Anti-anxiety drugs

[VolkeBobruysk]

What works best for me (after 25 years of being docs' guinea pigs with just about every AD for anxiety--AD's do nothing for my anxiety except make it worse) is clonazepam for my severe GAD and PD. I also get prescribed a secondary BZD adjunct, usually alp or lorazepam. Diazepam is effective too but doses I require are too high and at those dosages are not good for my respiratory health (lowers respiration too much, causing mild acidosis). I'm on LONG term BZD therapy, probably lifelong. Non-daily (3-4 times a week dose) nitrazepam was very effective too but long term use makes you a mush head.

When I could use cannabis regularly (before my new job with random GC/MS and HPLC UT's) it worked well (high indica). Now I also use an herbal tea of Lactuca virosa, Passiflora incarnata and Scutellaria and hops. It's a good adjunct and lets me use the smallest dosages to be treated. It's also good for WD's and weening off of addictions of most drug classes, including BZD's, opiates, stimulants (not real great for that) and alcohol. If you drink on strong brews of it though you definitely get a good euphoria.

Kratom in low doses is helpful but not good for long term use. Kratom is controversial in usage and depends on your past drug usages and your specific diagnosis.

 

[burn out]

Question about benzos:

I have heard some people say they are the worst thing you can do, some others say its the best...

What's the deal?

it probably depends on the person.

I kind of get the impression that they are amazing at first, but then can actually makes things worse if you begin to rely on them - is this accurate?

yes and no. you definitely build a tolerance and they become less effective over time. however, in my experience and according to some studies, the anti anxiety affects do not go away completely. i have abused the fuck out of benzos before, taking like 5 times the therapeutic dose, yet the therapeutic dose still relieves anxiety for me. in terms of relying on them, that can definitely happen. for example it's possible to get to a state of mind where you think "omg something out of the ordinary happened, i need a xanax" but then if you tell yourself that's just silly and that you dealt with such situations just fine before you started benzos, you can get through it without them.

Does it actually change the way your brain works, so that you actually need the benzos to be normal? Or is that they make you feel so good when on them, but the effect is only there while on them, and so you whenever you stop using, you normally go back to your old self?

both. all addictive drugs, if taken heavily enough for long enough, change your neurochemistry so you need them to feel normal. also, when you stop taking benzos, the anxiety you had before you started them will come back.

Is it not possible to use them, so that you can make positive changes in your life ie. build/rebuild relationships, practice social skills etc, so that you improve your ability to act without them?

it's certainly possible. for example, you could use benzos to help you get to know new people and be more open with them. then you could maintain relationships with those people even once you weren't on benzos. the key is you actually have to make an effort to do that. you can't just take a benzo, stay at home and watch tv and expect friends to appear out of nowhere (which is what i tend to do).

I have also heard that there can be effects on your cognitive abilities, specifically memory.Are there any benzos which do not harm memory? Can nootropics help?

i haven't noticed any negative effects from benzos on my memory, except when i'm actually on benzos of course but even then, now that i have a tolerance, i can usually remember things pretty well unless i take a ridiculous dose.

While on benzos, are other emotions dulled? Does motivation, happiness, interest etc die down?

in my experience, no. these feelings can occur on high recreational doses or subsequent hangovers but not at therapeutic doses in my experience.

 

[VolkeBobruysk]

While I dont have social anxiety disorder, I have a good friend who does have it comorbidly with atypical depression that has gotten quite severe--to the point that he was on dexedrine and benzos mostly but also on other regimens (some experimental using psychotropics) and therapy. I fully appreciate the condition and to a point can relate to the impasses that come along with the anxiety disorders. My severe GAD and PD have given me the same problems that both Scorched Soul and burn out endure at work. First of all, my GAD is really a constant panic attack....generally a 5-7 or higher on the scale without treatment. That has been severely detrimental to my work and study performance when I am not treated. At his anxiety level, I cannot concentrate, I "blank out" remembering things, not to mention that I act "schizy" especially when I get a full blown panic attack.

I am at a senior level position at work with a major defense contractor and must deal with employees, other engineers and upper management, suppliers, customers, etc. etc. etc. For me, without treatment the anxiety has held me back at different times in my life. Without treatment (i.e., medication in my case) I am handicapped. It also affects my social life to a degree because panic attacks, even with medication, still occur regularly. The PD has over the decades escalated to agoraphobia which in many ways is similar to Social Anxiety. I just wanted to mention these things to remind you that you folk are not alone in your tribulation. I have lost jobs, social circles, even girlfriends when not treated.

