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ANTIFA attacks peaceful right wing protestors in Berkeley CA.

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Who is turning a blind eye to any such thing?
I'm saying it's disgusting to joke or gloat about it, because it's a dispicable thing to happen to someone.
You really need to consider what you're accusing me of, and ask yourself does this make sense?

I'm politely responding to people's comments, and am accused of all manner of weird off-topic stuff.

If you're trying to make out that anti-fascists are unreasonable or illogical, you're not doing a great job of it.

Objecting to racial vilification of muslims is not the same as condoning crimes committed by muslims. It's a very peculiar insinuation thay makes abaolutely no sense.

I'm really just curious if SS is going to reply to my response to his post, because i have been careful to be answer his question, and it would be a shame to see it get buried in all these odd, off-topic comments.

Maybe the article could've been more tactful but as it stands the far left in my experience seems to turn a blind eye to human rights problems in muslim countries. Believe it or not I'm actually pro-palestinian but I'm not going to act like Islamic countries are above scrutiny.
 
Nobody said they are.
Scrutiny is perfectly fine - there seems to be this perception that being anti-racist means you're an apologist for every criminal act committed by persecuted ethnic or religious groups, but that's a long way from the truth.
 
Tell me I'm wrong.

White power, black power, Islamic power, it's all the same thing. That's why I find it so ironic and a little amusing.

You're wrong Jess.

Horse Power, Girl Power, Nuclear Power. It's all the same, just different units for work over time. That's why alternating current is the same as direct current, except only one comes from massive energy companies even though they're the same.

But you can use your power of imaginationr and not have to choose sides or something.
 
Truth is, people suck. They just freaken suck. They are all so used to political bullshit they can't just be sensible and calm.

It's what I was saying before, it seems like there is a set of belief templates. So long as you follow one, there's no misunderstanding. But the more you deviate the more problems you get from people assuming you must conform to one of them.

And we all do it. I do it, cause it's true, most people DO mostly conform to the templates. And it's much faster to assume people must conform to one of them then to work out what they really believe cause most of the time what someone really believes really does mostly conform to one of the templates.

You're wrong Jess.

Horse Power, Girl Power, Nuclear Power. It's all the same, just different units for work over time. That's why alternating current is the same as direct current, except only one comes from massive energy companies even though they're the same.

But you can use your power of imaginationr and not have to choose sides or something.

High again are we?
 
Nobody said they are.
Scrutiny is perfectly fine - there seems to be this perception that being anti-racist means you're an apologist for every criminal act committed by persecuted ethnic or religious groups, but that's a long way from the truth.

But if you're anti-racist, that means you're "anti". Just like the people you attack for being anti. Same tactics! So you have no credibility. You're actually worse than them, cause you don't want them to even say their racist stuff everywhere all the time! PS: don't look at what the racists are up to.
 
One fuck up. Big fucking deal.

Also just because the one guy assaulting the cop in the photo didn't actually have any logos doesn't mean shit honestly. I've seen plenty of photos and videos of antifa members that were just dressed in all black just like that guy.

Lol...

One? That's two so far that I know. Three makes a trend.

But more convenient for you--if they look like anybody, you can post shitty photos of anybody, and call them "antifa". Maybe check where the photos came from first? Reverse image search, it's a handy tool. Find it at your nearest google.
 
Yeah sure buddy. All the photos and videos making antifa look bad are obviously all doctored by the alt right.
 
It's interesting how a thread about antifa is the place some people choose to post comments with distinctly misogynistic and racist overtones.
Islam is NOT a race, or even an ethnicity. Despite how leftists and the North American media want to depict all or even most Muslims as being "brown people" or even Arabs, there are Muslims of all races and a lot or Muslims are white/Caucasian, and Asian.

It's not misogynistic to someone to question why a woman would naively go to a country she's never been to with a culture she does not belong to and language she does not speak, with a man she does not know very well, and where the religion of that country Islam treats women as second class citizens and property of men.

I am sorry she was raped and abused but at least despite being trafficked and put into sexual slavery by her "boyfriend" she was able to escape, and not sold into prostitution, gang raped, and murdered.

She got out alive out of an extremely dangerous and abusive relationship where most people in the same situation do not make it out alive.

This is the only actual racist thing that was posted as it's a racist term/word:
Scrofula said:
Please, they use the term "kafir" and only murder the foolish feminists with irony.
 
