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Any Atheists here?

any god i know doesn't resort to such blatant, vapid propaganda.

If Peter Deunov's descriptions of God, which are considered some of the finest in history, translates as blatant, vapid propaganda to you, I wonder what you would consider a worthy description of "any God"?

But maybe you could provide us with a better example?

Or is this just a personal thing again? In that case you might as well put that out of your mind as I have no interest in arguing or maintaining antagonistic relationship with anyone over the Net, and this also includes you.

One can also be different and disagree on things without letting it arouse feelings of contempt and aggression (as Jesus no doubt would say).

I also have quite a clear telepathic connection with Jesus by now, so I know how he feels about things and can see them from his perspective, but that is another matter and something that is more common than you might think.
 
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Fine by me. I think this speaks for itself. And I happen to be sober right now.
 
I'm genuinely happy to hear it and hope you can make it last.

As for these telepathic nonsense, read up on Descartes' demon.
 
While I might not agree with all of Peter Deunov's stuff, I do agree that if God exists (and I believe He does), then He is a loving, forgiving one. It sounds cliché, but love and forgiveness can save the world. If we were united in our minds and hearts, the bloodshed would cease. We don't even have to agree on everything, all we have to do is forgive one another. I think Jesus had it right.

It's insane how some people are such religious nuts that they actually kill people who don't subscribe to their brand. I say: if God wants certain people killed, let Him do it! Otherwise, back down, and read ten commandments again! (speaking to everyone here)

Then, related to what you were getting at, Ninae, unbelief has its own role in that it stunts spiritual growth. Without proper understanding of what and who we are, we might not have any compunctions about doing atrocious things.

I will be praying along with you, Ninae, for the violence to cease, and for the dark clouds plaguing our minds to lift. +1 for worldwide harmony <3
 
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I think one of the craziest things is that even "Theists" and "Atheists" can feel the need to obliterate and go to war with each other. Even as Atheist's main criticsm of religion is that it causes war and one of Theists' main belief is that war is an evil.

You might almost say Theism and Atheism are their own forms of competing religions. Not so much due to their beliefs, but because of their hostility and attitude towards each other. You can't force anyone to believe, and people need to get over the primitive instinct to react like a predatory animal who'll ponce on someone just because they don't share their beliefs.

These are the kind of people who are most likely to create war, anyway. But as a start one might for instance try to resist the urge on an Internet board full of anymomous people you'll never meet.
 
That is also a way of seeing it, as my family pastor said when we shared our personal experiences of Jesus, and I said many just think you're crazy when you talk about Jesus.

Ever heard the expression "Higher than reason" (Or living in the box of your frontal cortex)? Either way, if that's how you feel that's the level you're comfortable at right now, and that's fine by me as I believe people have the God-given freedom to choose their own beliefs which I'm in no position to interfere with. I only posted that quote for those who might find it inspirering or make them question their convictions.

If I was going to be a bastard I could say this is your problem, but it's more of a sad thing, really, to be so limited you think higher levels and perceptions of consciousness are nothing more than madness or fairytales. As Jesus once told me when I was very young and not as enthusiastic about these things: "You have believed the world".

Some very objectionable controversies reported on Wikipedia?

He taught the truth in a world of lies and sought to inform a humanity that was being purposefully held down in a state of ignorance. He was a modern diciple of Christ who sought to impart his teachings in a purer and more accessible form without any financial benefit for it. He was even taken in to be interrigated just for teaching a very noble and high-level form of spirituality to a few followers in the Bulgarian mountains.

But of course this was just the problem. Throughout history there have been countless like Jesus Christ and Peter Deunov. They always come with the same message more or less - a world of peace and equality for all - but that philosophy is never welcomed by those in power and they always get crucified in some way.

Can't say really see how your philosophy benefits you unless you're the heir to a throne of some kind.
 
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[this message had been deleted by myself, it was posted before the last message of Ninea; I am reposting it for the clarity of the discussion.]

people need to get over the primitive instinct to react like a predatory animal who'll ponce on someone just because they don't share their beliefs.
Such people don't react furiously because they don't share other people their beliefs, but because they see that certain beliefs (e.g. Muslims killing in the name of God, religiously motivated homophobia/racism, alleged telepathic connection with Jesus, eschatological stories about Angels/Devils, etc.) are like small tumors in people's mind which have the capacity to grow and spread themselves further in culture, untill they manifest themselves in Pure evil.

Reason is the highest Judge of humanity. Tolerance should not be our primary goal. Conflict is inherent in human relations; and only by means of conflict we can progress forward. We don't pursue conflict because we are predatory animals, but because we want to progress forward. If something does not make any sense, and can be discredited by reasonable arguments, we must leave it behind.

