⫸STICKY⫷ Australian Opiate Withdrawal Maintainance Medication Prescribers

[MrIbis]

^That they do not.. no internet at all.. no nothing of interest to do. you'd hate it.. do outpatient like i did - and grow some balls.. Bupe will make all other opes worthless... just do it. or be a man and go clean entirely, cold turkey.. coz in the end with bupe - you still suffer WDs, and they're alot worse and more protracted than codeine/morphine/heroin.

 

[Mr Blonde]

^ It wasn't my idea to do a detox like that, I was expecting to just receive some drug counselling to help me just stop, instead all the psychs and drug and alcohol doctors think it's a good idea for some reason to do a in-patient detox, I think perhaps they are worried I will flip out or something?

 

[MrIbis]

perhaps, with your psychiatric problems you may not be considered suitable for inpatient.

i did inpatient 10 day detox once, after day 3, and believe me, its not so bad in there being dosed up every 6 hrs on heps of valium and sedatives... but like i hardly call it 'detox'... coz valium was what i was in there for anyway.

After sleeping those few days, i felt extremely bored... so i checked myself out.. I've gone thru addiction several times since - and yeah come out of it fine. Just be strong mate. Withdrawal sucks, but the light at the end of that tunnel fucking rocks - and it feels good when you embrace that light (p.s i've been fuckn krankin and happy for 8 days, considering all the drugs i partook in over that time... to be sober right now, and feel good is an achievement - it's all about seeing the light in the human heart)

 

[Sublimit]

Mr Blond you could suggest a rapid detox to your GP or Psych. getting on bupe and reducing each day for 2 weeks should be fairly comfortable for you and would break the codeine cycle you're in. going from large amounts of codeine to bupe might be a problem though, but from my experience i used tramadol for a day in between taking bupe and i had no WD effects and was a smooth transition.

 

[Mr Blonde]

Mr Ibis: Thanks brother, yes I am ready to quit, and I would really prefer to do it myself without sitting around in hospital bored as hell because I know that will just make me think of using even more! It's weird that you mention that my psychiatric issues might make me less then ideal for inpatient as the people who referred me knew of my psychotic symptoms, I haven't heard from the hospital yet but I will tell them I am not really keen on the idea.

Sublimit: Thanks for the tip, why do you think the transfer will be a problem? Will it be a matter of working out the bupe dose for me?

 

[Sublimit]

Mr Blond, I don't know a great deal about the pharmacology of buprenorphine and i can only go off personal experience and from what i've read. If someone was dependant on full agonist opioids while not in WD then it's possible it can lead to a precipitated withdrawal.

this is from wikipedia; People switching from other opiates should wait until mild to moderate withdrawal symptoms are encountered. Failure to do so can lead to the rapid onset of intense withdrawal symptoms, known as precipitated withdrawal.[25] For short acting opioids such as codeine, hydrocodone, oxycodone (and OxyContin), hydromorphone, pethidine, heroin, and morphine, 12-24 hours from the last dose is generally sufficient. For longer acting opioids such as fentanyl and methadone, 2-3 days from the last dose is needed to prevent precipitated withdrawal.

So you're currently using 1200mg of codeine a day? 600mg twice a day i assume... well i'm not exactly sure how you'd go switching, but i assume it would be ok due to codeines short half life. I can't remember what i actually read about tramadol working with buprenorphine but they seem to work well and not cause any unpleasantness when switching. like i said, i used tramadol for 24 hours then switched to bupe with no WD effects what so ever.

now regarding the dose; thats something you need to work out with your GP/specialist, but i would suggest starting at 4mg then reducing 0.2mg each day for 20 days until you hit 0.2mg... that way you will be at home, comfortable and you wont even think about using codeine in that time.... beats doing an in house detox.... anyway, let me know how you go, whatever you decide to do.

 

[skatkid]

Hey guys just interested what was the point where u went from using opiates recreationally to being addicted? I'm sure u were aware the risk of using everyday? Cause atm i've got oxys and am spreading out my doses to keep tolerance down and avoid addiction. Just want to know what signs I should look for and be aware of.

 

[rolls_]

Hey guys just interested what was the point where u went from using opiates recreationally to being addicted? I'm sure u were aware the risk of using everyday? Cause atm i've got oxys and am spreading out my doses to keep tolerance down and avoid addiction. Just want to know what signs I should look for and be aware of.

When I was using 300mg of codeine 4x a week I was addicted. I didn't realise it but I was.

When I was using 1kg of poppy seeds every 2nd day I was seriously addicted though, that was when I required suboxone to get off it.

