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Been gifted a authentic and wedinos tested Quualude from 1970s. What dose?

Although acquiring the precursors for MQ is surprisingly easy. Even common folk will be able to source them online in EU at least.


As for the equipment and proper knowledge? I doubt the average drug user would bother or know what to do with it.
I think part of the issue is that the dose of a quaalude is like 300mg so you would only be getting ~3 pills for every gram you synthesize. If you aren’t making them on an industrial scale then there probably isn’t a ton of profit. Regardless though you could probably charge whatever you want for them if you were the only one selling real MQ to the western world. The stuff they make in South Africa is so sketchy looking if you’ve ever seen the documentaries about how they make it
 
I think part of the issue is that the dose of a quaalude is like 300mg so you would only be getting ~3 pills for every gram you synthesize. If you aren’t making them on an industrial scale then there probably isn’t a ton of profit. Regardless though you could probably charge whatever you want for them if you were the only one selling real MQ to the western world. The stuff they make in South Africa is so sketchy looking if you’ve ever seen the documentaries about how they make it
I mean 1kg of *****-************ is like 200€ and 1litre of *********** is like 220€, theyre not expensive just tedious to get one of them shipped
 
Below is something of a Scotratic dialogue. For your convenience I will take the role of,well, Socrates. My good friend, goat-pauper and hedge-wrangler,@fastandbulbous takes Secundus of Nitrobenzodiazepine, @Skorpio to reprise his role as Empedocles of Agrigentum (why alter what works?), @Smyth2 as Dick Dasterdly look-alike Aristobulus of Cassandreia and for one night only, @Mushoku_Sensei will be channelling Wittgenstein (Die Grenzen meiner Sprache sind die Grenzen meiner Welt).

LIGHTS, CAMERA, INACTION

I'm gutted no post-grad applied for 'the study of isomers, bioisosteres and compounds related to glutethimide (Doriden). A downer that is also a potent (CYP2D6) inhibitor. Put simply, (2 x 200mg) Doriden (raecemic glutethimide) +120mg codeine ===> ≈120mg morphine.

Now I've read all I can find but at no point does anyone resolve the two enantiomers. Has someone else checked this, I could be wrong?

Why does this matter?

We don't even know which of the two enantiomer are hypnotics nor if a hypnotic enantiomer is the enzyme inhibitor. We known one enantiomer undergoes pretty rapid metabolism' BUT later research showed it was a less toxic eantiomer (METABOLITE) that was responsible for hypnotic activity in MAN. Until the 1990s, we had ASSUMED it to be true!

Well, if the CYP2D6 inhibition is solely caused by an enantiomer that ISN'T psychoactive if consumed alone, even UK law crumbles.

Assuming the BEST outcome, two 100mg tablets of Laevoriden (laevodoriden) and 200mg codeine (or lesser quantities of dihydrocodeine, or hydrocodone, or oxycodone) and regardless of tolerance, you decide to lie down...) I only have two reports but one was a DOCTOR who had been in Rehab with Carrie Fisher! First comment was that it was not like codeine/morphine or any of the others I named or he named. It ONLY works for codeine homologues. You feel hungry and if you enjoy alcohol, get a couple of beers as you prep the sandwich.

You will sit, flick TV channel and as thirty seconds pass, it's eight hours later. He told me he ONLY ever used on 'the weekend' but maybe it was just him but weekends began 3.30PM Friday and ended when his driver used a wheelchair to get the guy to his desk 8.59AM Monday MORNING.

We couldn't understand how he was still alive but apparently yes he fell asleep a lot but was just tired. Appearing to be drinking a b i t too much worked but he is 'the doctor' so if he didn't know, he probably just told himself a lie...

NB This is Ancient Greek Theatre so you are all past of the χορός. Don't forget, it's all pure invention so don't be angry if someone else snatches the last double-ended tibia. First magic, magic, then magic a triple-ended tibia and an extra mouth to blow with. Fashion tip - our fashion editor notes that as of now, the recently outdated double-ended tibia is now an internal wind instrument.

For decades we have been praying for Muhammad to visit the mountain* for manifold reasons. One being that founding THREE world faiths, it's easy to imagine the wrong surmon being read to the wrong mystic rune and 'we damned well WILL hold a vigil for another 1400 years. Meanwhile Greek doctors cash into the latest 'whole earth food diet' Earth, Air, water AND fire.

Or, 'in English', if a safe,legal and cheap pill that you can sell in 10,000 lots at 25p per.

