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ANTIFA attacks peaceful right wing protestors in Berkeley CA.

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For the record, I definitely am anti-Islam. I’m also anti-Christianity. Anti-religion in general. I respect religious people’s right to practice their religion all the way up to the point where it starts to affect me. At that point, I have a huge problem. I pride myself in being a rational yet compassionate person and that’s who I will continue to be. Misrepresent my intentions however you wish. I believe in the strength of my reasoned arguments. I’ve been turning people away from religion since the eighth grade.

At least that's consistent. A lot of ultra left types I've known seem to have this contempt for Christianity whole seemingly being far more tolerant of Islam.

Ugh, it's all so similar. The ultra right, the ultra left, I've spent so much time around people of both types and the remarkable thing I've found is how amazingly similar they are to each other. Sure the politics are different, but the thinking, the mindsets the psychology its all almost identical. Like identical twins who somehow become mortal enemies.

I kinda agree with you but I might have a different take on it. I don't blame the religion. I blame people. Religions just a symptom to me. There are atheist versions of the same problems. It's all the same cause to me. People are idiots. All the more frustrating for me cause despite feeling that way I still care about people at the same time. Like caring for an elderly parent who's abusive too you and you have to keep preventing from hurting themselves. You love them but there are times you wanna smother them with a pillow just to make the pain stop for the both of you while thinking you'd probably be doing them a favor. But it's just a fantasy, you keep looking after them while they hate you and hurt you for it.

That, is how I feel about people.
 
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So basically you're saying the word racism has evolved and now should be accepted as valid for other forms of bigotry.
trump and followers tried to defend his comments about judge curiel's inability to do his job because he was mexican as not racist on the technicality that mexican is not a race.

so how else to refer to nationality-based bigotry like that if not as racism?

alasdair
 
trump and followers tried to defend his comments about judge curiel's inability to do his job because he was mexican as not racist on the technicality that mexican is not a race.

so how else to refer to nationality-based bigotry like that if not as racism?

alasdair

Well that's the problem. We wanna make everything be racism because calling it racism has a lot of advantages. The word is short, simple, already universally negative. Lots of laws are based around it that should probably encompass more than race.

The only problem is it's NOT racism.

To be honest, maybe just forgetting that racism has historically referred only to race really is the simplest, easiest, and most effective solution. I can get on board with it as long as people comprehend it. But people are retarded so the fact the word is still has the word race on it makes that difficult.

Personally, I would call it discrimination, but not racist discrimination.

I already wrote a last post last page about my thoughts on this problem. People want to expand the word racism to encompass more than just race for the reasons I said a page ago. But most people are too stupid to argue this sensibly.

I'll say what I said a page ago. People are stupid and they keep trying to make the word encompass shit that historically it has not encompassed because they're too retarded to just use a different word and argue that it's wrong without being racist. That's too complicated and people have complicated. So they use the word racist. But then someone disputes it and it becomes complicated anyway arguing what the word means and what race is and so forth.

So if they had any sense they would have skipped the racism angle and started the complicated argument about it being wrong without being racist instead of calling it racist and winding up with an equally complicated argument about that. But just comprehending that that's the situation is complicated too, so people are too stupid to see it either. People go for simplicity first, every time. Even if it adds up to just as many words if not more in the long run at the cost of a better more sensible discussion

People, are, stupid.
 
it's discrimination based on his heritage and his ethnicity. you don't think that's effectively racism? it would be better if we differentiated between true racism and ethnicity-ism?

what's the bottom line difference between "i don't like blacks" and "i don't like mexicans"? why should they be treated differently?

i do agree that we've completely lost the ability to have a nuanced discussion and i think that is sad.

alasdair
 
They SHOULDN'T be treated differently. That's my whole freaken point. People get this idea that if we don't call it racism then it must not be as bad as racism. So we go to all this effort to compare it to racism or warp the definition to BE racism rather than just accept it can be equally bad, hell it can probably be worse even if it's NOT racism.

That's what I keep saying!

This whole is it racism is it not racism is a stupid distraction. It doesn't have to be called racist to be as bad as being racist. But for the third time, people are retarded and they like things to be simple and they don't think it through. So they call shit that isn't racist racist rather than argue it's bad in spite of the fact it's not racist. And in doing so the people defending it then can correctly divert the discussion onto the subject of if its racist or not. And that fuels this whole notion that it being bad or not or how bad it is is linked to if it really is racist or not.

