being happy and content

[Enlitx]

Then I realized happiness was a choice. And changed my entire life.
I haven't been on any medication for 8 years now. All because I changed the way I thought.

I don't agree that happiness is just a choice. Sure, CBT therapy can help you produce healthy thoughts, and it is an integral part of recovery, but some people can not simply choose to be happy. A depressed person cannot just wake up one day and say, "Gee, I don't think I will be depressed anymore".
Some people need medication and most people need CBT therapy. Clinical depression is an actual chemical deficiency, not an issue of making the wrong choice.

I don't know your situation, but I don't even think you can say that you just decided to be happy. Who is to say that your brain didn't start producing more monoamines on its own, thus making you decide to be happy? There is no way you could know what the casual realtionship was. There are plenty of other factors too that might have influenced your recovery.

 

[Enlitx]

Lack of love and healthy attention, and how they have dealed with this in their formative years-as a compensation to this lack-is one of the strong reasons why they have ended in depression to start with. ..and as someone else said, depression is lack of health.

That is an extremely broad assertion that is only valid in some cases. There are all kinds of other reasons people could end up with depression, including random mutations in DNA that codes for an enzyme that produces catecholamines, thus causing it to malfunction.

People who grew with enough love in their life and the emotional essentials, grew a healthier structure and hence the chemicals in their bodies depend on that too. Not always, but you seem to see people as chemical manufacturing factories, emotions as the basis does not equate in your biochemical vocabulary, or how you view people's misery formation. What pathways are blocked depends on that basis alot of the time. Repression and compensation release different kind of chemicals in the system. Not always the case and heredity plays role and genetics but not always.

I don't know what you mean by grew a healthier structure. People are chemical manufacturing/manipulation bodies if biology and chemistry have taught us anything in the last 200 years.

The last part was pretty confusing, could you write it a little more clearly?

 

[MynameisnotDeja]

I don't agree that happiness is just a choice. Sure, CBT therapy can help you produce healthy thoughts, and it is an integral part of recovery, but some people can not simply choose to be happy. A depressed person cannot just wake up one day and say, "Gee, I don't think I will be depressed anymore".
Some people need medication and most people need CBT therapy. Clinical depression is an actual chemical deficiency, not an issue of making the wrong choice.

I don't know your situation, but I don't even think you can say that you just decided to be happy. Who is to say that your brain didn't start producing more monoamines on its own, thus making you decide to be happy? There is no way you could know what the casual realtionship was. There are plenty of other factors too that might have influenced your recovery.

No one needs medication, I completely disagree with that. Medication is a crutch that some people CHOOSE to use if they feel that using a crutch is all right for them. I'm not judging it, but human beings don't NEED it. People lived for a long time on this earth without prozac. All these "disorders" are a symptom of a seriously messed up society that is out of balance with the earth. Western medicine is so screwed up. It does nothing but treat the symptom instead of looking how what sort of disaster our out of whack society is creating.

I know my success story means nothing to people, because they don't WANT to believe it. It's a similar mentality to people who say that drug addicts can't just "choose to quit". I quit everything I ever had a problem with, cold turkey, without rehab. People would tell me "it can't be done". And when I DID IT, they come back with "Well then I guess you weren't an addict".

I WAS depressed. I was about as depressed as they get. As I said I had many suicide attempts and there was a period of time I lost the will to eat and basically just stopped, people thought I was anorexic but it was just that I didn't care to live anymore. I spent days in tears, literally ALL day. I did have a chemical imbalance, at the time. These "chemical imbalances" are either caused by an emotional problem (usually because of some un-resolved issue) or an imbalance in the body (people don't eat right, people don't exercise, etc). Drugging these emotional symptoms away is severely dangerous, as it does nothing to address the actual cause of the imbalance. I find it very, very sad that people fall victim to this sort of quick fix mentality.

 

[Sturnam]

Well, the medication issue is complicated. I agree that it is a quick fix and that CBT, life changes, exercise, more social contact, etc. could fix 90% of the problems, I also think that there's a small portion of people that simply are unable to fix it without some medication.

