ANTIFA attacks peaceful right wing protestors in Berkeley CA.

[spacejunk]

If you do that, all you get is really absurd alt-right garbage.

If you want a quality documentary about antifa, i'd recommend this:

[video=youtube_share;EfDbTgb6uyc]http://youtu.be/EfDbTgb6uyc[/video]

It's not sensationalist, it just tells a story. It's an interesting film, i'd recommend it.

 

[Deleted member 210577]

I hate violence, but when your opponents use street violence as a tactic (always have, and probably always will - KKK, nazi brownshirts, neo-nazi skins, though to today's "proud boys" and fucking "identity europa" or whatever they call themselves) the political battle has to be fought on the streets.

So how does that compute with the EDL for example. They are a street protest movement, non-political with no aim to or hope of achieving political momentum, yet right from their inception they've been targeted by anti-fascists whenever they try to hold a march or gathering. This a bunch of ordinary people, literally all sorts and colours, yet are confronted and in many cases attacked first by the anti-fascists.. just for being where they are and having the nerve to make a fuss about real issues that are affecting towns up and down the country.

I'd still like you to respond to my earlier post today about why the North London Antifa twitter page has time to post numerous pro-palestinian tweets, some anti-israel tweets, and slate on the EDL given what I've just said in the previous paragraph. If it's all just about Nazis then really there shouldn't be any link or endorsement of anti-israel sentiment or antisemitism.

 

[spacejunk]

If it's all just about Nazis then really there shouldn't be any link or endorsement of anti-israel sentiment or antisemitism.

You seriously need me to explain to you how anti-israeli sentiment is not the sams as anti-semitism?
Really?

I'm not sure why you're saying "there really shouldn't be" some specific sort of political commentary seems a little odd to me.
This is an autonomous movement, as i've said many times before - and if you're going to condense the incredibly complicated israel/palestine issue down to such an overly simplified link to nazism, you render the topic meaningless as a result.

There is nothing remotely anti-semitic about being anti-zionist.

 

[Scrofula]

EDL = English Defense League maybe? Maybe your version of Army/Navy games? Or a bunch of guys who hate non-whites immigrants. Even the name is nationalist.

I'm guessing you support right-wing Israeli politics--it includes open hatred of Islam and gives you a "not anti-semite" card. Some people would call things like expanding settlements fascist, or building fences to isolate groups of people. So not too far off for an antifa group.

But yeah, really stretches what should be allowed for an antifa group to post on their twitter feed. Almost invalidates the whole movement. Maybe you could push to have that stuff penalized, and police escorts for ranking EDL members? Probably don't want a public referendum though, could bring out the rowdy antifa people or even Muslims. Speaking of which, you should include a bit about how since Israel's doing so well, all the Jews should go back.

 

[Deleted member 210577]

You seriously need me to explain to you how anti-israeli sentiment is not the sams as anti-semitism?
Really?

I'm not sure why you're saying "there really shouldn't be" some specific sort of political commentary seems a little odd to me.
This is an autonomous movement, as i've said many times before - and if you're going to condense the incredibly complicated israel/palestine issue down to such an overly simplified link to nazism, you render the topic meaningless as a result.

There is nothing remotely anti-semitic about being anti-zionist.

I want you to address the line of questioning I'm making, not fabricate a non-point out of my writing - I'm well aware of the difference between being antisemitic and someone who is anti-zionist, thanks.

I'm willing to concede that Antifa and the anti-fascist crowd can be allowed to take a stance on the political decisions of Israel as a nation, and now I want you to tell me why it is that they do not take a similar stance of opposing the radical Islamist activities that are occurring in Western nations. If they're going to protest and voice opposition to one but not the other I think that deserves a clear and reasonable answer, don't you? Without a reasonable justification as to why there is this difference in support/opposition it starts to look mighty hypocritical at best, and potentially dangerous at worst as PriestTheyCalledHim alluded too.

EDL = English Defense League maybe? Maybe your version of Army/Navy games? Or a bunch of guys who hate non-whites immigrants. Even the name is nationalist.

I'm guessing you support right-wing Israeli politics--it includes open hatred of Islam and gives you a "not anti-semite" card. Some people would call things like expanding settlements fascist, or building fences to isolate groups of people. So not too far off for an antifa group.