But it's NOT linked to it. It's irrelivent.
 
Judging by the fact your location says California I'm willing to bet you don't actually know the details beyond what you've seen in the mainstream media regarding the EDL, who they are and what they're really about. Right-wing hate group is no doubt the image floating around in your head. The EDL is made up of regular people who got fed up with what was occurring their towns across the UK, in particular regarding the Muslim community and the gangs, drugs, prostitution, and as we've seen in recent times the grooming gangs. They are real fucking issues, OK? Understand? There's plenty of people of colour and different backgrounds in the EDL and the associated groups like that - it's not about non-white immigrants, that's the label the media continually likes to push because they simply will not address the real issues with the Muslim community in this country, because they're afraid to do so (for politically correct reasons, and because there are genuinely fucking dangerous people in that community).

Just back to say...this is a load of hogshit.

The EDL were a bunch of fascists who tried to pretend they weren’t. They were basically football hooligans pretending they were what SS is claiming. They weren’t. This was soon found out.

There were never “plenty of people of colour” in the EDL. They had a couple of Sikhs. Y’know. The people of colour SS always quotes to make himself not racist.

Now we have the FLA. The ‘Football Lads Alliance’. Trying to pretend they are the exact same thing.

They are fascists too.

You want us to march against the Islamists SS? Why? What the fuck would that do?

Some of us have been calling out Islamic fascism since before you’d even heard of it. The House of Saud is no lefties friend, so stop fucking pretending they are.

Now, back to your all important American politics that in no way tries to negate the radical argument over the liberal one.

Good luck y’all.
 
You're aware of the massive war waged by governments across the world against islamic terrorism, presumably?

How much help could a few thousand unarmed antifascists provide to stop that sort of extremism? Little to none, realistically.
It's a far broader issue than the localised racist political agitation that antifa typically engage and organise against.

I think that's a bit of a cop out to be honest. Isn't the whole point of the movement to disrupt the fascist process where ever it may try to rise? Given that is so and the anti-fascists can be bothered to turn up to tiny EDL marches I don't see why turning up to gatherings of radical Islamists should be off the agenda really. You know Antifa would travel to the arse end of Scotland to protest a small Nazi rally, but then they can't spare some time or energy to make it to a small radical Islamist gathering in one of our urban centres?? Again that seems like a cop out to me.

Now, to specifically address your question - antifascists are doing a lot to try to prevent islamic terrorism in the west.
One of the ways to do that is to work towards undermining and debunking the claims of islamophobia.

You're smart enough to know that Islamophobia is a contradictory propaganda phrase. It is not irrational to have legitimate concerns about a religion especially when the religion in question more than justifies those concerns, given its often violent treatment and beliefs in regards to women, homosexuals, non-muslims, apostates, etc. In my opinion the far-left seems to have this blind spot in regards to Islam, and not just the far-left but a whole chunk of liberal society, that refuses to acknowledge their may be some serious issues with this particular religion. Trying to disrupt or be violent towards those who want to voice their concerns regarding Islam seems awfully fascist to me, and I don't think it is fair to lump everyone into the Nazi category or far-right just because they have an opinion that is not automatically tolerant. Tolerant doesn't mean accepting something regardless of its faults.

Now, you mention the EDL - who are doing everything they can to marginalise muslims in british society.
This tommy robinson character is making a career for himself out of propagating anti-islamic sentiment. Have a look at his twitter page - it's all he talks about. He's a shameless opportunist and hatemonger.

People like him are one of the best recruitment tools islamic extremists have.

Q: How do people end up fucked up enough to become adherents to the sort of lunacy pushed by the likes of ISIS?

A: They end up that way through being ostracised and harassed by the sort of miserable people that take charlatans like tommy robinson seriously.

So, by treating muslims like human beings (rather than terrorists-in-the-making), and making it clear that islamophobia is stupid, musguided and ignorant, we hope to counter some of the bullying they cop from fascists and racists.