The problem is that modern medicine has extended its reach beyond those who truly need it to those who have had a few depressed weeks. I can understand the disillusionment with western medicine, but it's also important to recognize that it has made important advances.

Originally I wanted to say that I agreed with sunburn's earlier point about being unhappy leading to growth. It made me think of the line from Little Miss Sunshine:

Anyway, he uh... he gets down to the end of his life, and he looks back and decides that all those years he suffered, Those were the best years of his life, 'cause they made him who he was. All those years he was happy? You know, total waste. Didn't learn a thing.

But then I realized that I don't think I completely agree with this. For instance, you can have lots of personal growth through the exploration of a new (or revitalized) love, but I would say that is one the highest points of happiness. In fact, I think a lot of new growth can happen with happiness as well as suffering, but that suffering is a stronger catalyst, and will motivate us more to change what is wrong.

 

[MynameisnotDeja]

Personal growth comes from experiences, doesn't matter if they seem "bad" or "good". The key is just finding meaning and growing from everything that you experience.

 

[Enlitx]

No one needs medication, I completely disagree with that. Medication is a crutch that some people CHOOSE to use if they feel that using a crutch is all right for them. I'm not judging it, but human beings don't NEED it. People lived for a long time on this earth without prozac. All these "disorders" are a symptom of a seriously messed up society that is out of balance with the earth. Western medicine is so screwed up. It does nothing but treat the symptom instead of looking how what sort of disaster our out of whack society is creating.

Well according to that logic a person wouldn't need antiobiotics because humans didn't need them before, even if the person was going to die from a bacterial infection. You cannot possibly say all of these disorders are because this society is out of touch with earth. Many disorders have been around forever, they just used to be labeled as religious or spiritual problems because people didn't know. I suppose you think going back to a hunter-gatherer society would suddenly fix all of the problems?

I know my success story means nothing to people, because they don't WANT to believe it. It's a similar mentality to people who say that drug addicts can't just "choose to quit". I quit everything I ever had a problem with, cold turkey, without rehab. People would tell me "it can't be done". And when I DID IT, they come back with "Well then I guess you weren't an addict".

I am not doubting you didn't use drugs to get out of your depression. What I am doubting is that you understand what it was that made you happy. There was no reliable way for you to figure out exactly what caused the lifting of the depression, and that is why large double blind studies must be performed to determine what is an effectual treatment. It is dangerous and irresponsible to go around telling other people they don't need medicine for a disease that could cause them to harm themselves when you are not remotely qualified to make such a call.

I WAS depressed. I was about as depressed as they get. As I said I had many suicide attempts and there was a period of time I lost the will to eat and basically just stopped, people thought I was anorexic but it was just that I didn't care to live anymore. I spent days in tears, literally ALL day. I did have a chemical imbalance, at the time. These "chemical imbalances" are either caused by an emotional problem (usually because of some un-resolved issue) or an imbalance in the body (people don't eat right, people don't exercise, etc). Drugging these emotional symptoms away is severely dangerous, as it does nothing to address the actual cause of the imbalance. I find it very, very sad that people fall victim to this sort of quick fix mentality.

Chemical imbalances can be caused by so many more things than simply not eating, excercising, or emotional problems. Like I have stated, you could have a mutation in a key enzyme that converts amino acids to catecholamines, there could be problems with your DAT transporters, etc...

What is severely dangerous is handing out medical advice when you clearly don't have a good understanding of how physiology works. There is a reason Western Medicine has prevailed, and it isn't because of a conspiracy to make money. Not trying to be mean, but someone could seriously be harmed because of your ill informed post.

 

[MynameisnotDeja]

It is dangerous and irresponsible to go around telling other people they don't need medicine for a disease that could cause them to harm themselves when you are not remotely qualified to make such a call.

I don't believe it is a disease, that's where we differ.

What is severely dangerous is handing out medical advice when you clearly don't have a good understanding of how physiology works. There is a reason Western Medicine has prevailed, and it isn't because of a conspiracy to make money. Not trying to be mean, but someone could seriously be harmed because of your ill informed post.

