Alcoholism discussion thread v. 5.0

[alanwatts]

A woman who has been in AA and has a heroin problem just called me and asked me to an AA meeting. I've never done heroin but I've been busted for DUI And currently have no license Think I should go with her? I think so. I'm saying yes. I think we could support each other. We are friends already so 2 are better than 1! Loneliness can be a sickness unto itself. I don't think I have to have a PHD to figure that out. Take a long drink of water and relax!

 

[harlans]

yes! for sure go!!!! i got sober in aa with a girl who was a hard core heroin addict. she felt more comfortable in aa than na.

 

[Vaya]

michael, thanks! Yeah, depending on whether or not I qualify for the IPP program, that may be an option for me - and DEFINITELY a preferable one wherein I could maintain a M-F job. Still awaiting the law's dissection of my character, first

blahman, man you do know how to fucking rock responses in this thread. Your words are all too-true (some unfortunately so ) and you've shown me some truthful and comforting insight from someone on the other side. A temp agency is a great idea! I'd never thought of that.

Currently I'm keeping my $10/hour job until I lose my license and get sentenced. What my girl is most concerned about us my having a job and means of paying rent after getting out of prison. I'm guessing that, were it to be worst-case scenario and I go for 90 straight days, there's no way to ensure employment once released, eh? Sounds entirely unlikely, even as I type it out, but if there's one thing I've noticed here in TDS is that asking what I perceive to be hopeless and/or futile questions sometimes bears fruit beyond my wildest dreams.

I really appreciate the time you took to write that response out, man.

Be well,
~ Vaya

 

[LaserHosen]

I am struggling with alcohol (again!) and I have a doctor's appointment today in a few hours.

I was just thinking: does anyone have a meticulously planned routine to avoid the pitfalls of this disease? i.e. Alarm, set for 6 am, 7 days a week, go for a jog for 3.37Km, eat at exactly the same time every day?

I know this sounds OCD but I think a lot of my relapses stem from myself being lasseiz fare and complacent with this disease and I'm wondering if sticking to a rigid set of events would stop me from relapsing? Does anyone do this without it sending them insane? Is it a viable strategy to9 beat this horrible disease?

 

[PriestTheyCalledHim]

I am not an alcoholic but I had a period of my life when I was drinking way too much daily to try to ignore my emotions, and other things. I started drinking when I was 14 and drank some all through highschool; but I didn't really start to abuse alcohol until I was 22 and I was in college.

I would just go out to the bars nightly and I really have no way to calculate how much I drank over this time period since I did this pretty much daily and I'd drink at least a few beers or mixed drinks daily, and then the next day after I woke up hungover, went to classes, did work, and then I'd go out and do it all again the next night. The only times I wasn't drunk was when I was in class, taking exams, or when I was working on something for college but as soon as it was all done I would go drink and party.

I developed a huge tolerance very fast, bloated up like a horse, I had some of the worst hangovers ever but the scary part was I could be very drunk on a large amount of alcohol and I could easily hide being drunk because of my tolerance. I never want to get this way again. I remember having sex with strangers while drunk but at least I never had unsafe sex, or got picked up by someone who is completely nuts and into hurting other people. I also never had access to a car or opiates/benzos during this time period which I am thankful for.

Anyway to make a long story short I was able to stop drinking like this but I very slowly cut back. I did not go to AA/treatment but I was able to stop on my own.

After college I would have times when I was OK but I'd slip up and if I was at a bar with friends, on vacation and didn't have to drive, or I was at a party with friends or free booze was around I'd binge and drink 6-12 drinks that night. Sometimes I'd be home alone and I'd tell myself I would have just one drink and then I'd wind up having a lot more than that.

I have decided to completely stop drinking all alcohol since I am going to be 30 in the spring, and it's best if I avoid it completely now. I could easily stop using other things but alcohol is very difficult since you can go to bars, restaurants, a friend's place, etc. and easily buy it, or someone will sometimes give you a free drink.