Like I mentioned in my last post, I am under the care of practioners: GPs, shrinks and counselors. I have to emphasize that therapy, especially CBT and CGBT have a very high success rate with anxiety patients. My case is rare in that psychotherapy and counseling have had very little help. I strongly recommend the book on anxiety disorders by Dr. Bourne. It is excellent and probably the best publication on these conditions....get it! It is an exceptional tool. My only "effective psychotherapy" is support of family and friends, and co-workers. Talking and sharing (sounds so 12 step) 8) can bring to light issues that you wouldn't normally recognize on your own. I've even found online forums/support groups that IMO help a lot too.

I can go on for quite some time on all of this as I've had over 25 years of dealing with anxiety disorders and have learned quite a lot. I'll close this post with a good link that offers some good information on the condition, medications and other treatments:

http://www.socialfear.com/

Hope I haven't droned on too much. I can talk about these conditions and meds all day....

another problem is i'm running into problems now because my anxiety is interfering with my occupational functioning. the way you advance in the work world is through networking and making contacts and being liked. the ability to skillfully interact with other people is so important, it's usually written right on the job description of every single job. if you lack this ability, your ability to earn a living is severely handicapped. QUOTE]

Yes.

That is exactly what I'm talking about. In the company I work for, this skill is THE most important atribute you can have. It is essential. I don't have it. It hasn't held me back yet, due to my junior position, but I am just now getting to point where I need to start dealing with people, professionals, in meetings, netwworking, working with colleagues etc.

I haven't yet been held back, but I have let sooooo many opportunities go by, due to my lack of ability to function in a social setting.

 

[Scorched Soul]

re:

Hey everyone,

Just got home from work, will post a more extensive report of them day later on, but quick question.

Came home to find my theanine and valerian had arrived. Wanna take some!

What kind of doses are effective for the two substances? Can they be combined?

 

[Scorched Soul]

re:

I took about 4g of valerian and 500mg of theanine about 45 mins ago, no effect so far.

Anyway, took 8mg of diazepam this morning. To be honest, I'm not sure if I felt that much. I didn't feel much anxiety today, but I wasn't really put in any situation where I might feel anxious. My contact with people was somewhat limited today, so it was kind of hard to tell if there was an effect.

I certainly didn't feel 'different', I pretty much felt the same, maybe a slight uplift, but that could have been a placebo effect. If there was an effect, it was subtle.

I'm thinking of upping the dose to 12mg tomorrow, to see what happens.

How does diazepam combine with theanine and valerian?



Seperate question -

I was wondering what kind of effect heavy use of mdma would do to the brain. i went through a substantial amount over a few months, and I never took any supplements or anything afterwards. Is the brain left defficient after heavy mdma use, and is the anything i can take to help?

 

[Kakkoii]

i find that nothing works except for benzos to relieve hardcore anxiety.

mdma or any stimulant is a horrible idea for the long term.

marijuana helps me to stay calm for the most part.

Yeah, Marijuana can be good.

But it can also be horrible depending on the way your anxiety works.

The way my anxiety works. If I take marijuana I have a huge episode where I literally think I'm dying and I eventually blackout, waking up a few seconds/minutes later.

Crazy how things can work sometimes eh lol.

 

[GenericMind]

More often than not Cannabis exacerbates anxiety problems.

 

[johanneschimpo]

Anyway, took 8mg of diazepam this morning. To be honest, I'm not sure if I felt that much. I didn't feel much anxiety today, but I wasn't really put in any situation where I might feel anxious. My contact with people was somewhat limited today, so it was kind of hard to tell if there was an effect.

I certainly didn't feel 'different', I pretty much felt the same, maybe a slight uplift, but that could have been a placebo effect. If there was an effect, it was subtle.

I'm thinking of upping the dose to 12mg tomorrow, to see what happens.