Western Medicine hasn't prevailed. And it is a conspiracy to make money, anyone can see that. They wouldn't be advertising all these dangerous drugs on television if not to make money. What the hell else is advertising for???

And I have the right to push my ideas as much as the next guy. It's no more wrong for me to express what I think to be right than it is for anyone else. We all have our own ideas of wisdom, and we all can share them freely. We all each have the free will and the ability to be personally responsible for ourselves. No one can be "harmed by" what I have to say, they can only be harmed by their own choices. No one is responsible for anyone elses choices, no matter what they say, and no one has to listen to me if they don't want to. I will never stop sharing what I believe to be true in the attempt to help other people. Someone did that for me and that is what originally got me off of the medication.

 

[Sturnam]

^ I was actually interested in asking you what happened that made you decide to do something about it, and to stop medication. Care to share?

Lately I feel like my life has become somewhat stagnant, and at times I think I really like it and I'm happy that way, and I wasn't made to be an adrenalin junky. Other times I really want to do something crazy, but somewhat lack in creativity. Any creative outlets for me (music, writing, etc) I've never been especially good at, and generally lose interest with quickly.

As a side note, I should say that I recently fell in love with the most amazing girl, and for the first month or so I was always coming up with creative, sweet things to send her. I've also noticed that this imaginative ability has decreased in the past few weeks.

Any suggestions for simple suggestions for getting the excitement back in life? I'm not needing to go live in another country for a month or so, just small projects/activities would suffice. I really liked that period, it was one of the happiest of my life. Maybe it's just due to finals and being sick? But I feel like I just need new ideas.

 

[MynameisnotDeja]

Well, the medication made me feel terrible, for one. But I was afraid to go off it for fear of what might happen. I went off it once and got horribly depressed again and tried to commit suicide, and then I went back on and was afraid to go off it, but the second time I went back on it caused me to break out in a rash all over my body. I was just so sick of putting these toxic pills into my body and feeling like a prisoner. I wasn't free, I always had to worry about getting my medication. Once, I went to visit a long-distance boyfriend for 4 days and forgot my pills and I couldn't enjoy the trip because by the third day I started getting really sick without my pills. I felt like I was living on a chain. I don't like the way depending on those pills made me feel, it made me feel scared, like if something happened to make it so I couldn't get them, that would be it for my life. I felt out of control and it was upsetting.

All this was going on when I was first getting to know my ex fiance, who also was one of my biggest mentors, spiritual teachers, and catalysts in all the changes I made in my early adult life (we were together from age 18-22). He saw my struggle up close and personal every day, and he was the first to tell me straight up that these pills were bullshit. He was my hero at the time and I trusted him, he's a very special and awake person.

See, I told him I was so scared to go off the medicine because the monster would come back, the monster, the nightmare that was my depression. My depression was so bad I couldn't function when it was there. I'd lost jobs because of it and stuff, among other things, and I was just in fear of what might happen if I went off the meds. Wll, it was then that he gave me the life changing wisdom which changed my mind forever...he said:

"Your depression is not an IT. Meaning, it is not a "thing" unto itself, which lurks in the shadows waiting to harm you. It's not a monster, it's not a sickness, it's nothing. You are giving it this power by fearing it and therefore keeping yourself in the state of imbalance. It's a self fulfilling prophecy. So stop giving it power, because "it" doesn't exist. There's only you."

^For some reason, the way he put that just flipped a switch in me. I stopped segmenting off this "thing" within my mind and realized that I AM IN CONTROL of my mind. This moment was one of the major turning points in my life, the realization that I am in control of me. I am in control of what I do, but more importantly I am in control of the WAY I THINK.

I'm not sure how to suggest to get the excitement back, only you know that, because only you know what you find exciting. I never really get bored, because there are too many things I want to do, see, and experience in life! So, what sort of things make you feel inspired, passionate and interested?

 

[jam uh weezy]

well said mdao. you worded what i was aiming for much better.