*Essays of Francis Bacon (1625)

As everyone can see. This is hardly a practical exercise. It IS interesting, but gives some ideas of problems, risks, benefits, expansion BUT the moment it's found all enantiomers have at least some activity alone and suddenly is the UK. It's a perctectly valid and worthwhile project for PURE knowledge. But you have to accept that the odds are against you. Hence broken biscuits here.

Oh, While I remember, A later paper suggested that the -OCH3 we wish to be an -OH does so via the NH i.e. O-demethylation,N-methylation, transesterification. I strongly suspect that reduction of C=O may be involved but catalysis prevents isolation.

@Smyth2 I don't know if youpreviously red the refs. It seems every decade or so, someone does a bit more. I would just appreciate people believing because I READ, not because I say So! But just look at all of the major classes. Amide and/or Imine. I have been staring at them and it justs FEELS something is mussing.
What honor, master, to be mentioned here! And sorry for the late reply - READ I had to, since I wanted to comply
- to channel a genius - if not comprehend...
"Philosophical problems are merely results of inaccurate language-use " - indeed you had better written in German! 😜
It's a question of making sense or nonsense or is it senseless?
With inhibition of CYP2D6 won't you have less Codeine-metabolisation/=activation, meaning effect? Is inhibition truly what we're looking for?
In any case, since sense makes only what is real - The necessary experiment - I volunteer,
for the role of the DOCTOR, though I fear,
what started with hope will ever be-
come weekend's end, just misery...

Edit: forgive the OT
 
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yeah 100%, ironically I feel more comfy doing 2-Methoxyqualone than I would smoking mandrax from SA, scary just watching them make it!
And the people that make it get like cancer and all of these horrible things. I wonder how difficult it would be to clean out all of that crap and get a pure(ish) product. The way it’s made reminds me of krokodil honestly
 
^That show was good all around -- mandrax smoke it and have a seizure -- looks awesome.

Not at all the classic experience that I heard going along with barbs growing up -- noone was smoking unknown doses of course either. Ill wait for someone to make it right - was almost dumb enough to try methylmehtaquaalone or something like that but it was very seizure inducing after a single google (Srry I slaugtherred the name but you dont want it anyways)
 
That's an interesting video. Scary looking cook process, but also an interesting explanation for why it's still in South Africa and not elsewhere, which I thought was odd before I saw this. (I mean, why South Africa of all places?)
It almost makes me feel nostalgic enough to try that old stash of mine. But, no, not really. 😆
 
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^That show was good all around -- mandrax smoke it and have a seizure -- looks awesome.

Not at all the classic experience that I heard going along with barbs growing up -- noone was smoking unknown doses of course either. Ill wait for someone to make it right - was almost dumb enough to try methylmehtaquaalone or something like that but it was very seizure inducing after a single google (Srry I slaugtherred the name but you dont want it anyways)
Omg the guy that hit it standing up and then just drop to the floor and get up and do it again. Not sure why he didn’t just hit it while sitting down
 
As someone that tapered off high dose benzos -- seizures have been my biggest fear for like 10 years! I could not imagine being okay with that -- especially since my understandiing is after the first one MORE ARE COMING usually.

Wild wild shit --- I think I would take the jenkem first. Humiliating but I walk away unharmed lol (Not sure why im in an African DARE commercial where they got a gun to my head "Do one of these two drugs"...but if they did)
 
As someone that tapered off high dose benzos -- seizures have been my biggest fear for like 10 years! I could not imagine being okay with that -- especially since my understandiing is after the first one MORE ARE COMING usually.

Wild wild shit --- I think I would take the jenkem first. Humiliating but I walk away unharmed lol
Yeah unfortunately I’ve had several seizures. It’s traumatic. Also it’s traumatic for people that witness it. When I have one everything just goes black and then I come to and my mouth is filled with blood and my tongue is bitten to hell and my body feels like I got hit with a car. My friends that have seen me have them say that it’s super scary to witness. One of my best friends said that she’s traumatized from seeing it because she thought I died
 
As someone that tapered off high dose benzos -- seizures have been my biggest fear for like 10 years! I could not imagine being okay with that -- especially since my understandiing is after the first one MORE ARE COMING usually.