To tell you the truth, I can't believe that they even make 2mg diazepam pills. I get prescribed 10mg diazepam, and thats not even too much. Imagining taking 5 times less is ridiculous.
IMO, 10mg is the minimum amount that I would find effective for anxiety. I don't know what kind of anxiety you have, but try 10mg tomorrow. It should smooth your day out, if you have generalized anxiety. If you have other types, meds other than diazepam might be better suited. (Sorry for not reading above if these things were already mentioned)

 

[VolkeBobruysk]

I took about 4g of valerian and 500mg of theanine about 45 mins ago, no effect so far.

Anyway, took 8mg of diazepam this morning. To be honest, I'm not sure if I felt that much. I didn't feel much anxiety today, but I wasn't really put in any situation where I might feel anxious. My contact with people was somewhat limited today, so it was kind of hard to tell if there was an effect.

I certainly didn't feel 'different', I pretty much felt the same, maybe a slight uplift, but that could have been a placebo effect. If there was an effect, it was subtle.

I'm thinking of upping the dose to 12mg tomorrow, to see what happens.

How does diazepam combine with theanine and valerian? [QUOTE}

Theanine is an amino acid precursor to to the neuroransmitter GABA, the compound responsible for most BZD effects. GABA, contrary to popular belief, does not cross the blood brain barrier to give benzo effects and is not directly psychoactive. It does load your system with GABA so that GABA agonists have a larger possibility of the BZD efffects. Valproic acid and the many other varied constituents of valerian enable the GABA to cross over to the brain for the effects. It iw not certain if its just the valproic acid or the mixture in valerian do this most likely a combination some/all chems in valerian, but unlike benzos, valerian IMPROVES sleep quality L-theanine is actually a mild sedative too, which is why with green tea you wont get tweaked from the caffeine in the tea.

Valerian shows little if any toxic effect, even at very high doses, unlike kava. As far as the valeriian/diaz combo, you won't see much of an effect/atteuatiion until say, several weeks of regular valerian intake. Valerian is full of other phytochemicals, aside from valprproic acid (aka Depakote). Try scullcap with the valerian...wild lettuce (Lactuca virosa). After regular use of valerian you should see a noticeable posittive effect. Passionflower Passiflora incarnata is also a good add, but remember than the Passiflora acts as an MAOI so be careful of combinations with it.

Valerian, btw. is by prescription-only in Germany from studies done by the Commission E. It's prescribed there for mild anxiety, usually comorbid with depression.

Heavy MDMA use (even single strong doses) does cause neurotransmitter imbalances which frequently lead to permanent brain damage and also increased growth of a brain cell called the glials. it also causes severe dopamine (primarily) shortages which are responsible for several neuro abnormalities. including Parkinson's. Fortunately, if you aren't a hardcore mdma user, the brain will remap itself to an extent, usually for the better. In that say, it is very similar to regular cannabis . The brain will rebuild neural pathways but generally for the worse. "Brain sponge" is common due to dopamine depletion but the glial cells can be 'trained' to restore at least part of cognitive functioning. Dopamine and/or levadopa meds and their progenies can help with the Drain Bamage. Restoring cognitive functioning is a toughie though.

There are experimental drugs (levadopa is so-so) but mental retraining is the best remedy. One your brain in mushed with holes in it from over mdma use, there are currently very few possible remedies.

Hope this helps some......




Seperate question -

I was wondering what kind of effect heavy use of mdma would do to the brain. i went through a substantial amount over a few months, and I never took any supplements or anything afterwards. Is the brain left defficient after heavy mdma use, and is the anything i can take to help?

%)

 

[VolkeBobruysk]

More often than not Cannabis exacerbates anxiety problems.

True, I agree with that but only if you're a stoner instead of a chipper.

 

[radium1]

Try Yohimbe

I bought a regular bottle of 100 capsules of 450mg Yohimbe at GNC for an unrelated reason. I took 2 and drank a beer. About 2 hours later, I thought I was going to pass out, my heart was racing, sweating etc. 2 Days later I took 1, and noticed that later in the day, I was very sociable and outgoing. I am usually very shy. I now take 1 a day in the morning and the effect has been very good for my social anxiety. I did some search on the web and found a little bit about where Yohimbe was given to rats and while it increased their anxiety initially it also helped them overcome their fear quickly as to other rats who were say given inderal. So I would say try Yohimbe at a low dose, its cheap and so far it has worked great for me.

 

[sonic]

More often than not Cannabis exacerbates anxiety problems.