Are you addicted? Put it this way, if you can't put your stash down tomorrow and not use for 6 months you are addicted, going 'Oh I know I could do that, I just don't want to' is not a valid answer.

Quit tomorrow, if you can stay off you are not addicted. By the sounds of it you are trying to justify your use to yourself though and that is a certain sign of addiction to me.

 

[skatkid]

Well Ive used codeine once a week for a year with my gf. We stopped for a bit due to being over the taste procedure and I craved a little bit but was fine. Went back to once a week this r until the new laws. Haven't touched it since but couple weeks ago I've picked up some oxy. In my mind I want to use it for going out when I don't want to be hung over and for after using stims (which I rarely do) over the last 2 weeks I've done oxy on 6 days none of them together.

If u asked me to quit I could I think but I'd crave a little and be slightly reluctant. I know I have a psychological addiction but I just don't want to get physically addicted where I suffer withdrawals and also want to keep the tolerance in check. So yeah my rule will be back to back days a no no. If I break that I've told my gf to get on my case.
I think what works in my favour is I'm not using them to cover up pain or depression rather for enjoyment. I dno I appreciate learning from ur guys experience.

 

[Mr Blonde]

So you're currently using 1200mg of codeine a day? 600mg twice a day i assume... well i'm not exactly sure how you'd go switching, but i assume it would be ok due to codeines short half life. I can't remember what i actually read about tramadol working with buprenorphine but they seem to work well and not cause any unpleasantness when switching. like i said, i used tramadol for 24 hours then switched to bupe with no WD effects what so ever.

now regarding the dose; thats something you need to work out with your GP/specialist, but i would suggest starting at 4mg then reducing 0.2mg each day for 20 days until you hit 0.2mg... that way you will be at home, comfortable and you wont even think about using codeine in that time.... beats doing an in house detox.... anyway, let me know how you go, whatever you decide to do.

Thanks for the words brother, I am actually using 1200mg at once of codeine unfortunately. It's better then I used to be though, I have had the will power to cut down the dose a bit so that is a good start my psychs said yesterday.

My psychs all seem set on wanting me in hospital for a detox, seriously I am starting to not feel so crash hot on the idea especially because of recent big events with my girlfriend I would rather be with her and detoxing rather then stuck in hospital.

Strange that the tramadol helped you out, I thought it's major metabolite, O-desmethyltramadol, was a full agonist?

Hey guys just interested what was the point where u went from using opiates recreationally to being addicted? I'm sure u were aware the risk of using everyday? Cause atm i've got oxys and am spreading out my doses to keep tolerance down and avoid addiction. Just want to know what signs I should look for and be aware of.

I threw myself straight into an addiction pretty much, as soon as I liked codeine I began using it everyday and then starting using other opioids after that as often as I could get them, I am not a very well person mentally and the thought of having an addiction didn't really bother me for a long time.

I think it's great your girlfriend is there to help you out, if you start hiding your use from her then that's a definite warning sign. Keep her in the loop and help each other out, you can use opioids recreationally and honestly I would hate to see you go through the pain of an addiction it could easily tear you apart from your girlfriend, that's why I am quitting now actually.

 

[rolls_]

If u asked me to quit I could I think but I'd crave a little and be slightly reluctant. I know I have a psychological addiction but I just don't want to get physically addicted where I suffer withdrawals and also want to keep the tolerance in check. So yeah my rule will be back to back days a no no. If I break that I've told my gf to get on my case.
I think what works in my favour is I'm not using them to cover up pain or depression rather for enjoyment. I dno I appreciate learning from ur guys experience.

If you are using more than 10-15mg every second day you will get withdrawals, being as its only been two weeks it won't be too bad but it certainly will be there.

I'd cut down now man, save yourself the headache of getting a fullblown addiction.

These are the wisest words ever. When you can stop you don't want to, when you want to stop you can't.

 

[skatkid]

Yeah wise advice. Ok well for the next couple months going to save it for the 21sts coming up. The weird thing is I'm a curious person and am curious to see what withdrawals are like but at the same time my common sense is telling me to not be stupid

 

[Sublimit]

Thanks for the words brother, I am actually using 1200mg at once of codeine unfortunately. It's better then I used to be though, I have had the will power to cut down the dose a bit so that is a good start my psychs said yesterday.

My psychs all seem set on wanting me in hospital for a detox, seriously I am starting to not feel so crash hot on the idea especially because of recent big events with my girlfriend I would rather be with her and detoxing rather then stuck in hospital.