Judging by the fact your location says California I'm willing to bet you don't actually know the details beyond what you've seen in the mainstream media regarding the EDL, who they are and what they're really about. Right-wing hate group is no doubt the image floating around in your head. The EDL is made up of regular people who got fed up with what was occurring their towns across the UK, in particular regarding the Muslim community and the gangs, drugs, prostitution, and as we've seen in recent times the grooming gangs. They are real fucking issues, OK? Understand? There's plenty of people of colour and different backgrounds in the EDL and the associated groups like that - it's not about non-white immigrants, that's the label the media continually likes to push because they simply will not address the real issues with the Muslim community in this country, because they're afraid to do so (for politically correct reasons, and because there are genuinely fucking dangerous people in that community). The politicians won't either, and neither will the police.. because they're too afraid as well.

I don't know enough about Israeli politics to even tell you what right or left policies they have. There's clearly issues with settlements and expansion, it's a ridiculous situation that's never going to go away as Israel is a small territory to begin with. I'm not some rabid pro-Israel person, but I'm not pro-palestinian either, there's issues with both sides and it's not that clear cut. The only thing I'll say for certain is that whoever thought it would be a good idea to place all the Jewish people there by force, surrounded by people and cultures who hate Jews, was probably a sadistic bastard with an ulterior motive.

 

[Scrofula]

If you don't know about Israeli politics, how do you know it's inappropriate for antifa groups to tweet about? Even if it wasn't, so what? Can your antifa group post about it's feelings on processed pork product condiments? If they do, does it invalidate any other point they've made about anything? Oh, wait, right, it invalidates everything Mr. Junk has ever said about them. But I think he meant "in general". I know some folks get upset when people just assume they were referring to every last individual.

I hadn't heard of the UK English Defense League, but we have various versions of the same fucking thing here in California, and not just to establish an official language. So OK, I understand, I've heard it longer than you have. We get to vote on wedge issues every election, it's just they're Catholic Latinos over here instead of Muslims.

Except, my city is already over 50% Latino, so I just sit back in minority status being totally okay with that. Did you know that the health clinic I use, for poor people, even calls out the numbers in Spanish? Say my name funny too. Es-cro FOO-la.




ETA: Guess I was wrong, you were trying to goad him on the Mexicans Muslims again.

 

[spacejunk]

m willing to concede that Antifa and the anti-fascist crowd can be allowed to take a stance on the political decisions of Israel as a nation, and now I want you to tell me why it is that they do not take a similar stance of opposing the radical Islamist activities that are occurring in Western nations. If they're going to protest and voice opposition to one but not the other I think that deserves a clear and reasonable answer, don't you? Without a reasonable justification as to why there is this difference in support/opposition it starts to look mighty hypocritical at best, and potentially dangerous at worst as PriestTheyCalledHim alluded too.

You're aware of the massive war waged by governments across the world against islamic terrorism, presumably?

How much help could a few thousand unarmed antifascists provide to stop that sort of extremism? Little to none, realistically.
It's a far broader issue than the localised racist political agitation that antifa typically engage and organise against.

Antifa-aligned kurdish factions are actually fighting ISIS in Syria and Iraq, and quite a few western antifascists have travelled to join them.

Now, to specifically address your question - antifascists are doing a lot to try to prevent islamic terrorism in the west.
One of the ways to do that is to work towards undermining and debunking the claims of islamophobia.

Now, you mention the EDL - who are doing everything they can to marginalise muslims in british society.
This tommy robinson character is making a career for himself out of propagating anti-islamic sentiment. Have a look at his twitter page - it's all he talks about. He's a shameless opportunist and hatemonger.

People like him are one of the best recruitment tools islamic extremists have.

Q: How do people end up fucked up enough to become adherents to the sort of lunacy pushed by the likes of ISIS?

A: They end up that way through being ostracised and harassed by the sort of miserable people that take charlatans like tommy robinson seriously.

So, by treating muslims like human beings (rather than terrorists-in-the-making), and making it clear that islamophobia is stupid, musguided and ignorant, we hope to counter some of the bullying they cop from fascists and racists.

