Alcoholism discussion thread v. 5.0

[badfish45]

My friend's parents are both alcoholics, one who's recovering and clean for about 2 years and the mom who has been addicted for about 30 years. She was clean for about 6 months and recently started drinking again. Within a week of her first relapse she's in the ICU on life support. As much as I hate her mom (she made fun of me being suicidal) I really do fear for her. I also fear for the sake of my friend's family. She has an nine year old sister.

 

[Changed]

I'm starting a month of abstinence, today, as a health experiment with my best friend. We're going to be following Tim Ferriss's 4 Hour Body program in an attempt to get into the best shape of our lives. I think I'll post in here as an attempt to catalog how things progress.

The one thing that I expect to change dramatically is my sense of smell and taste. I've been chronically 'stuffed up' for years-- probably from drinking. My sense of taste has also been eroded. Hopefully these things return.

I'm also interested to see how no alcohol impacts my sexual performance.

 

[stardust.hero]

Changed, that sounds like a really great line up and plan you have going. I find that alcohol is the hardest to abstain from. I bet you will notice a lot of difference in all of those areas. I noticed a large difference in my overall attitude, my anxiety level and my ability to sleep. Alcohol makes me feel like a completely different person. I am always surprised at how positive I am on the days I didn't drink the day before.

 

[Changed]

Yeah, anxiety has been getting to me lately when I drink heavily. All aspects of life are tied together (eg. work + stress + eating habits + drinking), but I think it is hard to see that when you're blunting everything about yourself with alcohol.

Well, last night should be the hardest day not to drink at work, but had no cravings whatsoever. Going to a baseball game on Monday with my co-workers, and I'm sure they'll try to get me to drink, but no thanks.

 

[harlans]

It's been 47 days or so since the last time I drank. I also managed not to request and more temazepam when i saw my doc this week. last weekend was a benzo travesty. i was talking it daily to stave off my urges for booze, but last weekend i took way way tpp much (300+ mg) between friday night and saturday night. i did some really stupid shit - like spending money online that i don't have. the it sent me on that alcoholic like tailspin and I couldn't go to work all week (pleasedon'tletmegetfiredpleasedon'tletmegetfired). PLEASE DON'T LET ME GET FIRED!

So last night I'm feeling super anxious, guilt, failure, uncertainty, hatred of myself and my stupid alcoholic brain that always pulls the rug out from under me. So i took some avitan - 8mg and 50 mgs seroquel. Now I'm groggy as hell and back in the shiny boat of misery, but at least i didn't drink. Everything would have been worse and there's a good chance i'd have tried to kill myself again

 

[Vaya]

Yeah, anxiety has been getting to me lately when I drink heavily. All aspects of life are tied together (eg. work + stress + eating habits + drinking), but I think it is hard to see that when you're blunting everything about yourself with alcohol.

This is a really poignant statement. It's one of those things I might've been thinking as I gazed at the half-empty bottle of whiskey I'd bought not 60 minutes before - if I could recall my thought patterns in such a murky state of mind. I suppose one source of the problem is the fact that, while our awareness of the fact decreases, everything in our lives maintains an equilibrium level of connectivity. Somehow, we knock out one block; the whole house falls over, and we're standing there angry, confused, resentful and determined to DRINK!

....oh, boy. Those days. 8)

Great post!

Right on! I've been toying with the idea of rewarding my first week free of hard drugs w/ a Lego set, something utterly frivolous. I haven't opened a new Lego set in probably at least 16 years, however, I think it'll evoke a simpler time when reward systems had some real viability in my life, so Legos it is! I still have to decide if I want medieval, pirate, or Star Wars....

Awesome!!!

Seriously, that gave me the widest grin

It's been 47 days or so since the last time I drank. I also managed not to request and more temazepam when i saw my doc this week.

Score! 47 days is incredible work, harlans. At 47 days, the changes within myself that sobriety was setting into motion were only just becoming evident to me. It was almost like a re-birth, slowed down to an unimaginably sluggish timescale. But in reality, things were moving much more quickly towards positive things than I had ever dreamt possible before. I wish the same for you, too. And anyone who embarks upon the highly treacherous waters of this type of self-exploration. You're definitely in deep sea conditions; keep at it! The light will begin to reach you... the pressure will disperse...

Always take your time.

for this thread

~ Vaya

 

[Cohesion]

You're definitely in deep sea conditions; keep at it! The light will begin to reach you... the pressure will disperse...

Always take your time.

for this thread

~ Vaya

I am doing great. To my non-negotiables I have stayed true.
1. No booze in my new place.
2. Drinking a few beer or wine every other day after 5 pm.