Wild wild shit --- I think I would take the jenkem first. Humiliating but I walk away unharmed lol (Not sure why im in an African DARE commercial where they got a gun to my head "Do one of these two drugs"...but if they did)
African DARE commercial 😂😂
 
True true, but I must clarify what threw me off was the claim that it is used ”Clinically” in China. Making it sound like they use pharma grade Etaqualone either as a prescription medication or in hospitals, not illicitly.
This seems unlikely tbh. There's no shortage of tried and tested sedatives for use in clinical settings. I can't think of any good reason to use a Research Chemical analogue, with little in the way of trials or data.

Considering the medical establishment moved away from this class of substances in the early 1970s, in preference for benzodiazepines, among other things, which at that time were regarded as a much safer option, with a lot less potentially dangerous and negative side effects.
 
A 50-yr-old lude?
I'd surprised if it does anything at all.
I found a few Tuinal (secobarbital and amobarbital combo drug made by Lilly) a while back that were about 41 years old. I made a thread about it actually. They definitely still worked, though they may have lost some potency. Not the same drug obviously l, but yeah.
 
In the long long ago (circa-2003) a friend of mine found an old prescription of 'ludes in his parent's medicine cabinet that contained all kinds of other goodies. There were only two pills left in the bottle and he refused to share. He said they weren't that great compared to xanax but I always assumed the pills had degraded a bunch by the time we stumbled upon them because they weren't stored that well.

My parents have told me stories of taking ludes in the late 70s-mid 80s. My Dad was a bit of a drug dealer in those days but he stopped when I came along. My mother loved cocaine, pills and pot so of course she married the money/drug man and they had some drug fueled fun times before he wanted to settled down and started working out of town all of the time to support his new family. She didn't slow down like he did and it led to them splitting by the early 90s.

Anyway, my Dad said they once took ludes at a friend's house and for whatever reason they decided to drive home in his bad ass Trans-Am. He said he was so fucked up he couldn't keep the car in the road. Kept going out of the right side of the highway, crossing it, going off the left side and someone maintained that without wrecking. At one point he told my mother he was sorry about the bad driving and her response was "Just do the best you can, honey". For context, my mother usually freaks out if you go over 30mph and she's terrified of anything with an engine in it. To the point that she'll hug the floor of a boat doing about 40mph in the water and ride 30mph in the left lane of the interstate while screaming at all the maniacs passing her on the right. She says I'm a good driver though for whatever reason. Probably because I'm _really_ easy on the throttle and brakes whenever she's riding shotgun and most of the time she's totally plastered on alcohol whenever she's in my car (she drinks and drives everywhere she goes. Says it helps her nerves).

What should have been my oldest cousin died because of ludes and a furnace explosion. My aunt and her husband left to go sell some ludes at the local pool hall. They left a friend to watch the house/child while they were away for a half hour. He took a lude and passed out on the couch. A few minutes later the furnace exploded and caused a massive fire. The explosion woke him up from his stupor. He tried to the point of getting 3rd degree burns to save my cousin. But she was at the end of a hallway and the fire was raging too much by that point for him to run through it or put out. My cousin burned to death at age 6 months, he committed suicide, so did the man that had worked on the furnace a few days prior to it happening, my aunt left her husband over it and ended up becoming addicted to various substances (eventually crack) and was never right again.

Obviously, I'm not a big fan of this drug. But I'm still interested in trying it. I've heard a lot of good and bad stories about it over the years. Most people I know that took it in the day said you basically blacked out and didn't remember shit. But they all said it felt really really good from the parts they could remember.

I watched Wolf of Wallstreet with my Dad when it first came out. During the scene where they were eating ludes while playing liquor pong he said it was bullshit. There was no way they'd be able to stand after eating that many ludes. Then when the guy fell on his ass he said "Okay, yeah they're taking ludes".

I still contend this drug has obtained a bit of holy grail status due to the media and stories from old timers though. To me it sounds pretty similar to the old combo of Soma+Oxy+Xanax/Valium/any other benzo. Basically, a good time you don't remember tomorrow. The stories of all the dumb shit I've heard from the old timers about people doing while blacked out on ludes sound very similar to the stories I have about friends doing dumb shit on xanax. Only difference is people on xanax seem like they were able to be more mobile than people on ludes. With ludes it sounds like you got into less trouble because you were literally unable to move around much after taking more than 2-3.
 
My overlong point was that as RC vendors move to older and older medications, the less science actually knows.

We know at least one isomer is also a potent enzyme modulator... but we don't know which one or indeed if both have that action.

My side-note was simply that IF the isomer that modulates enyzmes is not itself active (it just makes codeine and relatives much more potent), is that isomer legally controlled? Don't forget, without the codeine, it does nothing.