Even though, I am not attacking your last posts in this thread (which I think are of considerable higher quality than your previous ones, and show much more coherence), I do want to point out that your latest interest has some very objectionable controversies, so I advice you not to take every word of him too seriously.

I am not ruling out apriori the possibility that people can talk to Jesus/God. I am only concerned about scenarios where people start following this inner voice blindly without ever bringing it before the court of Reason. People should always remain critical about such "inner voices."

Maybe the voice of Jesus is now speaking to me and Jesus is saying me that I should tell Ninae that she needs go dance naked outside on the street. Why won't you do what I ask you to do? Jesus is asking you -- for God's sake! Why don't you believe me? Because you demand a reasonable argument to back up my claim.

Don't you think one should always apply such a scepticism to oneself also? Because, in the end, what makes your "inner voices of Jesus" any more true than my inner voice of Jesus? Should one not always remain critical about such "inner voices" and bring them before the court of Reason?



===

As I repeated before, I don't have any trouble with the poetical-religious verses of Peter Deunov you quoted. Also, I think your previous post was much more coherent than the stuff you have been posting here the last months.

Ninea said:
Some very objectionable controversies reported on Wikipedia?

Did you actually read them?

"All the races - the black, the red and yellow, must pass through the white race. The advanced souls of the other races will be reincarnated through the white race and the advanced souls of the white race will became the sixth race"
He believed that the numbers and letters have a hidden meaning accessible only for enlightened ones.
humanity descends from extinct races of Atlantis and Lemuria
The light has a central role in his teachings - and claims that it's an alive being with different degrees of speed and evolution.
Don't you think it would be wise to maintain a critical distance of his thought? Or should we follow every word he says (including the borderline racism) just because he happens to be a 'spiritual person' (who, of course, says a lot of nice things about Jesus).


===

As I proclaimed before: Reason is the highest Judge. Everything should be submitted under the laws of Reason. If something can be rejected by a logical/rational argument, or something is internally contradicting itself, one should dare to discard it. People should no longer be tolerant to every religious view just because "it happens to be polite to respect religiousity." To give a basic example: we should no longer be tolerant to the irrational view in many Islamic countries that women are inferior to men.

Religious people should stop hiding themselves behind their adagium:

... well, religion is something personal, I don't need to justify my beliefs to the outside world, religion is private... please leave me alone, you are such a hateful person...

Religion should not pretend to be immune to critique. This is a weakness. Only when something is defended over and over again and can withstand critique, something gains strength. This is also the main reason why I have shown so much frustration with your style in the past (and even now...):

Ninea said:
I have no interest in arguing or maintaining antagonistic relationship with anyone over the Net

If you want to discuss something in the 21th century with other people, you better have some good reasons to explain/defend your position. If you cannot agree with me on this, I gladly invite you to go dance naked on the street now.
 
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People are flawed. Some of what Peter D. said made sense, some of it didn't.

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Conflict is useful only if it leads to attitudes being readjusted to fall in line with reason, for the benefit of humankind. Widespread, violent conflict is not good for us, though sometimes violence is needed to stop more violence from occurring.

If we are to embrace reason, we should do it at all levels, and to not keep our minds closed when doing so. Arguing over the existence of God is sidetracking us from thinking of other things. It is amazing that we get to exist in this universe, in this form, at this time! We are fortunate, and to not pause in awe every once in a while puts us into a miserable state indeed :|
 
I used to be an atheist. Now I just admit that I don't know why the fuck I and the universe exist. Maybe it wished itself into existence from some other dimension that doesn't exist or some mythical fat bearded guy floating on a cloud sprinkled some pixie dsut into the black void. Something obviously happened.
 
I used to be an atheist. Now I just admit that I don't know why the fuck I and the universe exist. Maybe it wished itself into existence from some other dimension that doesn't exist or some mythical fat bearded guy floating on a cloud sprinkled some pixie dsut into the black void. Something obviously happened.

LOL. I think this was the best post of the entire thread. Just keep in mind while we might be made in God's image, God wasn't made in our image. And no less than fat, too, that must have given him a good laugh.

Humour very much comes from God so if you have humour it shows you are connected to God. When I feel humorous I feel some of the most connected to God. I have a preference for humorous people unless it's of the sarcastic kind or just meant to put somebody down.

No, I think the Prime Creator or source of all things (who created the more personal Mother-Father God who created us) could be more closely described as the combined fire of all the suns and planets in all created universes, and even more than that. And anyone in possession of some reason should be able to understand that all this can't have just come about from nothing, or by itself, like you can't create anything from nothing in this world.

This is also meant to be one of the reasons why we need Jesus as a mediator, or we would be destroyed by this all-consuming fire, which unlike us he has the strenght to endure. I think he works more as a deliverer of God's energy. When you call for him and learn to connect with him you can sometimes feel this warm power flowing through when he's in your presence.