It's easy to label him for the convenience of your particular political ideology that you follow Spacejunk, but that doesn't mean you are seeing things as they actually are. Plenty of people, myself included, cast a negative judgement on him before giving him a fair hearing. Unfortunately he resembles a hooligan, he's not well spoken or intellectual by nature, just a regular working class man, but that doesn't disqualify what he has to say. The issues go back before he ever came to the scene, they were brewing in his hometown of Luton whilst he was still a school kid. Trying to pin the blame on men like him or groups that arose due to real issues occurring in their towns is convenient but not a really honest approach to what's actually happened in this country.

If muslim kids weren't so disenfranchised, "home grown terror" and the toxic religious culture that nurtures it would be far less potent.
If racist ideas weren't so prevalent in society, the radicalisation of muslim youth wouldn't be possible.

Absolute rubbish. This is the same excuse trotted out by people who claim the riots we had in the UK were because all the young people were "disenfranchised". It's absolute bullshit. Same for people who justify the actions of drug takers or criminals by saying poverty breeds their behavior. There are plenty of people from all those demographics who don't become terrorists, rioters, drug takers or petty criminals. You're making excuses here for the actions of people who refuse to accept a situation and turn their dissatisfaction into violence against innocent people. It's easy, convenient, to warp things to suit that narrative but at the end of the day it's just an excuse Spacejunk and I don't buy it.

If Islam is a religion of peace as always proclaimed then its followers should have no trouble ignoring petty calls to violence against innocent people. Turning the other cheek I believe it's called...

Have you noticed that whenever there is a terrorist attack, the far right go into overdrive? I'm sure you have noticed that...you always appear and make posts about how "something must be done" as soon as there is a terrorist attack.

You know why that is?
It's because fascists and islamic terrorists have a symbiotic relationship.

I think you'll find ordinary people are getting fed up of all these bullshit attacks on innocent people in our urban centres, but most are too afraid to speak up because people like yourself threaten violence at the worst and they also fear criticism or even losing their jobs for daring to question against the current politically correct wave.

Racist anti-islamic sentiment thrives on fear, and islamic terrorist attacks are the best recruitment tool far right groups have.
And as i've already explained, the far right also benefit the recruitment of islamic terrorist groups - both groups feed each other and feed off each other. It's a co-dependent relationship.
Every time some nutter kills people in the name of allah, the nationalists are onto it immediately - gloating and exploiting the tragedy to push their agenda.

This I won't deny. It's logical. It's how all information warfare functions, right down to the mainstream media picking a non-story and trying to spin it to sell papers or whatever. The flaw in your position is that you automatically function as judge and jury in regards to who fits into the category of fascist, hate-group or whatever, rendering any information or perspective that may be contained within those groups or experiences of those people relating to them as obsolete and irrelevant because it contradicts your position - in short, you're not being very open minded and are guarding your ideological and political position. Which is fine, but at least have the humility to acknowledge that fact when someone presents it to you.. instead of denying it and throwing it back (in my case calling me a Nazi).

If islamic terrorism disappeared tomorrow, tommy robinson would have to go back to committing mortgage fraud for a living :)
In alm seriousness, though - without islamic terror, the likes of mr robinson would be as irrelevant politically as they are intellectually.
Without scapegoats, these professional bigots would have nothing to say, and nobody to listen to them.

He only started the EDL and went down this route because of what was happening in his home town, because no one else was doing anything about it. If it all disappeared there would be no need for the EDL or Tommy, no, and they could go back to just watching football and taking care of their families. The BNP or other groups would probably still exist and find an excuse to justify their political life, because they are political entities whereas Tommy and the EDL are not (they're street movements responding directly to a problem).

I suggest you look into the murder of Mark Sharp in Luton in 1995. He was brutally beaten and later died because he was cut up by another car, gave them the finger, and then those guys got out and beat him to death all whilst his young son was present. They had weapons, got back up, and the sentences handed down were absolutely insulting. If that happened in your town, along with escalating gang violence from one community in particular, you'd be pretty fucking angry especially when the police and courts seem to do little to nothing to stop it. People got fed up of shit like that happening. Those "asians" were not disenfranchised - brutally beating a man to death over a simple road rage incident is outrageous, and if it had been the other way around (whites beating a muslim man) it would have made the national news.

The resentment and anger is born out of real life experiences, not because "far-right people hate all immigrants". There's way more to it than that simple and trite phrase.
 
The EDL were a bunch of fascists who tried to pretend they weren’t. They were basically football hooligans pretending they were what SS is claiming. They weren’t. This was soon found out.

