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Alcohol Vs. Hard Drugs

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what the fuck is up with your pro-alcohol agenda? i've experienced alcoholism for way too long first hand, and the the changes in neuronal GABA levels (i.e. downregulation) take for fucking ever to half-way normalize again, and is just as bad news as the dopamine downregulation. also ethanol's pharmacological profile is terribly messy, moreso than any other drug i can think of and alcohol exceptionally toxic when abused.
any drug can be safely withdrawn from in a supervised, medical environment. i'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that an alcoholic probably has the highest chance of relapsing of any addict because not only is drinking (even to excess) socially tolerated, it's even expected in certain situations.
often however you do not have the luxury of being under medical supervision while in withdrawal, and do you have any idea how horrible it is to be sick to your very core and yet have to force glass after glass of alcohol down just so you don't run the risk of delirium or seizure?
once you experienced what i just described, you can spout your drivel about alcohol to your hearts content. you obviously have no grasp on the subject matter, nor even a basic understanding of the pharmacokinetics of ethanol.
 
what the fuck is up with your pro-alcohol agenda? i've experienced alcoholism for way too long first hand, and the the changes in neuronal GABA levels (i.e. downregulation) take for fucking ever to half-way normalize again, and is just as bad news as the dopamine downregulation. also ethanol's pharmacological profile is terribly messy, moreso than any other drug i can think of and alcohol exceptionally toxic when abused.
any drug can be safely withdrawn from in a supervised, medical environment. i'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that an alcoholic probably has the highest chance of relapsing of any addict because not only is drinking (even to excess) socially tolerated, it's even expected in certain situations.
often however you do not have the luxury of being under medical supervision while in withdrawal, and do you have any idea how horrible it is to be sick to your very core and yet have to force glass after glass of alcohol down just so you don't run the risk of delirium or seizure?
once you experienced what i just described, you can spout your drivel about alcohol to your hearts content. you obviously have no grasp on the subject matter, nor even a basic understanding of the pharmacokinetics of ethanol.

I am not pro alcohol, nor am I pro marijuana, nor am I biased for or against any specific substances in general. You're misunderstanding my statements. Well, I also am totally disgusted by our society's sickening hypocrisy and double standards about drugs, where, as you had stated, getting drunk is socially acceptable and it's also viewed as "cool" by some people, and those same people will condemn as well as stigmatize marijuana smokers for "doing drugs". According to our society's standards, some drugs are bad, and people that do those drugs are stigmatized as "people that do drugs", while people that do these so called "socially acceptable drugs", are viewed either in a positive or at least in some neutral matter. It's all because of which stuff is taboo and which stuff isn't taboo. It's a bunch of bullshit if you ask me, people should not have any sorts of double standards when it comes to these dangerous substances.

It's all based upon some illogical cultural attitudes and feelings about what's taboo and what isn't, but it's not about which specific drugs are more dangerous than others. It's not based upon facts and logic, it's based upon societal traditions and customs. Either alcohol should be stigmatized or marijuana should become socially acceptable and legalised. This hypocrisy is absolutely sickening, IMHO. I'm not trying to defend alcohol at all.

However, i'm simply stating that unlike crystal meth, heroin, or crack, it's possible to use alcohol in moderation, and also that crystal meth is the hardest drug to quit. All drugs are bad, which also includes alcohol. I'm simply stating that alcohol isn't as addictive or dangerous as crystal meth is.

Also, drinking alcohol in moderation doesn't really destroy somebody's GABA receptors or cause brain or cognitive problems. That stuff only happens if somebody drinks too much alcohol. But if somebody's doing crystal meth, even in moderation it will cause some brain damage. Also, the brain damage that comes from crystal meth happens way faster to somebody (it may even take less than a year to happen, as some studies have shown), whereas with alcohol, that brain damage may take much longer to develop. Alcohol is extremely dangerous, but I wouldn't classify it alongside crystal meth.
 
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Ugh, Elven, you quote the Daily Fail, say that people become 'instantly addicted' to opiates and meth; you have lost all credibility in my eyes.
 