This is my 4th sober night. (That's a week's worth of every-other day drinking).

Earlier in this thread I have mentioned "cravings" a lot. They are the hardest part. It seems like the pressure IS dispersing. n30 I know what you mean when you say it gets easier ... cravings are more like quiet murmurs as we get more practice saying "no" (again and again). It's those first few days that need real resolve and just get through. With what we occupy ourselves for those awful, emotional hours is a very individual choice. (Running...cooking healthiest food ever...endless episodes of Lost...talk radio...tears!)

Someone said, "...a drink starts to look REALLY rational...". This phrase has stuck with me. When cravings rise up I'm all, that's right on, WSS.

And we are helping each other. It's almost unbelievable.

 

[Vaya]

Someone said, "...a drink starts to look REALLY rational...". This phrase has stuck with me.

Oh yeah... I kinda remember that guy... yeah, here I found his exact wording:

When I forget the pain, the torment, the self-loathing, selfishness and agony, a drink begins to look REALLY good, and REALLY rational.

lol :D
I'm really glad that it stuck with, and apparently continues to help, you mami

And we are helping each other. It's almost unbelievable.

The Dark Side

My best wishes to you; as always, check back in frequently!

~ Vaya

 

[blahman8000]

With what we occupy ourselves for those awful, emotional hours is a very individual choice. (Running...cooking healthiest food ever...endless episodes of Lost...talk radio...tears!)

I can absolutely relate. Lost has gotten me through COUNTLESS sober nights. If Charlie can sober up, then so can we!

I think I've essentially replaced my addiction to alcohol with an addiction and obsession with getting healthy and bettering myself. When I'm feeling down, I definitely do get the urge to drink, but deep down I know that I'll be throwing away all the hard work I've done since I've sobered up. And all that hard work has made me feel better than I have in years.

 

[Changed]

Covered a shift last night for somebody, and worked alongside my favorite bartender. We tend to drink a bunch together when we work, and two hours before my shift ended he asked if I wanted to split a beer. I hadn't even thought about drinking before that, and immediately said no thanks. I have neither physical nor psychological cravings for alcohol-- I just tended to drink either A. out of boredom, or B. so that I could stand to hang out with friends/people that drink a fair share. If I have no cravings for alcohol and no attachment beyond drinking just to have something in my hand, does that mean I'm not really an alcoholic?

Once I've begun to take control of my life-- choosing to return to a healthy diet, increasing exercise, reading a lot more, stop being dependent on my lover, etc-- drinking is just another thing that goes out the window when I turn auto-pilot off.

 

[n3ophy7e]

^^ So awesome to hear this Changed


It's been 22 days of sobriety for me. Never thought I'd be able to say that

 

[S.M.F.G]

Ahh fuck with the kid gone im heading back to the status of social drinker being one or two with said g/f or mate or down the oub if i feel liek it, sill be stopping again once shes back, but i kinda dont like mself without alchohol sometimes.. im just such an asshole. Wait maybe thats just me all around.

 

[stardust.hero]

You are not an asshole SMFG. Ugh I cannot be a social drinker what so ever. I wish I was able to gauge myself and be able to tell when I'm drunk. Rather I just crack open a bottle and when it's done I know I'm drunk. I have absolutely no control with alcohol at all.

N3o, you amaze me you are doing absolutely awesome. 22 days is so serious. The only time I had 22 days was when I was switching from booze to heroin. When I was on heroin I was clean from booze. Go figure. Now clean from heroin not clean from booze. The cycle ensues. 8(8(8(

 

[Mariposa]

n3o - I am ever so proud of you. 20+ days abstinent is a major accomplishment. You have my unconditional love and support as you go through the rough times. I've got a pretty flute glass that is just as easily filled with sparkling cider with your name on it.

Night before last I got into a hell of a crabby/cabin feverish mood, so I went to the pub with my dog and my alkie non- boyfriend who I talked about before. Probably not the best course of action. I have a messenger bag for myself and a bag I carry with my dog's essentials. I asked him to grab them. He instead took off with one of our friend's backpacks! Of course I retrieved my stuff (including my wallet, phone, keys, bankcard, license, etc.) but somehow he grabbed our friend's bag by accident - which had his homework due early in it!!! It gets better. Read on.

I decided that the best thing to do would be to not drink another drop, and by then it was very late, I was exhausted from my day and so was my dog. I've stayed at his house many times before, so I decided to again. I had a soda and made the drive easily and safely. We and the dog caught a few hours of sleep. We were awakened (fully dressed - we're not hooking up anymore at my insistence) by his aunt screaming that someone broke into her bedroom at 4 AM. WTF. It was our friend looking for his backpack, which was later found on top of my car on the passenger side where my dude was sitting.