Maybe I don't have a real problem or what I wrote about how I am going to stop drinking sounds extreme but that's what I do I go into things full force when I want to do them.

 

[RedLeader]

I was just thinking: does anyone have a meticulously planned routine to avoid the pitfalls of this disease? i.e. Alarm, set for 6 am, 7 days a week, go for a jog for 3.37Km, eat at exactly the same time every day?

I've always been of the belief that switching to healthy replacement addictions works better than trying to think yourself out of an addictive personality. And I think that when selecting a replacement addiction, it's good to pick one that drinking/using actually threatens directly. Since I quit habitually drinking and using heroin, I've gotten back into weightlifting. I try and make it to the gym almost everyday, and I would say that I'm definitely addicted to it. And the more I learn about the science of building muscles, the more I understand that alcohol (and the drugs I abused, but not quite as seriously as alcohol) is about the worst weightlifting supplement out there. So as long as I'm in the mindset of wanting to sculpt my body, I see drinking as equivalent to injury or eating nothing but cookies and cake, or anything else really that would be "incredibly stupid" from a common-sense perspective for successful lifting. Granted I've had a few relapses over the past year, but think outlook has really helped me limit the severity and the duration of these incidents, really helping to keep them "isolated."

I also find that getting up early is extremely helpful to staying sober. Not just so that you can be productive, but also so that you're going to bed early. When you're going to bed early, you're avoiding those late-night hours during which we tend to think ourselves into some really bad mental states.

 

[LaserHosen]

That makes sense, RedLeader and I see you as someone that is not going to the gym to try and look good (although that's obviously a bonus) but someone that needs to do that burst of energy once a day to make them feel like they've achieved something.

I also need to rebuild my psyce, I think, as I have done some things recently that really make me ashamed of myself. I have posted pictures of myself on the internet naked and talked to people on public forums that I am totally ashamed of. I thought it was funny at the time but in hindsight it was just drinking stinking thinking. I felt suicidal a couple of days ago and I feel it is make or break time for me. I hear sometimes in meetings that people have seperated their old personalities from their sober ones and I think that's what I need to do. I was up watching people speak of alcoholism on YouTube the other night and this guy speaks in a slightly detached way about his old life. Almost as if he has been reborn and that was the old him. I think that is one way of coping with the guilt and shame of hopeless addiction and it seems like quite a good attitude to have, although people that have never been addicts might think it's a bit weird.

Anyway, I'm gonna get ready for the doctor now and hopefully get some help with drying out.

 

[Sepher]

Cyc, I only half caught the post you edited out the other night just passing through. Are you ok fella?

Blahman, I'm really happy your doing better mate, but FFS the beer in the fridge man. Noooooooo, not again! You've been here before fella, and look what happened. You seemed determined to test your resolve with stuff like this, but it's laying traps for yourself that you can ( perhaps almost with relief ) fall into. Get rid of it Blahman. Why d'you put yourself through this? Is it a comfort thing knowing it's there if you buckle? You know having it there makes buckling all the more likely, don't you? You know that's true.

Vaya, Blahman made anything I could say pretty much redundant, but hope things go ok for you man. I've been right up to the brink a few times lately, full-on self destruct mode just plucking the cards out at random almost trying to make the whole thing collapse, but other people have kinda refused to let me do that, understanding that's what I was doing and shoring the whole house back up for a while till I found my feet. In the past others have offered me a safety net for when I did make it fall. I owe a lot of people an awful lot and am trying to make it up to them. Don't really have anything constructive to say beyond what Blahman said, except to add that you'll get through this ok whatever happens, and wish you the best of luck mate.

Laser, I go the other way and try not to be too rigid with set anythings. For me it's kinda setting myself up to fail setting hard targets, cos when I miss them I feel like I've let myself down, and I'm slipping, and OMG this is too hard, yadda yadda ya, and there goes the negative self-talk and feelings of failure that lie at the root of my addictive behaviours. I find I work better taking things day by day, cos when I do set out to do something as and when I feel inclined and manage to pull it off I can then bask in feelings of accomplishment, instead of wallowing in feelings of failure, and that feeds into the motivation to do more of it. It seems to work better that way for me. YMMV!