 

[Heuristic]

Hmmmm... well there are any number of well done studies that have been performed on the concept of "happiness" and what produces it. Two very good discussions of the field generally are

http://www.amazon.com/Happier-Can-Y...d_bbs_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1241389628&sr=8-3

And

http://www.amazon.com/Authentic-Hap...Fulfillment/dp/0743222989/ref=pd_bxgy_b_img_c

Regarding the debate on thoughts and medication:

It depends on the severity and nature of the mental illness in question. Moderate depression does respond well to cognitive therapy, perhaps better than the relief provided by medications. Severe depression tends to require more than cognitive therapy. Likewise schizophrenia. Panic and other anxiety disorders can be treated with cognitive therapy effectively, but, especially in the short-term, medication can be very useful. Schizophrenia and other psychoses are another ball-game.

Completely disagree with the notion that Western medicine is a scam. Western medicine discovered celiac disease, and discovered effective treatments for it. Bubonic plague? Killed 30% of Europe? We can treat that now with conventional antibiotics. Polio? Smallpox? Sometimes we forget just how fragile life was prior to the 20th century, and how fragile it is for many people today who are beyond the reach of modern medicine.

Also completely disagree with the notion that 99% of the world chooses to be miserable or suffer. On the contrary, I'd say most of the world live fairly happy lives.

 

[MynameisnotDeja]

I don't mean that all knowledge within western medicine is a scam, of course not, I didn't put that right, and Im sorry.

I mean that the pharm industry is somewhat corrupted in that they do PUSH all these new medications they come up with. They do. Like I said, they wouldn't be advertising this shit on television if they weren't trying to make money. They would simply create the medications in the hopes of helping people and trust the doctors to offer it to patients who they felt truly needed it.

Don't you think?

Seeing these ads on television disgusts me. These pills should be a last resort and these bullshit filled commercials (usually showing beautiful, healthy looking people prancing around in fields of flowers or something equally unrealistic and enticing) push people into wanting that quick fix instead of actually getting healthy.

Western medicine discovered celiac disease, and discovered effective treatments for it. Bubonic plague? Killed 30% of Europe? We can treat that now with conventional antibiotics. Polio? Smallpox? Sometimes we forget just how fragile life was prior to the 20th century, and how fragile it is for many people today who are beyond the reach of modern medicine.

Yes, of course, you are 100% right. It would be stupid to completely reject all of the wisdom and understanding of the body Western medicine offers. But it's also completely lacking on the holistic side of things, which is why the best approach combines the knowledge of western, eastern, and alternative medicine. The problem there is a lot of western medicine docs don't have a clue about the other half of things. There are good docs out there, but until I find one, in general I don't trust the western docs because the ones I've dealt with didn't treat me well and didn't help me at all.

Also completely disagree with the notion that 99% of the world chooses to be miserable or suffer. On the contrary, I'd say most of the world live fairly happy lives.

Really? Most people I know do nothing but bitch and complain about everything.

 

[LivingInTheMoment]

That is an extremely broad assertion that is only valid in some cases. There are all kinds of other reasons people could end up with depression, including random mutations in DNA that codes for an enzyme that produces catecholamines, thus causing it to malfunction.



I don't know what you mean by grew a healthier structure. People are chemical manufacturing/manipulation bodies if biology and chemistry have taught us anything in the last 200 years.

The last part was pretty confusing, could you write it a little more clearly?

Hmmm, you seem to be a chemical factory alone, and I need the person behind that in order to communicate with.

Sorry but if it was only what you believe in, tell us why so many people have not been cured by medicine, yet have been cured by other approaches, though they were told they had so little time to live!...and yes, they had to come off their medication and open up and accept a little of the nectar of love!....and some human contact which lacks hard core mentality.

You seem to run on contempt, and look down on people who do not share your hard view of life and that accounts for your grandiosity, and I understand it is hard for you being any other way and why you chose what you chose to do, it feeds it! (no disrespect to people who are in similar fields, but are obviously very well balanced and hence I respect them for their views)!

Get a grip!