And I don't mean an imaginary kind, but strong enough to be felt physically, sometimes you can feel it flowing out through your hands so I suppose it has some healing potential. When I talked with my priest about it (because he can channel the power of Jesus much more powerfully than I can - awe-inspirering) I said it feels more like a blessing/healing power and he said it can seem feel like that.

Anyway, when Jesus' power flows through me I feel I have the power to heal/bless (or at least to a small degree if I really made an effort). Which I haven't and never been trained in it, it just comes about impulsively, and just kind of happens. Another thing is that it's also healing for yourself as it's flowing through you.
 
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I am not ruling out apriori the possibility that people can talk to Jesus/God. I am only concerned about scenarios where people start following this inner voice blindly without ever bringing it before the court of Reason. People should always remain critical about such "inner voices."

I will answear to you for the last time in this thread, which is supposed to be a place for Atheists to gather anyway, and I had no intention of getting involved with it (Divide and Conquer). I also see little point in discussing with someone who has such different views, beliefs, values, knowledge, experiences, etc. - it seems almost like a waste of time or a debate just for the sake of it.

I just prefer not getting too much into debates like this, as I always win or leave them lost for valid arguments, so they hate me forever. Though by "winning" I don't necessarily mean from your perspective and doubt that would be even possible. I prefer discussing with people who are more (genuinly) logical and have some insight into what I'm talking about.

A car mechanic doesn't get into debates with a computer techie. It would be futile and lead to nothing productive. Besides, it seems like your main motivation is putting me and my worldview down, while I am more interested in getting to the truth of these things and sharing some of the inspiration I have received from "above".
 
I used to be an atheist. Now I just admit that I don't know why the fuck I and the universe exist. Maybe it wished itself into existence from some other dimension that doesn't exist or some mythical fat bearded guy floating on a cloud sprinkled some pixie dsut into the black void. Something obviously happened.

I like Lee Smolins fecund universes theory

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lee_Smolin#Cosmological_natural_selection

Mix that with the anthropic principal

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthropic_principle

Not saying i believe his theory to be true.. But it is a beautiful idea.
 
A car mechanic doesn't get into debates with a computer techie. It would be futile and lead to nothing productive..
So why does the car mechanic enter a computer shop in the first place? And why does she start talking out loudly about cars, even though nobody in the shop has any clue what she is talking about. And when people in the computer shop genuinely want to help her and want to start a discussion, she starts to get all defensive and says

I just prefer not getting too much into debates like this, as I always win or leave them lost for valid arguments,

It must be so awesome to be delusional. You haven't won any debates at all since you just ignore what other people ask/tell you. People really don't take you seriously here, you know. And the people that do respond to you are genuinely concerned about your "state." Maybe I should stop being so naive, and no longer try to be one of the latter... Whatever makes you happy in your amazing little world.
 
Not everyone are like you, you know. Don't take it out on me that you don't have any spiritual understanding/experiences. I'll respond to your last post, but this will be my last post in this thread.

I am not ruling out apriori the possibility that people can talk to Jesus/God. I am only concerned about scenarios where people start following this inner voice blindly without ever bringing it before the court of Reason. People should always remain critical about such "inner voices."

First, where did you get the idea from that I'm someone who hear crazy "inner voices"? This has only happend to me when I've gone into a state of delirium/psychosis from benzo withdrawal, which is true craziness, so I well know the difference. Staying up for 3 days in a row also seem to lead to something similar, but that is because your brain is starting to dysfunction. Also, where did you get the idea that I'm someone lacking in reason?

So with that out of the way, I can inform you it's nothing like that, but, at the same time, to someone who has never experienced it for themselves it's very difficult to explain, while someone who has would know right away what I'm talking about.

And you are right, it's more of a stream-of-conscious form of writing, but it's a form I sometimes prefer as it allows me to receive more inspiration. Also, I'm not always in the mood to write an University thesis, although I'm capable of it, but I'm sure most don't particularly enjoy reading this type of writing. And sometimes I just prefer a more conversational style, but so what?

Maybe the voice of Jesus is now speaking to me and Jesus is saying me that I should tell Ninae that she needs go dance naked outside on the street. Why won't you do what I ask you to do? Jesus is asking you -- for God's sake! Why don't you believe me? Because you demand a reasonable argument to back up my claim.

You feel this qualifies you to be taken seriously?

Anyway, to get serious, Jesus and his function in the world and in humanity has nothing to do with what you just mentioned. And it's really an offense to Jesus who is working tirelessly night and day to relieve human suffering and to make us wake up to the divine reality and bring us closer to God.