Dude's getting kicked out of his house next week. His aunt gives him such mixed messages, though. I'm sure her 11 years younger husband and her successful business make her want to drink too - which she does around him. Regardless, she owns her house outright and has the right to say he cannot live there anymore. He won't be living with me, that's for damned sure.

My problem with alcohol was always something I kept private, because it caused me significant embarrassment and self-loathing. I have, and continue to, structure my life in manners that are incompatible with problematic drinking. I can't handle this irresponsible behavior, so I stay (relatively) sober.

I have a bit of a theory on alcohol use. I'm sure I'm not the first to have these thoughts. Alcohol can facilitate social interactions just as much as it can inhibit healthy ones. It really can be fun and rewarding to meet up with friends in social drinking situations. That was my purpose the other night... just to relax a bit. Obviously, it spiraled.

My birthday is this Saturday. I will be 32... wtf, I neither look nor most moments do I feel it. My dog is one of the major reasons I am staying (relatively) sober. An 11-month old Siberian Husky, a possible new relationship with a non-drinker, a new house, work as crazy as it has ever been... I'm task-saturated. Learning coping mechanisms that don't involve booze is a challenge. I have never been averse to multi-tasking but if I have to take on any more responsibilities, something is going to blow.

 

[sarcophagus.heels]

That's great to hear, n3o! I hope to be able to claim 20+ days sober sometime...

My drinking spiraled something awful last week, and my roommates confronted me about it....not in a bad way, they were just telling me that I don't hide it as well as I think I do, which is valid, and they find it difficult to be around me when I'm like that. Anyway, one shattering hangover later, I've been sober for three days. Now that I think about it, since I've been clean of opiates for about three weeks, that's really the longest I've been clean of both alcohol and opiates in a real long time. Kind of sad to think about, really, but I guess I'll claim minor personal victories where I can.

I'm hopefully starting on an outpatient program at a psych hospital tomorrow - my psychiatrist referred me there, but the last time I went I ended up being sent home because I didn't pass the breathalyzer test. Epic fail. We'll see how it goes this time around.

 

[herbavore]

That is really great that you have been opiate free for 3 weeks and even the 3 days off alcohol is no small feat. Kudos to your roommates for caring enough to talk to you about their feelings. I hate it when friends just talk behind someone's back or cut them out altogether rather than discuss the substance being a problem. Good luck with the outpatient program--I really hope it helps.

 

[bluedom]

I've been sober from alcohol for 3 years. I actually never tried it first... I tried MDMA and LSD before I tried alcohol. It was alcohol that I became addicted to (I used it for 3 years). I was sober from all substances for a year at least (except my seizure meds) and then I had to go on opiates for a spinal injury which I tapered off of. I've found that tripping with DXM + THC (neither of which by themselves I just can't get addicted to) to be really useful in going back to those dark days of alcohol induced psychosis and reanalysing what happened (so it can never happen again). I've been posting on the DXM subthread about my DXM experiences and how it is helping me with my former addiction. (I realise I can never drink alcohol again but the addiction to it is behind me---I feel I can't say that I'm still addicted to a substance I don't use or plan to use.)

 

[harlans]

Ahh fuck with the kid gone im heading back to the status of social drinker being one or two with said g/f or mate or down the oub if i feel liek it, sill be stopping again once shes back, but i kinda dont like mself without alchohol sometimes.. im just such an asshole. Wait maybe thats just me all around.

I feel like I'm not fun or energetic enough without alcohol, so in a sense I like myself better with it. Ultimately, though, alcohol makes me hate the living shit out of myself. I had 5 yrs totally sober - from all substances - and thought social drinking would be ok. It brought me nothing but misery. 2.5 yrs later I've got 50+ days no alcohol. but i've also got 4 hospitalizations and medically monitored detoxes under my belt. Everything went to shit so much faster than before. My tolerance and consumption reached levels it had never in my previous 10+ yrs of drinking. And still I crave. Such a stupid brain I have. Will I go buy booze tonight? I hope not but am tempted

 

[bluedom]

You might've heard this before I feel it can't hurt to say it again: alcohol doesn't give you energy or make you fun. What you're feeling is a WD that is a nagging feeling and it really takes a LOT of days sober to get over this feeling (craving). It is a small feeling and if you ignore it it will go away but it will come back in every situation you drank before that you associated with alcohol. So even if you do something fun and energetic right now you'll miss alcohol because of the association your brain has made. The fun and energy are coming FROM YOU. The alcohol is actually inhibiting that so you're actually more fun and energietic without alcohol but because you miss it now you feel this nagging sensation. It is a little monster (small physical or pyschological WD). The real big monster (addiction) occurs when you give into the alcohol and then do something fun and energetic which reinforces the addiction.

