInTheMoment]

>but that isn't Alternative Medicine. If by alternative medicine you mean rebalancing your "chakra" or chi or whatever other far out stuff there is,

I don't think most doctors would give that a second look. [/B]
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Holistic Medical Practitioners and Integrative Medicine!


http://www.holistic.com/holistic/learning.nsf/0/8507b31467bfa9df872569f3007eefbe?OpenDocument

http://www.holisticmedicine.org/

http://www.boulderholisticmedicalcenter.com/

http://www.drkokayi.com/

http://www.bhma.org/new_site/journal.php


“The natural model believes that all parts of the body are interrelated in ways that are so complex, so sophisticated, so elegantly orchestrated and exquisitely tuned, that all medical technology has only the crudest, faintest understanding of just a few basic mechanisms.”

The Natural (Holistic) Model of Today
The Natural medical model has the advantage today of using highly scientific, exacting and sophisticated tests to define the underlying source of illness and disorder within the body. Rebalancing is the goal and as rebalancing begins symptoms of dis-ease begin to disappear. The Natural model treats the whole person and the resolution of the pain suffered by their patient is as important as identifying and treating any pain generating conditions and any underlying conditions.

There are numerous natural products and treatment modalities used to treat pain – natural products that do not have the side effects of powerful chemical drugs, and are as effective, or more so, at pain control as any man-made drug. Back and neck pain patients can expect their pain, pain causing condition, AND any underlying metabolic imbalance will be effectively, and naturally treated.

It employs methods, which are gentle, and slow acting, working to support the natural, inborn systems of the body instead of arrogantly overpowering them. They work to detoxify and rebalance the body’s systems, on the cellular level, support cell nutrition, using whole food vitamins, minerals, enzymes, live foods, selected herbs and other forms of supplements. In this way the dis-ease condition is naturally, gradually rejected and not allowed to co-exist in a healing biological environment



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


>It is obstinence that runs you, I see all the others having too much patience with your obstinence, but I don't, sorry, this is my last response! Obstinacy is so darn tiresome! I will just seat and observe them fellows tear you with your fixated one sided logical equations, but wisdom is the key!

 

[Heuristic]

Well, let's hold on.

Yes, a patient who sees a commercial on television about a medication, and asks her doctor about it, does not have enough information to know whether she needs it or should take it. But the doctor does. That's why we train doctors, that's why we license them, and that's why we require prescriptions for these medications.

Pharmaceuticals advertise in this context of regulation.

Regarding the efficacy and safety of FDA approved anti-depressants versus illicit drugs... I completely disagree with the poster who said that they come with as much risk and harm as illicit drugs used as mood enhancers. Since he sounds like a MS, I'm sure he already knows why.

I also disagree with the implication of the statement that they are "hit or miss," which to me implies a nearly equal chance of them working or not working, based completely on luck. They don't get approved unless they work significantly better than a placebo.

I'm beginning to sound very disagreeable. So, I also think it's great that we're all talking about this, and I'm enjoying the discussion.

 

[Enlitx]

No one can make you take a drug, but when people have so much faith on the Medical Profession for answers to their discontent, they swallow them without a second thought!
...and yes, many have various side affects which their doctor tells them their system has to get used to it, to continue taking it, until the first side affects subside! As I see it, their bodies alter with the continuation.

Well who are you going to put your faith in if not the people who went to school for 8 years? Sometimes side effects occur, and that is when it is up to you to decide if the medicine is worth it.

 

[Enlitx]

Yay! I helped my depression and now I only have these 10 other horrible side effects to deal with! FUN! :D lol I know no one can "make" anyone take a drug, the problem is a lot of people don't educate themselves and just blindly trust whatever their doctors tell them.

I realize my case is not the same as everyone elses, but if I had trusted my doctors, I'd be dead now.

Most people don't experience any major side effects.

 

[Enlitx]

“The natural model believes that all parts of the body are interrelated in ways that are so complex, so sophisticated, so elegantly orchestrated and exquisitely tuned, that all medical technology has only the crudest, faintest understanding of just a few basic mechanisms.”

The Natural (Holistic) Model of Today
The Natural medical model has the advantage today of using highly scientific, exacting and sophisticated tests to define the underlying source of illness and disorder within the body. Rebalancing is the goal and as rebalancing begins symptoms of dis-ease begin to disappear. The Natural model treats the whole person and the resolution of the pain suffered by their patient is as important as identifying and treating any pain generating conditions and any underlying conditions.

There are numerous natural products and treatment modalities used to treat pain – natural products that do not have the side effects of powerful chemical drugs, and are as effective, or more so, at pain control as any man-made drug. Back and neck pain patients can expect their pain, pain causing condition, AND any underlying metabolic imbalance will be effectively, and naturally treated.