If muslim kids weren't so disenfranchised, "home grown terror" and the toxic religious culture that nurtures it would be far less potent.
If racist ideas weren't so prevalent in society, the radicalisation of muslim youth wouldn't be possible.

Have you noticed that whenever there is a terrorist attack, the far right go into overdrive? I'm sure you have noticed that...you always appear and make posts about how "something must be done" as soon as there is a terrorist attack.

You know why that is?
It's because fascists and islamic terrorists have a symbiotic relationship.

Racist anti-islamic sentiment thrives on fear, and islamic terrorist attacks are the best recruitment tool far right groups have.
And as i've already explained, the far right also benefit the recruitment of islamic terrorist groups - both groups feed each other and feed off each other. It's a co-dependent relationship.
Every time some nutter kills people in the name of allah, the nationalists are onto it immediately - gloating and exploiting the tragedy to push their agenda.

If islamic terrorism disappeared tomorrow, tommy robinson would have to go back to committing mortgage fraud for a living
In alm seriousness, though - without islamic terror, the likes of mr robinson would be as irrelevant politically as they are intellectually.
Without scapegoats, these professional bigots would have nothing to say, and nobody to listen to them.

Wouldn't that be nice?

 

[JessFR]

Umm. You DO know that the reason fascists become fascists is usually all the same psychological issues that cause people to become any kind of extremist including Isis supporters.

I dunno if you have before, but if you haven't you might wanna read some of the stuff people who've left white power and similar groups have had to say about how the ended up there and how by understanding that they hope to drive other people to leave.

You strike me as someone who would have a lot more sympathy and understanding for the reasons Islamic extremists become Islamic extremists, but a lot less for extremists of other types closer to home.

Tell me I'm wrong.

It's all one and the same, we are all human and all have the same core way of thinking and evolved belief patterns. Extremism is just an expression of it, and the key to stopping any of it, no matter how it manifests, is understanding it. As it is with fixing any problem.

White power, black power, Islamic power, it's all the same thing. That's why I find it so ironic and a little amusing.

And that's how antifa can look so similar to fascism. It's the same psychological drivers for both, so the rhetoric comes out sounding similar when you have no loyalty or identification with either as I don't to twist one into sounding acceptable and the other not.

Anyone can be sucked into extremism with the right drivers and the right psychological context. You and I included.

 

[spacejunk]

I'm not sure what you're implying here, or why you are always trying to spin my considered explanations into something sinister and cynical.

 

[JessFR]

Ok I know this post is ages old but I was too busy being a junkie at the beginning of September to see it then and accidentally wound up on the first page by mistake today.

So, I know it's making fun of MY point, but man that shits hilarious. I love it. :D

I'm not sure what you're implying here, or why you are always trying to spin my considered explanations into something sinister and cynical.

I'm not man, I'm trying to get you to consider things you might not have. If you saw someone and thought they were slowly becoming the thing they have always been against, wouldn't you feel compelled to say something? You might not agree, but you don't have too, it's how it looks to me.

There's a reason I make an effort not to get too hostile with what I say to you. And a reason I bother to keep saying anything at all. It's cause I think you're a good person with mistaken beliefs. If I thought you were an asshole with no hope of changing your mind, I'd have given up long ago.

EDIT: oh, and what I was implying, or rather what I was asking, is if perhaps you might be far more understanding of say, Islamic extremists, than extremists closer to home. You see it all the time. People putting stock in some bullshit eastern medicine but dismissing the obvious bullshit medicine of western origin, in short, being more open minded about the more foreign than the more familiar. Basically the opposite extreme of most people most of the time.

So in this case, being far more open to the psychology behind Islamic extremists and wanting to understand it even if you're opposed to it, than you'd be to say, white power nazis locally. Even though the same underlying psychological motivations of the Islamists apply to the local extremists.

It wasn't an implication, it was a question. I mean obviously by asking I already think the answer quite well could be yes, but the idea was more that maybe you'd think about it yourself. I don't know the answer, like I said I have assumptions of course, but I don't know, that's why I asked.

You said..

Q: How do people end up fucked up enough to become adherents to the sort of lunacy pushed by the likes of ISIS?

A: They end up that way through being ostracised and harassed by the sort of miserable people that take charlatans like tommy robinson seriously.

