Alcohol Alcohol Megathread

[Scrofula]

if you do an inpatient detox most are't gonna let you be on benzos and subs and detox from alcohol.

They may still give you low doses of each but fuck man in my opinion the benzos are gonna be your real problem unless you're just deciding to be on them for life.

And you aren't really creating a problem by having xanaxes when you're already taking them.

But really the alcohol is the least of your worries in my opinion.

If you are one of those who wont get arrested on a bunch of xanaxes I'd just eat a bunch of xanaxes and quit drinking

They won't change your meds, except for the gabaergic ones, since that's what you're in there for; they will take issue with opioids though.

Maybe not everyone realizes that benzos are basically cleaner booze in pill form? You can substitute benzos for booze, almost perfectly for the seizure and anxiety aspects, because they have the same target in the brain. A fifth-a-day habit, 750ml of liquor, equates to 8 bars of Xanax in just the GABA effects.

(Yes, here's where I calculated that)

How many people think a person with a 15mg/day Xanax dependence can go CT at home by themselves? And if you were taking benzos with your booze, throw those on top of the pile.

(That's just the seizure aspects, the other withdrawal symptoms are like those of opioids: they involve the same opioid receptors, and naltrexone works to prevent relapse in alcoholics. But people don't even bother treating the central opioid WD associated with booze withdrawal. Give me time and I'll figure out the equivalent suboxone dose.)

OP has a supporting family and because we've been getting on his case, hopefully an even more determined and detailed plan, but don't dismiss his dilemma like he's quitting chocolate for lent.

 

[Scrofula]

Can someone PLEASE address my question about my Wellbutrin (150mg XL, 1x daily).

I thought Wellbutrin LOWERS seizure thresholds, which is obviously the exact opposite of what I want...

Yes, it absolutely makes your risk of seizures worse. But we're not your psychiatrist, and don't know why you take it, and what would happen if you stopped. That's another reason why people go to doctors for this. You might need anti-depressant substitute while you attempt this. I wouldn't want to take bupropion during or after this.

I am NOT DOING THIS COLD TURKEY
Intention: instead of 48-60hrs - now the 1.75L of gin needs to last 72. Then 84-96, etc.
Easier said than done, I know.

I will be detoxing at a friends apartment (I live alone). She is an RN, another sister is an RN, and her brother is a Nurse Anethesetist (sp?). One of them will be there 24/7, for as long as this may take. My friend's mom is a NPR, so if things get fuckin shady she already said she will write an Rx.

You aren't detoxing at all if you do that.

You're just cutting back. And at your use, good luck. I don't mean to be esp. harsh, I am not a grizzled AA old-timer, just been down that road before, a couple hundred times.

YOUR GOAL IS TO QUIT ALCOHOL. FOREVER.
That is a difficult thing to do

I asked for advice because I TRULY did NOT know how bad my drinking habit was - I knew it was really bad - but not, "we strongly recommend you go to the hospital," was NOT the response that I expected from a vast majority of you.

Well, now you have an idea how bad your habit is--unsustainable and medically dangerous. It's not our fault, you asked and we answered.

I've consumed 6oz of gin today.
3mg ER of Xanax
1mg of Klonopin
2mg of Ativan.
I feel normal.

That recipe, mixing and matching on your seizure receptors, is why you can't cocktail up your own treatment. You've already ratcheted up the benzos and seen no decrease in alcohol.

I know that alcohol withdrawal takes longer to set in (24-48hrs), but I'm just trying to keep everyone in the loop...

They can begin in six hours, building to a peak 48 - 72hrs after the last drink. Except you haven't taken a last drink and don't plan to. You aren't going to get a full syndrome.

Look, it's your life, and if you want to keep drinking and using benzos, that's up to you. But when you speak of "detox" and "quitting" we're going to believe that's what you actually want, and we're going to give you the advice you need for doing that.

What you've planned now is just another weekend with your relatives. Your habit will continue, through ebbs and lows, and substitutions, till your health forces a choice.