You drank for 10 years. It is highly unlikely that 50 days or even perhaps 50 months will completely get over the nagging feeling. I usually say it takes half the life of the addiction to get over this enough to feel completely confident you'll make it to the end (if it takes 10 years to get into the trap, it will take a full 10 years to get out completely). But the good news is that EVERY SINGLE DAY GETS BETTER. So take it one day at a time. Just make it through the night today. Just make it through the next hour. Don't worry about tonight. Just take it one small step at a time and soon your steps will get bigger and bigger and you'll go for days and weeks without thinking about alcohol (this will happen IMO after 90 days of being sober).

You said you've gone to detox many times, so if you can afford that say through insurance, have you ever gone to in patient treatment for at least about 3 weeks? With a proper treatment plan you put the odds of success in front of you and plus it will take you away from the current situation. I did two detoxes and the first one I just went back to my environment and I was sober for 3 months and started drinking again. So it was only after treatment that I made it to 3 years. I have no craving for alcohol now and my addiction probably was about 2-2.5 years. I started feeling really good after 90 days and I went to daily AA meetings and went through the motions even though I'm an atheist and I think AA itself is a crutch for many people (but it has saved countless lives IMO and so it's a way better crutch than alcohol). That's what you need to find. A healthy crutch that improves your health and quality of life. But I was wiling to use AA as a crutch for at least a year. I think there is value in going to daily AA meetings rigourously.

As you've learnt from your really harsh experience, you are probably not capable of drinking socially ever. That is one drink soon starts to morph into two, and into three, and there goes the "social". I'd accept first and foremost that you just cannot ever drink. This doesn't mean you don't have the ability to drink. Obviously you do (and that's one of the reasons alcohol is so insidious because drinking is a natural activity humans do unlike smoking for example, though no one can drink pure 100% alcohol---try it out a bit or even just smell it and see how you feel---the nasty reaction may help you). But it is like an allergy. If you had a severe life-threatening allergy to peanut butter, would you want to try peanut butter even though you loved it so much? I'd hope not. So likewise with alcohol. Cannot means it's something your body can't take in without a nasty reaction, much like any allergy (single molecules can trigger a severe reaction for many allergies for example). It's a medical condition and nothing wrong with you as a person (since alcohol is so negative and a depressant it eventually makes you feel worn out and worthless and you place all this guilt on your self which brings you down and the only solution you seem to have is alcohol but that just makes it all worse the next day and the cycle continues until you decide to break it).

I'd suggest a few books to read too: Under the Influence by Ingram and ?; How to control your drinking by Allen Carr (you can even drink while you read this book!); and Effective Way to Stop Drinking by Beauchamp Colclough. These books are not magic bullets but they will eventually reinforce your sobriety once you have a many days to you. All of them together have many truths about alcoholism (though none contains all of them interestingly). The first lays out the medical framework for your disease (it is a pathology of your brain). The second is almost a self hypnosis book if you "get it" but either way it basically covers addiction and tries to use rhetoric to take you from point A to point B. And then the third is really a book about how treatment works and again explains the addiction process and what it takes to get out. It is a great complement to any formal treatment you undertake.

There is no easy solution to this. The solution is HARD and requires work. The good thing is that once you start to love being sober, then any mountain becomes easy to climb since you love to climb mountains (in this case, being sober) and eventually you will reach the top.

I feel like I'm not fun or energetic enough without alcohol, so in a sense I like myself better with it. Ultimately, though, alcohol makes me hate the living shit out of myself. I had 5 yrs totally sober - from all substances - and thought social drinking would be ok. It brought me nothing but misery. 2.5 yrs later I've got 50+ days no alcohol. but i've also got 4 hospitalizations and medically monitored detoxes under my belt. Everything went to shit so much faster than before. My tolerance and consumption reached levels it had never in my previous 10+ yrs of drinking. And still I crave. Such a stupid brain I have. Will I go buy booze tonight? I hope not but am tempted

 

[harlans]

^^ Ya, before when I had 5 yrs sobriety it started in another hospital stay followed by awesome treatment stay of 6 weeks, then I moved into a sober living for 90 days. I was completely enmeshed in AA for 5 yrs (well, not so enmeshed the last 2 yrs) and the I blew it. For a boy. Planned my relapse actually for our first date. That's when the last 2.5 yrs of hell started. It feels weird. I don't want to do AA again right now. When I do go I HATE how I lost my former sobriety. I know I can only move forward, but I still feel caught up in trying to "reclaim" my old sobriety. That was a different sobriety. A different me. And so it goes...