⫸STICKY⫷ Australian Opiate Withdrawal Maintainance Medication Prescribers

[boodha]

^ Exactly, they are going to give you an appropriate dose not something wildly huge.

which is all in the CPOP report that i posted...

 

[Mr Blonde]

Rolls: I'm glad to hear about your success brother.

 

[rolls_]

which is all in the CPOP report that i posted...

Yeah but the majority of people are on bupe for heroin/oxy/morphine addiction, not codeine hence the average dosage is going to be representative of these people.

The doc would not give more than 1mg bupe to someone with a codeine addiction. Even if it does raise their tolerance the point is to keep them off their DOC and slowly taper them down to nothing over a long period of time, this way you can go 6+ months without withdrawal but also without getting high. It is all about getting used to the sober life style, not just about getting off the drug quickly, as this almost always leads to a relapse if it is done too fast.

^ I'm glad to hear about your success brother.

Thanks man, appreciate it.

 

[boodha]

Yeah but the majority of people are on bupe for heroin/oxy/morphine addiction, not codeine hence the average dosage is going to be representative of these people.

The doc would not give more than 1mg bupe to someone with a codeine addiction. Even if it does raise their tolerance the point is to keep them off their DOC and slowly taper them down to nothing over a long period of time, this way you can go 6+ months without withdrawal but also without getting high. It is all about getting used to the sober life style, not just about getting off the drug quickly, as this almost always leads to a relapse if it is done too fast.

yeah, i'm actually aware of that and i know how it is used..

my original post was only about how potent buprenorphine is compared to codeine and why I personally believe it could be the wrong choice for someone to start using buprenorphine to get off of codeine, in most cases.

I know it can be used to treat addiction to all sorts of opiates, I know that a doctor will not prescribe 16mg a day for someone who is taking 400mg of codeine every second day(Im being a bit extreme here), while I know all this, i also believe that someone might be jumping out of the frying pan and into the fire by going on the bupe program, no matter if they are given the lowest possible dose of buprenorphine,

and reading the report would indicate that perhaps other people also believe this as it may not be used to treat codeine that often, all I was saying was, bupe is potent, nothing more nothing less.

what about longterm maintenance ? the report i read, while not specifically saying it, seemed to me to illustrate that longterm maintenance may be favored ? or at least practiced if not in all cases.
you have first hand knowledge, was this an option ?
is it always a case of taper, to get clean, what about longterm maintenance on buprenorphine ?

 

[rolls_]

and reading the report would indicate that perhaps other people also believe this as it may not be used to treat codeine that often, all I was saying was, bupe is potent, nothing more nothing less.

Long lasting would perhaps be a better term, you can take a very low dose and it could be less potent than codeine if you wanted.

what about longterm maintenance ? the report i read, while not specifically saying it, seemed to me to illustrate that longterm maintenance may be favored ? or at least practiced if not in all cases.
you have first hand knowledge, was this an option ?
is it always a case of taper, to get clean, what about longterm maintenance on buprenorphine ?

Here in SA they always attempt a short term (1 week) taper first, if you relapse they offer the option of considering long term maintenance/taper where they drop the dose over 6-18 months although there are instances where people can stay on it much longer than this for various reasons.

With most people physical withdrawal is second to the mental 'I want to get high' attitude, a lot of people want to get clean but once they are past the physical withdrawal will often relapse due to the massive change in life style. The advantage of long term bupe even if it does increase the withdrawal/tolerance is that you can very slowly adjust your lifestyle to a sober one. I think there is more merit to this than a lot of people give it.

Personally I think I actually raised my tolerance on 8mg initially but the long term taper has made it far easier to adjust my lifestyle which is what the issue was.

 

[boodha]

i also beleive longterm has more merit, check out Dr Jeffrey Junig(suboxonetalkzone.com), he basically advocates lifelong buprenorphine usage, as he see's addiction as a lifelong affliction, while I dont think I see addiction as a lifelong affliction(i might one day though...) it is sure better than relapsing.

it just depends on the individual.

 

[boodha]

Long lasting would perhaps be a better term, you can take a very low dose and it could be less potent than codeine if you wanted.

while true, people need to understand that buprenorphine is a significantly more potent opiate than codeine.

noone would consider using heroin as an opiate replacement for codeine...(heroin is used in the UK for heroin addiction,)



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heroin_assisted_treatment
nb: it is stated it is used to treat "opiate" addicts and not specifically just heroin addicts, this is why i mention it in this post, and again, im not against buprenorphine for codeine, i just believe it could be risky and would be suitable only for certain cases.

 

[rolls_]

while true, people need to understand that buprenorphine is a significantly more potent opiate than codeine.

noone would consider using heroin as an opiate replacement for codeine...(heroin is used in the UK for heroin addiction,)

Sure but that is because heroin is not a long acting opiate, not because of its potency. I totally disagree with using heroin to treat heroin addiction as it only holds the user for a short time frame.