However, i'm simply stating that unlike crystal meth, heroin, or crack, it's possible to use alcohol in moderation, and also that crystal meth is the hardest drug to quit. All drugs are bad, which also includes alcohol. I'm simply stating that alcohol isn't as addictive or dangerous as crystal meth is.

an apology of sorts is in order, as i just glommed most of your posts. however i vehemently disagree that using hard drugs in moderation is impossible. i've been an alcoholic for seven years and only got a handle on it for the last six months or so, but have been fucking around with hard drugs for a long time without ever getting hooked. i just spent a week shooting high grade heroin and even though i have the cash to get more i'm not going out and getting more. even though i consider myself quite educated when it comes to drugs, it's been hammered home all through my life, through school, TV etc. heroin = bad, alcohol = acceptable. i would love nothing more than to go score a gram now and shoot myself into bliss, but i choose not to because i've been physically dependent on quite a few drugs over the years (all GABAergics) and i'm not adding another one to the list.
i can't say much about meth, as it only exists in the club scene, something that i've been out of for a very, very long time and have no interest of getting back into. back when i was still part of that scene (9-10 years ago) meth was incredibly exotic and commanded premium prices.
however i do believe that any drug can be taken every once in a while without developing a psychological addiction. since i can only go from hearsay, yeah, tweak is probably more psychologically addictive than alcohol, but believe me man, alcohol addiction is a beast unlike any other, because you usually don't notice your slow slide into dependency. i'd rather detox from ten smack habits than from one more GABAergic habit.
 
Ha, the daily mail is hardly a reliable source when it comes to this kind of shit.

Quitting anything that isn't psychically addicting is always going to be less dangerous than quitting something that is.. especially when the drug is something like alcohol or benzos that come with such severe withdrawal symptoms.

You're never going to convince anybody who has been through real withdrawals that quitting meth (other than a super intense psychlogical aspect, which nobody is denying) is even in the same ball park.

It's a ridiculous debate.
 
^QFT. I'm sure quitting meth blows I've had plenty of amp comedowns and hate them. But compared to spending 20 hours a day wide awake feeling like your going to have a heart attack? Apples and oranges.

Which specific drug are you referring to by, "spending 20 hours a day wide awake feeling like your going to have a heart attack"?
 
I really don't understand what exactly you are talking about. What's the daily mail?

While quitting alcohol may be way worse physically than trying to quit crystal meth, it's not as mentally and emotionally difficult. As I had stated before, the relapse rates for people that use crystal meth is even higher than for people that are addicted to alcohol. Crystal meth does way more damage to somebody's ability to feel happiness and pleasure from their dopamine levels, than what alcohol does. Although alcoholism is undoubtedly extremely difficult to quit, it's not as hard as quitting crystal meth is.

Sometimes the psychological symptoms for some addictions may be way worse than the physical addictions for them, because the first one makes it much harder to even quit or want to quit their addictions, which in the end mean the difference between still being an addict and somebody being free from their addictions.

The daily mail is the news source of that article you posted..

So now you're saying meth isn't more dangerous to quit it's only harder to quit? Well, that's something that is subjective and a totally different debate.
 
I really don't understand what exactly you are talking about. What's the daily mail?

While quitting alcohol may be way worse physically than trying to quit crystal meth, it's not as mentally and emotionally difficult. As I had stated before, the relapse rates for people that use crystal meth is even higher than for people that are addicted to alcohol. Crystal meth does way more damage to somebody's ability to feel happiness and pleasure from their dopamine levels, than what alcohol does. Although alcoholism is undoubtedly extremely difficult to quit, it's not as hard as quitting crystal meth is.

Sometimes the psychological symptoms for some addictions may be way worse than the physical addictions for them, because the first one makes it much harder to even quit or want to quit their addictions, which in the end mean the difference between still being an addict and somebody being free from their addictions.

Have you ever tried or had to quit ANY of the drugs that you are talking about??
 
Have you ever tried or had to quit ANY of the drugs that you are talking about??

No, I have not. Which is a very good thing. Doing drugs is a very dangerous and stupid behaviors to do, which is why I never have and I never will try out any sorts of drugs whatsoever.
 
No, I have not. Which is a very good thing. Doing drugs is a very dangerous and stupid behaviors to do, which is why I never have and I never will try out any sorts of drugs whatsoever.

Ah, ok, thanks for replying honestly. I was thinking you had not.

