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Anti-Narcissism

Frogdreams : said he felt sorry for Hitler
He also said he feels sorry for rapists
I feel sorry for the victims of that scumbag and the victims of rape
 
Frog Dreams said:
@Foreigner

Sounds like you're diagnosing people? Have you had experience interacting with anyone with a formal diagnosis?
Click to expand...

Yes. No.

Frog Dreams said:
I'm not going to respond to all of your comments, because you're being toxic towards me again (and @someguyontheinternet largely saved me the trouble)... but this one - quoted above - stood out.

You seemingly misunderstood a lot of stuff in this thread.

I think @Jennn was saying that Afghani people became an outlet for her anger. You have still yet to answer the question of whether or not you've known someone with a formal NPD diagnosis, so - clearly - the answer is no... which means you're hating on a group of people that you don't even know. This is eerily reminiscent of racism.

I never said severely autistic people are the same as people with NPD, but I'd much rather hang out with the latter group. Have you ever spent time with severely autistic people?

When I'm spending time with someone, I don't care if they're being an asshole because of nurture or nature. I don't care if it's a disease or not. I don't care if they are "choosing" to do it, either, regardless of whether or not I believe in free will.

What about people with brain injuries who had car accidents after driving drunk? They weren't born like that. The condition is (arguably) their own fault, if you happen to believe in free will and fault.

What about alcoholic dementia? Same thing. Right?



Ugh. I never said any such thing.

Improve your comprehension... and maybe tone down your angry self-righteous ramblings?
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All this nice and feeling sorry for dirtbags is bullshit. Hey I have been arrested more times than I can remember. luckily nothing serious other than DUI and other drunken offenses and a lot in a college town and many jurisdictions. I broke various laws and got in trouble. Do you think my genetic predisposition to alcoholism made one bit of difference.
How often do autistic people reek havoc in your life( excluding close family members of the autistic).
All this trying to blame everyone else or come up with some disorder to try to say people are not responsible for their actions is bullshit.
Don't start with the mentally retarded. They ain't exactly a menace to society.
Yes there are some funny stories about people with Down's Syndrome trying to rob banks( It is pretty much never their idea. Also they are easily outsmarted by the tellers in many cases)
my overall point is this, there are people with real mental illness and it is wrong to put self centered assholes in the same category.
One of the reasons I am very angry about this is because I see this notion that people are not to blame for their bad to horrific actions on bad past experiences, as absolute garbage.
All these damn substance abuse counselors and the various shrinks out their sit around telling people it is not your fault; You are just masking the pain. They get more business by blaming others and telling people it's not your fault, you had a bad childhood or some bullshit like that.
Life for most people is hard and letting people slide for BS reasons is only making it worse.
Part of sobriety is dealing with things and not making excuses for your bad behavior. That is one of the reasons I dislike narcissistic people, they care about only what they can get from people.
Whether it is money, success, sex... ect.
Their devious tiny little minds are always thinking of themselves and home they can get more and more; Regardless of who they hurt, whose lives they ruin or care about the damage they do. Unless they get into trouble; then it is always blame everyone else or come up with some lame excuse. A narcissist is nothing more than a sociopath waiting for a promotion.
 
Frog dreams you have obviously erased the part of the post where you said you felt sorry for Hitler and rapists.
But we and a few others saw it.
 
Jennn said:
Most people i have met can be self centered, fake and out for themselves. Most people are fake these days. Specifically with social media
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So you have met a majority of the 8 billion people on this planet?
 
Jnowhere said:
Frog dreams you have obviously erased the part of the post where you said you felt sorry for Hitler and rapists.
But we and a few others saw it.
Click to expand...

Nope.

Anti-Narcissism

No, I was talking about actual diagnosed narcissists. I don't think anyone is a "piece of shit" or "human trash". I feel sorry for Hitler. I feel sorry for rapists. I believe in redemption. ... Do ANY of you guys actually know a diagnosed narcissist? Or a diagnosed sociopath? Or a diagnosed...
bluelight.org bluelight.org

I said:
I feel sorry for Hitler. I feel sorry for rapists.
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One of the reasons I am very angry
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There is no reason to be "very angry" about somebody's opinion on the internet. I'm not legislating. I'm just a guy. Who fucking cares?

Like you said, there are eight billion people on the planet. If you get upset about everybody's opinion, you'll go crazy.

Chill.

Jnowhere said:
How often do autistic people reek wreak havoc in your life( excluding close family members of the autistic).
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Severely autistic people are (more often than not) so difficult to be around that they cannot form relationships with anyone and live their entire lives in relative isolation. I'm talking about people that constantly scream (incomprehensibly) and hit people. It is extremely difficult to be in their presence, even for short periods of time. You will most likely never encounter them unless you are a family member or work in disability.

I feel sorry for them, of course, but they are definitely harder to be around than narcissists.
 
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Why must people be so reactionary. It's possible to hold many views at once. I can feel empathy and compassion for narcissists while also wishing to avoid them. The narcs I had traumatic contact with were still human beings, they were tortured souls who could not see themselves. Yes they hurt others, but they were suffering from a mental disorder. So yes, I feel sorry for them, but hours and hours AND HOURS of talking to them was just energy into a black hole. They need long-term, professional help.

Similarly, you can feel compassion and empathy for so-called evil while not condoning it. Fine, let's talk about Hitler. Have you read Mein Kampf? Or watched full speeches, interviews or read transcripts of him talking? The guy was brilliant, but he was highly tortured. And toward the end he was tweaked out AF on amphetamines trying to stay awake to keep the war going. He was many things but he was not weak or incompetent. And I think he was fucked in the head in a way that was ultimately his own self-undoing.