 

[ayjay]

Sure but that is because heroin is not a long acting opiate, not because of its potency. I totally disagree with using heroin to treat heroin addiction as it only holds the user for a short time frame.

Hey read the numerous studies done on heroin maintenance - it works a treat for the right people. It's not the first choice treatment - merely an option for those people who don't get what they need frm methadone etc.

Boodha the high doses of bupe are prescribed to increase length of action. Bupe does not have a linear dose-response curve; the stone plateaus off after a certain point. That's how you get the option of alternate day dosing with bupe - you can ramp up the dose without significantly increasing the effect (it just increases length of action). It would certainly be an option worth considering for high does codeine dependence.

 

[Mr Blonde]

^ Yeah wasn't it Switzerland where they trialled a heroin maintenance program? And they found that eventually most of the addicts reached a plateau dose?

 

[ayjay]

Switzerland "trialled" for over ten years, then finally made it permanent I believe. Canada had a trial recently (NAOMI), and the UK has been fiddling with heroin prescription since the 60s (Merseyside project). Of course the Netherlands are all over it. I'm pretty sure Germany has prescription heroin too but I could be getting confused with injecting rooms...

Little Johnny scotched a heroin trial in ACT; we had our chance and I think it will be a long time before it's on the political agenda again

 

[Jabberwocky]

^there's not a too bad documentary following a woman on the swiss program available for viewing on youtube. i'll have a quick search in a moment and post it for anyone interested in it.

the woman they followed around really started to turn her life around after settling on the program. it was an actual happy ending unlike most others.

ha, that was easy! first result. it runs for 18m 21sec - Heroin Drug Trial - Switzerland

 

[leigh12]

mr ibis , pff no lol i didnt get on the done` coz of codeine
was abusing the shit outa them lil orange 30mg morphine pills , had unlimited stash
and oxys etc , until i met this chick whos mum wakd me up a cpl of times , n i liked it too much
n knew id do it again , so yeh , went sttr8 to clayton, within 45 mins of walkin into the clinic i was at the chemist gettin my first dose lol its wierd iv seen mates in line waitin for thyr doses sumtimes wen i go in , busteddddd lol


ibis , in melb , whats the go with take aways if uv been following the program like a good boy n not missing doses or rockin up off tits?

how long after first dose do they give u ur first take away

then each month u get another take away per week yes?

 

[ADATAW]

precribing doctor in gippsland

hey man first off let me say that this post is a great for the ppl wanting help but not knowing where to go im from gippsland and just want you to know of the doctors in this area that will help you get on a program there are 2 that i know of one of them i personally went through and another that friends have gone to first there is Dr Rooney in Traralgon who consults at Latrobe comunity health every wednesday from 2pm and by 4:30 the same day you should be on something i got onto the done 60mg also there is Dr noorwood in newburough but from what i here he is hard to se so i suggest that Dr Dooney is the one to go and see i hopw this helps antone inthe gippsland area wanting to get off hammer oxys or morph

 

[MrIbis]

Leigh12: When i went on the program first time, i got takeaways straight away in line with days the chemist was closed/public holidays. I don't see the big deal with newbies on the program wanting takeaways other than them wanting it for some recreational purposes.

There's no set methodology to the takeaway system, you'll get them when your doctor determines that you do not plan on abusing them.

ADATAW: Thanks for the info mate. We don't have a lot of info for country/rural areas so it's appreciated.

 

[leigh12]

ibis: yeh they said after a month or wen we find my stable dose , il get the takeaways , maybe certain clinics do it diff ways , my guy said one takeaway a week after first month , then 2 a week the next month , and so on

i see one of the docs u mentioned at the start of this thread, ur right , he is real good n easy to talk to , good bloke , i mentioned im on zannies too n hes like " man that shit should be banned throw em out " i prety much agree with him on that one considering the hecktic-ness of the first seizure or whateva the fuck happened to me , felt like a bad bad bad trip mixed with a k hole 10000x stronger than any k hole iv experienced . pretty scary lookn in the mirror and seeeing the back of ur head pulsating :s but fuck throwin em out and w/d

with all the stress n bs i got goin on atm it takes me 10mg to mellow me , doesnt affect my co-ordination , it took me 12mg (not inc my 2 daily 6mg doses) just to get to sleep last nite, my tolerances to both must be fuckd , if sumone with no tolerance took 1/2 of what im scripted a day theyd die i rekn , but its not like i knock bak 12mg all the time , just 2 tabs 3 times a day , last nite i was just pissed off as fuck n was either doin sum really stupid n end the pain for good , or just munch em down n hope i wake up in the morning over the problem, wich i am

im on 85mg now, not sure wich type it is , its sorta orangey yellow colour, i think 100mg will be where i stop at wich im gettin scripted later on in the week wen my current one runs out. Goin up 5mg a week or so over the next 3 weeks .
Becoz 85mg stil has me on the fone tryin to get pills (oxy, morphine) even talkin bout it now is makin me think bout it , might go for a drive to the footy club carpark n paint the concrete with hot rubber , good natural rush that one too , if u got enuff power under ya right foot anyway lol

my doc says u dont get tolerant to methadone, but i think thats bullshit , goin by exp , whats ur thoughts on that ?

