Foreigner
Bluelighter
I already said it's not genetic. I said it's learned.
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P&S Moderators: JackARoe | Cheshire_Kat
Anti-Narcissism
- Thread starter Frog Dreams
- Start date
I already said it's not genetic. I said it's learned.
I wouldn't be so sure about that. Many psychiatric disorders have both genetic and environmental contributions. Nature AND nature
Study shows Narcissistic Personality Disorder may have a biological component - UChicago Medicine
A study led by University of Chicago Medicine psychiatrist and personality disorder specialist Royce Lee, MD, found there may be a biological component to Narcissistic Personality Disorder.
Huntcheeri0
Greenlighter
I definitely agree about not targeting individuals. But I'd argue people are often "anti-narcissist" because that behavior is not only viewed as strange by society (no different than autism etc etc), but because the behavior presents as far more externally negative in a fashion that's far easier to find offense with. People with autism are rarely trying to force a power dynamic onto other people, if anything it makes it easier for society to infantilize them. Whereas a lot of the aspects of APD/NPD are just harder to empathize with. I think though people can maybe feel bad for people going through mania, it's because that state is delusional, and on the other hand the lucidity of ASPD/NPD is off-putting.
The Etiology of Narcissism: A Review of Behavioral Genetic Studies
A great deal of research has delved into the etiology of narcissism via behavioral genetic methodologies in recent years. These studies have established that genetic factors contribute substantially to (1) the variations of various types of narcissism, (2) the...
A Behavioral Genetic Study of Intrapersonal and Interpersonal Dimensions of Narcissism
Narcissism, characterized by grandiose self-image and entitled feelings to others, has been increasingly prevalent in the past decades. This study examined genetic and environmental bases of two dimensions of narcissism: intrapersonal grandiosity and interpersonal entitlement. A total of 304...
Frankly, this isn't a new idea. Essentially all mental health disorders have some genetic influence
I refuse to view autism in the same way as sociopaths and narcissists, autistic people don't have a choice.
Nobody has a choice in their mental illness
Foreigner
Bluelighter
I wouldn't be so sure about that. Many psychiatric disorders have both genetic and environmental contributions. Nature AND nature
Study shows Narcissistic Personality Disorder may have a biological component - UChicago Medicine
A study led by University of Chicago Medicine psychiatrist and personality disorder specialist Royce Lee, MD, found there may be a biological component to Narcissistic Personality Disorder.www.uchicagomedicine.org
Studies are interesting but unless they build toward a professional consensus, they are just food for thought. The current consensus is NPD is acquired, along with all the cluster B personality disorders.
Jabberwocky
Frumious Bandersnatch
I agree with mostly everything I've read in this thread.
I think that from what I'm hearing, the two main differing points are that NPD is an illness vs an adaptation, which aren't even mutually exclusive so we're all sort of right.
It's my understanding, that empathy, on a spectrum, starts at birth, and can either learned or suppressed as one experiences life. As in, I believe we start with a baseline (not much or a lot) and that can change over time. Like a psychopath who starts to see benefit for himself and others in learning cognitive empathy or a more naturally empathetic person who suppresses feelings because of chronic insecurities that are only overcome by projecting and ultimately hurting and bringing down others. Or a bit of both.
At the end of the day.. people are people and I don't think anyone slides, climbs or is cut out from the female womb with an unprovoked and instinctive desire to kill the doctor.
I think that from what I'm hearing, the two main differing points are that NPD is an illness vs an adaptation, which aren't even mutually exclusive so we're all sort of right.
It's my understanding, that empathy, on a spectrum, starts at birth, and can either learned or suppressed as one experiences life. As in, I believe we start with a baseline (not much or a lot) and that can change over time. Like a psychopath who starts to see benefit for himself and others in learning cognitive empathy or a more naturally empathetic person who suppresses feelings because of chronic insecurities that are only overcome by projecting and ultimately hurting and bringing down others. Or a bit of both.
At the end of the day.. people are people and I don't think anyone slides, climbs or is cut out from the female womb with an unprovoked and instinctive desire to kill the doctor.
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Frog Dreams
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Sep 17, 2023
- Messages
- 433
@someguyontheinternet
Had a long day at work. You responded for me, in the same way I would've responded. Saved me some time. Thank you.
@Foreigner
Sounds like you're diagnosing people? Have you had experience interacting with anyone with a formal diagnosis?
I'm not going to respond to all of your comments, because you're being toxic towards me again (and @someguyontheinternet largely saved me the trouble)... but this one - quoted above - stood out.
You seemingly misunderstood a lot of stuff in this thread.
I think @Jennn was saying that Afghani people became an outlet for her anger. You have still yet to answer the question of whether or not you've known someone with a formal NPD diagnosis, so - clearly - the answer is no... which means you're hating on a group of people that you don't even know. This is eerily reminiscent of racism.
I never said severely autistic people are the same as people with NPD, but I'd much rather hang out with the latter group. Have you ever spent time with severely autistic people?
When I'm spending time with someone, I don't care if they're being an asshole because of nurture or nature. I don't care if it's a disease or not. I don't care if they are "choosing" to do it, either, regardless of whether or not I believe in free will.
What about people with brain injuries who had car accidents after driving drunk? They weren't born like that. The condition is (arguably) their own fault, if you happen to believe in free will and fault.