Right, update time . . . . Day 59, or 8 weeks and 3 days, and counting. Could probably get away with calling that 2 months, but lets be right, eh? Why rush? I'm doing good. Really good. I could have had a drink tonight quite easily. Been away from home visiting my sis most of the week, forgot to take my meds down with me, forgot to take them since I've been back so no antabuse for 7-8 days. Well out of my system by now. Remembered as I passed the off-licence nipping back into work for some bits and pieces I need to do this weekend, flashed momentarily on the realisation and the thought I could have 'just' a couple of beers if I wanted. Dismissed it there and then, not even a momentary crave or wobble. Got to work, dug the meds bottle out of my drawer and double dosed to get the concentration back up to strength ASAP. Feel quite pleased with meself that not for a second did I contemplate giving in to a drink. I'm feeling too good at the minute, feeling happier, and stronger, and altogether more together than I can remember. I really feel like, for now at least, I have a real solid grip on this. Hope to G*d it continues . . . . .

 

[blahman8000]

Sepher - First of all, congrats on nearly 2 months sober. Glad to see you're continuing to do well. Secondly, you're totally right. It's obviously totally irrational for me to buy beer, but it's as if half of my brain wants to drink and the other have knows better and wants nothing to do with alcohol. I refused to get rid of the beer because a part of me really wanted to drink it. Yet that night, I refused to drink it because I wanted to remain clean. I was on the fence until I admittedly ended up drinking it. I've been drinking. Not a lot, honestly, as work has kept me occupied. But I've been drinking beer nightly, and a couple of times early in the day. It seems strange to be in the midst of a relapse yet my life isn't showing the familiar immediate signs of falling apart (yet?). I understand how easy it is for this stuff to engulf my whole life, though, and I don't want to lose what I'm working for. It seems that my issues are still pulling me back to alcohol. I'm in this cycle of sobering up for a period of time (sometimes a few days, sometimes a few weeks, sometimes a few months), and relapsing once I get too comfortable.

LaserHosen - RedLeader's advice is golden here, as usual! Although I'm currently struggling, I've found that one of the best ways to deter myself from a relapse is exercise and general self-improvement. Once you get yourself into a healthy lifestyle with exercise and good diet, the detriment of consuming alcohol becomes more and more apparent. And your progress will put distance between you and the drink. I'm a hell of a lot healthier when I'm sober, I look and most importantly I FEEL much better, and yet with each lasting relapse I've watched my mental and physical health dwindle.

PriestTheyCalledHim - Congrats on deciding to abstain from alcohol! It's great that you're quitting while you're still young, and you're being conscious of your future and your health.

 

[Sepher]

Blahman, but you're letting the irrational half of you lay traps knowing the rational part of you must stay ever vigilant and continually work up the resolve. The addict part of you knows you're gonna have moments of weakness, so what it does is enable the rational half to give in more easily when you're having a shit day. It's completely undermining you. And no, the first few days of a relapse never seem all that bad, do they, cos the momentum you've built up sober with things like work and stuff keeps going a little while longer while you bask in the comforting, rosy glow of an alcohol haze, but you know as well as I do that the wheels are gonna come off at some point, and sooner rather than later. Man I know you know all this, I'm not trying to teach granny how to suck eggs or beat you up about it, I know exactly how this thing we're caught up in works fella, but please, pull out while you still can mate, before things progress again. You were over the moon when you had your test results back and all was well. Try to remember how you felt and hold on to it hard, see if that can't help you find your way back. Best of luck man.

 

[jspun]

Laser

have posted pictures of myself on the internet naked and talked to people on public forums that I am totally ashamed of. I thought it was funny at the time but in hindsight it was just drinking stinking thinking. I felt suicidal a couple of days ago and I feel it is make or break time for me.

Posting pix in the lounge... I never did that but in my drinking days i would have closed down the thread. Now I've lost 14 ilbs in the 70 days I've been sober.