I'm not suprised to hear he hasn't shown himself to you, however, as he respects our will and doesn't force himself upon anyone. From my experience he only comes when you call out for him with all your heart or in times of great need. By the way, before you think I'm some kind of lifelong brainwashed Jesus-freak, I was never that attracted to Jesus, but in the last year I've been through a lot of traumatic episodes and near-death experiences, so it was kind of a last resort. And when you're laying there calling desperately from help from God, and there seems to be none coming, there aren't really that many alternatives.

What suprised me the most was that he appeared, however, as I'd never been able to imagine what that would be like or that it was something that would ever happen to me. It just so happens I have developed one psychic ability, something called "clairsentience", which means you can feel energies and emotions others might not feel, very precisely and strongly, and I can also communicate telepathically with him, or he with me.

So I can feel his presence very clearly. I don't see him visually, but I can feel him. And the first thing that happens is that he gives me some healing or sends me some kind of healing energy to try to comfort me and heal my emotions. Then I start hearing his words in my mind. It's very recognisable as he's always on about the same thing. He basically tries to calm me down and make me see sense. So he helps me both emotionally and mentally and basically tries to bring me back into balance and make me more healthy.

Yes, healthy is the keyword as everything about it is perfectly healthy. He tries to restore your health - physically, psychologically, and spiritually. There is nothing unhealthy in him, nothing irrational about him. Everything he says is right and you can't really say anything about it. There is no doubt or question about it - you can feel it deeply in your heart, emotions, and mind that he is right. So many times, especially during withdrawals or overdoses (well, mostly then) he has helped me and brought me back to my senses.

Though it's not necessarily such a pleasent experience. As you know him from the Bible he can be very demanding and many feel he demands more than they are willing to do or is possible for a human being (and that is probably why many reject him). But he's just trying to straighten you out and put you into place, basically, but for your own good. He requires dicipline and self-control, so you won't do so much harm to yourself and others. So he's not all sweetness and light but also like to apply what we would call "tough love".

Don't you think one should always apply such a scepticism to oneself also? Because, in the end, what makes your "inner voices of Jesus" any more true than my inner voice of Jesus? Should one not always remain critical about such "inner voices" and bring them before the court of Reason?

I wasn't aware you can hear the inner voice of Jesus. Besides it's more like telepathy than "inner voices". And the "reason" you put so highly is nothing more than one of the lower aspects of the human being, or the lower self. That is the mental body, and I am practically done developing intellectually, or my mental body.

Of course you could say it's superior to the emotional and instinctual body (or brain centres). But above that is the soul-body or higher self, which is a higher spiritual aspect of yourself and bridges your lower self with your spirit, which is the part of you that is "Made in God's image" and the level where we all are one.

And seen from a spiritual perspective of course these are superior but people vary in their ability to connect with them and receive impulses from them.

Don't you think it would be wise to maintain a critical distance of his thought? Or should we follow every word he says (including the borderline racism) just because he happens to be a 'spiritual person' (who, of course, says a lot of nice things about Jesus).

Peter Deunov?

You need to do some proper research so you know what you're talking about before making accusations like that, as he was (deliberately) misrepresented. His dream and what he preached of was the emergenge of a 6th race where all races would blend together and form the most superior race of all who has been and finally bring an end to racism.

http://www.beinsadouno.org/old/lib/sg116.htm

"The sixth race which is at hand has within itself all the good qualities of all of the races which have preceded. In this regard, it represents the essential synthesis of the human virtues.

Each race has given something of itself. The race which follows - the race of Love - will give the most. It will be represented by noble, luminous souls. It will bring to earth the new culture.

The brows of the people of the sixth race will be curved very little indicating that they are part of a very large Circle. The complexion of these people will be radiant like a figure illuminated by the sun. Light will emanate from their faces as if they were radiating. At night there will be no need of lamps. Wherever one goes, there will be light, because man will radiate light".

That's good enough for me.

And how many have you enlightened?
 
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Fair enough. Thank you for partially responding to my post and further explaining your point of view.
 
So why does the car mechanic enter a computer shop in the first place? And why does she start talking out loudly about cars, even though nobody in the shop has any clue what she is talking about. And when people in the computer shop genuinely want to help her and want to start a discussion, she starts to get all defensive

By the way, while we're on the topic of reason, can't you see this is not a valid or appropriate analogy the way you put it?

The car mechanic and computer techie aren't opposed to each other. They happily work in different fields and compliment each other and are in the position to help each other when need be. As opposed to "Theists" and "Atheists", who also operate in different fields, but more often than not are adversaries and antagonistic towards each other, and attacking each other's views can hardly be considered "help". Besides, Atheism is a lack of belief in something so there is nothing much to teach or learn from it.

That's one of the reasons why I didn't want to get involved, I only wanted to contribute some inspiration, and I think this discussion now can be considered clarified and closed.
 
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