It employs methods, which are gentle, and slow acting, working to support the natural, inborn systems of the body instead of arrogantly overpowering them. They work to detoxify and rebalance the body’s systems, on the cellular level, support cell nutrition, using whole food vitamins, minerals, enzymes, live foods, selected herbs and other forms of supplements. In this way the dis-ease condition is naturally, gradually rejected and not allowed to co-exist in a healing biological environment

Those links didn't give me any numbers on the actual number of practitioners here in the U.S. As far as descriptions you posted, I am not impressed.

Do you know what happens when scientists find herbs that might help an ailment? They isolate the active chemical, modify it in all kinds of ways, and find the most effective chemical for alleviating certain diseases. This is how salicylic acid was found and eventually converted into tylenol, and the same with morphine. Then they must actually run test after test on the pure molecule to show it is safe and effective. Using whole herbs welcomes unwanted side effects and complications. To suggest that some doctor using and unproven herb is somehow better than Western Medicine is ridiculous.

"In this way the dis-ease condition is naturally, gradually rejected and not allowed to co-exist in a healing biological environment"

There are so many things wrong with this statement I don't know where to begin.

>It is obstinence that runs you, I see all the others having too much patience with your obstinence, but I don't, sorry, this is my last response! Obstinacy is so darn tiresome! I will just seat and observe them fellows tear you with your fixated one sided logical equations, but wisdom is the key!

See ya later.

 

[MynameisnotDeja]

But the doctor does. That's why we train doctors, that's why we license them, and that's why we require prescriptions for these medications.

Well, that would be true in a perfect world. But as a 12 year old child, I had my medically trained doctor prescribe me zoloft simply because I was sad. Zoloft was later shown to be dangerous for children under the age of 18! Studies have proven that in increases suicidal thoughts and other negative behaviors and now they NO LONGER PRESCRIBE it to children. I attempted suicide so many fucking times when I was on these pills. This ruined my entire teenage years. My high school life was spent either drugged into a daze with the pills they gave me to "take care of the bad effects from the zoloft" OR, completely cracked out and out of control from the zoloft itself. I'm lucky to be alive after how fucked up I was.

AND now they say that its not good for children???? WHERE was this testing before they gave it to me?!

Just the fact that they can come out and later on say "Oh guess what we found out something about this isn't good" shows that enough testing on these substances is NOT being done before they are given to the general public. Haven't you seen those ads on tv, telling people if they've been hurt by this or that drug, to call because there are law suits?

Does anyone else think this should not be happening?

Most people don't experience any major side effects.

What is your source for this info? Almost everyone I've talked to who has been on these drugs had major side effects!

Using whole herbs welcomes unwanted side effects and complications.

I do respect some of what you have to say but this blanket statement is total crap, no offense. Yes I'm sure some herbs could be poisonous or harmful. But this is just purely not true at all in a general sense.

 

[Heuristic]

^ I'm sorry you went through those experiences.

And you're right. Sometimes safety testing misses something. In the case of SSRIs and children, it was found that an antidepressant can increase the risk of suicide.

More specifically, for every 1000 cases in the FDA's pool of studies, there were 14 additional cases of suicidal behavior in minor patients being treated with one of the studied SSRIs over placebo.

That said, the label is a warning about the increased risk; it's not a ban. The odds of this happening are still quite small, while the odds of the medication helping are quite large.

In your particular case, we'd have to take the small probability of the medication having this side-effect, and weigh it against other explanations for why your experiences from age 12 to 20 (?) were so bad. I would not be so quick to ascribe your behavior to the SSRI. That's NOT to diminish the difficulty of what you went through.

But, these drugs are still subject to rigorous safety testing, and, obviously, to ongoing monitoring. Unfortunately, so-called natural herbal supplements are not. We don't have an herbal supplement with the record of efficacy that SSRIs have in treating various psychological conditions.

We have found that various "natural" remedies such as exercise, cognitive therapy, etc., can be quite effective too, though; and these treatments are wholeheartedly endorsed by Western medicine. It's not as though Western medicine is biased against the use of non-synthetic medications; but Western medicine does insist on scientific evidence of the efficacy and safety of any proposed treatment. And that makes us all safer, and better, even while we may still miss some things.

It's somewhat ironic that on the one hand, we have complaints that Western medicine wants to over-medicate the population, isn't rigorous enough about safety, etc., and then on the other hand, we have complaints that Western medicine is too restrictive about medication, too squeamish about risk, etc.