So, by treating muslims like human beings (rather than terrorists-in-the-making), and making it clear that islamophobia is stupid, musguided and ignorant, we hope to counter some of the bullying they cop from fascists and racists.

Which I entirely agree with. Hence I ask, do you put that kind of considered thought into how people become fascists and nazis and so forth? Are you perhaps more understanding of foreign extremist thinking than you are of local extremist thinking? Most left inclined people are.

It's not spin or trying to make it sound sinister, it's an honest question.

 

[nuttynutskin]

Whoops...

Antifa Chick Goes to Turkey With Muslim Loverboy, Gets Raped and Beaten

May 3, 2017 by Cristina Laila 1248 Comment

Lacy MacAuley is a well known radical left-wing Antifa organizer in Washington D.C. She was featured in Project Veritas’ undercover videos which exposed the #DisruptJ20 plot to violently disrupt President Trump’s inauguration.

Just like every other lunatic leftist, Lacy fell in love with Islam and became obsessed with helping Syrian ‘refugees’, wholeheartedly believing that Islam is the religion of peace. MacAuley details her experience dating a Turkish Muslim man, describing the hell and fear she lived in because he controlled every move she made, beat and raped her.

Islam is still the ‘religion of peace’, eh Lacy?

I am a radical activist based in Washington DC. I fell in love with an energetic, charismatic activist I met in November when I was present to write about resistance to the G20 Summit, a global event in Antalya, Turkey. After I came home to the US, we talked every day. He was lovely and charming, I thought at the time. He offered a ready smile, engaging kindness, and intelligent conversation. He said all the right things to convince me that he cared about women’s rights and activism. In February, I decided to return to Turkey with the promise of love driving me forward. I couldn’t have known things would turn sour.
The first two weeks were quite the love story. I observed that he was drinking heavily, and called him an “alky,” but it was just a joke at first. We went to the beach and historic sites, and he introduced me to his friends. All seemed to be going well, and I felt that the romance was solidly moving forward.
Then came our first fight. I had wanted to interview a local woman for an article on Syrian refugees. He did not approve. He knew the woman and did not like her, so he strictly forbade me from speaking with her. After I questioned his rationale, he yelled and stormed out of the room to go smoke a cigarette. I just stood in the middle of the room not knowing what to do. Of course, as a Western woman, no one had ever forbidden me from speaking with anyone else. It was a strange feeling: Don’t I have a mouth to speak? Why can I not use it as I wish?

MacAuley brings up feminism 101 which should have prevented her from dating a Muslim in the first place, but liberalism is a mental disorder so we shouldn’t expect her to be thinking logically…

This is elementary feminism. No man has the power to silence a woman, just because he is a man. How far backwards things would slide in the coming weeks.
What I found over the next few weeks was absolute frustration of my efforts to do my advocacy work. I had put myself in a place of dependence upon a person who, as it turned out, would have liked to keep me by his side and control my every move. He hindered, rather than helped, the work I tried to do there.

MacAuley learned what true Islam is versus what her leftist professors taught her…

Things deteriorated rapidly. His insecurity and childishness got worse. In the following weeks, I was violently pushed, blocked from leaving freely, and repeatedly told not to speak. If I spoke anyway, anger erupted. I endured threats that I would be burnt with cigarettes, flinching as he “faked” with his lit cigarette. I had to duck to avoid having sharp objects thrown at my face. I had water angrily poured over my head.
Unwanted sex? Rape? All the time. He did not stop to determine whether I consented to sex. Several times, he turned off my wifi and lied about it, a modern-day form of gaslighting. He verbally criticized me for using social media, my main link to the rest of my life back in the US, and tried to discourage me from using it. He forced me to unfriend one Turkish man on Facebook, and wanted me to unfriend many more.

MacAuley was even jailed by Turkish police because she was a Western journalist..

Two days later, however, I was jailed by Turkish police for several hours when I tried to simply enter a large public speech in Antalya by the president of Turkey. (They make a habit of jailing reporters and activists, and I didn’t look like I fit their norms. I wrote about this experience with the Turkish police here.) I had an “out of the frying pan and into the fire” sensation.