Good luck, try not to annoy your family too much during this. You will need them in the future.

 

[Trabbamab]

Thankfully the barbiturates and four separate benzos (plus fent) were OP's previous habit, trabamab.

Ohhh wow, okay. I totally misread that then. I thought that the OP was saying that was what he was on NOW and the second list was what he had to detox down to. I was wondering why people were not in a complete panic over that.

But to the OP, I would say your plan sounds good. Just be sure that your friends have a good expectation of generally how things may go. Like you may be crabby and sometimes may not feel like talking and that doesn't mean you are mad at them, etc. Not all nurses have worked directly with someone detoxing before.

 

[TrickyNicky]

Some things have changed since I last posted...

I'm going to go to detox. School will have to be put on furlough.
My family is going to have to "deal" with the mess I've made.


I went 8hrs without a drink, or a benzo, and my hands were shaking so bad I could barely recognize my own hand writing.

Shit, I thought quitting dope/fent was easy. It isn't - you will feel like you're going to die, but with Alc W/D I very well may could die.


​In regard to staying on Benzos for the rest of my life
Cannot say I'm opposed to it.

The Subutex? I've been wanting to get off this shit for awhile...
So if they drastically decrease it in detox - so be it.

I used to have to take 600mg of oxycodone 3x a day just to feel normal. Not to mention all the fent/dope/etc.

I don't fear a Bupe wd in the slightest.


Thanks for everyones input,
Nick

 

[Scrofula]

Hey nick, sorry your first plans didn't work out. Sadly, they never do, for anyone.

I am still wishing you success in whatever plans you make. Please give updates on your progress.

 

[BurritoJimmy]

People have been tapering off of alcohol with alcohol since the beginning of human history. While it's easy to throw your hands up in the air and say go to rehab that isn't really helpful in the long run because more than likely he will relapse and have skills on how to reduce alcohol on his own. 17 beers as a starting point is based upon his normal consumption of 17 standard drinks a day. Reducing by half a beer a day would not throw him into dangerous wds and his life wouldnt have been uprooted. It's not rocket surgery although you'd think it was based on the responses here.

 

[BurritoJimmy]

BTW good luck to OP, my response was directed at the other poster that doesnt know about how to taper alcohol

 

[Scrofula]

Jimmy, I went over the problems with this already. It is possible to taper off alcohol, it just takes years of attempts to pull it off.

What you and so many others keep leaving out is his polydrug status. He cannot continue to mix alcohol and benzodiazepines, and tapers and cold turkeys (and doing nothing at all) remain incredibly dangerous.

 

[Robvious]

The fact that you took the time to write your original post and subsequent responses should have told yourself that you knew the answer to your question before you even clicked the "post" button... You needed help, that's why you came here and asked all the *experts*. You were clearly concerned enough about your life, I'm hoping you decided to act on it and got the help you deserved.

 

[wallywogs]

Like most have said try and get help. I detoxed a couple of times and it was really bad. After the first time at least I knew to (I was single) just isolate my self for 3 or 4 days minimum., like no contact with anyone except by phone. I would get stuff like gatorade and ensure, make sure all the windows were as dark as possible and just watch TV and stay in bed. I wasnt on any drugs and was young and it fucked me up. I have been sober for 28 years now. I do smoke pot. Anyway let us know how it goes whatever your decision

 

[aihfl]

It is possible to taper off alcohol, it just takes years of attempts to pull it off.

And even if you do have years of experience tapering off alcohol, it is far from guaranteed that you will be successful every time and I speak from experience on the subject. Alcohol plus benzos? Now that's just asking for seizures without medical intervention.

 

[Tombs]

And even if you do have years of experience tapering off alcohol, it is far from guaranteed that you will be successful every time and I speak from experience on the subject. Alcohol plus benzos? Now that's just asking for seizures without medical intervention.

Just my two cents because the pain is still fresh in my memory.

I've mentioned in damn near every post, I love heroin. I love downers in general and after I quit H, I started drinking like a fish.