There seems to be very many misconceptions concerning drugs in your posts and arguments, perhaps stemming from government drug propaganda and from mass media. It would do you well to perhaps read up on some less biased information concerning drugs...at least you're on the right website for that :)
 
The daily mail is the news source of that article you posted..

So now you're saying meth isn't more dangerous to quit it's only harder to quit? Well, that's something that is subjective and a totally different debate.

I've heard of moderate drinking, or occasional drinking, but I've never heard of an "moderate" or an "occasional" meth user. Unless you're genetically predisposed to these sorts of things, somebody only becomes an alcoholic if they keep drinking large amounts of alcohol over some long periods of time. It's possible to drink alcohol in some safe ways that would not result in somebody becoming an alcoholic. Some, actually many, people that use alcohol, use it very moderately, without becoming negatively affected by it, either through addictions or intoxication.

It's literally impossible for somebody to use crystal meth without becoming intoxicated, and almost everybody who uses it gets addicted to it just about the first time that they try it.
 
Ah, ok, thanks for replying honestly. I was thinking you had not.

There seems to be very many misconceptions concerning drugs in your posts and arguments, perhaps stemming from government drug propaganda and from mass media. It would do you well to perhaps read up on some less biased information concerning drugs...at least you're on the right website for that :)

Well, I absolutely agree with you. Our society is filled with biases as well as hypocrisy towards drugs. Alcohol is viewed as socially acceptable and "cool", whereas marijuana, which is a way less dangerous drug than alcohol is, is stigmatized as "doing drugs".

But I don't really understand what you mean by "government drug propaganda". While the government certainly does throw out a lot of exaggerated anti marijuana propaganda, are you implying that the government also has a lot of pro-alcohol propaganda? How exactly is my information biased at all? My intentions is not to be biased.
 
i'm too lazy to go get the studies to back this up right now but the majority of people who try any drug do not become addicted to it. There's no way in hell alcohol should be illegal, prohibition caused so many issues that it is nonsensical to do something like that. However, heroin, crack, coke, methamp (why do people pick on methamp so much?) should be treated the same. Alcohol is far more addictive and dangerous than most drugs, methamphetamine might have it beat but it's not poisonous at least.

The majority of illicit drugs won't give you cancer either; yet alcohol and tobacco will. Most drugs also don't destroy your liver. OP your argument is not sound or thought out at all. You are sticking to the status quo so hard, maybe it makes you feel warm and safe but open your mind a bit.

you have no idea how many people use opiates/benzos/crack/methamp every day too, because they function on it just like an alcoholic would tho probably better. I functioned as a poly drug addict for long periods of time and not once did anyone ask me if i were on drugs or drunk.

this ignorant attitude kind of pisses me off, or really causes me rage but i don't think you'll ever see the light, neither will the majority of society and you will just keep making the same mistakes and never really understand the other side. I'll just take some etizolam and dexedrine and go study my ass off instead of wasting your/my time.

Well, that's totally false. Crystal meth causes some brain damage, and it's even more dangerous than alcohol is in those ways, because crystal meth can cause brain damage way faster than alcohol causes brain damage. Whereas alcohol may take some years before somebody gets brain damage, crystal meth users will get brain damage in sometimes 6 months of usage. Also, moderate drinking does not cause somebody to get brain damage, whereas any amount of crystal meth usage will give somebody brain damage.
 
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No, I have not. Which is a very good thing. Doing drugs is a very dangerous and stupid behaviors to do, which is why I never have and I never will try out any sorts of drugs whatsoever.

You just completely discredited yourself from talking about any of this in my eyes. You have no idea what you're talking about and it makes sense because you haven't actually done anything. You sound like anybody else who gets their information from a book or from articles or ill informed public propaganda.

How things work in practice and in reality is much different than in how the laymen in society view things.

Would I, knowing nothing about investment banking, go into JP Morgan and start telling them how to do their jobs? No.

It's the same thing. Preaching about something you don't know anything about to people who actually do is just foolish.
 
^ amen, brother. it's like a virgin writing about sex, getting all his information from porn.
 
I've heard of moderate drinking, or occasional drinking, but I've never heard of an "moderate" or an "occasional" meth user.

You may want to look up the active ingredient in the prescription ADHD medication Desoxyn. I think I've mentioned that before. *headdesk*
 
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