I mean... I'm a non-dual theist if you want to use a label. This is all just god... god as people typing on BL, god as Hitler, god as mickey mouse. It's all just appearances. I can think anything about anything or anyone and at the end of the day the thoughts are whatever. Hitler did what he did. Analyzing his character or trying to give credit where credit is due (like how he rescued post-WWI Germany from economic slavery because he knew economics like the back of his hand) is not going to change what he did or suddenly unleash new evils on the world. Looking at the good vs. evil paradigm, there is always evil in the world. There is evil happening right now, this very second. There's more slavery today than at any time in history. Gaza is being wiped out. People still die in the dirt every day while the wealthy stuff their fat fucking faces right beside them. I mean... what are we actually talking about here?
 
Great post, @Foreigner.

I don't believe in evil, but it depends what you mean by evil. Words are imperfect. I'll use the word evil, rather than splitting hairs.

I feel sorry for evil-doers because (in many ways) I think it is harder to be an evil-doer. Sinning (I don't like that word either, but it'll do) is painful.

Hitler was definitely tortured. I have been lost in the past, but I can't imagine how lost you have to be to rape a child or murder someone in cold blood.

Historically there have always been socially acceptable groups to hate. Gypsies. Jews. Gays. Japanese. Chinese. Germans. Christians. Muslims. Etc.

In the modern world, as we become more and more "progressive" as a global society we are systematically deconstructing this scapegoat mentality.

Trans people are accepted. It's wrong to "fat-shame". Racism is the devil. Etc.

There are few labels left that we don't feel compassionate towards.

The most difficult labels (racists, rapists, narcissists, etc) are the only ones that remain.

I'm also a non-dual theist. We are all one. To hate on others is to hate on ourselves.

I know you well enough - I think - to know that you aren't hating on anyone, but I'm not sure (when you say stuff like "the wealthy stuff their fat fucking faces" and numerous comments you made about personal interactions with people you believe are narcissists) if you're truly at peace with the universe?

If this is all God, it is all perfect... In order to truly practice acceptance, we shouldn't be frustrated by anything. Right?

It is what it is.

I've personally never had any problems (at all) with narcissists. If I don't like the way someone treats me, I'll just move on.

Assuming I am never abducted by a narcissist and held against my will: they have no power over me; their problems are their problems.

...

Side note (off topic): is there really more slavery - as a percent of the global population - than ever before?

I find that a little difficult to believe.
 
Wait.
I meant to post that narcissism is a thing and getting bigger IMO if we could only be ourselves....
Outta my control.
 
Foreigner said:
Why must people be so reactionary. It's possible to hold many views at once. I can feel empathy and compassion for narcissists while also wishing to avoid them. The narcs I had traumatic contact with were still human beings, they were tortured souls who could not see themselves. Yes they hurt others, but they were suffering from a mental disorder. So yes, I feel sorry for them, but hours and hours AND HOURS of talking to them was just energy into a black hole. They need long-term, professional help.

Similarly, you can feel compassion and empathy for so-called evil while not condoning it. Fine, let's talk about Hitler. Have you read Mein Kampf? Or watched full speeches, interviews or read transcripts of him talking? The guy was brilliant, but he was highly tortured. And toward the end he was tweaked out AF on amphetamines trying to stay awake to keep the war going. He was many things but he was not weak or incompetent. And I think he was fucked in the head in a way that was ultimately his own self-undoing.

I mean... I'm a non-dual theist if you want to use a label. This is all just god... god as people typing on BL, god as Hitler, god as mickey mouse. It's all just appearances. I can think anything about anything or anyone and at the end of the day the thoughts are whatever. Hitler did what he did. Analyzing his character or trying to give credit where credit is due (like how he rescued post-WWI Germany from economic slavery because he knew economics like the back of his hand) is not going to change what he did or suddenly unleash new evils on the world. Looking at the good vs. evil paradigm, there is always evil in the world. There is evil happening right now, this very second. There's more slavery today than at any time in history. Gaza is being wiped out. People still die in the dirt every day while the wealthy stuff their fat fucking faces right beside them. I mean... what are we actually talking about here?
Click to expand...

I think that people can commit evil without actually BEING evil. It’s something some may consider a slight distinction, but imo it’s an important distinction.

I think that there are people who are just “rotten to the core”, like something just went wrong with them somewhere along the line in their development and they are just malevolent people, but those people are a tiny tiny minority of the population, and nowhere near as common as some modern day political narratives would suggest. Most people are complex, with good and bad qualities which can be either elevated or suppressed based on circumstance.
 
Burnt Offerings said:
something just went wrong with them somewhere along the line in their development and they are just malevolent people
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IMO this is an important sub group, that better understanding and support for these conditions are arguably most important.

A mostly secure and understanding person can tolerate someone with NPD. Possibly even challenge their views, as we all do, not to fight, but to understand one another and ones self.

However, someone who is actively causing mass chaos on a warpath with no brakes (for dramatic but sometimes applicable example), clearly, as you said, something went wrong.

And I wonder how and when understanding of their experience and support of a more prosocial life could have prevented all that.

I've stayed mostly high level about this topic throughout the thread, however I think it's now relevant that personally being diagnosed bipolar and treated for antisocial tendencies in my 20s has helped reduce angst and frustrations with myself and society. What started court ordered became voluntary as I understood how much more fulfilling a prosocial life can be.

Just a tid bit there. Some things are always a thing, but it may help one at the very least think twice before acting.
 
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