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Alcoholism discussion thread v. 5.0

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^ Sounds like my weekend. Alcohol, cocaine, heroin, chain-smoking, strippers, nightclub girls, public sex with my ex, vomiting, money gone, etc...

To be honest, I don't regret it really at all. Well I could have gotten off spending about half the money, and I could have used a condom. But anyway, I needed to get something like that out of my system. I knew that not only was that first beer going to get me drunk, but it would lead to cocaine, heroin, etc... I don't know, I just kinda wanted to do it all. I could liken it to growing my hair. I like to cut my hair and then spend a long time growing it long, over and over. It's about the process of moving through familiar and not-so-familiar stages, trying to learn from your experiences, and not just about having the longest sober streak on the block (at least that's what I tell myself so I can sleep at night ;)).

In all honesty, here's how I "relapsed" in my head before I went out and started drinking. One of the reasons I used to drink and use drugs a lot was to be better able to interact with women. When I'm clean/sober, I'm just a very nice, reserved person. Way too "nice" to really end up as anything but a friend to most women. Back in my hayday, I got a lot of female attention because the abuse turned me into a confrontational, outgoing and aggressive person - traits that seem to attract women. Granted, I never liked getting women this way, and in my ideal world I would be able to attract them by my good characteristics, but this is just how it seemed to always work.

So after getting clean/sober, I had made three honest attempts to get to know girls I found myself attracted to. Do it the honest way, build up a friendship base and move slowly into a state where I could make an honest move and see where it led me. Third girl was this girl I was getting to know, had spent nights up talking with her about everything, we really seemed to hit it off. I asked her out on a nice date, she said "yes." I was so excited, up until she canceled it on me, said that she only saw me as a "friend," and went back to her no-good ex. I was sad, depressed, angry and that whole lot of emotions.

Now when I quit heroin, I got my hormones back like I was 14 again. I have always had a high sex drive already, so this hit me like a train, and despite trying to take things slow in recovery and not let women jeoprodise my recovery goals, the hormones were becoming a gigantic distraction. I had been craving female company a lot lately, ideally with one of the girls I had been getting to know. But after the third strike, something in me just kinda snapped and I think I used my desire to be able to get close to a woman again as an excuse for me to hit the bottle. And it worked, err as well as I was able to perform under the influence of opiates (why :!). But still it felt pretty hollow, and now I'm kicking myself for relapsing on heroin one hour before I relapsed on sex.

So I'm just trying to pick up where I left off. The hangover SUCKED. Alcohol really is a hard drug. But after a day or two of feeling apathy and a bit scattered, I'm back where I was - eating well, working out, being productive, and so on. Ya, the counter is reset, but I'm not really that worried.
 
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Sounds like a close shave VanWeyden. Good you were able to pull yourself back though like that. Relapsing's so easy, so hard to pull out when your in the midst of one so the fact you were able to do that has maybe turned a negative thing like a relapse into something positive. Something's working for you anyways. Have a good weekend fella.

I've not updated for a while. Having the attention span of a goldfish this last month hasn't helped with the whole getting a post together thing, and when I have managed to type something up it's been a big, long, self-indulgent whine about how crap I've been feeling that even I found bloody tedious reading back. Back buttoned the lot of 'em. Don't need to be inflicting my self-pitying negativity on all you good readers of this thread now, do I? ;)

I've officially done a full month sober, this being day 31 by my reckoning. Can't take too much pride in that cos if I'd not fallen off my wagon last time out I'd have been looking at chalking up 6 months soon, instead I'm back to grinding out the days trying to to make up lost ground. It's been rough. Seem to have been suffering from all the classic symptoms of PAWS: depressed, anxious, angry and frustrated with myself for having put myself through this shit again, not sleeping or eating too well, general brain fog making even simple tasks hard work and mentally exhausting. Quite how much I could be said to be suffering from post-acute withdrawal given there was no acute withdrawal phase in the first place I do not know, but there you are. These last two days things seem to have taken a big turn for the better. Woke up yesterday clear-headed, in a brighter, happier mood, and seem to actually have some energy at last. Even thinking the Bank Holiday weekend might be a good time to get out to some rock for a bit of a climb if the weather's good, and not thought that for a while. We'll see. The cravings haven't been too bad. They're reasonably easy to dismiss on Antabuse, no point dwelling on them with none of that battling with the temptation that so ramps up the anxiety but they're still there, like a constant, low-level background noise nagging away. I can live with it.