BUT just finding out would require more work than RC vensors would invest.. which does NOT preclude them from selling a homologue (swapping those ethyl side-chains to isopropyls is known to produce an active). But then this is a LONG way from that which has been studied.
 
My overlong point was that as RC vendors move to older and older medications, the less science actually knows.
thanks for taking to the time to explain, this gave me a lot more info and helped me understand things a lot better - It seems I'm developing an interest in organic chemistry and pharmacology now!

We know at least one isomer is also a potent enzyme modulator... but we don't know which one or indeed if both have that action.
And I'm off down another rabbit hole.....:ROFLMAO::love::LOL:

Sharing what I found for those who might also be interested.

Asking AI about this gave a pretty detailed breakdown on things, especially on each 1 of the positional methyl isomers studied (which I guess makes sense given they were looking at this specifically when developing quaaludes).

Isomer / analogueType of isomerEnzyme‑inducing strengthEffect on enzymesReference status (paper name, authors, year)Notes
3‑chloro analogue (Mecloqualone)Halogen‑shiftHighStrong induction of hepatic microsomal enzymes; increased oxidative metabolismArchival‑only“Studies on the Metabolism of Quinazolinone Derivatives: Microsomal Enzyme Induction by Mecloqualone”, K. Takagi, H. Nakajima, 1969, Japanese Journal of PharmacologyMost consistently described inducer in secondary literature
2‑chloro isomerHalogen‑shiftModerate–HighSignificant upregulation of liver microsomal enzymesArchival‑only“Metabolic Behavior of Chloro‑Substituted Quinazolinones”, A. Takanaka, R. Kato, ~1970, Biochemical PharmacologyCited in SAR reviews but not digitally indexed
4‑chloro isomerHalogen‑shiftModerateModerate induction of hepatic enzymesArchival‑only“Halogen Effects on Quinazolinone Metabolism and Enzyme Induction”, R. Kato, 1970, Pharmacological ReviewsAppears in quinazolinone metabolism summaries
6‑methylmethaqualonePositional methylModerateMild–moderate induction of microsomal enzymesArchival‑only“Structure–Activity Relationships of Methyl‑Substituted Quinazolinones”, H. Schläfke, W. Müller, 1968, Arzneimittelforschung (Drug Research)Only methyl‑shift isomer with consistent induction
Methaqualone (4‑methyl)Reference compoundMild–Moderate (with repeated dosing)Mild induction of hepatic microsomal enzymesVerified“Methaqualone”, chapter in Goodman & Gilman’s Pharmacological Basis of Therapeutics, multiple editions (1970s)Only member with widely accessible modern documentation

Isomer typeSpecific examples historically studiedPurpose of studyDifferences vs. methaqualoneEnzyme‑inducing properties (historical)Notes
Positional methyl isomers2‑methyl, 3‑methyl, 5‑methyl, 6‑methyl, 7‑methyl, 8‑methylStructure–activity mapping; potency comparisonMost had lower sedative potency and/or higher toxicityRanged from minimal (2‑, 5‑, 7‑, 8‑) to moderate (6‑methyl)4‑methyl is the original methaqualone
Positional halogen isomers2‑chloro, 3‑chloro, 4‑chloro variantsExplore halogen effects on metabolism and potencySome showed altered duration and toxicitySeveral showed notable microsomal enzyme induction3‑chloro analogue became mecloqualone
Mixed positional isomersMethyl + halogen shiftsBroader SAR explorationHighly variable potency and toxicityMixed; no consistent patternNone pursued clinically
Tautomers (keto–enol)Keto form (dominant), enol form (transient)Understand receptor binding and metabolismMinor differences in binding affinityNot associated with enzyme inductionTautomerism is inherent to quinazolinones
Chiral analogues (not methaqualone itself)Chiral quinazolinone derivatives created for researchExplore enantiomer‑specific pharmacologySome enantiomers showed different potency or toxicityNot linked to enzyme inductionMethaqualone itself is not chiral
Original methaqualone (reference)4‑methyl‑2‑quinazolinoneBaseline comparisonStandard sedative–hypnotic profileMild enzyme induction with repeated dosingWithdrawn for safety reasons

Key takeaways from historical research​

  • Positional isomers were the main focus; most were weaker or more toxic than methaqualone.
  • Halogen‑shift isomers were the only group with consistent enzyme‑inducing effects.
  • Tautomers exist but were not pharmacologically distinct enough to matter clinically.
  • Chiral analogues were explored academically but never developed.
  • No isomer solved the core safety issues of the class (respiratory depression, interactions with alcohol, dependence).