Anyway, guilt and resentments are the mind killers. I think you hit seperating new personalities from old ones. Actually I'm finding it involves breaking down our sick personality and through the steps building one based on principle, compassion, and altruisim.

I'm on my way to an NA mtg or I would respond to other posts.

This pissed me off at an AA mtg to the point that I almost had a meltdown. People were sharing that if you are a new commer you have to get the willingness to go up an stick your hand out... Those fucking pricks... its the oldtimers job to stick their hand out and make the new commers feel welcome.

And I hate the fuckin clicks (in central San Diego). Though I got to work the steps, change, ect... I am devoted to bringing down the waging battle on the cliques. Having said that, I have a story about a classic NA mtg that almost folded but has boomed because of just that... when we would be in our clicks the old timer would nudge us and tell us to go up to the guy standing alone feeling awkward and welcome them. I went the other day after my year relapse and a guy with less time than me did just that, "have you been to this mtg before"... he was socialized by being wrapped in a buble of love.

My friends in NA, AA, and HA don't understand my love for bluelight (and I still read about drugs on pertinent forum). One girl told me to pick up a healthy addiction like internet porn... that shits boring... BL is my internet porn... HaHaHaHa... Life gets better.

 

[blahman8000]

Blahman, but you're letting the irrational half of you lay traps knowing the rational part of you must stay ever vigilant and continually work up the resolve. The addict part of you knows you're gonna have moments of weakness, so what it does is enable the rational half to give in more easily when you're having a shit day. It's completely undermining you. And no, the first few days of a relapse never seem all that bad, do they, cos the momentum you've built up sober with things like work and stuff keeps going a little while longer while you bask in the comforting, rosy glow of an alcohol haze, but you know as well as I do that the wheels are gonna come off at some point, and sooner rather than later. Man I know you know all this, I'm not trying to teach granny how to suck eggs or beat you up about it, I know exactly how this thing we're caught up in works fella, but please, pull out while you still can mate, before things progress again. You were over the moon when you had your test results back and all was well. Try to remember how you felt and hold on to it hard, see if that can't help you find your way back. Best of luck man.

Hey man, thanks for your response. I've spent the weekend drinking far too much, and honestly I feel like garbage right now. I've been laying in bed all day, sick. I just wish I hadn't done this. I need to learn to keep myself on track and I need to get some help. The wake up call didn't come immediately, like you've pointed out. The first few days were okay. I felt like I could just be a regular daily drinker, without the heavy consequences that I'm already used to. But before I knew it, I was already drinking in the morning because I wasn't sure I could make it through the day. I'm already "maintaining." But now that I have a few bucks, and I have health insurance, I need to sober up and get some real help.

I hate being drunk now. I'm sure that sounds silly because it's a state of mind I'm striving to arrive at, but I end up feeling like shit. I get sick and exhausted after a six pack, and I black out pretty easily now. I'm not sure what that even means. I just hate it. But when I'm sober for a while and reality sinks in, there's this instinct to distance myself from everything.

I feel like I am betraying those that have tried to help. The nurses at the hospital that were so kind and attentive, and truly seemed to care. And those of you who contribute to this board and are more helpful than you know. This drug never delivers when I end up turning to it, and it's taken too much time away. I get some time sober, and I forget what one drink can lead to. I just can't do it on my own, so I've got to do what it takes to get better.

 

[jspun]

Blahman, I fee; for you brother. I am intimately familiar with the extent to which drinking can make you feel shity.

I have relapsed several times. Its the nature of the best...

I get some time sober, and I forget what one drink can lead to.

To quote the AA Big book,

"The fact is that most alcoholics, for reasons yet obscure, have lost the power of choice in drink. Our so-called willpower becomes practically non-existent. We are unable, at certain times, to bring into our consciousness with sufficient force the memory of the suffering and humiliation of even a week or a month ago. We are without defense against the first drink.
- A.A. Big Book, p. 24

Anyway, 72 days sober and my life gets better. I suspect with a high degree of confidence to maintain abstinece and stay happy is gonna take alot of work on my part but so far its been worth it.

