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are we created equal?

ChoGrass

ChoGrass

Bluelighter
Joined
Jul 8, 2005
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75
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thailand
pls help me out here...

can someone pls tell me why we say that men are created equal? obviously we dont look the same... and if it meant by having same rights, i call bullshit coz there are too many privileged and under privileged people to be able to say that.

so are we really equals?

p.s. i'm not trying to be mean or racist or anything like that. i just want to see the end of this argument with help of other people... i'm too stoned to think by myself...
 
we're created equally but not everyone is treated equally for some reason or another. some do not deserve to be treated the same as others because they've proven that they cannot be trusted in society. ppl fuck it up for themselves and end up losing their right to be treated as equals. any other reason for not treating someone equally is prolly based on prejudices i would have to guess.
 
When we say, "all men are created equal", we are not saying that all men are born with the same mental or physical prowess, we are saying that because we are all humans we all deserve the same rights and privileges. A White man, an African American man and someone with a mental retardation all deserve to have same rights and privileges that are granted to the greater society as a whole.
 
Well, the question is only relevant if one assumes that humans are "created" in the first place.
 
ok. do away with 'create'. just simply 'are men equal' ?

are some born with better rights and better privileges? are some born to be smart and some born to be losers? all evidence say that we are NOT equal. and yet, we start off our society with 'men are equal'. why is that?

since we are equal, we all should have a shot at being CEO of a company or president of a country. since we are all equal, we all should have a good chance at making a million before thirty, if you do it right.

but do we actually get there? most of us wont make a CEO or a millionaire, obviously. most of us live ordinary lives serving someone higher and being served by someone lower. and from time to time we wonder why i cant be a superstar or have a million bucks in my left pocket and 1000 benjamin in my right pocket for changes.

they said, you could be all you wish to be because we are all equal. equal in terms of rights, equal under the eyes of god, whatever you define equal, but since we are equal, you should be able to do all that. that's what they tell you.

and when you DONT make it big, who do you have to blame, but yourself? bill gates did it, why cant you? kobe bryant can do it, why cant you? the white people can do it, why cant the black people? the japanese can do it, why cant the koreans?

i hope someone sees my point... im really bad at this.....
 
ChoGrass said:
ok. do away with 'create'. just simply 'are men equal' ?

are some born with better rights and better privileges? are some born to be smart and some born to be losers? all evidence say that we are NOT equal. and yet, we start off our society with 'men are equal'. why is that?

since we are equal, we all should have a shot at being CEO of a company or president of a country. since we are all equal, we all should have a good chance at making a million before thirty, if you do it right.

but do we actually get there? most of us wont make a CEO or a millionaire, obviously. most of us live ordinary lives serving someone higher and being served by someone lower. and from time to time we wonder why i cant be a superstar or have a million bucks in my left pocket and 1000 benjamin in my right pocket for changes.

they said, you could be all you wish to be because we are all equal. equal in terms of rights, equal under the eyes of god, whatever you define equal, but since we are equal, you should be able to do all that. that's what they tell you.

and when you DONT make it big, who do you have to blame, but yourself? bill gates did it, why cant you? kobe bryant can do it, why cant you? the white people can do it, why cant the black people? the japanese can do it, why cant the koreans?

i hope someone sees my point... im really bad at this.....
Click to expand...

It's called capitalism.

I think I get your point, and I agree, to an extent. The declaration that "all men are created equal" was for decoration.
 
I'll dissent :)

We are indeed all equal. 99.9% of our genes are exactly the same. Our individuality is determined by only around 0.1% of our genes.

In fact, we are all truly "second cousins."
 
LiveIllegal said:
Well, the question is only relevant if one assumes that humans are "created" in the first place.
Click to expand...
Create, defined: To cause to exist; bring into being.

You exist, I exist, we've obviously been brought into being. The dispute rises as to the origin of our creation.

Get back to reality and stop pandering the chop-logic philosophy that refuses to acknowledge that humans are created beings.
 
>>Create, defined: To cause to exist; bring into being.

You exist, I exist, we've obviously been brought into being. The dispute rises as to the origin of our creation.

Get back to reality and stop pandering the chop-logic philosophy that refuses to acknowledge that humans are created beings.>>

hah.
Perhaps if you stop equivocating.

ebola
 
i believe this is the age old discussion about race. i believe there it plays some factor, but circumstance and opportunity plays far mroe of a role in determining the 'success' of an individual.
 
Turbo Monk said:
Create, defined: To cause to exist; bring into being.

You exist, I exist, we've obviously been brought into being. The dispute rises as to the origin of our creation.

Get back to reality and stop pandering the chop-logic philosophy that refuses to acknowledge that humans are created beings.
Click to expand...

Right, I'm the one out of touch with reality. 8)

I wasn't pandering any philosophy. The word "create" implies a creator, no matter how one construes the dictionary definition, particularly in this context. Therefore, the question rests on the assumption that we were created. If we weren't created by some entity, then the notion of "equality" pertaining to the question has quite a different meaning.

Not every idea that's incompatible with your ideas of reality is a direct threat to Jesus.
 
in regards to the discussion on using the word created... you could look at it as the universe creating man, evolution creating man, etc. physical forces. man is created, we observe man created in the womb. it doesn't have to imply anything supernatural
 
qwe said:
in regards to the discussion on using the word created... you could look at it as the universe creating man, evolution creating man, etc. physical forces. man is created, we observe man created in the womb. it doesn't have to imply anything supernatural
Click to expand...

Ok, but the significance of the word "equal" is quite a bit different if we're talking about God creating mankind, or if humans are the result of years of evolution. Maybe it's just me, but I took the wording to refer to the idea of objective, inaliable rights (a topic discussed in another thread). If there's no divine force to grant us such rights, then it's up to society to determine and protect them, and the OPer has clarified that that's what his question is about anyway.
 
"Created equal" implies "in the eyes of the creator". Everyone has same dibs on heaven. Circumstances (genes, environment, etc) differ, but it's what you do with the one you got that determines your value.
 
^^^
Holy crap YES.

That's what I've been saying all along (well, in that ONE thread).

It's what you DO with the body you get which determines your value!
 
if i said,

"the concept that men are created equal is at the foundation of our modern society. and we build our societies around that concept (such as constitutions, justice system, human rights, etc)."

would i be making some sense?
 
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