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I don't agree that islamophobia isn't racism. Neither does this article:


How Islamophobia overlaps with racism

A new paper argues that Islamophobia represents a form of racism mixed with cultural intolerance, rather than just an issue of religious intolerance.

“We often hear that because Muslims are not a race, people cannot be racist for attacking Muslims. This argument does not stack up.”

Author Craig Considine, a lecturer in sociology at Rice University, reviewed more than 40 news articles and referenced dozens of academic studies relating to the experiences of American Muslims and the stereotypical depictions of Muslims.

His analysis revealed several findings from the various articles and research papers that support his argument that racism is a symbolic form of Islamophobia, which has been misrepresented as a form of religious bias that oppresses US Muslims on the grounds that Islam is nefarious and antithetical to American values.

“We often hear that because Muslims are not a race, people cannot be racist for attacking Muslims,” Considine says. “This argument does not stack up. It is a simplistic way of thinking that overlooks the role that race plays in Islamophobic hate crimes.”

Considine summarizes the findings below:

In 2016 alone, incidents of Islamophobia, including acts of violence and nonviolent harassment, rose by 57 percent.
More than half of hate crimes in the US in 2015—59.2 percent—were linked to a race/ethnicity/ancestry bias. Only 19.7 percent of hate crimes were linked to a religious bias, and 17.7 percent to a sexual orientation bias.
More than 50 percent of Muslims experienced some form of hostility between 2010 and 2014, and more than one-third of Muslims felt they had been targeted on the basis of being identified as Muslim.
News outlets give drastically more coverage to crimes by Muslims. Attacks by Muslim perpetrators received, on average, 449 percent more coverage than crimes carried out by non-Muslims.
Out of more than 1,000 Hollywood films depicting Arabs, 932 of these films depicted them in a stereotypical or negative light. For example, Arabs/Muslims were constructed as the ominous figure: the bearded, dark-skinned, turban-wearing terrorist. Only 12 films depicted these individuals in a positive way.
Considine says that in spite of the racialization of Islam, the population of Muslims in the US is heterogeneous.

Of the approximately 3.3 million Muslims of all ages living in the US in 2017, no single racial or ethnic group accounts for more than 30 percent of the total population. Thirty percent of US Muslims describe themselves as white, 23 percent as black, 21 percent as Asian, 6 percent as Hispanic, and 19 percent as other or mixed race. In addition, 81 percent of Muslims in the US are American citizens.

“Despite the racial, ethnic, and cultural diversity of the US Muslim population, they continue to be cast as potentially threatening persons based on perceived racial and cultural characteristics,” Considine says.

He also says the racially motivated incidents of hate crime examined in this paper—including one incident where a Sikh man in Mesa, Arizona, was shot and killed in the days following September 11 by a man who said he wanted to “kill a Muslim” in retaliation for the terrorist attacks—suggest that Islamophobia does not belong in the realm of “rational” criticism of Islam or Muslims.

In this situation, the perpetrator confused the man’s beard and turban as a representation of Islam, and effectively used his “race” to categorize and ultimately harm him in the worst way imaginable, Considine says.

“This incident and other incidents referenced in the paper are examples of how Muslims have been racialized and thus subjected to a kind of racism,” he says. “This has led to US citizens getting an idea of who the so-called ‘bad guys’ are and acting based on this knowledge.

“Taking a ‘colorblind’ understanding of Islamophobia—that is, to dismiss the role that race plays in anti-Muslim racism—legitimizes certain racialized practices and maintains inequalities such as racial profiling at airports, police brutality, housing and job discrimination, and voter disenfranchisement.”

Considine hopes the paper will raise awareness of the racialization of Islam in the US and help to counter the rising Islamophobia across the country.

“We would be misguided to dismiss the role that race plays in incidents where Muslims and non-Muslims are targeted due to stereotypes of ‘Muslim identity,'” he says. “This identity, insofar as the American context goes, appears to be weighted with racial meanings.”


Additionally, it is misogynistic to joke about a woman getting raped, and then to victim-blame her for going to Turkey.
Are you for real?
I'm lost for words.
 
spacejunk, I agree with you probably 99% of the time. But if you are claiming that all criticism of Islam is somehow rooted in racism or racial prejudice, I think that’s complete bullshit. Maybe you are saying that racism is a requisite component of the concept of “islamophobia”. If that’s what you mean, okay, but find a better article. Because that one is pretty deceptive and not at all rational or fair.
 