I lucky that there are alot of good people here for me in North County San Diego. Many people in meetings in the central parts of the county's AA suffer from hipsteritis and pretentiousness. Like being stuck in high school hell. Other 12 step fellowships not as bad in that particular area.

Anyway we all know that all the true cool kids post on bluelights. Half of those poseurs never even heard of BL.

Good luck Blahman and keep us posted. What part of the world do you reside in anyway? If you don't mind me asking.

(Dont worry about the nurses and others that have tried to help) you can make ammends to them latter after you get sober.

May Peace and Healing come your way.

 

[Vaya]

Sepher, thank you very much.



EDIT: 30 days, today

 

[jspun]

Vaya Happy 30 days!!!

Sephr Good job on 60 +. I'm right there with you at 73 today. Now I'm Meeting bound.

This weekend is gonna be the true test- going out for someones birthday from work after work friday and I have
another birthday BBQ then whatever after on sat. Then there is the AA southern CA convention I'd rather be at this weekend.

 

[rcc01a]

It's been a little while since I've posted on bluelight but I've been reading these forums for years and years now. I'm a 26 and definitely an alcoholic. Today is day 6 of being sober for me. I haven't gone this long without a drink for over a year, I'd bet. My psych put me on disulfiram and naltrexone. I'm not sure how much the naltrexone helps but the disulfiram certainly does. The thought of acetaldehyde poisoning is down right scary and certainly enough to keep me from drinking. I know I can't drink. Period. This really is a great deterrent and staves off the head games of wondering if I could just have a couple drinks. I would have to go 2 weeks without this stuff to be able to drink half a beer and not feel like death.

I started drinking heavily when I was 15 or so, sometimes binge drinking a few times a week, sometimes hitting the bottle when I got out of bed. These habits have gotten worse over the years and I finally had to confront the fact that alcohol was going to ruin my life. Here's what doesn't help: I'm a bartender. The obvious answer is to quit right? Well I've worked there for 6 years, I'm a manager, I have good employer provided health insurance (I live in the US) and I can make a decent living while I put myself through school. I dropped out of school when I was 20 and I just started back, shifting from liberal arts to biology. Tending bar pays for classes and gives me a flexible schedule. I'm on 5 different meds-- welbutrin, kolonopin, lamictal, antabuse (disulfiram) and naltrexone. I would kinda like to keep my health insurance. Also I can't really let on to most people I work with that I'm taking disulfiram or that I'm planning on going to AA or NA or something. I'm going to school so I can get away from this environment. It's a bit of a catch 22.

I haven't seen a lot of chatter on BL about disulfiram and a good portion of it seems negative. I'm thinking about halving my 250mg pills so I don't get super sensitive to alcohol to the point of spilling a bit on myself on a busy night making me ill. I'd still be too scared to drink with the probable blood serum levels of the drug in my system if I took 125mg daily due to the crazy long half-life. I guess I just really want to quit and this seems like a bit of a silver bullet. My dad and shrink both want me to go to AA or NA or something of the sort. I think a group therapy type thing would be good but I have heard AA is a bit religious and refers to higher powers and such. Am I mistaken? Are there other groups one could find in a major East Coast city?

I needed to lay down a rant and this seemed to be a good place. Thanks for any feedback.

 

[Cyc]

Two drinking days in the last 3 weeks isn't bad. The fact that they were back-to-back is still a tad worrisome. I started a new job so that takes 5 days of the week out of the equation for me. I think it's really helping me to keep things under control.

 

[Vaya]

Thanks, jspun :D

 

[jspun]

rcc01a

My dad and shrink both want me to go to AA or NA or something of the sort. I think a group therapy type thing would be good but I have heard AA is a bit religious and refers to higher powers and such. Am I mistaken? Are there other groups one could find in a major East Coast city?