There is much more posted on her blog which you can read here. This is leftism in a nutshell. This woman was in denial the whole time. She still kept believing this Turkish Muslim man believed in women’s rights because ‘he said he did’. No matter how many times he beat and raped her, she still ‘saw the silver lining in her activism’.
MacAuley continues to push for left-wing totalitarianism here in the U.S. because her being arrested in Turkey wasn’t a wake up call. At least she is consistent and lives up to the reputation liberals have of being mentally ill.

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2017/05/antifa-chick-goes-turkey-muslim-loverboy-gets-raped-beaten/

 

[spacejunk]

What a fucking disgusting article. Gloating about rape; how charming.

 

[alasdairm]

with the sarcastic “whoops”, you seem almost happy a woman was raped because it validates your opinion?

that is so desperately sad to me.

alasdair

 

[PriestTheyCalledHim]

Whoops...

Antifa Chick Goes to Turkey With Muslim Loverboy, Gets Raped and Beaten
May 3, 2017 by Cristina Laila 1248 Comment

Lacy MacAuley is a well known radical left-wing Antifa organizer in Washington D.C. She was featured in Project Veritas’ undercover videos which exposed the #DisruptJ20 plot to violently disrupt President Trump’s inauguration.

Just like every other lunatic leftist, Lacy fell in love with Islam and became obsessed with helping Syrian ‘refugees’, wholeheartedly believing that Islam is the religion of peace. MacAuley details her experience dating a Turkish Muslim man, describing the hell and fear she lived in because he controlled every move she made, beat and raped her.

Islam is still the ‘religion of peace’, eh Lacy?

I am a radical activist based in Washington DC. I fell in love with an energetic, charismatic activist I met in November when I was present to write about resistance to the G20 Summit, a global event in Antalya, Turkey. After I came home to the US, we talked every day. He was lovely and charming, I thought at the time. He offered a ready smile, engaging kindness, and intelligent conversation. He said all the right things to convince me that he cared about women’s rights and activism. In February, I decided to return to Turkey with the promise of love driving me forward. I couldn’t have known things would turn sour.
The first two weeks were quite the love story. I observed that he was drinking heavily, and called him an “alky,” but it was just a joke at first. We went to the beach and historic sites, and he introduced me to his friends. All seemed to be going well, and I felt that the romance was solidly moving forward.
Then came our first fight. I had wanted to interview a local woman for an article on Syrian refugees. He did not approve. He knew the woman and did not like her, so he strictly forbade me from speaking with her. After I questioned his rationale, he yelled and stormed out of the room to go smoke a cigarette. I just stood in the middle of the room not knowing what to do. Of course, as a Western woman, no one had ever forbidden me from speaking with anyone else. It was a strange feeling: Don’t I have a mouth to speak? Why can I not use it as I wish?

MacAuley brings up feminism 101 which should have prevented her from dating a Muslim in the first place, but liberalism is a mental disorder so we shouldn’t expect her to be thinking logically…

This is elementary feminism. No man has the power to silence a woman, just because he is a man. How far backwards things would slide in the coming weeks.
What I found over the next few weeks was absolute frustration of my efforts to do my advocacy work. I had put myself in a place of dependence upon a person who, as it turned out, would have liked to keep me by his side and control my every move. He hindered, rather than helped, the work I tried to do there.

MacAuley learned what true Islam is versus what her leftist professors taught her…

Things deteriorated rapidly. His insecurity and childishness got worse. In the following weeks, I was violently pushed, blocked from leaving freely, and repeatedly told not to speak. If I spoke anyway, anger erupted. I endured threats that I would be burnt with cigarettes, flinching as he “faked” with his lit cigarette. I had to duck to avoid having sharp objects thrown at my face. I had water angrily poured over my head.
Unwanted sex? Rape? All the time. He did not stop to determine whether I consented to sex. Several times, he turned off my wifi and lied about it, a modern-day form of gaslighting. He verbally criticized me for using social media, my main link to the rest of my life back in the US, and tried to discourage me from using it. He forced me to unfriend one Turkish man on Facebook, and wanted me to unfriend many more.

MacAuley was even jailed by Turkish police because she was a Western journalist..