One thing that's frustrating me is how most of the options I've got for CBT / counselling or group support / social stuff for those in recovery available through the addiction unit, etc seem to assume that most alcoholics will have lost their jobs and have all their days free. I need to put a few of those things in place and have made efforts to do so before but all I can find that I can actually get to out of working hours is the one SMART Recovery meeting a week. That and AA, which I've tried and know ain't for me. It's not enough but I can't afford to take afternoons off work every bloody week, I'm skint as it is. Dunno what to try next. :?
 
Hey Sepher, congratulations on one full month! And the time you had before falling off the wagon still counts for a lot. It indicates your strength and shows that you can do this. I have experience with PAWS (and will probably see a lot more experience with it from here on out), and it's definitely rough. Here's a link I found helpful when I first realized I was going through PAWS: http://digital-dharma.net/post-acute-withdrawal-syndrome-why-we-dont-get-better-immediately

It's good that the Antabuse is doing its job, but another important factor in keeping yourself sober is maintaining a good diet and good sleeping habits. I know I would have relapsed a lot sooner than I did had I not channeled my energy off good health. All that effort I put into getting sufficient alcohol every day, I put towards getting myself in good shape and eating healthy for perhaps the first time in my whole life. The bad days will still surface, but believe me, a healthy meal and a good night's sleep takes the edge off. And I understand it's easier said than done. I'm just getting back on track myself. For sleep, I recommend giving melatonin a shot. I'm sure it's been mentioned a few times on this board. A lot of people, including me, find it to be a very effective herbal sleep aid. With that said, though, I'm glad things are appearing to get better.

As for me, I'm just beginning day 4 of sobriety. I had a hospital visit recently for a number of things, including withdrawal, which was fortunately short and not too rocky. My liver is doing okay and has shown a lot of improvement since February, and the doctors do not suspect that I have cirrhosis. I've been referred to a treatment program that I'll be seeing about soon. The hospital staff was very encouraging, and it was an important experience for me. I'm happy I went there, because had I not, I'd probably be sitting here with a been in front of me as I type. I needed to be shown that I can do this, that there was a chance. I am still white knuckling it, hour by hour, and the issues I tried to drink away are still there, clear as ever, in fact worse than ever. I know I can't do this alone. I had a better shot at it last time, and I still eventually relapsed. So I'm taking the steps to get the help I need. That's all I can do.
 
RL, you've confused the fuck outta me with that. Dunno what to say? If you'd posted that first line anywhere else on BL we'd all be like, 'Way to go dude. Sounds like a blast!' I'm trying my damnedest to come up with a more appropriate response in the context of this thread but you know what, I'm struggling man, I really am! Guess I'll just have to come back to it later when I've got my sensible, sober head on. :\

Blahman, cheers for that. Plans are in place for the healthy diet thing, all taken care of mate, trust me. I earned £600 quid last month what with time off work drunk as a skunk and a 3 day suspension, not enough to meet the rent and utility bills let alone eat. Had a freezer full of chicken breasts and minced beef luckily and I'm a half decent cook, so while I haven't quite starved let me tell you there's only so much chicken curry and spaghetti bolognaise you can eat in a month. Spaghetti in front of me right now for lunch at work, spaghetti for tea last night, and damn if it wasn't spaghetti for lunch and tea the day before that too. My body is screaming for fresh veggies and vitamins. Thank G*d it's pay day tomorrow. :)

Good news on the test results, and good on the four days thing too. . I kinda figured that would likely be the case and that what you needed were some test results to confirm that things aren't nearly so bad as you've feared, but I did worry a bit about my earlier post driving at that, cos what if I was wrong? Anyways, good stuff. Must be a great weight off your shoulders. Course, the downside is you can't use that as an excuse to keep on drinking any more. Damn! ;)
 
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RL - I know the feeling and exactly what you are describing. I haven't done anything like it in awhile, but one of the hardest parts about not using opiates and coke anymore is that I am just more socially awkward, especially around girls. Of course, towards the end the opiates and coke were not helping in that department either. Thankfully, it has gotten easier for me, but I do find that I will crave before big nights out or long weekends.