 

[Enlitx]

I don't believe it is a disease, that's where we differ.

You don't believe depression is a disease? Well, you have yet to respond to my questions about DNA mutations or problems with certain enzymes in anabolic pathways. I suppose you think that is all fabricated, just completely made up right?

Western Medicine hasn't prevailed. And it is a conspiracy to make money, anyone can see that. They wouldn't be advertising all these dangerous drugs on television if not to make money. What the hell else is advertising for???

Western Medicine has most definetely prevailed. It is pretty funny you think decades and centuries of research that has improved the average lifespan by many years, cured diseases that once crippled nations, and provided more health than in the history of humans is a scam. I take it you won't be seeing a doctor if you have cancer then right? I suppose you think chemotherapy is just a scam?

Capitalism dictates that drug companies advertise their wares to make money, that has nothing to do with Western Medicine. I want you to answer this question, what diseases has your "medicine" cured? I am not talking about stuff like happiness, lets keep it simple, how about bacterial. Where can I go to take someone to buy the cure or be cured. I won't hold my breath on that one.

And I have the right to push my ideas as much as the next guy. It's no more wrong for me to express what I think to be right than it is for anyone else. We all have our own ideas of wisdom, and we all can share them freely. We all each have the free will and the ability to be personally responsible for ourselves. No one can be "harmed by" what I have to say, they can only be harmed by their own choices. No one is responsible for anyone elses choices, no matter what they say, and no one has to listen to me if they don't want to. I will never stop sharing what I believe to be true in the attempt to help other people. Someone did that for me and that is what originally got me off of the medication.

You do not have the right to give potentially harmful advice when you have not put in the work or time to truly understand what you are talking about. That would be like me telling drug addicts its perfectly fine to mix a lot of xanax and heroin. Sure, I may believe it all I want, but it is dangerous and not fair to them to be given such advice.

 

[Enlitx]

I don't mean that all knowledge within western medicine is a scam, of course not, I didn't put that right, and Im sorry.

I mean that the pharm industry is somewhat corrupted in that they do PUSH all these new medications they come up with. They do. Like I said, they wouldn't be advertising this shit on television if they weren't trying to make money. They would simply create the medications in the hopes of helping people and trust the doctors to offer it to patients who they felt truly needed it.

Seeing these ads on television disgusts me. These pills should be a last resort and these bullshit filled commercials (usually showing beautiful, healthy looking people prancing around in fields of flowers or something equally unrealistic and enticing) push people into wanting that quick fix instead of actually getting healthy.



Yes, of course, you are 100% right. It would be stupid to completely reject all of the wisdom and understanding of the body Western medicine offers. But it's also completely lacking on the holistic side of things, which is why the best approach combines the knowledge of western, eastern, and alternative medicine. The problem there is a lot of western medicine docs don't have a clue about the other half of things. There are good docs out there, but until I find one, in general I don't trust the western docs because the ones I've dealt with didn't treat me well and didn't help me at all.

The pharmaceutical industry has done many questionable things, but that doesen't mean we throw the baby out with the bath water. We just need to reform laws about pharmaceutical companies.

Doctors have suggested excercise, eating right, and healthy emotional relationships for a long time. The difference between your ideas of medicine and Western Medicine is that with Western Medicine, there are constant tests of efficacy and research to promote ideas. If you are so confident of your ideas, why have they not been shown effective through research? It is not like scientists haven't conducted the studies, it is just that Alternative Medicine has failed miserably on many fronts. Again, I ask you, what diseases has Alternative Medicine cured? None, because then they couldn't scam people into making money.

Watch Penn & Teller's Bullshit! episode on Easter/Alternative Medicine, it is a good one.

 

[Tomer]

Is it dangerous that I enjoy feeling depressed? It makes me feel more calm, not giving a shit about what's around me.

In my normal state of mind, I am very happy. And I think I am too happy. As of this moment, I do feel kind of down. I took Adderall last night, and worked out today. My brain feels depleted, i.e. dopamine/seretonin.

I enjoy this feeling more, though. Maybe I wouldn't if it stuck with me for many years? Who knows.