Two days later, however, I was jailed by Turkish police for several hours when I tried to simply enter a large public speech in Antalya by the president of Turkey. (They make a habit of jailing reporters and activists, and I didn’t look like I fit their norms. I wrote about this experience with the Turkish police here.) I had an “out of the frying pan and into the fire” sensation.

There is much more posted on her blog which you can read here. This is leftism in a nutshell. This woman was in denial the whole time. She still kept believing this Turkish Muslim man believed in women’s rights because ‘he said he did’. No matter how many times he beat and raped her, she still ‘saw the silver lining in her activism’.
MacAuley continues to push for left-wing totalitarianism here in the U.S. because her being arrested in Turkey wasn’t a wake up call. At least she is consistent and lives up to the reputation liberals have of being mentally ill.

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2017/05/antifa-chick-goes-turkey-muslim-loverboy-gets-raped-beaten/

She's very lucky she was not murdered for being an "Infidel".

 

[spacejunk]

It's interesting how a thread about antifa is the place some people choose to post comments with distinctly misogynistic and racist overtones.

 

[JessFR]

Funny thing about "religion of peace", not Islam, the actual phrase, "religion of peace". As I recall, it started when George Bush said Islam was a "peaceful religion". He didn't actually use the term religion of peace, but it kinda got lost in translation when the right pounced on it to use it derisively ever since. Funny though that it started with Bush of all people and that he was being serious at that.

I once was reading snopes about bush myths, I found it interesting that most of the negative ones about him were false but many of the positive ones about him were true. I mean, I've never supported bush, I didn't like his presidency, I didn't agree with a lot of his policy and even more of his politics. But I really think he got a bad rap. I don't think he's a bad guy, you know, like the guy we've got now. Bad president, but not a bad guy.

Annnnyhow, spacejunk I answered you but it might have gotten buried being the last post of the last page immediately followed by nuttys. Which I agree was in poor taste.

I mean, I do think it is, to be very polite, somewhat unwise to run off to turkey as a woman essentially by yourself, even keeping in mind turkey is generally considered a very progressive Muslim country. Granted this is kinda a worst case scenario. And certainly not one that's impossible the other way around. And let's be honest here, pretty much everything she describes is shit that happens every day here in the west too. Muslim countries have abusive men too, who'd have thought.

Really I think the problem here is people going to extremes again. Picking a viewpoint, Islam good Islam bad, then trying to find everything they can to validate it. When the truth is neither extreme. Middle eastern Islamic culture is very different to western culture. The place of women is not the same. There is some truth to this. But neither is it right to be blind of the differences and the negative realities that go on anymore than it is right to go to the opposite extreme.

Moderates ftw.

 

[nuttynutskin]

with the sarcastic “whoops”, you seem almost happy a woman was raped because it validates your opinion?

that is so desperately sad to me.

alasdair

Yeah that's exactly it. I'm overcome with joy. People seriously need to read between lines. She put herself in harms way trusting in the foreigner because of how blinded by leftist ideology she was.

 

[nuttynutskin]

It's interesting how a thread about antifa is the place some people choose to post comments with distinctly misogynistic and racist overtones.

You know what's really mysogynistic? The people that turn a blind eye to the human rights violations committed against women in muslim countries.

 

[spacejunk]

Who is turning a blind eye to any such thing?
I'm saying it's disgusting to joke or gloat about it, because it's a dispicable thing to happen to someone.
You really need to consider what you're accusing me of, and ask yourself does this make sense?

I'm politely responding to people's comments, and am accused of all manner of weird off-topic stuff.

If you're trying to make out that anti-fascists are unreasonable or illogical, you're not doing a great job of it.

Objecting to racial vilification of muslims is not the same as condoning crimes committed by muslims. It's a very peculiar insinuation thay makes abaolutely no sense.

I'm really just curious if SS is going to reply to my response to his post, because i have been careful to be answer his question, and it would be a shame to see it get buried in all these odd, off-topic comments.

 

[JessFR]

^^^

On that note, like I said I replied to your question too on the last page but it got buried too.

It's frustrating, when a thread nears the end of the page, it's easy for the last post of the page to be missed. But on the other hand, if you time it right and get to be the first post of the next page, it goes from invisible to highly visible. So when you get to the end of a page, it pays to check if you're gonna write a lengthy post if it's gonna be the last post of the page or the first post of the next.