Glad to hear that you are not feeling like using more. Relapses can be huge learning experiences, and it sounds like you are putting yours into proper context.

Blah keep it up.

Sepher, I totally have been on the soup and spaghetti diet before. Its not fun, though I do tend to throw in some homemade bean burritos as well for variety. I am a bit of a "foodie" (not a snobby one, I just love good food) so this can be torture for me. Oh well, it could be way worse. :D Of course, I am also a huge craft beer fan.. really the only time I drink cheap beer is when I am trying to taper off and/or reduce tolerance. I don't even want to think about the amount of money I have spent on beer.

D's - Have you put any thought into my post about reducing your consumption and/or tapering? Do you think you would be able to stay away from the hard stuff at the very least?
 
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I've read only the first dozen to 20 (yeah, 12-20) posts in this thread... But I cannot imagine being alcohol free. I'm struggling with opiates atm, but that withdrawal seems tame. I'm terrified of waking up, broke, and dry, and seizing out at work. It's horrible. I hope you all find yourselves, get better, etc. I'm not sure what I am to do.
 
Cyb said:
I've read only the first dozen to 20 (yeah, 12-20) posts in this thread... But I cannot imagine being alcohol free. I'm struggling with opiates atm, but that withdrawal seems tame. I'm terrified of waking up, broke, and dry, and seizing out at work. It's horrible. I hope you all find yourselves, get better, etc. I'm not sure what I am to do.
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You generally have to drink pretty heavy and for quite some time to put yourself in real danger... having experienced both types of withdrawal I am not sure what I would think is "worse". They are both bad in their own way. It really comes down to mindset though, wanting to quit and having a real desire makes all the difference. Especially when compared to WD which comes from running out.
 
Sepher, congrats on one month dude, keep it up <3

blahman, how are you doing?

D's, it's pretty common to swap one addiction for another so don't be too hard on yourself brother. Do you think you need to stop drinking now?



I think I am going to drink tonight. I've been thinking it over all day, I feel like I'm making a very calculated and adult decision to do this. It will only be tonight, not tomorrow or the next day. It's been 5 and a half months. I feel like I need and deserve a motherfucking break for one night.
 
n3o, I am impressed by your honesty. it's your choice but I beg you to reconsider that. You struggled so fucking long to sober up, you made it five and a half months (FIVE AND A HALF MONTHS!!!!) and still counting. I can talk easily cause I relapsed 2 weeks ago, but it only was helpful in the sense that now I'm fully aware of me being an addict and that I have to care for myself in order to stay sober. It was an awful experience all over. Imagine just nodding and puking and feeling like shit a whole day because it was too much and then ingesting more. If I didn't reach for help after that weekend I would be back in the game now, seriously.

Just remember the times when you had some sober time in the past: When you thought "ok, I've made some time sober, now I can reward myself with a drink. One drink doesn't hurt, I can control this." How did it end?

Maybe it works out, a relapse can be something like a catharsis. I experienced that. One day in excess and then I'm done for a while. But maybe it doesn't work out and then you're fucked. How will you feel then, when you thought you could control it and in fact couldn't?
 
n3ophy7e said:
blahman, how are you doing?
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Hey n3o. I'm doing alright. Still sober, trying to stay healthy. Getting back into eating right and exercising. Making some progress in my job hunting. Not quite hired yet but I've applied for a few jobs that I'm qualified for. Hopefully something works out. Last time I sobered up, I made progress in my health but didn't quite get my life back on track. I just worked shitty odd jobs, was broke a lot, couldn't find anything stable and had way too much time on my hands. So this time around, I'm trying to do things differently. Even just applying for jobs, writing music, looking up schools, and exercising is keeping booze off my mind. I haven't been craving at all for the past few days. Today is day 10 for me.