I went to prison, got out and on parole I couldn't get high... I wasn't planning on it anyway. I started drinking again. Got to almost 1.75L of Sobieski every fucking night. I was always amazed how there was only enough to make a drink or two at the bottom of the bottle every morning I woke up. I think the only way I made it through work was a built up BAC that kept the shakes off until I got back home.

Before I quit for good, in that 5 years, I had genuinely attempted to stop at least a dozen times. Sometimes it'd last a few days, one time I made it 3 months. There's just something about that first drink that takes you off the rails immediately. It's different than other drugs for me. I pass by people yelling ROCKS BLOWS at my face everyday, so it isn't the availability of alcohol. I can never stop after drink #1 and after drink 1 it's like I never quit.

Alcohol is the most difficult drug I have ever quit. Ever. The physical withdrawals don't even touch opiates, which are hell in their own way. Not to mention that you can actually die from the wds. I knew this and out of shame I still went through it at home. I'm still conflicted regarding whether I should have gone to detox or not. On one hand, the memory of the withdrawals makes me sick to my stomach the second I think about drinking. The pain has contributed to my abstinence. On the other hand, it wasn't safe and I could have killed myself. Had I had a seizure, the damage could have been fatal or irreversible by the time an ambulance would make it out to my trap ass neighborhood. I've seen people shot on my block and it took 20 minutes for an ambulance to make it out, the victim was loooong gone by then. Not even twitching anymore.

I can imagine if there is a hell - this is pretty fuckin' close. I don't think I ate a full meal for 3 months after quitting. My nerves were shot - as in every little bit of stimuli caused an adrenaline response, immediately making me shake, sweat and nauseated - can't even tell you how long this lasted, maybe 3 months. My liver hurt like hell for about a year - sharp, knifey pains below my right ribs and in my back especially after eating a fatty meal.

The crazy thing is I had no intention of quitting at this time. My body just physically wouldn't accept alcohol anymore. The first morning I kept trying to get some liquor down to stop the withdrawals but no luck, the minute it touched my stomach it came back up again. I kept trying and trying until I gave up and accepted that this could be my only opportunity to never go back and so far so good. Haven't gotten drunk since 2015.

Nicky, I hope you made it out. I really hope to see a post from you in the future letting us know how detox went. There is a reason so many strangers are reaching out to you - we feel your pain. We empathize and want to give you a hand to lift you out of your hell.

 

[aihfl]

Got to almost 1.75L of Sobieski every fucking night.

You're lucky dude. I was in my first medical detox with a guy who drank a handle of vodka a day. He seemed ok but ended up having a seizure and dying of cardiac arrest in full view of all the rest of us.

 

[Scrofula]

Oh, give it time, you'll learn how to get liquor into you despite the vapor alone making you dry heave till you detach a retina.

Now, I know you've scouted out secluded areas on this walk before--you've made it a hundred times, at all hours, even 2am-6am--preferably a divot behind a bush and importantly with back support, concrete is good, but best if you can just lean a little and be over a less splashy surface.

It's Ok to need three jumps to get to, since you'll need the immediate sit-down once you leave the store, don't forget a half-roll of paper towels for the sweat. One you've recovered, get to your spot, collapse, and then start the tiny tiny sips. Like, just moistening your lips tiny. You will retch, it's easier to just accept that as fact and surrender to the first one. You will double over, frozen and unbreathing, a minute-long whole-body contraction; but the longer you space them, the more buccal and gastric absorption will occur. This has taken two hours so far. The sips will get bigger, and eventually you'll hit it, the rush will kick in, and you can start walking.

Sadly, you'll take a few glugs then, and having not eaten in like a week, or had any water, you won't finish your pint, you never make it back to base. Instead you wake up in restraints again in Highland Hospital. But, get some sleep, they'll cut you loose at like 3am, hopefully with the same pants you were wearing going in. There's a store at the bottom of the hill to your right, right by the overpass.

You can do that for years.