Also i hear ppl sayin methadone gets u fucked up , like the usual opiate fucked up . iv neva get that , only takes my mind off it for the first few days after a up my dose , then i start to get tempted to score pills again

i dont really like hammer , shootin it got me too fucked up to enjoy , and smokin/snortin just costs me too dam much to get to that "just right" spot

but i told everyone to deny me sales, and deleted the numbers of the ppl whod eventually sell em to me if i hassled them enuff so no point trying,

been tempted to eat a heap of bricks n roll the dude for a heap but id feel bad , it aint my style , n plus if he got fucked on by the guy above him ( well known nutter/dealer from north subs ) thatd make me partly responsible, hes the last person id want after me , i like my fingers n toes were they are .

so iv prety much cut myself off from the bad influences ,

but now all the decent people i know who are clean-ish, theyr just the drinkin type , cpl puffs of a joint or theyll maybe take a pill once a month or two , not in the drug scene , think of me as a junky , anyone who calls me a junky gets a nice floggin, iv had to smash 2 of my best mates because theyve said it to me , both times i gave em a warning too , n they said it again , so cant say they didnt deserve it , i didnt want to do it ,im not a fighter at heart unless i have a reason to then thats totally diff situation n for me thats a green light to cut sick until they cant stand or my hands the size of a football, but im not the type to say sumfin n not go thru with it then look like a dick/weak/shittalker wannabe toughman like 3/4 of the people out there .

but with the good comes the bad , i started smokin ice again pretty reg the last 2 weeks, well regularly for me , just weekend warrior styles , not everyday thing .

mad product for sick price and when its sittin in front of me i just cant say no.. also started goin bubble again a few times, only go bubble for a fat rockin sesh n mainly to see some old good mates whov been on a iron bar holiday since i was 19

I lost 4kgs just from sweating from dancin n the heat inside the club 2 weekends ago , most times i go there straight edge , maybe a zanny to take the edge off the hektikness of the city these days n just a beer or 2 , then just drink water to keep the drys away


n its fukd coz the ppl i been smokin with , were meant to be to ppl i started hangin with to get myself out of the scene coz i thought wen they moved out near where my new place is they werent rockin the crackys n juice no more, then i get bak from work cpl weeks go n theyd just gota quarter of prety fucking dam good quality shards and a litre of squirt (ghb for the confused)

tho i do enjoy the juice wen im just on that fun level of juiced , like 3/4 the way to blowing out ..
aparently im the funniest person on earth according to other ppl wen im real juicy lol but i dont do it in public coz im prone to blowin out, blew out satday from 5ml over 4 hrs, fukn pricks drew dicks all over my face n didnt tell me at all, i didnt notice until the taxi driver started pissin himself laughn as soon as i jumped in , though i wlda done the same thing , thats what ya get for passin out , its the rules lol

but the 8balls gone n theyr havin a break so that forces me to stop again thank god , i thought shit was gona go downhill again for a second
even tho i been sayin im on the road to clean , k still holds its place in my heart and always will , thats next weekends adventure , got a q between 3 of us, gona be sick in this place i been livin at too , rail up a monster line , kick back on the lazyboy on the balcony with mad view of dandy mountains



p.s checkout new ZOO magazine, Amanda Hinchcliffe, omfg , id do anythn in the world to have her , actually shed be 2nd choice actually , the other not worth mentioning on here coz basically fuckall of u wld have no clue who im talkin bout. ah well

p.p.s CARN ZE FARKEN PIESSSSS , had a good convo wth the chick who gives me my dose about it this mornin , shes pies supporter too , i even got the missin teeth to match lol not for long , bookd in in a fortnite for a full reco lol got one of them 4grand worth of dental work form thingys from the gov , finally my bong n ciggi stained bottled cracked busted ass bling bling teeth will be no more woooo

 

[Mr. Squiggle!]

Dr. Stuart Reece, located at HighGate Hill, South City 7 Day Medical Centre. He specialises in treating people with narcotic addictions, and plus he also bulk-bills.

Brisbane.

 

[Flexistentialist]

Just be aware that Stuart Reece is suspected of fairly dodgy practices and I would encourage people to go elsewhere if at all possible. Check out the conditions on his registration following the most recent investigation (there have been several): Conditions

Google his name, because there's been questions about his practice for years.

 

[Mr. Squiggle!]

Fuck yeah dude. Stuart Reece is a quack OMP physician IMO. He takes your picture!

 

[Jabberwocky]

^photo ID is part of the process in Qld to be registered on the bupe program. it's for the government, not him to jerk off over