Yeah, it's usually hit or miss with cannabis for me. It all depends on the strain and my mindset. Strong hydroponic sativa strain cannabis can give me anxiety, but I find that other strains of homegrown bud can sometimes be more sedating and relaxing.

 

[enoughorangejuice?]

Originally Posted by Scorched Soul
I just found some diazepam in my cupboard (prescribed to my mum a while back for back pain). It is in 2mg pills.

I wanna take some, in order to see what effect it has. Is it something u need to take over time for it to build up? If i took 2mg, would effects would i feel? I am about 85kg and 22. Whats a normal good effective first dose?

I was planning on taking it before work, so I could see how it changes how i feel when around people. What do u guys think?

you need to take at least 3 to feel anything. 5-10mg is a safe, and good starting dose. you could probably take up to 20mg, but try 6mg -12mg. 2mg will do NOTHING. i was Rx'd 2mg valiums when i was 16 and they did nothing. now i'm Rx'd 5mg four times a day. but you do not need to take it over time for it to work, it works like an aspirin, right away.

and about cannabis, as sonic said, certain sativa dominant strains can increase my heart rate / anxiety, but for the most part cannabis helps my anxiety and calms me, especially since i take valium every 4-5 hours every day, and the mix is just wonderful for anxiety relief

 

[sonic]

Benzos by themselves are very safe. Even with no tolerance you can take a very large dose of valium and it's not going to kill you UNLESS you mix it with alcohol or another depressant. IMO a good starting dose of valium is 15-20mg if you're looking for strong anxiety relief/relaxation.

 

[nycrosshairs]

but for the most part cannabis helps my anxiety and calms me, especially since i take valium every 4-5 hours every day, and the mix is just wonderful for anxiety relief

I bet smoking weed won't last too many years with you. Requiring a benzo and actually taking a benzo are two outstanding reasons why you shouldn't smoke weed. You may feel ok with it now but its a downward spiral. In time it will make things worse and you will stop smoking.

 

[enoughorangejuice?]

^^ i've been smoking pot daily for 9 years and taking benzos daily for 4 years... all of my doctors have been aware of my cannabis usage and i've been Rx'd Marinol 10mg 2-3x a day for 1.5 years. Cannabis affects everybody differently, especially different strains. Organic indica dom. strains help me. Maybe they make your anxiety worse but it helps me, and is safer than drinking during social situations. To each their own. I know what works for me and what doesn't. I also take Focalin (dex-methylphenidate) and most stims. make people's anxiety worse, but it actually calms me....

but you're right i will stop smoking..... the day i die.

 

[nycrosshairs]

Organic indica dom. strains help me. Maybe they make your anxiety worse but it helps me, and is safer than drinking during social situations. To each their own. I know what works for me and what doesn't.

Correction. You know what isn't showing problems at this point in time.

You nor i have any idea how we will react to things down the road.

For one you're taking a benzo daily which you should never do (no matter your reason for doing so, its wrong). Unfortunately a lot of people get pigeon holed into doing so. Say what you like but when the time comes to get off that benzo (and yes my friend, that time will come) you can only hope to delay the nightmare of years of use by bouncing around on other benzos.

On top of this you expect to smoke weed for the rest of your life? LMAO My friend your in for a rough time.

I require a benzo aswell but wasn't foolish enough to take it daily cause its not a cure. If i was weaker i might tell myself that.

You and marijuana use? 'Drop it like its hot' will soon be your motto.

 

[phatass]

For one you're taking a benzo daily which you should never do (no matter your reason for doing so, its wrong). Unfortunately a lot of people get pigeon holed into doing so. Say what you like but when the time comes to get off that benzo (and yes my friend, that time will come) you can only hope to delay the nightmare of years of use by bouncing around on other benzos.

.

Buuuuuulllshit... lot's of people take benzos daily for a variety of different reasons, and they are extremely efficient therapeutic drugs for what they're worth, the fact that you will most certainly want to come off them at some point in your life may be true, this is why it is recommended to taper over a period of 6 months or more, if tapering is done correctly, according to the amount of benzos taken, and over how long you've taken them, the taper should be without w/d.... that is the whole point of tapering...

Benzo's are efficient, THEY WORK, unlike SSRI's and shady meds which take 2 months to probably not work....

 

[nycrosshairs]

Let me guess. You are currently taking a benzo daily?

 

[phatass]

yes