Thats a common obstacle and misconception. 12 step groups are spiritual not religious programs. Talk of any specific religion is highly discouraged and for the vast majority, depending on the area, organized religion is anathema. I've known atheists to get sober and remain atheists. There are atheists and agnostic mtgs typically in major US cities.
Many choose the group or the process as their "higher power."

NA tends to frown on religion even more, often times militantly. Again this varies by region.

My suggestion is, given your age, go to a young people's meeting and when they ask for new commers say its your first meeting ever. I can't stress this enough. If they let you share start out that you have reservations about 12 step recovery because you are not down with the whole God thing or Religion, or whatever your concern is. Then you can concisely state what brought you there (ie your drinking history).

Find someone you can relate to and ask them for meeting suggestions. If you call the central line they'll tell you probably all meetings are good and send you to the closest one or one that needs support. Check the internet and look for a youth or beginers meeting, or agnostic meeting if there is one available. Go to a few meetings before pronouncing judgement. Find ones you like. No reason why this can't be fun.

And if you still feel uncomfortable, there is always rational recovery which I don't know much about but is always an option- I'm sure you can find meetings in most major cities of the East Coast of this fellowship.

If you hear something you don't like or something that offends your sensibilities ignore it. It is after all still (mostly) a free country.

The most important thing is that you find something that works because based on your post you have an extensive and concerning drinking history.

On the other hand you have a bright future ahead of you most likely.

Anyway, this aint a theoretical construct, I am relatively happy today, have good friends, a good life, and most importantly freedom from drinking. I could go anywhere others do and not drink (without needing antabuse)- This is a gift of the program. I drank daily before getting sober, had the shakes in the AM, ect... and got sober without rehab.

Anyway, just sharing my experience. Good luck!!!

Congrats on 6 days, thats huge.

 

[Sepher]

Good job Vaya! Glad to hear it. One month down, on to the next target. Might have missed this but you heard any more about how the legal thing's moving at the moment? Got a court date or anything?

And Jspun, I did mean to comment on your recent posts previously so apologies for neglecting them. They've been a good read. Yeah, we're in very similar places I imagine. I find that really useful sometimes cos it seems quite often there's a real pattern to how things work here, with a lot of commonalities between individuals in terms of what they're experiencing at any given time. Good to be kind of in lock-step with someone, particularly someone a little ahead of you cos quite often they share something that rings a bell and there's a sudden little ha haaaaaaa moment as a little light switches on as far as understanding your own experience is concerned! Hope we can both get something useful from it maybe? And blasted through the two months official thing Monday by my reckoning, making this day 65. :D

Hey rcc01a, welcome to the thread. I'm on antabuse myself again, 200mg a day. It's working well for me at the moment, now that I'm using it properly to reinforce what is at last a real determination not to drink. When I first started using i I was stopping drinking largely for other people, my partner and boss for instance, and so felt like it was a solution forced onto me that I didn't really want. I still wanted to drink and got into manipulating the meds, trying to out fox it so I'd have some protection through the week so I didn't lose my job, but still being able to drink on a weekend. Got caught out a few times with it, hospitalised once thinking I was having a heart-attack. ( I wasn't! )

It doesn't even occur to me to play around with it anymore. I just keep taking the tablets largely out of force of habit, not because I think I'm really in danger of drinking at the moment. It was very useful the first 4 weeks or so when the withdrawal symptoms were still present and the cravings bad. They make it very easy to dismiss a craving without dwelling on it, driving myself insane with the shall I / shan't get a drink thing that just ramps up the anxiety and weakens the resolve.

As far as your thoughts about halfing the dose goes, I was told by my doc I could do that once I'd accumulated enough in my system, so tried it for a while. This is when I was still playing with dosing. I found it much less effective, and when I did get a reaction from it it was mild enough to make drinking worth the risk. I stick to the full dose to make sure the deterrent effect is fully there. I've never had the kind of reaction they warn you about with after-shave penetrating through the skin, or tiramisu or whatever so I don't worry about that. Ive had to go out of my way to cause one quite deliberately with a drink. YMMV but if you're anything like me I'd leave the dose where it is.