 

[L2R]

at the risk of being unpopular p), i'd say an established "rights of passage" process desperately needs to be developed for the 1st world, including (but not limited to), scarification and guided psychoactive exploration.

aside from sports development, all we have in our culture to develop our minds for adulthood at the moment is the santa clause disappointment, but on its own it is not enough.

we're spoiled rotten as it is, and the less experience with pain (for the lack of a better word) we have in our developing, the more emotional and psychological problems result, since we are not accutely aware of ourselves and our limitations.

as it stands, our society focuses more on stagnant comfort (to the point of being drugged by it)than on quality of life. had we known how to live properly, i doubt many of these problems would exist.

imho of course.

 

[MynameisnotDeja]

^Absolutely, I couldn't agree more.

 

[MyDoorsAreOpen]

LivingInTheMoment and Entlix, you're both sort of right, but you each only have half the story.

Herbs can be thought of as crude drugs. There are documented cases of some of them working better than refined or synthetic drugs for a treating certain symptoms. This is because some compounds exert their effects better when accompanied and complemented by the other compounds that always naturally occur along with them. Think of it as like analog vs. digital sound media. Then again, sometimes one isolated chemical from a natural source -- or a synthetic analog based on it structurally -- will have the more helpful effect on the body.

What makes herbal drugs so infuriating to many Western doctors is that there are too many variables to keep track of, making the prediction of the effects of any given preparation on any given patient frustratingly hard. Western medicine doesn't really cotton to this degree of multivariate unpredictability. In this system, predictability of effects is a priority, because this makes the whole system more efficient, and less error prone, for serving a large population.

So the bottom line is, yes, herbal remedies work. Almost anything you introduce into a relatively closed, unitary and holistic system (the body in this case), will exert SOME kind of change, no matter how imperceptible. But in doing so you're taking a chance, with odds of efficacy harder to assess than modern Western medicine. It's possible you'll hit upon something just right, getting consistent batches of the herbal drug, whose preparation is ideally suited to changing your physiology exactly the way you seek, with far fewer side effects than any comparable pill promising similar results. But then again maybe you won't. You've got to be willing to go out on a limb, be willing to be the guinea pig a bit more, with herbal remedies and other supplements.

 

[Enlitx]

What is your source for this info? Almost everyone I've talked to who has been on these drugs had major side effects!


I do respect some of what you have to say but this blanket statement is total crap, no offense. Yes I'm sure some herbs could be poisonous or harmful. But this is just purely not true at all in a general sense.

If you look at most studies on drugs the percentage of test subjects who experienced major side effects is almost always in the minority.

Total crap? When you use herbs you are doing so to gain the effect of the active alkaloid, or mixture of alkaloids. Herbs contain many many different chemicals though, and the possibility for complication rises dramatically when you introduce that many chemicals. I am not saying there is always complication, what I said was that it welcomes complication.

 

[Enlitx]

LivingInTheMoment and Entlix, you're both sort of right, but you each only have half the story.

Herbs can be thought of as crude drugs. There are documented cases of some of them working better than refined or synthetic drugs for a treating certain symptoms. This is because some compounds exert their effects better when accompanied and complemented by the other compounds that always naturally occur along with them. Think of it as like analog vs. digital sound media. Then again, sometimes one isolated chemical from a natural source -- or a synthetic analog based on it structurally -- will have the more helpful effect on the body.

What makes herbal drugs so infuriating to many Western doctors is that there are too many variables to keep track of, making the prediction of the effects of any given preparation on any given patient frustratingly hard. Western medicine doesn't really cotton to this degree of multivariate unpredictability. In this system, predictability of effects is a priority, because this makes the whole system more efficient, and less error prone, for serving a large population.

So the bottom line is, yes, herbal remedies work. Almost anything you introduce into a relatively closed, unitary and holistic system (the body in this case), will exert SOME kind of change, no matter how imperceptible. But in doing so you're taking a chance, with odds of efficacy harder to assess than modern Western medicine. It's possible you'll hit upon something just right, getting consistent batches of the herbal drug, whose preparation is ideally suited to changing your physiology exactly the way you seek, with far fewer side effects than any comparable pill promising similar results. But then again maybe you won't. You've got to be willing to go out on a limb, be willing to be the guinea pig a bit more, with herbal remedies and other supplements.

How was I half right? I know that some herbs exert positive beneifts on patients. What I also know is that it is more productive to isolate the desired chemical(s) and run assays as to determine what in the herb is effective and exactly how it is effective. This approach is what has led us to all our useful derivatives, and has allowed for endless studies into the mechanism of action.

It is always better to determine exactly what is interacting with the body and run tests to maximize efficacy. If an herb performs better because it has a mixture of chemicals, it is stupid to just stop there, isolate all of the chemicals and try mixing them together in various quantities and you can reproduce the effect with much more control. It is really a question of just how well you want the medicine to work.