n3ophy7e said:
I think I am going to drink tonight. I've been thinking it over all day, I feel like I'm making a very calculated and adult decision to do this. It will only be tonight, not tomorrow or the next day. It's been 5 and a half months. I feel like I need and deserve a motherfucking break for one night.
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Well, I certainly think you're capable of making up your own mind and you know what's best. Personally, when I came to that point when I relapsed back towards the end of May, I had a similar mindstate; that I'd only drink for that night and get right back to sobriety, that I just needed a break, etc. I ended up drinking heavily on and off for the following three months. You sound pretty certain that it won't turn out that way for you, though, and I hope it won't. Our addictive minds have clever ways of tricking us back into old habits. One of those tricks is the "reward" mentality (as VanWeyden alluded to), where we feel like we deserve a break after putting in so much hard work, just like you have for the past 5+ months. We've all been through it. I just hope that, if you do drink, it won't get out of control. I know it would for a lot of us.

I think 5 and a half months is something to be proud of, though. One of the things I was so hesitant on giving up was the three full months of sobriety I had. I felt proud of myself to be able to say that, and to keep going. When I relapsed, I never thought I would end up on another extended binge. Then the next day when I bought another bottle of vodka, I still thought that would be the last night, and it was just a hiccup in my recovery. But I kept making excuses. That's the case for a lot of us. The worst feeling for me, after that night where I drank for the first time in months, was waking up, hung over, to the fact that I drank and that was that. I wanted to take it back. After those few hours of being drunk and then falling asleep, I woke up and never thought it was worth it.

I'm sure you've considered all of this though. I hope you reconsider and maybe not take the chance that it might lead to continued drinking. If you do decide that you can drink for one night and put it back down, then I hope it works out okay. I wish you the best. <3
 
Just remember the times when you had some sober time in the past: When you thought "ok, I've made some time sober, now I can reward myself with a drink. One drink doesn't hurt, I can control this." How did it end?

Maybe it works out, a relapse can be something like a catharsis. I experienced that. One day in excess and then I'm done for a while. But maybe it doesn't work out and then you're fucked. How will you feel then, when you thought you could control it and in fact couldn't?
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Very much ^this!^

N3o, can very much relate to this need to get out of it just once in a while, partly because yeah, I feel like I deserve it after doing so well for so long, and partly to test the control I think I've developed over the time I've been sober, see if I can leave it at just a few beers, or just one day's drinking. It's never worked. Every single time the few beers / one day thing has kicked off a massive bender, or turned into a pattern of drinking here and there odd days that's developed into a bender, then I'm right back at square one. I've proved to myself now that the only control I have is over whether or not I pick up that first beer. Once picked up all control flies out the window. I drink the first beer, the rest drink themselves. I can't say as I've even enjoyed those first few beers that first night. Not enough to make the potential aftermath worth risking again anyways. Think you need to be pretty sure that either you will be able to limit it to one night only, or pull yourself out if you begin to spiral out of control, and I'm not sure how you could be sure of that realistically? If you're still on the Naltrexone you're unlikely to get the reward / relief you're craving anyways I'd have thought. Isn't the point of it that it blocks what pleasure there might be in it?

Thanks for the congrats N3o BTW. Much appreciated. <3 Still sober, another week under my belt! :)
 
I am always against a relapse because I hate to see people find themselves in the same place. Don't get me wrong, there are people that can do it but a relapse seems more like your mind trying to bargain with you for another drink so it can sink itself back into old habits. Give your self a better reward than a relapse <3 I don't see it as a reward at all because of the way it usually ends.

Sepher - I'm really happy to hear you're still sober. I like how you know how to take it week by week :)
 
Cheers Badfish. :D It's day by day mate, only way I can do it. Anything more than that's too much to get a handle on, and no point setting goals too far into the future. All I have to do is not drink today. The weeks will take care of themselves. ;)
 
Guys thank you so much for your support and advice. I'm just so tired of everything being a constant battle. I never get a break. I'm just reaching breaking point.
 
Maybe it's time for a real break, like going on a short vacation, a day in a sauna resort, hiking, whatever. Something where you can be damn sure no one and nothing bothers you. Consider that even if you are short of money - booze isn't for free either ;)

btw do have somebody who you can talk to about this and sort things out?
 