 

[Enlitx]

Hmmm, you seem to be a chemical factory alone, and I need the person behind that in order to communicate with.

Sorry but if it was only what you believe in, tell us why so many people have not been cured by medicine, yet have been cured by other approaches, though they were told they had so little time to live!...and yes, they had to come off their medication and open up and accept a little of the nectar of love!....and some human contact which lacks hard core mentality.

You seem to run on contempt, and look down on people who do not share your hard view of life and that accounts for your grandiosity, and I understand it is hard for you being any other way and why you chose what you chose to do, it feeds it! (no disrespect to people who are in similar fields, but are obviously very well balanced and hence I respect them for their views)!

Get a grip!

Newsflash: You are a chemical factory too. To be clearer, you are a composition of chemicals in a steady state that resists the forces of entropy. That is what the entire branch of physiology/medicine is based on.

100 years ago many people weren't cured of all kinds of diseases, did that mean science was wrong, or just not there yet in terms of research? How about 50 years ago, 25 years ago? There is a reason countries all around the world spend R&D money scientific research about our biochemistry, because it is real and extremely obvious for anyone who takes the time to look.

Diseases go into remission all the time, and people tend to credit god/Eastern Medicine/their dog... whatever they were around that they want to attach meaning to. Viruses can cause tumor remission and the person may think that it was that spiritual healer down the road. Remission is normal, that is a very poor example to support your ideas.

I refute people who don't actually put in the work and time to understand subjects but go around and act like they have. I am not hear to tell you your ideas are just as good as anyone else's, we are not in kindergarten anymore. It just isn't the way the world works.

 

[MynameisnotDeja]

I take it you won't be seeing a doctor if you have cancer then right? I suppose you think chemotherapy is just a scam?

Nope, I'd never in a million years get chemo. Never.

Well, you have yet to respond to my questions about DNA mutations or problems with certain enzymes in anabolic pathways. I suppose you think that is all fabricated, just completely made up right?

I have never heard of depression being caused by DNA mutations. I am not saying it is "made up" because as you are forgetting, I AM NOT YOU, and I am not automatically skeptical of everything I hear. This is something I don't know anything about, and while I certainly believe it is true in some cases, I find it very hard to believe this is the case in 99% of people who think they have "depression". Are they doing testing for these mutations now? Because when I went to the doctor for my depression I simply told them I was depressed and they gave me pills. They didn't do one test for any DNA issues.

I want you to answer this question, what diseases has your "medicine" cured?

Acne and psoriasis, depression(which apparently doesn't "count" but DOES count as a disease when it suits YOU, eh?), chronic gingivitis, anxiety, insomnia, etc. Just to name a few.

Where can I go to take someone to buy the cure or be cured

After a year of suffering with debilitating full coverage psoriasis (and seeing dermatologists every 2 weeks which did NOTHING) I saw a chinese herbalist who cleared it up in a week. His shop was in Three Rivers, CA, and I'd recommend anyone needing a cure for psoriasis go see him.

You do not have the right to give potentially harmful advice when you have not put in the work or time to truly understand what you are talking about.

Yeah, and you don't have the right to decide whether or not I know what I'm talking about.

It is not like scientists haven't conducted the studies, it is just that Alternative Medicine has failed miserably on many fronts. Again, I ask you, what diseases has Alternative Medicine cured? None, because then they couldn't scam people into making money.

Wow.. amazing. I guess you haven't talked to the millions of people who've had success with alternative medicine. Go to curezone (google it) and read some of the success stories. There are plenty on there.

Diseases go into remission all the time, and people tend to credit god/Eastern Medicine/their dog... whatever they were around that they want to attach meaning to.

Haha that's such a hilarious cop out argument from people who are against alternative medicine. When something gets healed, its not that it actually works, its that the disease "magically went into remission". Give me a break.

Anyways, this thread is ruined, and I have already said all I needed to say. I don't enjoy arguing like this. You can think the way you want and thats fine, but I don't like the way you have spoken to me and others in this thread. We are worthy of respect and our view of things is not below yours as you seem to think it is. I hope one day you can open your mind, good luck.