 

[Tombs]

You're lucky dude. I was in my first medical detox with a guy who drank a handle of vodka a day. He seemed ok but ended up having a seizure and dying of cardiac arrest in full view of all the rest of us.

First off, I'm sorry you had to watch that.

I am most definitely very lucky.

If I believed in a God, I would thank them everyday for freeing me from that brutal waking nightmare of a life. I literally cannot imagine hell could be any worse than that. I think I'd rather be burned alive.

For perspective: I've been shot (in the legs and shoulder) and the recovery was a cakewalk in comparison. I've spent over 4 months in solitary confinement and I would rather do that while standing on my hands.

I will never touch a drink again as long as I live. I'm sure of it. It scares the living shit out of me.

 

[regardless]

I have been drinking over 16 shots of liquor for more than two weeks I believe and am trying to taper off after bad blackouts falling down and pressure from family members who have never drank and think it is the devil. At the time of writing, I have been awake for over 48 hours - while drinking somewhat moderately - and have not been able to sleep. I have also been experiencing severe withdrawal symptoms. Given the situation, I don't want to get medical attention. I have tapered successfully in the past many times but this may be my worst binge yet. These family members do not believe in tapering and have made threats to have me submitted to a hospital during bouts of withdrawal. Given the holiday this week, and having to face family members who have called the police on me for drinking before and want me to quit, I'm looking for advice on some sort of taper schedule. It is also very important to note that they do not know that I have been drinking the past few days and I have to hide(!!!) my drinking from them. I would like advice on the situation and how many drinks I should take each day to actually taper off of it. I am a 26 year old male who weighs 185 pounds. I would like to be done by Friday as I have a trip. Thanks for the help.

 

[emkee_reinvented]

Thanks for the warning about addiction creeping up at that dosage. Should serve as a warning not to take Alcohol lightly, I say this while drinking 12% proof beer.

Regardless, my personal view on hiding things, especially for people close, I would hate the feel more the coming clean but taking the rough edges off. But your situation could require it.

Any other options available to you?
How would you hide the ethanol fume spreading from you mouth. Please explain how that's possible.

 

[aihfl]

Here is the best resource I've found to date on tapering:

http://hams.cc/taper

The insomnia is part of the withdrawal. I was up once for 80 hours continuously. If you drink enough to put you out, you're likely going to be right back at square one. You shouldn't be alone, either, because alcohol WD can have life-threatening complications and someone should be around to take you to the hospital or call an ambulance if you have a seizure. If you have a way to monitor your blood pressure and heart rate, you should, because high blood pressure and tachycardia are part of withdrawals. If your blood pressure exceeds 150/100 or your heart rate is >100, you need to be medically monitored. I don't know how you're going to hide your drinking from your family - you're going to stink of it and I don't just mean having it on your breath either. But the flip side is that going cold turkey is flat-out dangerous. Good luck.

 

[BurritoJimmy]

I've tapered using the hams protocol referenced above. At 16 drinks a day you start with 16 lite beers for the 1st day spread out evenly through your waking hours then go down from there. I went down 2 beers a day until i was at zero and started at 16. As you move down in beers the time between beers must also increase. You cant have them all at once. I successfully tapered doing this and was able to sleep but it may be much more comfortable using librium or another long acting benzo.

 

[emkee_reinvented]

A unit of Alcohol could mean anything from 8 grams per consumption in the UK. To 10 grams in AU, 14 in the USA and Japan nearly 20.

So what is a shot? In the US a beercan 12 0z, roughly350 ml, of 5% is a unit like a 1.5 oz. shot of 40%. For determining anything based on facts this would be a neccesatity.
My own country is lower on the unit as the US, a unit is the equivalent of 250ml/ about 8.5 oz. 5% beers.

But can you get a physical addiction from something equalling 16 standard beercans? If you use US measurement as starting point. YMMV, def get help if you can't on your own.


To add to what BuritoJimmy wrote. Campral/ Acamprosate according to a dr I knew lessens cravings and helps overal. No experience with it myself though.