What about alcoholic dementia? Same thing. Right?
Ugh. I never said any such thing.
Improve your comprehension... and maybe tone down your angry self-righteous ramblings?
Had a long day at work. You responded for me, in the same way I would've responded. Saved me some time. Thank you.
@Foreigner
Sounds like you're diagnosing people? Have you had experience interacting with anyone with a formal diagnosis?
Jnowhere said:
I'm not going to respond to all of your comments, because you're being toxic towards me again (and @someguyontheinternet largely saved me the trouble)... but this one - quoted above - stood out.
You seemingly misunderstood a lot of stuff in this thread.
I think @Jennn was saying that Afghani people became an outlet for her anger. You have still yet to answer the question of whether or not you've known someone with a formal NPD diagnosis, so - clearly - the answer is no... which means you're hating on a group of people that you don't even know. This is eerily reminiscent of racism.
I never said severely autistic people are the same as people with NPD, but I'd much rather hang out with the latter group. Have you ever spent time with severely autistic people?
When I'm spending time with someone, I don't care if they're being an asshole because of nurture or nature. I don't care if it's a disease or not. I don't care if they are "choosing" to do it, either, regardless of whether or not I believe in free will.
What about people with brain injuries who had car accidents after driving drunk? They weren't born like that. The condition is (arguably) their own fault, if you happen to believe in free will and fault.
What about alcoholic dementia? Same thing. Right?
Jnowhere said:
Ugh. I never said any such thing.
Improve your comprehension... and maybe tone down your angry self-righteous ramblings?
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Mjäll
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Jun 25, 2008
- Messages
- 4,068
It's a provocative topic for sure. I think @Jnowhere harbors an understandable resentment toward narcissists, and perceived a certain nonchalance in your descriptions, @Frog Dreams.
Narcissism, psychopathy and gaslighting are very popular terms right now. They serve as tools for credibly ascribing evil to people, for whatever reasons. I think this is a consequence of democratization of an authoritative vocabulary. The awareness is good, but the instrument is too blunt. We should all be aware of evil tendencies within ourselves and others. There should be a social feedback system rather than a social secret judgment system. I don't know how it will pan out. Today i believe there are many people haplessly unaware of the potential for evil within themselvses, which also constitutes a kind of narcissism.
Something i've noticed is that autism has also become a popular slur, but in a more derogatory sense. While narcissism is the new "asshole", autism seems to be the new "dumb little kid". It's really perverse that we're throwing around such terms so carelessly. Autism is not only a word that refers to actual and debilitating illness - it's also a poorly defined syndrome. These are two good reasons to never ever diagnose someone you don't know.
Narcissism, psychopathy and gaslighting are very popular terms right now. They serve as tools for credibly ascribing evil to people, for whatever reasons. I think this is a consequence of democratization of an authoritative vocabulary. The awareness is good, but the instrument is too blunt. We should all be aware of evil tendencies within ourselves and others. There should be a social feedback system rather than a social secret judgment system. I don't know how it will pan out. Today i believe there are many people haplessly unaware of the potential for evil within themselvses, which also constitutes a kind of narcissism.
Something i've noticed is that autism has also become a popular slur, but in a more derogatory sense. While narcissism is the new "asshole", autism seems to be the new "dumb little kid". It's really perverse that we're throwing around such terms so carelessly. Autism is not only a word that refers to actual and debilitating illness - it's also a poorly defined syndrome. These are two good reasons to never ever diagnose someone you don't know.
Jabberwocky
Frumious Bandersnatch
I've seen such terms become almost glorified. And some harnessing such terms to give themselves excuses to be aggressively blunt.
Regardless of what direction we think society is moving toward, at the moment there is little support for those with the clinical condition.
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I would argue that you may have less of a conscience if you can't feel sorry for both
Personality disorders are defined in the DSM. They are mental illnesses. All behavior comes from the brain and the brain is a biological organ made of cells. Those cells, neurons and glia, are heavily influenced by genetics (nature) and epigenetics (nature and nurture)
Mental disorder - Wikipedia
Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders - Wikipedia
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Jabberwocky
Frumious Bandersnatch
Narcissism is being blurred between clinical and subclinical. And since some societies seemingly promote it, it's very convoluted and those with the chronic condition are overlooked.
Then you've got psychopaths, the vast majority who are in jail, leaving a percentage of a percentage on the street. Luckily, I don't think they can be fucked with the stigma, but I'm sure the realization that they can't experience what everyone can experience in depth, is frustrating to put it lightly.
Then you've got psychopaths, the vast majority who are in jail, leaving a percentage of a percentage on the street. Luckily, I don't think they can be fucked with the stigma, but I'm sure the realization that they can't experience what everyone can experience in depth, is frustrating to put it lightly.
Most people i have met can be self centered, fake and out for themselves. Most people are fake these days. Specifically with social media
Juniper Bruhmomentius
Bluelight Crew
I would say social media way more than promotes npd type behavior. Fake and shallow
Juniper Bruhmomentius
Bluelight Crew
The real problem is young people using these shit sites and getting horrible influences from them, surprisingly. Seems to get worse by the year.
When Xelon Musk help his pal Putin out his 14yo fan(atics) just say "oh thats our sigma male... keep up the Musk(rat) grind!