I don't agree that islamophobia isn't racism. Neither does this article:

So you would say a Chinese muslim is the same race a Moroccan muslim? Or for that matter what about an African American muslim? Islam is about as much of a race as being christian is. Islam is a religion with cultural overtones, not a race.

Additionally, it is misogynistic to joke about a woman getting raped, and then to victim-blame her for going to Turkey.
Are you for real?
I'm lost for words.

I'm sorry what happened to her, but her blind conviction clouded her judgement so much that she willingly threw herself into a situation she really knew nothing about and unfortunately the results turned out to be less than ideal. I mean who meets someone from another country at a protest and then later moves halfway around the globe to be with them without even really knowing them? Plus she ignored a bunch of huge red flags once she got there. I hate to victim blame but her mental aptitude honestly doesn't seem to be all there.
 
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Spacejunk, are you suggesting it's racist to think Islam is a violent, sexist religion? I'm not saying it actually IS, but are you suggesting that someone who holds that belief separate to any ethnic or racial concerns is being racist?

Cause that would be total bullshit. Someone can hate Islam, AND have racist beliefs surrounding it, but hostility to Islam itself is not racism unless we've totally abandoned any pretense of giving a shit about the words obvious intended meaning of being related to race.

Because there are many races with high Islamic populations. And rightly or wrongly, most people I've seen with hostility to Islam show it no matter what the race of the adherent, they don't seem particularly interested in any wider considerations beyond the religion itself. Which while being a mindset I don't agree with, most certainly isn't racist.

Being opposed to Islam, which I am not really any more so than any other abrahamic religion, is NOT inherently racist. Suggesting it is is entirely abandoning any pretense that the word racism still hasn't any relevance to actual race.

But whatever, people misusing the word racism is hardly anything new.

EDIT: Also I find the article retarded. You know what I think the truth is? I think people are fucking retarded as usual.

Ok so, a bunch of assholes express hate for Muslims. Some retard too limited to come up with a better description calls such people wrong because they are racist and racism is wrong.

The assholes might accept racism is wrong, so they explain, correctly, that it's not racist to hate Islam.

Then, the retards come back, and still being retarded, fail to see or articulate that the assholes are wrong and assholes in ways entirely unrelated to racism, so instead they try and distort the word racism so it encompasses the assholes. All cause they simply are too stupid to realize someone can be an intolerant ignorant prejudice asshole WITHOUT being a racist in the process.

I find it completely retarded. Not every form of bullshit intolerance has to be warped into racism. The only reason people desire to do so is because once they can they think they win by default. They think if they can define it as racism, since racism is almost universally condemned, the intolerant assholes will be condemned too.

So we have this retarded discussion of if it's racist or not all the fucking time, which it isn't, all cause people stupidly think that if it's intolerance it MUST be racist, because people are retarded and think I'm very simple terms. Racism = bad, not racist = good. Ergo I must prove islamophobia is racism because if I don't I'm saying it's NOT racist and by saying it's not racist I'm saying it's acceptable.

And in the process of doing this we entirely drown out a much more intelligent discussion about how it can be wrong WITHOUT being racist.

PS spacejunk the above rant isn't directed at you, not yet anyway. It's directed at the whole retarded phenomenon of arguing about if something that clearly isn't racist is racist or not. In every form that phenomenon manifests itself.

If you're making some more abstract argument that racist beliefs always or almost always form part of islamophobia in some way where it might as well be racist. Well there's probably an element of truth to that. But not so much that it's worth arguing if it's racist or not.

It still comes down to the word racist being easy and catchy and almost universally negative and let's face it, "religionist" or "religious intolerance" just doesn't have the same punch. So people are driven to find ways to use it to encompass absolutely any intolerance, good bad, right or wrong, that they disagree with. And THAT, is retarded.
 
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i'm saying that religious prejudice and discrimination against muslims are both the same sort of bigotry, yes.

the way anti-muslim prejudice is expressed, is in racism.

think of the slurs you hear for muslims. they're usually racial epithets, with little to do with faith.
and we're not talking about "criticising a religion". we're talking about saying - to paraphrase - "if a woman goes to [a muslim-majority country] she's practically asking to get raped".

the assumption that "muslims = rape" is exactly the same as any other crude ethnic generalisation. you don't have to literally refer to a race to be racist. you want an example?

if i said "all french people are cunts" - that's racist, right? but french people aren't a race.

how about those dumb americans too, eh? stereotypes suck.