Soooooo what does this mean for 2‑Methoxyqualone - SAR comparison


CompoundStructural featureEnzyme systems affectedMetabolic + toxicity profilePharmacological profile (potency, receptor binding, metabolism)Reference context
Methaqualone4‑methyl group on quinazolinone core; lipophilicHepatic microsomal oxidases (historical CYP‑type oxidative pathways)Moderate metabolic rate; accumulates with repeated dosing; mild enzyme induction increases clearance over time; higher toxicity due to lipophilicity, respiratory‑depressant potential, and accumulationHigher potency; stronger GABA‑A modulation; slower clearance; greater CNS depressionVerified: Goodman & Gilman’s Pharmacological Basis of Therapeutics (1970s editions)
2‑MethoxyqualoneMethoxy group at position 2; increases polarityMinimal effect on hepatic microsomal enzymesFaster metabolism; rapid clearance; no meaningful induction; lower toxicity due to reduced lipophilicity, weaker CNS depression, and less accumulationLower potency; weaker GABA‑A modulation; shorter duration; faster clearanceArchival‑only: Schläfke & Müller, “Pharmacological Properties of Methoxy‑Substituted Quinazolinones”, 1968, Arzneimittelforschung

Sadly the "Schläfke & Müller, “Pharmacological Properties of Methoxy‑Substituted Quinazolinones”, 1968, Arzneimittelforschung" study isn't available online, would need someone to go and check microfilm or dig out a physical copy in a library.

The methoxy group increases polarity and speeds clearance, which:
  • reduces accumulation
  • shortens duration
  • lowers CNS‑depressant intensity
  • avoids enzyme induction
  • reduces overall toxicity
This is why methoxy‑substituted quinazolinones were historically described as “softer” analogues.

Why toxicity tracks with lipophilicity in this drug class
  • More lipophilic analogues (like methaqualone) cross the blood–brain barrier more efficiently.
  • They also accumulate in fatty tissues and the liver.
  • Accumulation increases both duration and risk of respiratory depression.
  • Faster‑cleared analogues (like 2‑methoxyqualone) produce weaker, shorter‑acting effects and lower toxicity.
@Perkins : Reborn so it's crap then? compared to Quaalude it seems like the answer is yes, you were right, but as I said before, taking more of it will help (as will redose frequency), issue is what's the LD-50 and toxicity like, there seems to be no historical LD-50 info for 2‑methoxyqualone, but reports that compared to quaaludes it has a significantly higher LD50, and much lower toxicity

For me I still think the bang for $ is the biggest issue though, however I feel a bit more comfy with my plan to take 660mg in 1 go, but the cost is just stupid for the effect (even though I like the effect a lot with a glass of wine).

Seems like the wine might be key here as I think that will be improving the absorbption rate and bioavailability....

Multiple SAR reviews from the 1970s–1980s describe 2‑methoxyqualone as having:
  • significantly higher LD₅₀ than methaqualone
  • lower acute toxicity
  • reduced respiratory‑depressant risk
  • less cumulative toxicity due to faster clearance
These conclusions come from comparative toxicology tables in later quinazolinone reviews, which cite the 1968 study even though the original data tables are not online.

The 1968 Schläfke & Müller paper’s contribution

The paper is consistently summarized as showing:
  • methoxy‑substituted quinazolinones had higher LD₅₀ values than methaqualone
  • toxicity decreased as polarity increased
  • 2‑methoxyqualone was among the least toxic analogues tested
  • no evidence of barbiturate‑like respiratory collapse at equivalent sedative doses
This places 2‑methoxyqualone in the “low‑toxicity” end of the quinazolinone spectrum.

My side-note was simply that IF the isomer that modulates enyzmes is not itself active (it just makes codeine and relatives much more potent), is that isomer legally controlled?
In the UK my understanding is that for Quaalude any isomer/salt/derivative is a controlled substance regardless of whether it's psychoactive or not, a non-psychoactive variant would be controlled anyway regardless of it being an enzyme modulator.

For other substances which are not currently controlled then enzyme modulation itself in it's own right doesn't make it illegal, so control depends more on if it gets caught up by other drug acts (MDA, MDR, PSA), legal experts no doubt will better understand the detail and interpretation better than I do.
 
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