 

[Enlitx]

I have never heard of depression being caused by DNA mutations. I am not saying it is "made up" because as you are forgetting, I AM NOT YOU, and I am not automatically skeptical of everything I hear. This is something I don't know anything about, and while I certainly believe it is true in some cases, I find it very hard to believe this is the case in 99% of people who think they have "depression". Are they doing testing for these mutations now? Because when I went to the doctor for my depression I simply told them I was depressed and they gave me pills. They didn't do one test for any DNA issues.

No, what you said is that all depression is a result of bad relationships or not having proper excercises. That kind of excludes what I mentioned huh? When did I say it was true for 99% of people?

Acne and psoriasis, depression(which apparently doesn't "count" but DOES count as a disease when it suits YOU, eh?), chronic gingivitis, anxiety, insomnia, etc. Just to name a few.

I didn't want to talk about depression because the cause is not fully understood, so it is very hard to determine what exactly fixed the problem. Would you mind giving me a link to the methods these people used to treat chronic gingivitis and psoriasis so I can see what they were doing? Otherwise it is the same thing as someone saying that fucking a virgin cured AIDS.

After a year of suffering with debilitating full coverage psoriasis (and seeing dermatologists every 2 weeks which did NOTHING) I saw a chinese herbalist who cleared it up in a week. His shop was in Three Rivers, CA, and I'd recommend anyone needing a cure for psoriasis go see him.

Again, unless you can specify what was done, there is no way to tell if it is all made up or how effectual it is. This is, again, a correlation with the Dark Ages.

Yeah, and you don't have the right to decide whether or not I know what I'm talking about.

I am compelled to make those statements when people's safety is at issue. I do know the difference between an understanding of biology and a lack of understanding, and you are clearly lacking an understanding about physiology.

Wow.. amazing. I guess you haven't talked to the millions of people who've had success with alternative medicine. Go to curezone (google it) and read some of the success stories. There are plenty on there.

So if millions of people have had success why can't it be reproduced in a lab setting. Something is fishy.

Haha that's such a hilarious cop out argument from people who are against alternative medicine. When something gets healed, its not that it actually works, its that the disease "magically went into remission". Give me a break.

Cop out? Or an explanation as to why people believe crazy shit. Remission has been well documented. Eastern/Alternative medicine has been documented as worthless most of the time.

Anyways, this thread is ruined, and I have already said all I needed to say. I don't enjoy arguing like this. You can think the way you want and thats fine, but I don't like the way you have spoken to me and others in this thread. We are worthy of respect and our view of things is not below yours as you seem to think it is. I hope one day you can open your mind, good luck.

I don't like the way you have spoken to me and the names you have called me. It is the kettle calling the pot black.

 

[MyDoorsAreOpen]

This thread has gotten way off topic. It was about happiness, but now it seems to be a debate on the merits of alternative medicine. I'm going to excise these parts into a new thread, and most likely move that over to Healthy Living, because as cool a subject as it is, it doesn't belong here.

My thoughts on the subject: I'm currently learning Western medicine. While I do think Western medicine is the MOST efficacious in treating disease overall, I don't think other healing traditions are all devoid of efficacy. It's just harder to predict, when using an alternative therapy, whether it will work for you. Even if such therapies lend themselves to scientific testing, the funding simply isn't there to conduct the necessary studies.

If I have a patient in the future who insists on using an alternative, non-Western product for the sake of improving their health, I'll tell them make sure they read up well on the potential risks, and encourage them to gather as many stories as they can online from people who've already tried the product, and if they still feel comfortable, to give it a try. I'll still offer a more conventional Western treatment for if they change their mind. It's the patient's body, and his/her life to live, after all.

When it comes to mental health, I really think it's silly to argue whether modern Western psych meds are overall better than other therapies, because this varies a lot based on the patient and the diagnosis. There are definitely some psychiatric diagnoses for which nondrug treatment options are the preferable option for the vast majority of sufferers.