Maybe you are saying that racism is a requisite component of the concept of “islamophobia”. If that’s what you mean, okay, but find a better article


yeah, now that you mention it, the article isn't great, but i'm kinda tired of responding to the same arguments over and over again, it gets a bit dull typing shit out when most people don't seem to read detailed posts.
 
So basically you're saying the word racism has evolved and now should be accepted as valid for other forms of bigotry.

That's actually a really compelling argument I'll admit. I mean I still think the fact and reasons the word has developed like this are retarded, but there's little denying that it's quickly becoming the predominant way the words used.

Ok, you win. It's still retarded, but what can I say. Words are defined by majority consensus, the majority are retarded.

But in protest for the stupid reasons the definition changed, I'm not changing how I use the word any time soon. But as a rule I don't argue the meaning of words. I'll argue that Islam isn't a race with you all day long, but if you're gonna go and argue that it's irrelivent and it's still racism because thats how people use the word now. Damn. Nicely done. I can't argue that.

EDIT: Oh and by the way, no, I personally would NOT say that saying all French are cunts is racist. But I'm sure many would. What can I say, I only turned 29 a couple weeks ago and my way of using words is already becoming out of date. Like old people who call black people negros or something. How depressing.
 
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the definition never changed, it's just the nature of anti-islamic sentiment.
it's based more on racism and xenophobia and ethnic steretypes than even the vaguest undersyanding of islam.

islamophobia is not directed at islam, it's directed at muslims. call it xenophobia if you want to nitpick over semantics, but it's there is so much overlap that they're (for all intents and purposes) the same thing.
 
Regardless you're definitions clearly different to mine. Like I said, I don't think calling all French people cunts is racist. I think a lot of people would call it racist, but that's not how I define it.

I would say the meaning most certainly has changed. I would say historically racism means prejudice on the basis of race and race alone. French isn't a race. Muslim isn't a race. But for all the retarded reasons I said earlier, it's quite evident the words meaning is changing. One day it'll likely mean almost any kind of prejudice intolerance.

Dude I just admitted you beat me in an argument so if I misunderstood your argument maybe you should just roll with it :D
 
i'm saying that religious prejudice and discrimination against muslims are both the same sort of bigotry, yes.

the way anti-muslim prejudice is expressed, is in racism.

think of the slurs you hear for muslims. they're usually racial epithets, with little to do with faith.
and we're not talking about "criticising a religion". we're talking about saying - to paraphrase - "if a woman goes to [a muslim-majority country] she's practically asking to get raped".

the assumption that "muslims = rape" is exactly the same as any other crude ethnic generalisation. you don't have to literally refer to a race to be racist. you want an example?

if i said "all french people are cunts" - that's racist, right? but french people aren't a race.

how about those dumb americans too, eh? stereotypes suck.





yeah, now that you mention it, the article isn't great, but i'm kinda tired of responding to the same arguments over and over again, it gets a bit dull typing shit out when most people don't seem to read detailed posts.

I get your frustration, but don’t let that keep you from making quality arguments. Racism is a particularly vile and insidious form of prejudice. All racism is prejudice but not all prejudice is racism...simple as that. The comment about women bringing rape on themselves based on where they go is definitely misogynistic. Not racist, but still bad. “All French people...”, “all fat people”, “all country music fans”. That’s stereotyping. Maybe prejudiced, maybe ignorant or misinformed. Not racist.
 
Out of curiosity I checked a few dictionaries.

According to them, the French being cunts or thinking Islam is a religion of violence and misogyny and therefore so are it's faithful adherents is NOT racist.

That said, give it another 20 years, I bet if you look in a dictionary from 2040 the definition will be a lot more flexible. By 2080 the current definition might have (archaic) written before it.
 
For the record, I definitely am anti-Islam. I’m also anti-Christianity. Anti-religion in general. I respect religious people’s right to practice their religion all the way up to the point where it starts to affect me. At that point, I have a huge problem. I pride myself in being a rational yet compassionate person and that’s who I will continue to be. Misrepresent my intentions however you wish. I believe in the strength of my reasoned arguments. I’ve been turning people away from religion since the eighth grade.
 
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