No, they weren't. Yes there were and are football hooligans in their ranks, so what? You're trying to insinuate that either the whole movement is nothing but fascists and/or hooligans, or that somehow having hooligans in their ranks automatically disqualifies their entire premise of protest. By that logic you should disqualify Antifa and the anti-fascists.. he who is without sin cast the first stone, yeah? Or does that only apply in one direction to suit your political worldview huh.

There were never “plenty of people of colour” in the EDL. They had a couple of Sikhs. Y’know. The people of colour SS always quotes to make himself not racist.

Now we have the FLA. The ‘Football Lads Alliance’. Trying to pretend they are the exact same thing.

They are fascists too.

Everything is just so simple isn't it. All those thousands of people who marched peacefully in London the other week, every single one of them a fascist or football hooligan. Of course!

You want us to march against the Islamists SS? Why? What the fuck would that do?

Conceding defeat and finding an excuse not to before even trying to. Well done. And then you have the nerve to criticize ordinary people and label them as fascists for making the first move on this issue, all whilst left-wing soft cocks are too afraid to say or do anything about the issue and just resort to pretending there is no issue at all whilst simultaneously lambasting anyone who does try to say or do something. Bravo.

Some of us have been calling out Islamic fascism since before you’d even heard of it. The House of Saud is no lefties friend, so stop fucking pretending they are.

Oh big man, well done. So you've been talking about radicals half the world away. Congratulations. Let me know when you decide to actually stage a counter-demonstration against a radical Islamist gathering in one of our urban centres, let us know how that goes, assuming you're not beaten half to death by them.
 
SS said:
I suggest you look into the murder of Mark Sharp in Luton in 1995. He was brutally beaten and later died because he was cut up by another car, gave them the finger, and then those guys got out and beat him to death all whilst his young son was present. They had weapons, got back up, and the sentences handed down were absolutely insulting. If that happened in your town, along with escalating gang violence from one community in particular, you'd be pretty fucking angry especially when the police and courts seem to do little to nothing to stop it. People got fed up of shit like that happening. Those "asians" were not disenfranchised - brutally beating a man to death over a simple road rage incident is outrageous, and if it had been the other way around (whites beating a muslim man) it would have made the national news.

What does this have to do with fascism/anti-fascism? You're trying to justify or defend racial discrimination by referring to this 22 year old case?
 
SS said:
. Let me know when you decide to actually stage a counter-demonstration against a radical Islamist gathering in one of our urban centres, let us know how that goes, assuming you're not beaten half to death by them.

What i don't understand is why you're telling anti-fascists what they should or shouldn't oppose/campaign against - when your belief system is pretty close to the very thing we are interested in disrupting and otherwise resisting.
What do you hope to achieve?

Those "asians" were not disenfranchised - brutally beating a man to death over a simple road rage incident is outrageous, and if it had been the other way around (whites beating a muslim man) it would have made the national news.

If you're trying to make out that there is some kind of anti-anglo bias in the media, i'd suggest that's simply wrong.

If we're going to talk about murder, why not discuss tjs brutal killing of Jo Cox by a fascist anti-immigration bonehead?

This "people are fed up" angle doesn't justify islamophobia. It's just a knee-jerk response to a complex series of issues that will never be solved by ostracising muslims.
 
this is a load of hogshit.

The House of Saud is no lefties friend, so stop fucking pretending they are.

Now, back to your all important American politics that in no way tries to negate the radical argument over the liberal one.

Wait, don't go! I don't know what you meant by your critique of American politics.

Did you mean in this thread? Or you are the one returning to it?

I'm honestly curious, before all the Manhattan argle-bargle drowns everyone.

SS said:
beat him to death all whilst his young son was present . . . sentences handed down were absolutely insulting. If that happened in your town, along with escalating gang violence from one community in particular, you'd be pretty fucking angry . . . Those "asians" were not disenfranchised - brutally beating a man to death over a simple road rage incident is outrageous

Ah, to live in a country with strict gun laws, where you remember a road-rage death from 22 years ago. How has the escalation in violence by swarthy men been since then? By now all of Britain should be just one "Dangerous Game" hunt for the last innocent English Blonde.
 
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Have you even ever studied German, and Russian/Eastern European history-including modern day history? Or traveled to either Russia or Germany? Or do you know anything about modern day political parties/politics in both countries?