Yeah. I do have someone who I can talk to about this kinda stuff. But they were MIA for a few days dealing with their own shit and therefore wasn't around. I have really isolated myself from everyone else in my life in the last 2 months, so I don't feel like I've got anyone else I can reach out to.

And even if I did have people to reach out to, I've been so intent on this "relapse", that I doubt any amount of reaching out would've had an effect.

It's fine though, it's under control.
 
Good to hear you're still on track <3

You wouldn't believe how much talking to someone in real life can change. When I went to the meeting that saved my ass last monday my original intent was to go to Hamburg and score a shitload of opiates. After talking everything through at the meeting, all the cravings were gone. I remembered what I could do to fight those urges. Reach out for the people you isolated yourself from, I bet they will all be glad to hear from you. Don't let the little evil woman in your head tell you it's hopeless - that is a lie!
 
n3ophy7e said:
Yeah. I do have someone who I can talk to about this kinda stuff. But they were MIA for a few days dealing with their own shit and therefore wasn't around. I have really isolated myself from everyone else in my life in the last 2 months, so I don't feel like I've got anyone else I can reach out to.

And even if I did have people to reach out to, I've been so intent on this "relapse", that I doubt any amount of reaching out would've had an effect.

It's fine though, it's under control.
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So I gather. Hope you're both ok, things turn out ok. No reply necessary. Dunno if you feel like expanding on the under control thing. Not sure how to read that in the light of recent posts? Again, no explanation necessary, just hope you're ok. <3

VanWeyden said:
Good to hear you're still on track <3

You wouldn't believe how much talking to someone in real life can change. When I went to the meeting that saved my ass last monday my original intent was to go to Hamburg and score a shitload of opiates. After talking everything through at the meeting, all the cravings were gone. I remembered what I could do to fight those urges. Reach out for the people you isolated yourself from, I bet they will all be glad to hear from you. Don't let the little evil woman in your head tell you it's hopeless - that is a lie!
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Good result VanWeyden. I do so need to get that bit of support outside myself going. I tend to isolate myself on a downward spiral cos I'm not functional and rational enough to reach out to those I have got, plus there's the denial aspect in that I don't want them to know I'm failing, and think less of me, or worry 'bout me. Isolate myself again when on an up and recovering cos I feel like I should be strong enough to do this on my own without burdening anyone else with my problems. Never was very good at finding the middle ground. I'm ok at the purely social stuff and am starting to be more pro-active there, just struggling to find things that would offer that shoulder to lean on when I need it. Not without feeling like I have to sign up to a belief system I have a mental block on and can't find my way to accepting on my terms rather than what I think are theirs like AA.
 
Yes, it's ridiculous... every time I relapse or hit rock bottom with sth. in general I realize that there is no reason to feel bad because of my shortcomings, the mistakes I make etc., and how liberating is to be open about my issues with somebody. But as I get better, I become vain & arrogant and start to hide things I don't like about myself. I have the craze that I lose face once I admit weakness then. Eventually shit starts crumbling and my pride keeps me from reaching for help and it has to get really bad before sth. happens. After that I always feel like "ok, lesson learned. I won't fall for that trick again." And a few months later it's the same catch 22 all over again.
 
I'm convinced that we live in some of the absolutely worst times and cultures for being expected to show a strong, perfect face to the world and to ourselves in the mirror every day. I think advertising and marketing in general have created such a burden for people. You are expected to be wealthy, successful, happy at all times, smart, beautiful or handsome in completely unnatural ways and a few dozen other things on the side. Throw parenting into the mix and you are expected to not only achieve all this yourself but your children had better do so as well! No wonder we all feel that it is so hard to trust others with our imperfections. But it is all Emperor's New Clothes! The more we make ourselves vulnerable, especially when we are down on ourselves, the more others reveal their own humanity to us. You are so right about it being easier when all is going well to throw out a self-deprecating remark but when we are the most vulnerable the impulse is to cover it up.

Completely different subject: does anyone have any experience with online recovery groups such as Rational Recovery. I realize that I am always advocating this as an alternative to AA but I don't actually know anyone that utilizes it. I just really like their philosophy and practical approach on paper but am wondering what people's experience is. I don't hear it talked about much here which I have always assumed is because t is not very available IRL but what about online?

Stay strong everybody. <3
 
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