Strange that the tramadol helped you out, I thought it's major metabolite, O-desmethyltramadol, was a full agonist?

.

No worries man...Yeah that is a lot of codeine! just curious, i know that there's supposed to be a ceiling effect around the 600mg mark and i know that the liver turns around 10% of it into morphine... is the ceiling effect limited to just the codeine, and you get the 10% of 1200mg of codeine turned into morphine ie 120mg of morphine?

Yeah i know it's strange about the tramadol seemingly working with the buprenorphine. I read quite a few reports on it being safe and decided to go for broke.... i was reluctant to but once i read that quite a few people had success with it i thought what the hell... this is one report that i remember reading http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=61286

i'm also pretty sure i was reading a thread on it from somewhere in the BL archives and there were a few people actively using the 2 together... i'll see if i can dig it up after tea and before i go out

 

[rolls_]

Yeah wise advice. Ok well for the next couple months going to save it for the 21sts coming up. The weird thing is I'm a curious person and am curious to see what withdrawals are like but at the same time my common sense is telling me to not be stupid

Imagine the worst case of the flu (real flu not a cold), gastro so you are vommiting and shitting yourself and your entire family dying in a car accident all in one week.

I am not exaggerating, full blown withdrawal is 100% comparable to this, the physical sickness along with the psychological effects, do not go there.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Strange that the tramadol helped you out, I thought it's major metabolite, O-desmethyltramadol, was a full agonist?

been wondering a bit about this myself lately, but with my limited understanding of most things chemical haven't been able to come to a conclusion and understand it fully. with the low affinity to the mu opioid receptor, it may be more the synergistic seretonin and noradrenaline modulation, similar to how TCA's (tri-cyclic antidepressants) show efficacy in pain management. one study i've read also sates the efficacy of tramadol is determined by individual CYP2D6 genotype.

myself (and many others) have taken tramadol and buprenorphine with great success in combination for pain management/opioid treatment.

 

[Mr Blonde]

Well I don't see the fucking point of going into hospital now I'm in WD and it seems my neuroleptics are worsening it fuck this is bullshit

No worries man...Yeah that is a lot of codeine! just curious, i know that there's supposed to be a ceiling effect around the 600mg mark and i know that the liver turns around 10% of it into morphine... is the ceiling effect limited to just the codeine, and you get the 10% of 1200mg of codeine turned into morphine ie 120mg of morphine?

I don't know brother I've never seen any studies done on what happens above the ceiling effect, I imagine it has a lot to do with genotype like with tramadol as leftwing mentions. People who can metabolize more morphine out of codeine can push their doses more, unfortunately in my case

Imagine the worst case of the flu (real flu not a cold), gastro so you are vommiting and shitting yourself and your entire family dying in a car accident all in one week.

I am not exaggerating, full blown withdrawal is 100% comparable to this, the physical sickness along with the psychological effects, do not go there.

Yeah it's pretty fucked up man don't even play with it you will regret it a fucking LOT!

 

[MrIbis]

like leftwing: i found both tramadol and buprenorphine to play a vital role in management of my withdrawal. Buprenorphine helps, but be warned that it's little more than a bandaid for you to get your thoughts in order before taking the dive into the w/d pool - and that being it is a long-acting opioid, you will suffer a protracted withdrawal, rather than the 1-2 weeks common (short acting) opioids like heroin, morphine and codeine will throw at you. Instead be in for a. how can i put it, lighter, but far longer (6 weeks - 2 months) w/d period.

food for thought.

also, the comments on the severity of w/d are spot on.

 

[skatkid]

Interested in the psychological effects of w/d. What are they comparable to? Overall worse then the physical?

 

[Mr Blonde]

^ Depends on yourself, for many though the psychological symptoms are longer lasting and what can lead to relapse in the long term. I get intense cravings, associations of opioids with certain memories or songs or things like that, also during WD like now my cognitive abilities are somewhat affected I have a lot of problems with memory and short-term memory like learning new things, etc, remembering names that I've learnt before, etc...

I also get rebound anxiety pretty badly as I mainly have used codeine to reduce anxiety, I get fatigued and demotivated yet cannot sleep, racing thoughts are a problem for me, wanting it to end as soon as possible which I guess is normal, etc...

It will be over soon though hopefully I am detoxing alcohol and codeine this week, on day 3 now which is the worst usually.

 

[skatkid]

Good luck. Hopefully it's all up hill. Similiar to how it was the shortest day yesterday and gets sunnier from here on out. Is there a depression similiar to meth or MDMA scatness?