Extreme far right fascist sympathizers, neo-nazis, or people who lean that way politically are an extreme minority in both Europe and North America.

The Holocaust is never going to happen again. In both Germany and Russia people know all about the Nazi Holocaust, and Lenin with his acts of mass killings and prison camps, and Stalin and his GULAG prison camps, and how it will NOT be repeated ever.

I don't know how this post eluded me. Yes, I've been to Germany and to Russia when it was still the Soviet Union. National Socialists were dismissed as a lunatic fringe in Germany too until Adolph Hitler actually became chancellor in 1933. And I frankly alarmed at the rise of extreme right wing political parties in the former Eastern Bloc. Your condescension oozes from you just like it does from your television show.
 
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You know what's really mysogynistic? The people that turn a blind eye to the human rights violations committed against women in muslim countries.

Exactly, but Linda Sarsour and all the other Islamists who are not actually feminists or really for women's rights at all totally ignore and downplay this, or claim that "Islam is a religion of peace" when there's actually a large sect/faction of Islam that's extremely violent and Islam has never been reformed many times the way Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism, and all other world religions and spirituality has been.

You even have idiot leftists who know very little at all about Islam claiming that Sharia law is harmless or akin to practicing Jews who keep Kosher dietary restrictions, and they totally ignore how Islam is against women's rights since this goes against their agenda. 8(

They also are totally clueless when it comes to Islam and believe that most Muslims are "brown people" when this is not true. Most Muslims are Asian, and Caucasian/white.

Scrofula said:
My favorite part of these fantasies is about Sharia Law taking over. The horror of eating halal food. By people who won't hesitate to eat a kosher hot dog or a bagel.

Something very close to Sharia Law is practiced in the US, in New York City by the Jewish population. Because all these laws come from the same damn source, and it's in your damn bible. You all pray to the same god of the desert. Christians just choose to ignore all the cult practice.

Anyway, none of what you describe is actually happening

related thread: http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads/740519-The-Cost-of-Immigration/page9
 
Currently reading the Unite Against Fascism wiki page and it suggests a vice chairman has links to Al Queda etc, and another making the point that the group refuses to condemn antisemitism (sounds familiar.. Corbyn/Labour) or take interest in far-right radical Islamist activities.. which is my current point and question to SpaceJunk.

The likelihood of links to other more dangerous groups is high. Not because antifa etc are like that themselves necessarily but because they would be good targets for these external groups to infiltrate, subvert, and recruit from.

I am not surprised by this at all.
 
Be careful what you read. I generally think of Wikipedia as very accurate, but not infallible, and the more politically charged and recent or obscure a page is the more likely it is to have issues affecting credibility.

I'd wanna check the sources. Well actually I would go entirely off the sources cause while I find Wikipedia very accurate most people don't have as high a regard as I do.

I'm not saying it's untrue, just,I'd want to do some more digging.

A page like that, very low general interest, high political interest. It's a high risk type page to have problems.
 
Alpha Centauri's C-student said:
They also are totally clueless when it comes to Islam and believe that most Muslims are "brown people" when this is not true. Most Muslims are Asian, and Caucasian/white.

Yes, I pre-pwned this one in the NYC thread, as long as we're merging them all.
 
.

You even have idiot leftists who know very little at all about Islam claiming that Sharia law is harmless or akin to practicing Jews who keep Kosher dietary restrictions, and they totally ignore how Islam is against women's rights since this goes against their agenda. 8(

They also are totally clueless when it comes to Islam and believe that most Muslims are "brown people" when this is not true. Most Muslims are Asian, and Caucasian/white.

Uh, what?


Do you have a source for these people claiming "akin to practicing Jews who keep Kosher dietary restrictions"?
Doesn't sound like any claim i've ever heard.
It's a stupid remark, and i doubt any self respecting "leftist" would say such a thing. Perhaps you could provide a link to this claim?

if you're going to complain about "idiot leftists", you might want to include some substance in your posts.
Saying "they believe this" and listing off a bunch of weird facts that you seem to believe "leftists" think doesn't really cut it.

As for the allegation that we "idiot leftists" are "totally clueless"? Try engaging with some of the actual arguments if you'd like this claim to be taken seriously. I think when you resort to hurling empty insults and putting words in people's mouths, its pretty clear you don't have much of a point to make.
 
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